Post First Date--now how to Second, Third (4th..Nth) Date?

[julym]

Hi DJs and other members, allow me to get to the gist of the situation, as I would really appreciate your comments/suggestions!

PRELUDE
I'm in my mid 20s. I "met" this girl (early 20s) on myspace online. It's not really "meeting" her because I just looked at some of the local women's websites and entries (NOT personals) and she stood out. I wrote her a rather suggestive email (wanna have some naughty fun--that kind of stuff) not expecting a response. But she did respond, but cautiously. So I started to be nicer and asked her about her hobbies and interests and volunteered something about myself.

So there were 4 or 5 back and forth messages where we described our hobbies and interests and I felt there was good rapport. The messages from both of us were not too long but definitely not short. She was responsive. So I said I found her interesting and would love to meet to know her better "sometime" (though I wanted to meet her early, but I didn't want to come on too strong so I said sometime). She wrote back by midweek and said it'd be nice to do so and that she's busy during weekdays but her weekends are "flexible" and asked about my schedule. I didn't respond directly, suggesting only that we meet on Saturday for lunch. I asked for her number so we could work out the details and said I could pick her up. She wrote back and gave me her number, though she suggested we meet at the restaurant directly (she picked a place that I also love, though I had wanted to reserve it for a second, dinner date--also as it turned out, we live in the same part of the same city). She did give me her number, but implied that I should call her only if "things come up". So I didn't call. We didn't email each other for 2 or 3 days (after setting the time and location), then came the date on Saturday (yesterday).

FIRST DATE
Remember we've only seen each other's pictures. I don't now what she thought of my real person compared to my pics, but I must say she looks way better than her pictures. She also wore a beautiful purple dress (I was totally blown away by how gorgeous she looked, but tried not to compliment her too much except to say it's a nice dress). (I was also glad that I wrote khakis and a polo shirt instead of just jeans, given what she was wearing).

Long story short: the lunch date lasted for almost 2 and a half hours. My fears of the conversation drying up were unfounded--the conversations just flowed. I already knew about some of her major interests and hobbies and started with those, and she responded well. She talked a lot and I'd say much of the talking. I was just a facilitator. She also smiled a lot (though we had only 1 or 2 laughing out loud moments). There were lots of eye contacts (ohh..her green eyes!). She brushed her hair on one side of her shoulders quite a few times.

However, there were other factors: based on my reading of her website (and she told me herself) she seems to have just come out of a relationship (she was ditched I think). In our conversations (and email) she emphasized "honesty" a lot. She seems to have been hurt rather recently. Other potentially bad (?) signs included: her calling her ex to arrange for the pick up of animals that they used to raise together. She said after a break-up they remained on friendly terms, and she said that people who cut off all contacts after the love is gone are immature--I agreed with her (honestly--though I was still a bugged a little bit by her phone call at the end). Anyway, I picked up the tab without saying anything (she didn't say anything either--didn't thank me either). Then we parted (again, after more than 2 hours on the first, lunch, date). And here I think I had another bad (?) sign: we shook hands (I think at her initiative). Now, I didn't expect to kiss her in broad day light on the first date, but shaking hands seems like a friend's gesture to me... I said I enjoyed myself and "let's do this sometime again" She said "keep in touch". So I asked if I should email or call her (remember I still haven't called her, since we met directly at the place). She said email is "fine."

POST-FIRST DATE
The bottom line on my end: I want to see this woman again. We share many interests. She loves art, (teaching) children, and animals (she said these are the 3 biggest interests of hers). She is, again, gorgeous (way better than the already nice pictures). She's also quite refined and classy (maybe it's the dress!--but no her attitude, too). We also have similar career goals (both wanting to be teachers).

Now my friends, I hope you will give me some advice *based on the realities of the situation as I have described them as objectively as possible*. I think some potentially good signs are: we share a lot of interests; we made lots of eye contacts; the conversation flowed almost effortlessly for 2 hours, and she did most of the talking; she said "keep in touch" at the end; also, before the date she already said her weekends are flexible so she's giving me the best dating time period. Some potentially bad signs are: she didn't ask me a lot of questions (and I know much more about her from our conversation and her website than she knows about me); she shook my hands at the end; she didn't say call me when i asked email, or calling; she talked about her ex's (2 of them, one on friendly terms--the guy with animals; and 1 just cut off contacts with her entirely and she seemed to be bitter/sad about it); also, she seemed not to have gotten over her ex yet (the one who cut off contacts).

QUESTIONS (in search of answers/comments/suggestions):
1. Based on what I've described, did you think the date go well from her point of view (I think it went well--though not spectacular--for me)? What do you think of the overall situation? Is it going alright so far?

2. I'm determined to ask her out again, so now the question is WHEN to write back? Our date was on Saturday. When should I write to her again? Should I just say I had a nice time and made some small talk and wait for another day to ask her out? Or should I go ahead and ask her out in an email? How long should I wait to write to her? (Actually we carried on very well in our email messages so I don't mind emailing--that's what I prefer actually, though I don't know whether not wanting me to call is a bad sign as I think it is). HOW should I proceed from now on?

3. If I get a second date (I hope I do!), what activities or places should I go? Please suggest some dating activities/plans that have worked well for you before. Should I buy her flowers on a second date?

4. I guess I'm thinking ahead of myself. I still haven't contacted her in any way. Again, when should I write to her again and what should I say?

THANK YOU SO MUCH! I look forward to your comments/suggestions.

 

[swaptrex]

well, i didn't read your whole post...but based on what i did read i would say you should kiss the writing days through myspace goodbye. you got her number, call her tomorrow or soon in the evening(depending on her schedule), keep it short and arrange for something late in the week or weekend.

 

[julym]

thanks for the reply, swaptrex. I would appreciate more advice, please keep them coming! I'd be very grateful!

 

[Dannyrt34]

Some of the best dates I been on were the more simple ones, you say she's a big talker. Well, go someplace where you can take her at night to go for a walk. I usually go down to this place near where I live called "The Waterfront" It's just a nice area with all kinds of shops, bars, restaurants, all along the river. And on a beautiful, warm summer night, it's quite romantic with all the shops' colorful neon lights shining down on the water, where you can watch the boats go by. It allows for some talking time. And there's plenty to talk about, and to do with all the activities in the area.

And definitely go with more than just 'talking' on the next date, establish some good eye contact, kino, and even a kiss. You can tell when a girl is ready to be kissed, if she shows interest, you can almost guarantee she'll let you kiss her. If you stick with just going out with her for some good conversation, you can be sure you'll end up in the friend zone, so don't linger on one step for too long, take it to the next level.

As for contacting her, just wait about 2 days, I never really had a problem with a girl losing interest by me contacting her too soon, and I just contact her whenever I feel like it.

 

[julym]

Danny, thanks for taking the time to respond. You have given me some great ideas! (shops, waterfront). There's a river running through my city and now I have a lot of nice ideas for a second date. We did have good eye contacts, but there's no touching (besides the little handshake). I used to be shy when looking a girl in the eye, and would look away quickly, but this time I just looked at her--it's much easier when she has those beautiful eyes.

Hope I'll get a chance to use some of the nice ideas for a second date.

 

[Pimp-sicle]

Hi DJs and other members, allow me to get to the gist of the situation, as I would really appreciate your comments/suggestions!

PRELUDE
I'm in my mid 20s. I "met" this girl (early 20s) on myspace online. It's not really "meeting" her because I just looked at some of the local women's websites and entries (NOT personals) and she stood out. I wrote her a rather suggestive email (wanna have some naughty fun--that kind of stuff) not expecting a response. But she did respond, but cautiously. So I started to be nicer and asked her about her hobbies and interests and volunteered something about myself.

Rule of thumb since you seem like you lack experience seducing women. Never talk about mundane boring topics that she could talk about with practically anyone. Instead engage her with your personality, show her how much fun it is to be around you and keep her guessing. Of course you need to fluff her a bit in the beginning, establish some rapport then open up, but your clearly are headed towards the friend zone here.

So there were 4 or 5 back and forth messages where we described our hobbies and interests and I felt there was good rapport. The messages from both of us were not too long but definitely not short. She was responsive. So I said I found her interesting and would love to meet to know her better "sometime" (though I wanted to meet her early, but I didn't want to come on too strong so I said sometime). She wrote back by midweek and said it'd be nice to do so and that she's busy during weekdays but her weekends are "flexible" and asked about my schedule. I didn't respond directly, suggesting only that we meet on Saturday for lunch. I asked for her number so we could work out the details and said I could pick her up. She wrote back and gave me her number, though she suggested we meet at the restaurant directly (she picked a place that I also love, though I had wanted to reserve it for a second, dinner date--also as it turned out, we live in the same part of the same city). She did give me her number, but implied that I should call her only if "things come up". So I didn't call. We didn't email each other for 2 or 3 days (after setting the time and location), then came the date on Saturday (yesterday).

The best way to go about a first date is to make it seem as little like "a date" as possible. I realize she said the weekends were better for her, but there are plenty of better things you could've done rather than go to lunch. That again falls into the mundane, boring side of things. How are you going to set yourself apart from all the other guys who hit on her, when your doing all the same things?? Never pick a girl up from her place so early on! You should've been the one to suggest meeting at the location and you should have lead the conversation! Instead you let it turn into an Oprah marathon with her blabbering about bull****. Remember girls work off their emotions, you need to make her mind run wild, instead you were acting like one of her girlfriends.


FIRST DATE
Remember we've only seen each other's pictures. I don't now what she thought of my real person compared to my pics, but I must say she looks way better than her pictures. She also wore a beautiful purple dress (I was totally blown away by how gorgeous she looked, but tried not to compliment her too much except to say it's a nice dress). (I was also glad that I wrote khakis and a polo shirt instead of just jeans, given what she was wearing).

Was it an upscale restaurant? Seems like she overdressed a bit, but its always positive if the girl puts effort into her appearance. You did good by not complimenting her and telling her all the typical AFC **** that every other guy would have said, but you still seemed liked your tongue was hanging outside your mouth the entire date.

Long story short: the lunch date lasted for almost 2 and a half hours. My fears of the conversation drying up were unfounded--the conversations just flowed. I already knew about some of her major interests and hobbies and started with those, and she responded well. She talked a lot and I'd say much of the talking. I was just a facilitator. She also smiled a lot (though we had only 1 or 2 laughing out loud moments). There were lots of eye contacts (ohh..her green eyes!). She brushed her hair on one side of her shoulders quite a few times.

Two and half hours!!! Good lord might as well brought your sleeping bag and pitched a tent right there in the booth! General rule of thumb, never spend a ridiculously long time on a date, especially a first date with a girl unless you've already slept with her, or you know her interest level is extremely high. Seems like you started off the date on the right foot and slowly transformed into one of her girlfriends as the date progressed. Not because you acted completely like a chump, but because you didn't excite her, you didn't create an attraction and you didn't seem like you were confident and in control. It sounds more like you were interviewing her, rather than having a conversation with her.


However, there were other factors: based on my reading of her website (and she told me herself) she seems to have just come out of a relationship (she was ditched I think). In our conversations (and email) she emphasized "honesty" a lot. She seems to have been hurt rather recently. Other potentially bad (?) signs included: her calling her ex to arrange for the pick up of animals that they used to raise together. She said after a break-up they remained on friendly terms, and she said that people who cut off all contacts after the love is gone are immature--I agreed with her (honestly--though I was still a bugged a little bit by her phone call at the end).

You acted like a chump here! You were scared to have an opinion on a very important topic because you wanted to tell her what she wanted to hear, rather than what you truely felt about the topic! If a girl stays in contact with her ex, its not a good sign. Not because it means she'll cheat, but because it means the potential is there for it and she that you would get extremely jealous if she chose to hang out with him "just as friends" though. You can't be afraid to speak your mind!! Better to find out right off the bat that a girl isn't your type, rather than waste months and months clinging to a false hope of who you want her to be.

Anyway, I picked up the tab without saying anything (she didn't say anything either--didn't thank me either). Then we parted (again, after more than 2 hours on the first, lunch, date). And here I think I had another bad (?) sign: we shook hands (I think at her initiative). Now, I didn't expect to kiss her in broad day light on the first date, but shaking hands seems like a friend's gesture to me...

Wow she has strong opinions about immaturity, yet she doesn't have any integrity? She didn't even offer to throw in some cash for the tab, she didn't even say thank you and then the cherry on the dessert, a fuvking hand shake? I agree, a full on make-out session is probably out of the question on a first date, but a fuvking handshake?? LOL So basically you spent $30-40, had to listen to the chick rabble mainly rabble about herself and her exbf's for 2 and half hours and all you got was a fuvking handshake? LOL Stop being blinded by your high interest in her!! She's a dud!!

I said I enjoyed myself and "let's do this sometime again" She said "keep in touch". So I asked if I should email or call her (remember I still haven't called her, since we met directly at the place). She said email is "fine."

When you take a ****, do you ask your toilet if its ok for you to drop a deuce? That's what I thought! Why on earth would you ask her if you should email or call? That's an AFC question and yet another bullet to your soon to be wounded heart. You got her #, you call when you want, end of story!


POST-FIRST DATE
The bottom line on my end: I want to see this woman again. We share many interests. She loves art, (teaching) children, and animals (she said these are the 3 biggest interests of hers). She is, again, gorgeous (way better than the already nice pictures). She's also quite refined and classy (maybe it's the dress!--but no her attitude, too). We also have similar career goals (both wanting to be teachers).

You want to see this woman again because your DESPERATE!! Your not talking to any other girls, so her value increases exponentially by default. Tons of people have similar interest, but they're not a good match. She's refinded and classy?? Hmmm, did you selectively forget how she didn't even at least offer to throw some cash in for the tab? Or how she was suddenly tongue-tied when it came time to say two simple words "thank you"? That's not classy bro, that's you putting this pu$$y on a pedestal.


Now my friends, I hope you will give me some advice *based on the realities of the situation as I have described them as objectively as possible*. I think some potentially good signs are: we share a lot of interests; we made lots of eye contacts; the conversation flowed almost effortlessly for 2 hours, and she did most of the talking; she said "keep in touch" at the end; also, before the date she already said her weekends are flexible so she's giving me the best dating time period. Some potentially bad signs are: she didn't ask me a lot of questions (and I know much more about her from our conversation and her website than she knows about me); she shook my hands at the end; she didn't say call me when i asked email, or calling; she talked about her ex's (2 of them, one on friendly terms--the guy with animals; and 1 just cut off contacts with her entirely and she seemed to be bitter/sad about it); also, she seemed not to have gotten over her ex yet (the one who cut off contacts).

 

[Pimp-sicle]

I'm giving you the exact advice "based on the realities of the date" and where you currently stand! I'm being blunt and honest with you whether you like it or not. This girl is not interested in you romantically, AND you would be wasting your time and more money by going out with her again.

QUESTIONS (in search of answers/comments/suggestions):
1. Based on what I've described, did you think the date go well from her point of view (I think it went well--though not spectacular--for me)? What do you think of the overall situation? Is it going alright so far?

The date went well on her part in the sense that she got a free meal, got to vent about all her problems and didn't have to give up anything. She'll go out with you again if you ask her but the problem is she'll expect a you to kiss her ass again and pay for her ****!

2. I'm determined to ask her out again, so now the question is WHEN to write back? Our date was on Saturday. When should I write to her again? Should I just say I had a nice time and made some small talk and wait for another day to ask her out? Or should I go ahead and ask her out in an email? How long should I wait to write to her? (Actually we carried on very well in our email messages so I don't mind emailing--that's what I prefer actually, though I don't know whether not wanting me to call is a bad sign as I think it is). HOW should I proceed from now on?

This clearly shows that you have no clue, but its ok everyone has to learn at somepoint. Like I said above, asking her out again is only going to TATTOO your fate in the friend zone! If you still don't get it, ask yourself this question. Why would a girl who has high interest in a guy ask him to e-mail her rather than call? Ready for the answer....because she doesn't have high interest!!

3. If I get a second date (I hope I do!), what activities or places should I go? Please suggest some dating activities/plans that have worked well for you before. Should I buy her flowers on a second date?

I'm not going to even respond to this question because you said two terrible things here!

1) "I hope I do" in reference to a second date
2) Should I buy her flowers?

4. I guess I'm thinking ahead of myself. I still haven't contacted her in any way. Again, when should I write to her again and what should I say?

A confident man is a successful man. He contacts girls whenever he feels like it, he doesn't have to follow strict rules or guidelines because he understands that while most women display common behavior traits when it comes to dating, each situation is different. In other words, if you successful create attraction, you can call her the next day or in 8 days and she'll be dying to see you. Of course you want to use common sense, but I think you get the point.

THANK YOU SO MUCH! I look forward to your comments/suggestions.[/QUOTE]



If you think I'm being harsh on you, its for a reason. I'm trying to give you some tough love. There are too many people here who sugar coat their response (just like you did when she told you about her staying in contact with her ex) and lead the person down the wrong path. You need to realize all the mistakes you made and go read the Bible!!! The longer you stay mesmorized by this *****, the harder you will fall!!




PIMP

 

[julym]

PIMP, thanks so much for taking the time and for being straightforward. I think I agree with you--I did quite a few things wrong and acted silly on several issues. I definitely shouldn't have asked if I should email or call--and just call! (I'm a good writer but not a good verbal communicator at all, that's partly why I prefer email--but I understand that it's not a good sign if she wants me to email). On the other hand, she seemed pretty AFC herself--telling me that her weekends are flexible and wearing such a gorgeous dress to lunch (it wasn't an upscale restaurant but it's a good dating restaurant--she picked that one too). Surely she must have a certain level of interest?

I hope you're wrong Pimp, otherwise I have to start all over again. And you're right, I'm not seeing other women (but neither is she, as far as I can tell). But it could be that she just emerged from a relationship hurt and is a little timid about men?

Yes, I need to read the DJ Bib. But I must confess, at this point at least, I can't get this woman out of my head! (Should I watch porn to divert my attention? hahaha)

 

[Pimp-sicle]

July: Men were genetically programmed to led and take control! Society has slowly but surely pussified men over the years and changed the way most of the current generation acts around women.

The fact that your putting so much stock in a woman, who you met off a dating site of all places is not good! If your in person conversational skills need work, then don't avoid it!! Work on it!! Your going to have to take your scrapes and bruises just like the rest of us! Think of it this way. The quicker you learn, the sooner YOU will be the one who is in control of these situations rather than the other way around.

It will not be beneficial to you to pursue anything with this girl based off what has already happened. However, sometimes a person has to experience things first hand until they really "get it."


Good luck, keep us updated.


PIMP