Providing for Women

[The Duke]

In my line of work, I am often an approached by females looking for commercial buildings to run a business(nail salon, clothing boutique, etc). There is always extensive remodeling(wiring, plumbing, walls, flooring, painting) that needs to be done to suit the individuals business type. It NEVER fails, this is where the female leans on the husband. Many times I've been standing right there with the husband and wife and the woman always looks towards her husband when these topics come up. You can see the stress/anxiety coming over her. And the guy is always like "just what I wanted to do, more schitt I have to get involved in".

Few of these women will actually try to handle the remodel side. Those that do get stressed out and end up turning it over to their husband.

I'm always left wondering, what does that man get out of all this? A woman that keeps her body fine, doesn't act out, and provides enthusiastic sex when he wants? lol, yeah right. I certainly don't see any of that.

All of this commitment to provide for the female just to keep her long term, is it really worth it?

As I've gotten older, I have quit fixing girlfriends' vehicles if it was anything that would require more than 2hrs of my time. If their level of cooking was equal to my level of automotive skills then I might consider.

I just don't see much fairness in male/female long term relationships and marriages. I see women getting better deals than most men.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

In short: Don't be her employee.

 

[Kotaix]

What I don't get is why husbands allow this kind of expenditure to happen in the first place. Most of these endeavors are a complete waste of money and will be out of business within 3-4 years.

 

[BeExcellent]

Having done a ton of remodeling myself I agree with @The Duke. But I also know women who will roll up their sleeves and work. I am one of those women.

Nobody does plaster or drywall repair better than me for example. I'm also good at taping, floating & painting & used to do all my tile installs and granite installs, including using a grinder and a large wet saw. I've planned & built drystsck retaining walls, installed landscaping (relocated full size trees) and so forth.

I've stained & poly'd many wood floors, I've done roofing & flashing repairs. I've floated walls & hung wall paper.

My first husband did always end up sanding or buffing the wood floors. Those huge sanding machines were too big for me to handle safely at 115 lbs. Ditto pneumatic jack hammers on the few occasions where those were needed. Those weigh 60+ lbs. I was too little to operate those safely.

While very pregnant with my son I took a large sledge hammer and busted up a 1930's concrete and metal lathe tile set floor. It was 4 inches thick. We needed to reconfigure a bathroom before the baby was born and needed access to the tight crawl space from inside the house to redo the plumbing, wiring & fixtures.

Good times.

My first husband never complained and he knew I was willing to work my butt off.

I've also taken down mature trees with a chainsaw all by myself. Like 12 feet up a big tree sawing it at the first major biforcation after taking down the major branches.

And once we got a bit better off I'd hire the subs, figure out the design/build and serve as GC/project manager. Once the guys working for me realized I knew what I was talking about and that I was going to work alongside them at times, the respect level went way up.

Nothing quite like working off frustrations with the exertion of manual labor.

But plenty of women bat their eyes and expect the husband to be the beast of burden. I always thought that unfair.

 

[Michael Chief]

A relationship or marriage is a failure as soon as either party starts seeing it as a transactional "deal"

 

[SW15]

I just don't see much fairness in male/female long term relationships and marriages. I see women getting better deals than most men.

I agree. This is what I see as well.

As I've gotten older, I have quit fixing girlfriends' vehicles if it was anything that would require more than 2hrs of my time. If their level of cooking was equal to my level of automotive skills then I might consider.

I know a guy with solid automotive skills (non-mechanic) and a solid notch count who has come to the same conclusion. He has struggled with the concept of fixing girlfriends' cars. He has the automotive skills to do it but has gotten frustrated with certain women he's dated and their approach to automotive maintenance.

plenty of women bat their eyes and expect the husband to be the beast of burden. I always thought that unfair.

Most married men are beta males who are plow horses for their wives. This is true of both white collar and blue collar men. These provider males become engrossed in being provider males and lose their own identities and hobbies.

I am a recreational tennis player, as I have played in both amateur leagues and friendly matches with men of a similar skill level. I've lost a number of recreational tennis playing partners due to men becoming the white collar beast of burden for their wives. These men are poor at setting boundaries. This typically gets worse when men become new fathers, as these types of tennis players tend to disappear.

In league play, I've rarely seen married men with younger children. There are some men with children over 8 or so, but men with younger children disappear from leagues.

A relationship or marriage is a failure as soon as either party starts seeing it as a transactional "deal"

Rollo has often said that men cannot negotiate genuine desire.

A lot of longer term relationships and marriages are transactional interactions.

 

[Manure Spherian]

white collar beast of burden for their wives. These men are poor at setting boundaries. This typically gets worse when men become new fathers, as these types of tennis players tend to disappear.

I bet the boundaries part. Care to explain how a man attending work while he has a wife and baby at home is being a beast of burden? When my kids were one to three years old, my wife worked very little. My work hours remained the same. I also continued with lifting and other physical activity.

Hobbies might take a back seat or have less time dedicated. Do you see this as bad considering the seriousness of and energy and resources and planning that goes into raising children?

 

[Manure Spherian]

I just don't see much fairness in male/female long term relationships and marriages

This is why I don’t understand why men have “girlfriends” and “LTR’s” at all. Marriage, yes, I understand, and I am in one. My wife bends over backwards for our children, homeschools them, decorates, cooks, gardens, and handles tools and fixes things (she learned much from her carpenter father who initially was an architect). My in-laws are very loving, hospitable people who have helped us and the kids immensely.

This leads me to where a problem lies: many men do not assess practical matters. They mismate because of the initial sex and fuzzy wuzzy feelings they get from women and the social clout they get from being with them. They do not assess other characteristics or lack thereof, assess potential in-laws, mental health, life history, and so on.

That’s why romantic love, “energy,” and “connection” is a bunch of bullsh-t.

 

[SW15]

Care to explain how a man attending work while he has a wife and baby at home is being a beast of burden?

Attending work itself is more of a good thing than a bad thing, unless the father is a workaholic who works excessive hours.

Few wives are actually at home. Most wives return to the work force within 3 months of birth.

Most men I know that are fathers live to work and their whole lives revolve around work and parenting stuff. These are plow horses who lose their own identities working their jobs (often a white collar one where their employer can lay them off at any time without a care) and as parents. Their sex frequency also decreases. They see less of their male friends, especially their childless male friends. Married men will be friends with other married men with children with similar ages. It's a mundane, dreary existence.

Hobbies might take a back seat or have less time dedicated. Do you see this as bad considering the seriousness of and energy and resources and planning that goes into raising children?

It isn't bad for the collective of a culture. It might be bad for the individual married male as described above.

When married men with young children lose themselves and their hobbies, it is bad for me personally and my social life. My network of tennis players has diminished significantly in part due to this. I'm leaning more into swimming and cycling lately as they are more independent activities. I still also weight lift in a gym, which is independent as well. As a tennis player, I preferred the recreational matches with my male friends of similar tennis skill levels as compared to league play against strangers that would not be my longer term friends and tennis partners. Tennis isn't just about the game itself when played as a hobby. There's a certain value in it building camaraderie and a relationship with a friend. The same thing can be said for a lot of hobbies.

many men do not assess practical matters. They mismate because of the initial sex and fuzzy wuzzy feelings they get from women and the social clout they get from being with them. They do not assess other characteristics or lack thereof, assess potential in-laws, mental health, life history, and so on.

That’s why romantic love, “energy,” and “connection” is a bunch of bullsh-t.

I generally agree with this. I don't have a desire to marry at this point.

A good portion of men are in relationships for the sex and the social clout.

 

[Manure Spherian]

It's a mundane, dreary existence.

What if they like it and it’s not dreary or mundane for them?

How do you know these men have no joy in their lives?

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

What if they like it and it’s not dreary or mundane for them?

How do you know these men have no joy in their lives?

Indeed. I was a stay-at-home dad and I enjoyed myself tremendously. Of course, I was also writing books, giving courses on Pre-Conflict Control, and I enjoyed raising my children.

I don't think someone who isn't a father could determine the quality of that 'existence'.

 

[Manure Spherian]

Indeed. I was a stay-at-home dad and I enjoyed myself tremendously. Of course, I was also writing books, giving courses on Pre-Conflict Control, and I enjoyed raising my children.

I don't think someone who isn't a father could determine the quality of that 'existence'.

Yes. This whole notion that some guy who is bogged down with obligations is a chump is a cope of a sort, I believe.

Life is not one leisurely activity or buzz after another. And some guy who might have to attend or tend to his children’s school play, religious education, sports, or homeschooling event over tennis isn’t inherently some sort of chump.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

And some guy who might have to attend or tend to his children’s school play, religious education, sports, or homeschooling event over tennis isn’t inherently some sort of chump.

I know parents who feel parenting is a burden, but most parents I know, especially the 'stay-at-home' parents, enjoy being a benevolent presence and positive influence in their children's lives.

 

[Manure Spherian]

I know parents who feel parenting is a burden, but most parents I know, especially the 'stay-at-home' parents, enjoy being a benevolent presence and positive influence in their children's lives.

Right. Me personally, I had a seriously negligent father. So even if I catch myself complaining silently, in my own head, from responsibilities, I will feel slightly guilty.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

Right. Me personally, I had a seriously negligent father. So even if I catch myself complaining silently, in my own head, from responsibilities, I will feel slightly guilty.

Bad parents don't feel guilty, so you're probably doing all right.

I had abusive parents who showed me how NOT to be a parent. I'm grateful I could find a different course and be a safe haven for my children while at the same time teaching them how to be independent in this world. It takes hard work, but to me is more gratifying than any 'career' could've been.

 

[The Duke]

This is why I don’t understand why men have “girlfriends” and “LTR’s” at all. Marriage, yes, I understand, and I am in one. My wife bends over backwards for our children, homeschools them, decorates, cooks, gardens, and handles tools and fixes things (she learned much from her carpenter father who initially was an architect). My in-laws are very loving, hospitable people who have helped us and the kids immensely.

This leads me to where a problem lies: many men do not assess practical matters. They mismate because of the initial sex and fuzzy wuzzy feelings they get from women and the social clout they get from being with them. They do not assess other characteristics or lack thereof, assess potential in-laws, mental health, life history, and so on.

That’s why romantic love, “energy,” and “connection” is a bunch of bullsh-t.

This is why I don’t understand why men have “girlfriends” and “LTR’s” at all. Marriage, yes, I understand, and I am in one. My wife bends over backwards for our children, homeschools them, decorates, cooks, gardens, and handles tools and fixes things (she learned much from her carpenter father who initially was an architect). My in-laws are very loving, hospitable people who have helped us and the kids immensely.

This leads me to where a problem lies: many men do not assess practical matters. They mismate because of the initial sex and fuzzy wuzzy feelings they get from women and the social clout they get from being with them. They do not assess other characteristics or lack thereof, assess potential in-laws, mental health, life history, and so on.

That’s why romantic love, “energy,” and “connection” is a bunch of bullsh-t.

A while back you stated that you couldn't understand why a man would want a LTR or gf. I totally get where you are coming from now. Makes a lot of sense for a guy that wants a family.

 

[Barrister]

This is why I don’t understand why men have “girlfriends” and “LTR’s” at all. Marriage, yes, I understand, and I am in one. My wife bends over backwards for our children, homeschools them, decorates, cooks, gardens, and handles tools and fixes things (she learned much from her carpenter father who initially was an architect). My in-laws are very loving, hospitable people who have helped us and the kids immensely.

This leads me to where a problem lies: many men do not assess practical matters. They mismate because of the initial sex and fuzzy wuzzy feelings they get from women and the social clout they get from being with them. They do not assess other characteristics or lack thereof, assess potential in-laws, mental health, life history, and so on.

That’s why romantic love, “energy,” and “connection” is a bunch of bullsh-t.

Re: the bolded; not so much it is bullsh1t. It exists, albeit with a short life-span. Women's affection has an end point when it comes to her romantic partners (not with her children, but that is not another story). It is just a matter of where that endpoint lies.

Most women's affection will diminish with each major commitment a man makes to her. Moving in together is the first step of diminishing return for the man. Putting a ring on her finger is the second. And having children is essentially the final nail in the coffin. You then have a background affection slider that continually decreases as time goes on. All of this can essentially be measured in how much sex the man is receiving. As time goes on, the affection/sex becomes less intensive and less frequent despite the man wanting it. Those three commitments will expedite the process tremendously so.

@The Duke is right. A man is probably best served to simply have a bunch of 2-3 year LTRs then exit once it begins to show age. I do, however, agree with you that marriage DOES have a place if the man wants children. Unfortunately, he will be losing out on his wife's affection fairly quickly after said children enter the home space.

 

[The Duke]

I grew up in a house where my dad worked a lot and had a career that put him in the public eye.

My mom cooked, cleaned, and raised us kids. She worked part time occasionally over the years as a nurse. My mom's focus was on her family always.

My dad left the household chores up to my mom and us kids.

They didn't have the most romantic relationship but they had a solid partnership that produced a lot of wealth and two solid kids.

Never was there a concern of divorce. They always say down and figured things out.

My dad had lots of women after him because of his career as well as his looks/personality. I don't think he ever cheated. My mom certainly didnt. She never got insecure about it either .

We were about as Brady Bunch as it got.

My upbringing has greatly influenced my thoughts regarding women and what they offer. Most don't even come close to what my mom did. She makes fun of modern women all the time.

They are all great in the beginning. Once I move them in with me the down hill trend starts. Usually make it to the 4yr mark and then the relationship is on borrowed time. And the cycle starts over.

 

[Barrister]

I grew up in a house where my dad worked a lot and had a career that put him in the public eye.

My mom cooked, cleaned, and raised us kids. She worked part time occasionally over the years as a nurse. My mom's focus was on her family always.

My dad left the household chores up to my mom and us kids.

They didn't have the most romantic relationship but they had a solid partnership that produced a lot of wealth and two solid kids.

Never was there a concern of divorce. They always say down and figured things out.

My dad had lots of women after him because of his career as well as his looks/personality. I don't think he ever cheated. My mom certainly didnt. She never got insecure about it either .

We were about as Brady Bunch as it got.

My upbringing has greatly influenced my thoughts regarding women and what they offer. Most don't even come close to what my mom did. She makes fun of modern women all the time.

They are all great in the beginning. Once I move them in with me the down hill trend starts. Usually make it to the 4yr mark and then the relationship is on borrowed time. And the cycle starts over.

Women (and men) aren't raised like this anymore. My mother and father are also as you describe and are still together. There was a working relationship on top of the romantic one. These days, most women are highly self-centered and think the man should just be bending over backwards to make her life a cakewalk. And most men (not here at SS of course) are blue-pilled and thirsty enough to do everything they can to oblige. What we saw in childhood doesn't really exist too much anymore - unfortunately.

 

[Manure Spherian]

Most women's affection will diminish with each major commitment a man makes to her. Moving in together is the first step of diminishing return for the man. Putting a ring on her finger is the second. And having children is essentially the final nail in the coffin. You then have a background affection slider that continually decreases as time goes on. All of this can essentially be measured in how much sex the man is receiving. As time goes on, the affection/sex becomes less intensive and less frequent despite the man wanting it. Those three commitments will expedite the process tremendously so.

More attention and love are given to children. That’s life . I don’t see what the problem is. That doesn’t mean that romance dies or sex goes away for people who don’t want that to happen.

Maybe I’m different. I don’t need female validation and attention all freaking day, everyday. And much of my focus is on raising well-adjusted, competent children.