Post from the Orient by a guy that's losing all hope.Help needed.

[Puddly]

This is good to hear man. The more you have to be happy about in your life,the easier problem #1 will be to solve.

Unfortunately,there are some members here who will not try to help you,but instead will only be negative and make stupid,immature remarks. I have faith in your judgement to be able to determine who you should listen to and who you should not.

That's alright, I can take a bit of stick and am pretty selective about what I take on board. So far its GOLD. I've been sharing with my bro--recently got hitched though.

Oh yeah,one more thing. We're not going to let you off the hook that easy man. Nobody knows everything. I'm sure that you can be a help to us as well. I'm sure there are some things that you know that could be a benefit to us.
That's what it's about. Everybody helping everybody. So if you see a question or a situation that you know the answer to,chime in,let us know.

Can do--my experiences, although extensive, might read as a TEXTBOOK about the things you shouldn't be doing.
Anyway,like I said,focus on the good things in your life. Let those things
be your source of your happiness,not women.

That is very wise-I understood it immediately--all my life 'happiness' has been equated (inverse proportion) to having a bird in my life--and its why I'm here now cos there usually isn't. No one ever gave me a clue it should be any other way. And there's plenty to be happy about--actually like my job, plenty of interests etc. And East Java man--they are the sweetest, hottest, FEMININE women east of Panama (yeah have stories from there too--oil industry, gets you all over).

Bloody decent of you to give me the time...already, I had a great day today chatting up the girls in the bookstore and could be tempted to head over to Dolly's, the most INSANE red light zone--anywhere, I believe--and not a foreigner in sight, to top it off. but probably won't, cos I'm feeling a little less desperate.

 

[Puddly]

Thanks all for getting me started here. Realized I hadn't read the Bible --when someone mentioned the 'Bible' I actually thought they meant the Bible. I downloaded the DJBC and have been working through it today. Realized immediately that I've been going about things COMPLETELY the wrong way-pretty much as a ***** doormat with women--it pains me to have to say that. And I'm basically in chick paradise--an opportunity I might never get again and the frustration is actually affecting my health. So am keen to start boot camp as a BAFC. Any advice on this? Can I just go it alone if there isn't one to join? cheers, P

 

[Hooligan Harry]

Puddly, in my experience, I have found that any connection at first is almost always superficial. Its either based on physical attraction or similar interests. In your case it will be based on the fact that as a foreigner you are different and exciting to them.

Its why a woman seems so wonderful the first three months you date her only for her to become a harpy as time progresses.

 

[Igetit!]

Thanks all for getting me started here. Realized I hadn't read the Bible --when someone mentioned the 'Bible' I actually thought they meant the Bible. I downloaded the DJBC and have been working through it today. Realized immediately that I've been going about things COMPLETELY the wrong way-pretty much as a ***** doormat with women--it pains me to have to say that. And I'm basically in chick paradise--an opportunity I might never get again and the frustration is actually affecting my health. So am keen to start boot camp as a BAFC. Any advice on this? Can I just go it alone if there isn't one to join? cheers, P

What up man,

Glad to see that you've started you transformation journey by reading the DJ bible. There is only so much the other members here and myself can give you to help you out, but the DJbible covers a wide array of topics that we might miss. You want to know if you should start the bootcamp alone or not. It's always better if you have someone along side you to share the experience with,however it isn't necessary. Also,it's your life man. In the end,any benefit will enhance your life,or if you choose not to do anything,any anger,frustration,and depression you encounter will be yours alone to bare. My advice would be to just go for it. If someone else wants to join you,then fine,if not,then hey,you'll have to make it alone. But know this:you have the WHOLE FORUM here to support you,cheer you on,and advise you should the need arise.

So really,you aren't alone.

Let me leave you with this and throughout your journey,keep it in mind:

Your difficulties with women ARE NOT the problem. The difficulties with women are the RESULT of the problem.

 

[DonGorgon]

Your reply was so imbecile that I registered just to express my indignation. As is the case with your other posts, you offer nothing, with the only difference being that your grammar and spelling have somewhat improved compared to the past.

This man asks for advice from other men, not immature boys like you. The only reason you posted was to insult him and this says a lot about how your posts should be viewed.

I agree with you it was a very bad post..

 

[Puddly]

Thanks Senior H and MDJIgetit!. I've started on boot camp. Made some interesting observations about my whole approach as part of field work. Its pretty interesting going about this with new insights and an almost scientific frame of mind. Will keep you posted! P

 

[Puddly]

Started boot camp yesterday after a crash reading course. I got to admit, I dragged myself around here *trying* to pick up girls/women for months when I had the time-without a plan or skills and needless to say without success. I already can relate one little story--the bird in the pirated software shop where I pick up my 'cracked' copies of autocad... She's hot, wears a cross so probably eurasian about 28, short but built--for me dream stuff. Instant attraction although too young if you don't have any game--i knew that already. Anyway, I'd always be overly polite, nice (**** I hate that) in the face of humiliating and painful indifference, however beautiful. I saw all that yesterday, acted 'normal' and got it--she's not interested, so move on...BAFC. The point of this illustration is the fear is gone when you understand better.

 

[Igetit!]

Started boot camp yesterday after a crash reading course.

What's up man. Hey,I'm just curious. You said that you had a crash course reading. What exactly did you read up on?

 

[Puddly]

Doing alright, cheers Igetit! Started on random posts which led to the DJBC and Bible. Note--In the past I picked up on 'how to get laid' gimmick sites on the net--total bs. So far finding the Bible is damn good. I read a lot-and wouldn't continue if it wasn't. Some posts bit immature for me--and that's ok too-its only cos I've been around longer. I'm posting field notes on the BC for mature blokes now. P

 

[Puddly]

IGetit! been cruising through the exercises. Dragging myself into situations what aren't that comfortable-but already noticed a change. Plenty of EC/smile and some chatting up but just keeping it light--as best I can--not easy this cos I am a serious bloke these days. Result is about 75% smile back and maybe laugh a bit.

Friends used to say I had a good wit and I used to have great gfs-so I know what its like-but somewhere there things went wrong and I didn't know how to bounce back from the setbacks or oneitis. So making some progress here--SS seems to be a good catalyst cos as they say first step is knowing ya have a problem!!!

 

[Igetit!]

IGetit! been cruising through the exercises. Dragging myself into situations what aren't that comfortable-but already noticed a change. Plenty of EC/smile and some chatting up but just keeping it light--as best I can--not easy this cos I am a serious bloke these days. Result is about 75% smile back and maybe laugh a bit.

Friends used to say I had a good wit and I used to have great gfs-so I know what its like-but somewhere there things went wrong and I didn't know how to bounce back from the setbacks or oneitis. So making some progress here--SS seems to be a good catalyst cos as they say first step is knowing ya have a problem!!!

What's up Puddly,

Pushing yourself out of your comfort zone. Very impressive,man. That means that you are not only open to trying new things,but are actually doing them. That's good because a lot of people will complain about situations in their lives,but instead of trying to make things better,they just complain,and keep right on doing the same things that cause the problems in the first place.

I agree with you. Sosuave is a great forum for improvement,not only when it comes to dating,but just making lives better in general. It teaches self-respect,self-esteem,and just plain being a MAN period.
Actually,the problems with women are just a symtom of the real inner problem of insecurity/low self-esteem. In fact,you can not even know you have these issues unless they manifest themselves as problems with women.

Anyway,keep up the good work man. Keep letting us know of you progress. Seeing others suceed will let others know that they too can make it too.
And as always,if you hit any stumbling blocks along the way,let us know,and we can all put our heads together to figure this thing out.

Peace man.

 

[Puddly]

that's good advice Igetit! I really needed to start work on this--its like I hit rock bottom socially.
I couldn't get out today but met a nice girl in a town called Tretes here on the weekend--long bike ride away. Sure her way of making a living is at least a little dubious but I thought, bugger it, she's hot and hears all sorts of crap from guys much more confident than me so I'll go for it anyway. And I did. I noticed I tend to stare at girls like that a lot when communicating--like I'm taking in the good looks cos I don't know when I'll get that close to them again. Bit too attentive--that is a real AFC trait and it pisses me off and I noticed things didn't go smoothly at that time. I read on a thread--only look at them when they are talking--makes sense.

I have to tackle a club soon--not a venue I was ever confident in. And now going alone and older--I dunno. But its not so much to meet women as to observe how's other are tacking it--worth a try?? I have crap dancing skills, no much of a drinker anymore, voice bit on the quiet side (would like to work on that) so its really out of my element. Having said that, its a different environment here, maybe I can learn something...

 

[Igetit!]

What's up Puddly,

Hey it looks like your doing well in your quest to improve your life and to better understand women. Glad to hear it,man. It's easy to tell your making progress,because you're observing yourself and pointing out mistakes that you are making without anyone else telling you. So you said that you approached a woman and things didn't go too well. Don't worry about it man.
We've all been there. The important thing to do is to examine the interaction as best you can to see if there were any mistakes or errors you made so you can correct them. Trust me on this one,Puddly. The LAST THING you want to do is keep making the same mistakes over and over again,girl after girl,only to find out 5 or 10 years later that is was something easily
correctable. This works both ways. Not only should you examine your approaches when you get turned down,but if you ask out a woman,and she says yes,you also want to examine it to see what you did right.

This way,with each woman you approach,your contining to grow. With each approach(whether she accepts you or rejects you),you learn. If she turns you down,learn your mistakes in order not to do them again. If she accepts a date with you,learn what you did right so you can do those things again on purpose.

Remember to keep yourself,that is,your life as your source of self-esteem,not a woman's response to you.

This is what some guys do:If a beautiful woman smiles at them,they feel good about themselves. If she is mean or standoffish to them,they feel bad about themselves. So their sense of self-esteem/self-confidence is dependent on the response of some woman who they don't even know.
If she smiles at them,they think,"Yeah,I'm the man. I'm on top of the world. I feel like a million bucks". If she's cold or rude,they think,"She thinks I'm ugly. What was I thinking? I'm a loser. I'll never find anyone."

All of that based on whether some woman they don't even know smiled at them or not. Crazy,huh? Don't be like that.

One of these days you should give us an account of one of your approaches so we can break it down and give you some feedback. Doesn't matter if the approach is successful or not,we'll look at it and help out wherever we can.

Peace man.

 

[Puddly]

Howdy again Igetit! Appreciate the great input. Tackling this issue and learning (ie moving forward) is good for the spirit man. I did close with that girl and exchanged numbers--and she called. That's ok--I attach nothing to it, she's VERY likely a 'renter' and that's ok for what it is. Making the same mistakes? That's why I'm here. Younger guys on the group should know you're basically the same in your 40s as 20s if you end up single again, or even if your hitched in many ways. I can say I suffered an appauling case of oneitis in my 20s and never understood how a great situation can turn out so ****--and then dwell on it FOR years man. I consider myself a pretty intelligent bloke but I couldn't get over it--if I could help anyone in that situation I would. I tried all sorts of stuff--even time in military--and it wasn't pretty (talk about being caught in the matrix of stupid media driven reactions!). I see already it was classic AFC--at its spirit crushing, destructive worst. Simply to not make the same mistake I missed out on a lot of fun times (maybe meaningful women--I dunno!) and even settled with a wife and was never happy--which is worse cos other people get hurt then. Got to get out of this basing yer worth of someone's first reaction. And if you're not acting friendly--waddyaexpect??? Good lesson in life. So got to get back out there and work some more. Cheers mate, P

 

[Igetit!]

What's up man,

So you actually did exchange numbers with this woman. Congrats,man. I guess I somehow misunderstood and thought things didn't go well.
Hopefully you took the time to review the interaction to see what you did right in order to commit those things to memory. Examine everything,your conversation,energy level,your bodylanguage. A lot of guys will get so happy,so excited that a woman showed a little interest in them,that they'll let that excitement blind them to the things they did that caused the success in the first place. Instead of finding out what they did right,they think they just got "lucky". Personally,I reject the notion of leaving my dating life or any other important area of my life to chance or luck.

That thing I said about basing your self-esteem on women's responses to you is an easy one to fix. The thing is this:When you approach a woman,you don't know her. You don't know anything about her,what's going on in her life,whether she's married or not,etc. So if you approach her and she turns you down,to me,that just means she's not interested. Period. I don't take it personally and think that there's something wrong with me. For all you know,she could have just gotten fired from her job an hour ago when you approached her,or maybe she just received a phone call that one of her loved ones was in a car accident,or maybe she's sick and not feeling well. Who knows. The possibilities are endless. The point is you don't know the real reason why she's turns you down,so there's no sense in making one up and making yourself feel bad.

However,at the same time,you DO want to present you best self possible.
That's why I think self examination is a good idea,because it is possible that you could be doing something to turn women off,so you'll want to find that out and correct as soon as possible.

Anyway,glad to see things working out for you man. Let us know how things go with you and this young lady,keep us updated,

Peace man.

 

[More Cowbell Please]

I'm new here, but I can tell you that you need to stop making excuses(they only like foreign guys, etc.) and push forward. To do anything in life you must have persistence and belief in yourself as The Great Catch. You will become as you think. You also should not focus all your energy in picking up women. Live in the moment. Drink in your surroundings and live life for all it's worth.

 

[Puddly]

Field notes DJBC Mature Bloke

I'm new here.

Thanks man--I'm new too and starting on boot camp exercises as a way of forcing myself to be more sociable in general and of course with a view to relaxing more talking to women.

To do anything in life you must have persistence and belief in yourself as The Great Catch.

This seems true and makes a lot of sense--when I was much younger, my mates who seems to get girl after girl had that 'don't give a ****' attitude--I never put the 2 together--I just tired to be nicer and nicer, supplicating more and more--the efforts were usually not rewarded so when they are, you start to 'pedestal' more and more and become more and more desperate. That's my experience anyway. Its horrible mate. A self reinforcing pattern--I have to break that now--so you can see the emphasis on physical interaction--I actually 'see' myself fall into it now--a real eye opener.

You will become as you think. You also should not focus all your energy in picking up women. Live in the moment. Drink in your surroundings and live life for all it's worth.

Am trying hard to break the negative thought patterns--and do that more. I'm actually not wasting much energy on 'pick ups'--its part of Boot Camp--don't attach much importance to the result.

Funny thing is I don't have much fear of public speaking and all that--gave a seminar here just yesterday on peak oil or whatever --to about 250 people I've never met--went great--got the smiling/cracking a few jokes going and enjoyed it--IGetit! put me onto that cos I can get real serious. But interacting with a bird I fancy!! pathetic--desperate.

Here's a classic little example-painful to recount but its part of my field notes--the secretary in my office when I came here a year ago--very hot (sister is Miss Indonesia), real friendly, hinting that at 30 she should be married, blah, blah, blah...I started into the usual pattern, paying too much attention, acting somewhat puerile, waiting months to ask for a date--so when I did I was so desperate--it went badly, she lost interest (respect too--I dunno)--but I continued to try to ingratiate myself and get this--I went away for a while and when I came back, acted pissed off when she started dating some bloke!!! Yeah--poor form all round. I still communicate with her (I have to) but shaking off some of the AFC garbage. I've got a long, long way to go cos my starting point is about BAFC--but its a start.

Road trip today--great--just taking it all in. P

 

[Puddly]

I'm new here.

Thanks man--I'm new too and starting on boot camp exercises as a way of forcing myself to be more sociable in general and of course with a view to relaxing more talking to women.

To do anything in life you must have persistence and belief in yourself as The Great Catch.

This seems true and makes a lot of sense--when I was much younger, my mates who seems to get girl after girl had that 'don't give a ****' attitude--I never put the 2 together--I just tired to be nicer and nicer, supplicating more and more--the efforts were usually not rewarded so when they are, you start to 'pedestal' more and more and become more and more desperate. That's my experience anyway. Its horrible mate. A self reinforcing pattern--I have to break that now--so you can see the emphasis on physical interaction--I actually 'see' myself fall into it now--a real eye opener.

You will become as you think. You also should not focus all your energy in picking up women. Live in the moment. Drink in your surroundings and live life for all it's worth.

Am trying hard to break the negative thought patterns--and do that more. I'm actually not wasting much energy on 'pick ups'--its part of Boot Camp--don't attach much importance to the result.

Funny thing is I don't have much fear of public speaking and all that--gave a seminar here just yesterday on peak oil or whatever --to about 250 people I've never met--went great--got the smiling/cracking a few jokes going and enjoyed it--IGetit! put me onto that cos I can get real serious. But interacting with a bird I fancy!! pathetic--desperate.

Here's a classic little example-painful to recount but its part of my field notes--the secretary in my office when I came here a year ago--very hot (sister is Miss Indonesia), real friendly, hinting that at 30 she should be married, blah, blah, blah...I started into the usual pattern, paying too much attention, acting somewhat puerile, waiting months to ask for a date--so when I did I was so desperate--it went badly, she lost interest (respect too--I dunno)--but I continued to try to ingratiate myself and get this--I went away for a while and when I came back, acted pissed off when she started dating some bloke!!! Yeah--poor form all round. I still communicate with her (I have to) but shaking off some of the AFC garbage. I've got a long, long way to go cos my starting point is about BAFC--but its a start.

Road trip today just taking it all in. P

 

[Puddly]

Quick update from Puddly

Trying to shed some of the more debilitating AFC behaviours over my last weeks in Indonesia was great--it was obvious that once I started to read the threads that a few changes needed to be made. Thanks for the DJs who got me started in the right direction. Unfortunately I spent most of my time in that great country doing AFC crap and regreted it.

Back home for a couple of days now and being sent out to the Pacific now--Solomons and Vanuatu. Got a question for a master DJ as AFC affects yer professional life too--might have to be a private message though. New assignment be very different and no place for an AFC either--nowhere is really, cos you're not being true to yourself--had that sorted for a long time. Used to think I was 'missing out' if didn't have a girl around--just enjoying doing my own thing a lot more now. Got a lot of work to do yet though.
Will keep you posted...P

 

[Puddly]

Quick update from Puddly

Trying to shed some of the more debilitating AFC behaviours over my last weeks in Indonesia was great--it was obvious that once I started to read the threads that a few changes needed to be made. Thanks for the DJs who got me started in the right direction. Unfortunately I spent most of my time in that great country doing AFC crap and regreted it.

Back home for a couple of days now and being sent out to the Pacific now--Solomons and Vanuatu. Got a question for a master DJ as AFC affects yer professional life too--might have to be a private message though. New assignment be very different and no place for an AFC either--nowhere is really, cos you're not being true to yourself--had that sorted for a long time. Used to think I was 'missing out' if didn't have a girl around--just enjoying doing my own thing a lot more now. Got a lot of work to do yet though.
Will keep you posted...P