Pre-emptive "breakup"/Verbal nexting too harsh?

[ketostix]

Here's the abbreviated backstory. I had hooked up with this girl a few times. Each time I went out with her she acted right, ie, didn't accept advance from other guys at the bar etc. Now, the last time I made plans to meet up, she acted different. She spent must of the time talking to a group of guys. So I would go off and when I'd come back she'd say things like, "You were gone awhile", "I thought you left". But she didn't get the message because she continued to hang with these guys.

Anyway, the guys finally a little before last call tell her they're leaving and they leave. Shortly after she wouldn't comply with my suggestion to leave together (she always eagerly had before) was kind of giving me a cold shoulder and being slightly disrespectful in general. Instead of leaviung with me she says, "I'm going to call this guy and see if he's partying. Then she takes off and basically ditches me. That did it for me. So I shoot her a text, "I'm not making plans with you again. That's bull****."

I kept my word and never called her again for almost 2 weeks till I saw her at the bar last night. She comes up to me and tells me, "Why did you get mad at me? No guy has said that to me before. You really hurt me.." Basically she's trying to flip the script and put the blame on me when she was the one acting shady.

What do you guys think? Is it really too harsh to call a girl on her BS and tell her you are through with her? I was truely done with her after that night so why would I let her ditch me and say nothing letting her think I was just going to take it any crap she dishes out?

 

[Warrior74]

The text was lame, but at least you did notice she tried to flip the script on you. The best thing to do is act like you don't care. and if you really don't care you don't give verbal lashings. When you seem then you treat them like an aquantince and move on quickly. You give them nothing to hang on you at all. You make it a question in their mind forever. You don't give them the satisfaction of knowing your are mad, or sad, or even glad. Because you don't care about her.

Like someone said on here:
The opposite of love is indifference.

 

[ketostix]

The text was lame, but at least you did notice she tried to flip the script on you. The best thing to do is act like you don't care. and if you really don't care you don't give verbal lashings. When you seem then you treat them like an aquantince and move on quickly. You give them nothing to hang on you at all. You make it a question in their mind forever. You don't give them the satisfaction of knowing your are mad, or sad, or even glad. Because you don't care about her.

Like someone said on here:
The opposite of love is indifference.

I see what you are saying and that's the standard view, but had I not done what I did she would've thought I was a chump. I mean really if a guy disrespects you do you just stay passive and not call it out and wait for weeks to past by before they maybe get the vague message? If I truely am done with a girl and I don't care, why should I treat a dis from a female any different than a dis from a guy? That doesn't sound like a very manly way to go about life. When I saw her last night I did act totally indifferent, because I am indifferent after the point I told her I was done with her.

 

[STR8UP]

I see what you are saying and that's the standard view, but had I not done what I did she would've thought I was a chump.

It's just the opposite. She thought you were a chump since you got riled up. Chances are, in HER mind she wasn't even doing anything wrong. Even if she was conscious of the fact that she was disrespecting you, women can rationalize anything. She didn't care enough for you to show you respect that night, so your words bounced off her like bullets bouncing off Superman.

I mean really if a guy disrespects you do you just stay passive and not call it out and wait for weeks to past by before they maybe get the vague message?

If a guy disrespects me I do the same thing. I don't give them any more of my time.

If I truely am done with a girl and I don't care, why should I treat a dis from a female any different than a dis from a guy? That doesn't sound like a very manly way to go about life.

Keto, keto, keto.....you're falling into that "I gotta get the last word in" crap. You DON'T have to get ANY last word in. Every single time I TRIED to get the last word in, it blew up in my face. At minimum I felt like I just handed her a piece of my dignity.

Now since I have become CONSCIOUS of these kinds of things, there have been a couple of times where I kept my mouth shut, as tempted as I was to say something, and WALKED AWAY. Each and every time, 100% without fail, this was the better course of action. I felt like I still had my dignity intact, and the woman still had respect for me, for whatever that is worth.

The chick I was seeing for a few months awhile back that basically swung branches after her high school reunion....PRIME example.

She sends me an email telling me she found someone else (I knew by her actions weeks before that), and that if I wanted to "talk about it" to give her a call. She also said she was still planning on attending my party that weekend, if it was ok with me.

I responded "Congratulations, hope it works out for you. See you Saturday". And that was that.

It fukking SUCKED holding my tongue, cause at minimum I felt the email was a chicken sh!t thing to do and she should have told me to my face.

But you know what? I feigned the indifference card (truth is it really DID get to me) and looking back on it I am SOOOO glad I did.

Incidentally, this chick came back into town right before she was about to get married, I thought it was to close the sale of her house, but unbeknownst to me, I was attending her bachelorette party that night. She walked up to me that night and said "You must really hate me about now", to which I smiled and said "Now why would you think such a thing?"

We ended up back at my buddy's house laying on his bed. She was smoking weed with everyone else and ends up laying next to me with her head on my shoulder. I probably could have fukked her one last time, but remained true to my indifference, I got up after about 20 minutes, told everyone to have fun, and left.

If I had gone off on her it would have done nothing but shown her my weakness toward her, and I would have felt good for ten minutes and then walked around for months feeling like she got the best of me.

Just by you posting this it shows that it got to you, and I think you realize that you and your feelings don't mean sh!t to her. I would bet a hundred bucks that had you simply WALKED AWAY, she would have been calling you (which you would have ignored) and you would now have a greater sense of satisfaction about the whole thing.

The text was lame, but at least you did notice she tried to flip the script on you.

The text could have been worse. At least it wasn't overly emotional.

You give them nothing to hang on you at all. You make it a question in their mind forever. You don't give them the satisfaction of knowing your are mad, or sad, or even glad. Because you don't care about her.

This is GOLD.

A woman's worst enemy isn't YOU or the meaningless words that come out of your mouth, it is her own imagination. Withdrawing attention is the best way to "call a chick out" for just about anything. When I finally did that with my ex g/f she turned into an emotional WRECK. As soon as she saw her sh!t sitting in a box on her porch and knew i was serious about leaving her she lost it. I'm talking worse AFC EVER. Like 50 phone calls in one night up till 5am. I'm talking drive 1/2 hour to sit in front of my door cause I wouldn't let her in kind of sh!t.

Then what did I do? I decided i wanted some more of that luscious pu$$y, and started fukking her again, which gave her the perfect opportunity to find another branch while she still "had" me, and as soon as she did she totally flipped the script and all of the sudden I was the biggest ass hole ever to walk the earth.

Cutting all ties is the ONLY way to break it off with women after they disrespect you. You retain your dignity, and she gets to wallow in the pool of sh!t she created.

Like someone said on here:
The opposite of love is indifference.

Amen brother, amen.

 

[ketostix]

It's just the opposite. She thought you were a chump since you got riled up. Chances are, in HER mind she wasn't even doing anything wrong. Even if she was conscious of the fact that she was disrespecting you, women can rationalize anything. She didn't care enough for you to show you respect that night, so your words bounced off her like bullets bouncing off Superman.

I agree women rationalize everything. But she really did take an ego hit. It was obvious almost 2-weeks later last night when she came up to me. I think the fact that I simply asserted I was done with her without trying to discuss anything and then followed through with it over time that gave her ego a hit.

If a guy disrespects me I do the same thing. I don't give them any more of my time.

Well I don't give them anymore of my time after I tell them I'm not cool with what they did. I look at it as setting boundaries and once the other person knows what my boundaries are it's up to them if they want to make good on crossing that boundary even once.

Keto, keto, keto.....you're falling into that "I gotta get the last word in" crap. You DON'T have to get ANY last word in. Every single time I TRIED to get the last word in, it blew up in my face. At minimum I felt like I just handed her a piece of my dignity.

Yeah I can see where you can take calling a woman out on her behavior too far, but I was just suggesting if you've decided to burn a bridge with someone because of something they did, what's wrong with simply telling them they crossed the line then walking away?

Now since I have become CONSCIOUS of these kinds of things, there have been a couple of times where I kept my mouth shut, as tempted as I was to say something, and WALKED AWAY. Each and every time, 100% without fail, this was the better course of action. I felt like I still had my dignity intact, and the woman still had respect for me, for whatever that is worth.

But haven't you ever experienced that sometimes the walking away's message takes a while to get across and then you will be dealing with her thinking you're a sucker in the interim? She might even contact you and then you have to blow her off in order to be walking away. It just seems easier to let her know you are walking away upfront.

The chick I was seeing for a few months awhile back that basically swung branches after her high school reunion....PRIME example.

She sends me an email telling me she found someone else (I knew by her actions weeks before that), and that if I wanted to "talk about it" to give her a call. She also said she was still planning on attending my party that weekend, if it was ok with me.I responded "Congratulations, hope it works out for you. See you Saturday". And that was that.

Well I agree with being indifferent when she tries to lure you in to pining over her. But like you said women rationalize everything anyway. even though you showed indifference when she initially crossed you she still rationalized that you were upset.

It fukking SUCKED holding my tongue, cause at minimum I felt the email was a chicken sh!t thing to do and she should have told me to my face.

But you know what? I feigned the indifference card (truth is it really DID get to me) and looking back on it I am SOOOO glad I did.

Incidentally, this chick came back into town right before she was about to get married, I thought it was to close the sale of her house, but unbeknownst to me, I was attending her bachelorette party that night. She walked up to me that night and said "You must really hate me about now", to which I smiled and said "Now why would you think such a thing?"

We ended up back at my buddy's house laying on his bed. She was smoking weed with everyone else and ends up laying next to me with her head on my shoulder. I probably could have fukked her one last time, but remained true to my indifference, I got up after about 20 minutes, told everyone to have fun, and left.

OK I can see playing indiference over time worked here. I'm a big fan of indifference too. The thing is though in this case it seemed like a lot of active indifference effort for little gain.

If I had gone off on her it would have done nothing but shown her my weakness toward her, and I would have felt good for ten minutes and then walked around for months feeling like she got the best of me.

Well I agree that going off on a girl is counter-productive, but I don't think my short texts was really rising to the level of going off on her.

Just by you posting this it shows that it got to you, and I think you realize that you and your feelings don't mean sh!t to her. I would bet a hundred bucks that had you simply WALKED AWAY, she would have been calling you (which you would have ignored) and you would now have a greater sense of satisfaction about the whole thing.

I truely don't care about her. I was just wanting to discuss the tactic of telling a girl you are walking away. Had I just walked away she might have contacted me again, but I don't think she would have any inkling that I had walked away until I ignore her, which would've been about the same thing as getting riled up basically. So instead say I just responded indifferently and she gets the message I'm walking away. I really wouldn't have gotten greater satisfation. She really did take an ego hit from me telling her i'm not going to make plans with her again.

The text could have been worse. At least it wasn't overly emotional.

Well it was about me telling her she crossed my boundary of respect. It wasn't really about emotions.

This is GOLD.

A woman's worst enemy isn't YOU or the meaningless words that come out of your mouth, it is her own imagination. Withdrawing attention is the best way to "call a chick out" for just about anything. When I finally did that with my ex g/f she turned into an emotional WRECK. As soon as she saw her sh!t sitting in a box on her porch and knew i was serious about leaving her she lost it. I'm talking worse AFC EVER. Like 50 phone calls in one night up till 5am. I'm talking drive 1/2 hour to sit in front of my door cause I wouldn't let her in kind of sh!t.

Then what did I do? I decided i wanted some more of that luscious pu$$y, and started fukking her again, which gave her the perfect opportunity to find another branch while she still "had" me, and as soon as she did she totally flipped the script and all of the sudden I was the biggest ass hole ever to walk the earth.

Cutting all ties is the ONLY way to break it off with women after they disrespect you. You retain your dignity, and she gets to wallow in the pool of sh!t she created.



Amen brother, amen.

I know you are a firm believer in walking away without notification and then acting indifferent, but if you're cutting ties completely then what's wrong with a clean and fast break?

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

OK I can see playing indiference over time worked here. I'm a big fan of indifference too. The thing is though in this case it seemed like a lot of active indifference effort for little gain.

what is the purpose of indifference? Are you using it at some level of trying to "game" her, so she'll somehow "come around?" Or is it to clear your mind so that you may focus on other options? Is it it to "game" her or to free up YOUR resources? I don't think you can have it both ways, so pick one and stick with it.

Well it was about me telling her she crossed my boundary of respect. It wasn't really about emotions.

What exactly where you trying to achieve by telling her she crossed your boundry? an apology? validation? change of heart?

What would happen if the ONLY response to ANYONE crossing your boundry of respect (in non committed relationship of any kind) was to immediately and silently dissappear?

What message would that send to her?
What position would that put you in if she actively sought you out afterwards?
And more importantly, what message would you be sending to yourself?

 

[ketostix]

what is the purpose of indifference? Are you using it at some level of trying to "game" her, so she'll somehow "come around?" Or is it to clear your mind so that you may focus on other options? Is it it to "game" her or to free up YOUR resources? I don't think you can have it both ways, so pick one and stick with it.

Obviously indifference has different purposes in different situations. What I was suggesting by indifference being effective is when you are trying to attract a woman who you met and who hasn't done anything wrong toward you in particular.

What exactly where you trying to achieve by telling her she crossed your boundry? an apology? validation? change of heart?

Where my boundary is, maybe?

What would happen if the ONLY response to ANYONE crossing your boundry of respect (in non committed relationship of any kind) was to immediately and silently dissappear?

What message would that send to her?
What position would that put you in if she actively sought you out afterwards?
And more importantly, what message would you be sending to yourself?

Well those are the questions that are open for debate.

 

[STR8UP]

Well I don't give them anymore of my time after I tell them I'm not cool with what they did. I look at it as setting boundaries and once the other person knows what my boundaries are it's up to them if they want to make good on crossing that boundary even once.

You set boundaries before you are ready to cut someone out of your life. It does no good to set boundaries when you are on your way out the door. That's nothing more than trying to get the last jab.

Yeah I can see where you can take calling a woman out on her behavior too far, but I was just suggesting if you've decided to burn a bridge with someone because of something they did, what's wrong with simply telling them they crossed the line then walking away?

See, that's the thing.

Unless this was your g/f of five years cheating on you or something, I see no reason to burn the bridge.

I did this with the 22yo recently. I basically cut contact with her because I wasn't going to be a part of her ridiculous fantasy. She kinda disrespected me in the past, but I kept my cool. Who knows what might happen in the future? There isn't a snowball's chance in hell I will be pursuing anything with her, but who knows? I walked away with a few non-confrontational words. If she comes back into town and gets horny, I'll grudge fukk the b!tch if she pursues it...I don't care. Chances are small of this happening, but unless it's a capital offense I see no need to even burn the bridge.

But haven't you ever experienced that sometimes the walking away's message takes a while to get across and then you will be dealing with her thinking you're a sucker in the interim? She might even contact you and then you have to blow her off in order to be walking away. It just seems easier to let her know you are walking away upfront.

If you don't return her calls after a couple of times, she will get the hint. My phone ringing is no sweat off my back. Keep in mind that for her to do something like this her interest level was very low, so chances are she isn't going to be sitting around ruminating over her fukk up anyway. It's likely she might try to contact you once (like the 22yo did) and then when you blow her off she will get the point.

even though you showed indifference when she initially crossed you she still rationalized that you were upset.

Not necessarily.

Like I said, a woman's imagination is her worst enemy. She won't necessarily rationalize that you were upset, because like I said, she probably doesn't even think she did anything wrong. Seriously. Women can blatantly disrespect you and not even realize they are doing it.

Well I agree that going off on a girl is counter-productive, but I don't think my short texts was really rising to the level of going off on her.

If you're gonna say something, you did it the right way. Do it via text and keep it short and sweet.

Personally though, I will continue to try to heed my own advice by not even giving them the benefit of an explanation. It wraps things up in your mind and serves to let you move forward, but it doesn't create bad blood. No reason to do that unless it's an absolute last resort.

She really did take an ego hit from me telling her i'm not going to make plans with her again.

We won't ever know the real truth here, but I'm guessing she didn't take an ego hit of any kind. If her interest was so low to begin with that she ignored you to talk to a bunch of other dudes, she doesn't CARE what you think. And that's the main point I'm getting at here. You can't "punish" someone who has no investment.

Well it was about me telling her she crossed my boundary of respect. It wasn't really about emotions.

And how does letting her know that she can't cross your boundaries benefit you when you cut her off? It doesn't.

You have to look at this from the angle of what is going to be best for you.

I would love nothing more than to b!tch slap a couple of people I know who have wronged me in the past, but I know it would serve no constructive purpose to do so. I could tell them off or talk bad about them to other people, but in the end it does nothing but make me look weak by doing so after they have already displayed the fact that they don't care about ramifications if they cross me.

It all comes down to leverage. If you have leverage over someone (an employee, someone who you have a contract with, a child who cares about and respects you, basically anyone who stands to actually lose something over disrespecting you) then it is wise to assert your boundaries. Trying to gain something over someone when you have no leverage is futile and only serves to weaken you.

I know you are a firm believer in walking away without notification and then acting indifferent, but if you're cutting ties completely then what's wrong with a clean and fast break?

I guess that comes down to the difference between us as far as "cutting ties" goes. I say only burn bridges when necessary. If you choose to finalize it right then and there for whatever reason, then I suppose there is no harm in making a clean break.

 

[Jitterbug]

ketostix, have you read about the similarities between puppy/child training and dealing with women? It's mentioned a lot on these forums. The major theme is "rewarding good behaviours, punishing bad behaviours". What's most important in this reward/punishment scheme is the timing.

When a puppy sh!ts on the carpet, you gotta rub its nose in right there, whack it with a rolled up newspaper and throw it outside of the house as a punishment. If you whack your puppy way after the event then it's not gonna understand what it did wrong. It's even counter-productive because your puppy will resent you and if you keep doing that, it will not obey your commands anymore.

If you want to call a woman out on her bad behaviours, you should do it right there when she's being a b!tch (and explain it clearly & matter-of-factly like a teacher to a child). Doing so after the event will get you that puppy/child-like response: "why did you get mad at me?"

In your case though, as I mentioned at the other place, I bet it's a jealousy test (girls you've hooked up with a few times want to know if you're protective of them and care about them - not to the extent of becoming a green monster though). I'd create or find some fun elsewhere at the venue, then walk up to her and lead her away from those guys (i.e taking charge) to where the fun's at - with me.

 

[ketostix]

ketostix, have you read about the similarities between puppy/child training and dealing with women? It's mentioned a lot on these forums. The major theme is "rewarding good behaviours, punishing bad behaviours". What's most important in this reward/punishment scheme is the timing.

When a puppy sh!ts on the carpet, you gotta rub its nose in right there, whack it with a rolled up newspaper and throw it outside of the house as a punishment. If you whack your puppy way after the event then it's not gonna understand what it did wrong. It's even counter-productive because your puppy will resent you and if you keep doing that, it will not obey your commands anymore.

But see that's just it. She never disrespected me before this point and if you exclude her talking to those guys the whole night, I did "wack" her at the point she did something wrong.

If you want to call a woman out on her bad behaviours, you should do it right there when she's being a b!tch (and explain it clearly & matter-of-factly like a teacher to a child). Doing so after the event will get you that puppy/child-like response: "why did you get mad at me?"

That's what happened though. I called her out when she was being a *****. She said she was, "Going to see if this guy is partying.." And that's when I said "Oh so you are going to ditch me.." then she knew I was going to call her out and she said she was leaving and bolted.

In your case though, as I mentioned at the other place, I bet it's a jealousy test (girls you've hooked up with a few times want to know if you're protective of them and care about them - not to the extent of becoming a green monster though). I'd create or find some fun elsewhere at the venue, then walk up to her and lead her away from those guys (i.e taking charge) to where the fun's at - with me.

Yeah in hindset, I probably should've been more proactive earlier on that night. But things play out through that night and I played unaffected/disinterested like STR8UP and others are suggesting, and what I saw at the end of that night was a clear escalation of disrespect and her seeing what my boundaries are. That's why I called her out on it at what turned out to be the end of the night.

I'll get to some of the other points later when I have more time. What I'm really interested in discussing is the point of if you're going to next a girl permanently anyway of bad behavior then why do it without a word? And basically the questions taiyuu_otoko made.

 

[Jitterbug]

What I'm really interested in discussing is the point of if you're going to next a girl permanently anyway of bad behavior then why do it without a word?

I've done it and I didn't say a word because I didn't care enough. I had the temptation to say something grand and witty just to feel like a movie star (I think we all do), but in the end the care factor was too low for me to bother with it.

It's not about avoiding burning bridges or leaving some room for a sexual chance in the future. That's still caring and expecting something out of it and not true indifference.

If the poor girl really really wants to know why, she will have to do a lot for me before I consider giving her an explanation.

 

[ThunderMaverick]

What are you stressing about? It's not like she's you're girlfriend. You probably should have just let her be and went around trying to game other chicks. I wouldn't worry about teaching an attention ***** who frequent bars a lesson in tact.


What did LMS always say? : hors belong to everyone and no one at the same time!!!!!!!! wake up!!!!!

It's really true. When there isn't much emotion involved it doesn't take much for a woman to pick a better (at the time in her view) looking piece of fruit off the basket. You're better off offering a coffee date next time. Clubs are no good.

 

[jophil28]

She spent must of the time talking to a group of guys. So I would go off and when I'd come back she'd say things like, "You were gone awhile", "I thought you left". But she didn't get the message because she continued to hang with these guys.

At this point (in the quote above,) your date with her was all but over ..on a downward spiral. She turned away from you to flirt with a bunch of other guys and you LET her get away with that disrespect because you came back to speak to her and you stayed around.
It does not matter why she did that - it was unacceptable. If I were in your shoes I would have just walked out and gone to another bar .
IF she called you later I would just say that I had met someone else who is more interesting ,and then let your "date" find her own way home..

I would have no problem burning that bridge without another word spoken.

Understand this- if YOU did to her what she did to you ,then your name would be mud all over town. She would be tearing you to shreds in every convo she had with her G/friends for the next month. You would be the "Azzhole of the Year".

 

[ketostix]

You set boundaries before you are ready to cut someone out of your life. It does no good to set boundaries when you are on your way out the door. That's nothing more than trying to get the last jab.

Yeah, that makes sense. But sometimes when you just start hanging with a girl it doesn't really make sense to set boundaries. And sometimes they just do something sudden and out of left field.

Unless this was your g/f of five years cheating on you or something, I see no reason to burn the bridge.

I did this with the 22yo recently. I basically cut contact with her because I wasn't going to be a part of her ridiculous fantasy. She kinda disrespected me in the past, but I kept my cool. Who knows what might happen in the future? There isn't a snowball's chance in hell I will be pursuing anything with her, but who knows? I walked away with a few non-confrontational words. If she comes back into town and gets horny, I'll grudge fukk the b!tch if she pursues it...I don't care. Chances are small of this happening, but unless it's a capital offense I see no need to even burn the bridge.

Well I can agree here. I don't really care about this girl but if she were to attoin for her behavior and come around I might **** her again. One of the things I was trying to discuss is if telling a girl "you're not going to make plans with her" is burning a bridge per se because really the ball is in her court to try make good on what she did and to try to get you interested in her. But you know what women don't like being called out on their behavior and when it comes to the point they act up, you're probably right saying nothing and walking away probably says it the loudest.


If you don't return her calls after a couple of times, she will get the hint. My phone ringing is no sweat off my back. Keep in mind that for her to do something like this her interest level was very low, so chances are she isn't going to be sitting around ruminating over her fukk up anyway. It's likely she might try to contact you once (like the 22yo did) and then when you blow her off she will get the point.

Not necessarily.

Like I said, a woman's imagination is her worst enemy. She won't necessarily rationalize that you were upset, because like I said, she probably doesn't even think she did anything wrong. Seriously. Women can blatantly disrespect you and not even realize they are doing it.

Yeah I can see the reasoning here. If you say nothing, then she might think, "He doesn't even care that I ditched him. He's probably still at the bar meeting other girls or calling a FB..".

If you're gonna say something, you did it the right way. Do it via text and keep it short and sweet.

Yeah that's what I did and I wasn't suggesting that anyone should ever get into a big conversation over a woman's actions.

We won't ever know the real truth here, but I'm guessing she didn't take an ego hit of any kind. If her interest was so low to begin with that she ignored you to talk to a bunch of other dudes, she doesn't CARE what you think. And that's the main point I'm getting at here. You can't "punish" someone who has no investment.

Well not that it really matters, but my experience with women, especially ones you did stuff with, do take an ego hit when you call them out.

And how does letting her know that she can't cross your boundaries benefit you when you cut her off? It doesn't.

You have to look at this from the angle of what is going to be best for you.

I would love nothing more than to b!tch slap a couple of people I know who have wronged me in the past, but I know it would serve no constructive purpose to do so. I could tell them off or talk bad about them to other people, but in the end it does nothing but make me look weak by doing so after they have already displayed the fact that they don't care about ramifications if they cross me.

It all comes down to leverage. If you have leverage over someone (an employee, someone who you have a contract with, a child who cares about and respects you, basically anyone who stands to actually lose something over disrespecting you) then it is wise to assert your boundaries. Trying to gain something over someone when you have no leverage is futile and only serves to weaken you.


I guess that comes down to the difference between us as far as "cutting ties" goes. I say only burn bridges when necessary. If you choose to finalize it right then and there for whatever reason, then I suppose there is no harm in making a clean break.

I think times have changed. There was a time when men did generally have leverage with women, but not so much now.

 

[ketostix]

This thread comes down to the oft discussed question......

Do we tell her off? Or do we walk away?

My answer to this is "It Depends".


If you have yet to set the boundary, you firmly tell her that what she has done is unacceptable to you, and you will not tolerate it.

If you have already set the boundary, you walk away. She already knows she did something wrong. If you rip into her on it, you only show her that she got to you.

Now this situation is a little unique in that.....

1. There doesn't seem to be any defined relationship, not even defined as fb's. It sounds as if you've just managed to hookup a few times with no expectations whatsoever.
   
2. What she did is beyond disrespectful for someone that is more than just a couple of random sex episodes. However if it was just a few random hookups with you, she is free to do as she wishes, just as you are free to do the same.

Given these circumstances, if you were just random episodes of sex, don't even bother giving her any sort of smackdown, it shows that she is more to you than sex and she knows she has the frame.

If you were more than random episodes of sex....well her offense is serious enough that I don't even think you need to set a boundary. I think you just walk away anyways. Some boundaries exist without having to speak of them. They just are.

This is a good distinction. In this particular situation I should've like Jophil said set the boundary first when she took talking to the other guys too far by leaving her and letting her come find me.

 

[jophil28]

Some boundaries exist without having to speak of them. They just are.

That is true. This is more like the objectivist view of ethics and morals.
Mostly those of us who are "old school" subscribe to this because it works and it has worked well for thousands of years.
Unfortunately it is not practised by most women, relativists, subjectivists, alcoholics, drug abusers, BPD women ,and other assorted liberals, lefties, feminists and various other bottom dwellers.

 

[jophil28]

If you have yet to set the boundary, you firmly tell her that what she has done is unacceptable to you, and you will not tolerate it.

If you have already set the boundary, you walk away. She already knows she did something wrong. If you rip into her on it, you only show her that she got to you.

Well conceived and well said.

 

[jophil28]

If you have yet to set the boundary, you firmly tell her that what she has done is unacceptable to you, and you will not tolerate it.

If you have already set the boundary, you walk away. She already knows she did something wrong. If you rip into her on it, you only show her that she got to you.

Well conceived and well said.

 

[STR8UP]

Yeah, that makes sense. But sometimes when you just start hanging with a girl it doesn't really make sense to set boundaries. And sometimes they just do something sudden and out of left field.

True, true. But that's why I say in a situation such as this words serve no purpose one way or the other. You haven't known each other long enough to establish boundaries, but as per Danger's excellent post, some things shouldn't have to be spelled out. I also agree that this was a unique situation, and your reaction should depend upon the circumstances, but I still say in this situation I wouldn't have said anything.

This reminds me of the talent scout that I was banging for awhile last year. She was partying at a club a few blocks from my house, told me she was coming over after last call, CALLED ME with a play by play every ten minutes "on her way" to my house, then I don't hear from her for 45 minutes and she calls and tells me she's too drunk to drive so she's following her friend home (when my place was BLOCKS away). What likely happened was she knew I don't really get into doing blow, so she went to hang out with some people she could "really party with".

I kept my cool fairly well with her. No doubt I could have "ended" it, but who knows....she gave one of the best BJ's I've ever had and if she comes back into town?????

But you know what women don't like being called out on their behavior and when it comes to the point they act up, you're probably right saying nothing and walking away probably says it the loudest.[/quote

They HATE being called out, so much so that they will make YOU out to be the jealous, controlling ass hole in their mind. The 22yo tried to pull that sh!t on me when I told her I was disappointed in her for what had transpired. You could see the smoke coming out of her ears when she told me how much she HATES someone "judging" her or "holding" her to something. What she was basically saying was that she can't stand the icky feeling she gets from being held ACCOUNTABLE, so she rationalizes it away or shifts blame. They ALL do this. That's why all you can do is withold your attention, because if they don't value your attention it was a lost cause to begin with, and if they DO value your attention it will fukk with them way worse than they fukked with you.

Yeah that's what I did and I wasn't suggesting that anyone should ever get into a big conversation over a woman's actions.

That's the WORST thing you can do. Try to win an argument using overt communication with an irrational, emotional creature who lacks accountability.

I think times have changed. There was a time when men did generally have leverage with women, but not so much now.

True, but a man who she REALLY wants has all the leverage in the world. It just seems harder and harder to get yourself in that position these days.

 

[Mr. Me]

ketostix, interesting thread and I see you're asking questions about the various nuances, but consider the bottom line overall:

Point of fact is, that all your text to her did, when she just so happened to bump into you - after two weeks of no contact following the incident - was for her to flip the blame to you. That's it.

IOW, it's really ineffective. It just lets them know they can get to you. That if they nick you, you'll b1tch about it to them. And respect is the cornerstone of love and caring, so, if they don't respect you, they don't love you and they don't care about you. And if they don't care about you, then they couldn't care less that you're not approving of what they're doing.

Your basically telling a person that doesn't care about you that you don't like that they don't care about you.

But the one least interested is the one with the most power, right? So all you're doing is letting her know you're more vested in the dating relationship then she is.

Discussions and reasoning and arguments, that's her game. Women are really good at creating excuses and trying to make you feel guilty and if that doesn't work, then tearing up.

Meanwhile, you may be okay at... texting? This is like bringing a knife to a gun fight!

Saying anything simply keeps it all in play.

When you don't play her game - your actions speak for you. Loudly. But instead of giving them more play opportunities with your words, your actions trigger them deep inside because the absence or loss is physically, viably, realized (if it's going to trigger them at all. If they don't care, they won't care, but at least they'll know that you'll walk if disrespected).

One of the most memorable, powerful lines in cinema history comes from a line that has endured about 70 years. "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn". It's interesting that wikipedia states regarding this line (emphasis mine): "The line is memorable... because it demonstrates that Rhett has finally given up on Scarlett and no longer cares what happens to her."

Ah, the power of indifference. Lasts a long time.