Possible LTR?

Bronxtal112

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Hi all...

So I'm currently dating someone (shes 26) for last month or so. I see her about once a week, talk on the phone a couple times a week, and enjoy each others company when together. No red flags yet from her.

After a month of taking this girl out, I want to pursue a long term relationship with her. Whats even more crazy is I think I'm falling in love with her. I do not know her true feelings yet on anything. Her actions always speak much louder than what she tells me though.

I really don't wanna set myself up for a heartache here.. Any thoughts?
 

wjh

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Pretty standard issue.

Let her bring up the LTR.

If she doesn't, her IL isn't as high as you think.

A girl with high IL will pursue a LTR pretty aggressively.

I don't recommend being in a LTR with a girl without high IL.
 

jophil28

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Bronxtal112 said:
I do not know her true feelings yet on anything. Her actions always speak much louder than what she tells me though.


QUOTE]

Two things here before an LTR.

You wrote that you do not know her true feelings yet. Does that mean that she has not articulated her IL in you, but you are ASSUMING that she likes you because her "actions" say so ? What actions ?

Secondly are you sleeping with her ?.
 

Bronxtal112

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jophil28 said:
Bronxtal112 said:
I do not know her true feelings yet on anything. Her actions always speak much louder than what she tells me though.


QUOTE]

Two things here before an LTR.

You wrote that you do not know her true feelings yet. Does that mean that she has not articulated her IL in you, but you are ASSUMING that she likes you because her "actions" say so ? What actions ?

Secondly are you sleeping with her ?.

jophil,

When I say I do not know her true feelings I mean verbal. She can't keep her hands off of me when we are together etc... Also, I am NOT sleeping with her yet.

More on the whole sleeping bit, she's a traditional girl to the T, no pun intended. Also catholic. Not sure when to make that move also, very confused here. Funny how the sleeping bit led into my next question.
 

#41

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Bronxtal112 said:
When I say I do not know her true feelings I mean verbal. She can't keep her hands off of me when we are together etc... Also, I am NOT sleeping with her yet.

More on the whole sleeping bit, she's a traditional girl to the T, no pun intended. Also catholic. Not sure when to make that move also, very confused here. Funny how the sleeping bit led into my next question.
If she isn't having sex with you, her feelings are being made pretty clear about whether or not she wants a LTR with you.
 

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jophil28

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#41 said:
If she isn't having sex with you, her feelings are being made pretty clear about whether or not she wants a LTR with you.
She has high IL, you want an LTR with her, she has traditional values ( read 'morals' and 'ethics'). OK, so far so good.
So it would APPEAR that both of you are on the same page.
Where is the problem here ?

I see no obstacle here. However,you do need to place her on "probation" for a decent time - say three months in which she demonsrates her suitability.
BE vigilant during that time.

The dealbreakers are -
Repetitive incongruent actions.
Significant disrespect ( this covers a wide range of common female behaviors including cheating,lying. putting someome else ahead of you, latecoming and tardiness, selfishness ...)
Drug and alcohol use.
Falling IL.

Women are expert actresses.
Remember that the wrapping rarely indicates the contents.

Enjoy your new woman.
 

Jitterbug

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It's pointless to think about pursuing a LTR when you don't even know whether you're gonna be sexually compatible. Don't hastily sign yourself into such a commitment. It's not fair for both of you.
 

window

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Jitterbug said:
It's pointless to think about pursuing a LTR when you don't even know whether you're gonna be sexually compatible. Don't hastily sign yourself into such a commitment. It's not fair for both of you.
Jophil, how do you deal with his behaviour, do you try and correct it or move on...
 

window

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jophil28 said:
Significant disrespect ( this covers a wide range of common female behaviors including cheating,lying. putting someome else ahead of you, latecoming and tardiness, selfishness ...)QUOTE]

sorry meant this one
 

Mr. Me

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I do not know her true feelings yet on anything. Her actions always speak much louder than what she tells me though.
Her actions are what tell you her feelings. Words can lie. They can mislead. Words can tell you what they think you want to hear. Some people aren't expressive. Actions are what to watch.

But after a month of dating this girl once a week, you've been face to face with her for... what? 16 or so hours? Don't fall in love so hard, so fast, you don't know her. Immense Like, okay... BUT be careful here. This is where men start to let their guard down, when their feelings get involved.

We know you want a relationship, but it only works when she wants one too. So you must let her bring it up. You can not rush it. If you bring it up, then she has to decide on the spot, "Do I want to be exclusive with this man? Am I willing to forsake all others?" If she's not completely sure and ready for that, she'll beg off. Right now, she's liking how it's going. For her, it's only been 16 hours or so too.

So why push? Let nature do its thing.

If she wants it, she'll bring it up when she's ready. "What are we?" or "where is this going?" or some such topic is what she'll ask you. Then you'll KNOW she wants the relationship. You won't have to wonder. Make her come to you. Keep doing what you're doing.
 

jophil28

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window said:
jophil28 said:
Significant disrespect ( this covers a wide range of common female behaviors including cheating,lying. putting someome else ahead of you, latecoming and tardiness, selfishness ...)QUOTE]

sorry meant this one
If any of these behaviors emerge in the first three months or so - get the hell out . Dump her.THis is the period of foggy sexual zanyness when both sides are having a great time, BUT also on their best behavior. IF a serious breach of respect occurs during this time then I read that as her inability to hold up her "fun facade" against the force of some underlying and significant mental disorder. The crap breaks though.

An example- I had a woman in my life a few years ago who was great for the first month and then one day she just canceled out on a big local charity ball that she agreed to attend with me the day prior. She watched me buy two tickets one night, and then called me the next day and bailed because her "sister was having a party on the same night down the shore."
THAT should have been a dealbreaker ( it would be today ) but I tolerated her flakiness and it got crazier and more bizarre with every passing week.
Her real character was revealing itself.

Another example - I visited my G./f of two months a few years back and we did some nice sex in her big bed. Her cell rang as she got out of bed to go to the bathroom. She picked up and walked out of the room and down the hall while chatting to some other guy. She made a date to meet him the next evening one minute after squealing and sweating with me ..
Of course she claimed later that he was "just a friend" .

These actions are intolerably bad - dealbreakers of the first order. There is no negotiation with a woman who pulls these stunts.
 

Mr. Me

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we were hanging out one night, she asked me "What I was thinking". At the time I said nothing, I really didnt really wanna tell her how I felt just yet. Was this a cue to tell her how I feel? Should I bring it up again?
When a gal asks you "What are you thinking?", it's usually because she can't read you.

This is GOOD. Women easily read men, because men are easy reads. When they encounter a guy they can't read, it's so unusual for them that they don't know what to do except to be direct and ask in order to get their answer.

No, it's not any cue to start spilling your feelings. DON'T EVER spill your feelings. That makes you look like a wuss. Even if she asks you to tell her your feelings DON'T FALL FOR IT.

Your best answer is a funny remark.

You have this need to vent your emotions, which is normal. Let me tell you however, that five minutes after you experience the relief from venting, you'll need to vent again. And again and again.

That's because your emotions will keep producing feelings that you'll feel you need to vent.

As a man, you have to be able to control your emotions. That doesn't mean not to have any, but it does mean being able to contain them. Not containing them is a feminine trait, which is why women claim to like it (they say they want a "sensitive man"), but when given one, will put him squarely into the Friend Zone (because he acts like a girl friend instead of a man).

I don't know all of what you're doing, but whatever you're doing is enough to make her want to put her hands all over you, and that's great stuff! That's why you want to keep it going the way it is - or do better. I'll tell you how to make it better.

Understand that part of the reason why she's becoming more interested in you is that, so far, you've only been dating her ONCE a week and you haven't slept with her or put pressure on her to get into bed. Most guys will try to get in several dates a week right away, try to bang her, and BOOM her interest level drops like a rock because of the overexposure.

You're seeing the benefits of going slowly. You're being a challenge, not predictable like the other guys.

Seeing her only once a week gives her days to think about you, for you to dwell on her mind FAVORABLY as she recounts your last date together where she had FUN. She talks to her GFs about you ("do you think he likes me?") Then, because of all this, she looks forward to seeing you again.

So what you've been doing has been making her more interested, and you could probably make her even more interested:

What I'd do is not get into calling her several times a week. Just call her once a week, and keep it short, arrange the date and be the first one to end that call.

Then I wouldn't be taking her out on a weekend night until she inquiries about your availability for a weekend night date. IOW, she has to work her way toward you and by doing so, show her interest.

Well, you may already have taken her out on weekend nights and such, so my suggestion would be to think in terms of going slow, step by step, giving her the onus of progressing the relationship.

Just keep your times together FUN and LAUGHS. No heavy relationship talk.

About sex: Yeah, I know that most guys' mentality here is to bang the chick a.s.a.p., that it's all about getting some. Well, there are gals good for that, but if you're looking for a keeper, you don't really want a gal you banged on the first date (yeah I know lots of relationships start that way, but that doesn't mean they're the best more often than not.) You want to be the special not-typical guy she realizes stands apart from the pack of horny men who are driven by their d1cks. You're showing her that you have self-control, mastery over yourself. How cool that you haven't vented your feelings like some puppy dog panting at her leg like all the other guys! Don't you see all this makes her want you more?

Sex will come. She'll be so driven by desire that she'll likely initiate. You should see this happening within a couple of months or so (which is maybe within about 10 dates @ once per week?) Again, she's coming to YOU, showing her hand.

I know 10 dates is too much for many guys to wait for sex (even with the benefit of driving the gal insane with desire for you). Again, I say this: I'm out with a girl not to bang her today anyway, but just to have a fun time for now and see if she's the kind of person I want around me. I'll get to have sex with her, and when I do, she'll be nuts about me and it's usually great sex. In the meantime, if I need to get laid that badly, I'll call a FB.

Just read the countless threads started by guys who get sexually involved straight away with flakes, psychos, drama queens, girls who disrespect them, girls who have issues. They post about their chaos, and then they go out and do it all over again, thinking this time it will be different or worse, they end up in a relationship with the psycho and post about their problems. But it usually never gets better. So they got their d1ck wet. Big deal. I want a great gal that is all over me and can't think of anyone else. Girls with problems, I don't need those in my life.

And what if the sex turns out to be not great? Just as with any other aspect of a relationship, if it's really that unsatisfactory, you can always end the relationship.

Just keep going slow and watching for red flags. Another few weeks of dating and she'll probably ask to see you more often and that's when you can give her a "I have to think about it" and see if she makes her move.
 

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I really don't wanna set myself up for a heartache here


This irrational fear is all too common.


So you think the alternative, meaning either being alone, or only being in loveless, uncaring FB situations is preferable?


While 'losing' a partner, or not having the fulfillment of the LTR manifest can be sad, you need to develop the right emotional perspective and investement.
In addition to just having the actual emotional strength to move forward in life.

Where does YOUR strength lie?





If she 'rejects' you, then that is a good thing. It means she's not a match for you.
So no love lost.

And if she accepts you, in this mindset you have, you will be dependent on HER for YOUR emotional state.
You are still seeking her acceptance and approval.

You need to let those go.

THAT is the source of your heartache, not the woman.
 

Interceptor

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DON'T EVER spill your feelings
This is very good advice for men who cannot communicate well in a masculine manner to women.


Yes, if you cannot express yourself without coming across as an insecure wuss bag, by all means do not express your feelings.

But be prepared for the backlash.


She will not trust you.

(many of you will say "But I dont care if she trusts me! I dont give a sh*t!!" and thats not healthy at all, especially with your GF.)

She will pay you lip service if she moves forward with you. The minute you show ANY little sign of weakness or insecurity she will be gone in seconds. And this also goes for losing your cool, throwing tempter tantrums, etc...

She will be constantly watching you, living in anxiety not knowing who you really are.
And dump your ass the minute you slip, IF she is healthy, with high self esteem, and a non dysfunctional woman. In other words, the "Quality" woman you've always dreamed about.


And you will be juggling your responses carefully like a sweaty, nervous surgeon...since you can never be yourself for fear of losing her.



And by doing this you will continualy avoid just HOW to communicate effectively with your GF in a strong, masculine manner that commands respect.


AND...
to top it all off, by never 'spilling' your feelings, you give her so much importance that you have to censor every thought you have just to 'keep' her interested in you.

Your 'YOU' is simply not good enough.



So, yeah, if expressing your feelings always comes across as an AFC wussbag's 'spilling his guts' to her every chance he gets, it's better to just change the topic quickly before she finds out who you really are....

EDIT: Reached my post limit.
Yes, for AFCs they must have rules to follow. But once a man is secure with himself, he doesnt need to follow an AFCs rules to the letter hardcore. Second, I also believe in saying the right thing, at the right time and place, to the right person. Meaning, in certain situations , like telling the 'boss you hate his guts' is NOT what we're talking about here. However, if we were TRULY going to transcend this, then we woudl move to NEVER have a 'boss' , period. We wouldnt have to censor ourselves or live disingenuinely, especially for material gain.It is important to not have to 'think' before every response, because that means you are micro managing the external, rather than operating from your frame and reality. I feel it is important to make these distinctions.

Be careful of women paying you lip service to over 'mysteriousness'. And 'ACTING" as IF, yet, at the same time emotionally detached from you. So being too concerned with her reactions to you and over avoidance is not a good balance anyway.
For many women it can be perceived as simply being too insecure to ever give a straight answer.
So yes, she may move forward physically, but she may never truly surrender to a stranger. Think about this.
Judicious sharing of your personal information comes from the good balance in knowing WHEN to say something and HOW to say it.
 
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Tell her a little about yourself, but not too much. Maintain some mystery. Give her something to think about and wonder about when she's at home.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

Mr. Me

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So, yeah, if expressing your feelings always comes across as an AFC wussbag's 'spilling his guts' to her every chance he gets, it's better to just change the topic quickly before she finds out who you really are....
Which is the case for most guys here, which is why they're here.

My post was rather lengthy as it was, and for me to detail everything about everything would require a volume of books. So I only wrote what was pertinent to him and his situation at this time.

Suffice it to say that in the beginning stages of dating, which he has had merely 4 dates, one does not express deep feelings without running the common risk of chasing off the gal (unless she's VERY needy). Therefore, I wrote he should never express his feeling toward her.

Once in a relationship however, a man should express his feelings every now and then, rather than "never". But it should be scarce rather than on auto pilot several times a day. Saying "I love you" really has been so trivialized in this world to where it means nothing. Women hear it from every guy and then they're mistreated. Guys hear it from their cheating girlfriends. People parrot it back and forth: "I love you", "I love you tooooo!" People are so used to saying it, they almost utter it to their workmates on a telephone call as they hang up!

So choose to SHOW feelings to a woman via your actions, rather than your words.

you give her so much importance that you have to censor every thought
No, this is about thinking before opening your mouth. Why don't you tell your boss that you hate his guts while you're thinking it? Because it's not a smart move. Why chance scaring off a woman in the early stages of dating because you feel you're falling in love? Why noty excercise a little self-control instead and kick back, enjoy what you have and see what happens with it and permit it to grow instead of having to spew out every thought, every emotion you have? Where is it written that one has to make known every thought anyway?

But be prepared for the backlash. She will not trust you.
That's not been my experience. In my experience she will continue to wonder if you like her. Last time this happened to me, I said to her, "No, I don't like you at all. That's why I'm here!" winked and she loved it and it never came up again. It's called "charm".
 

Bronxtal112

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Interceptor said:
Judicious sharing of your personal information comes from the good balance in knowing WHEN to say something and HOW to say it.
I kind of see what your saying here man. See when she asked me what I was thinking, I returned with "Nothing, what about you". Her response was I asked you first. Ofcourse, my response was "I see how it is."

Does this relate to what your trying to convey inter.

P.S. Thnx to everyone for the replies.
 

decades

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You fall in love "too easy". that's where guys get into trouble. You don't know her yet. You Can't possibly know enough about her to be in LUV! with her after such a short time. It's one of the biggest red flags out there. It means something "too good to be true" is going on. Get to know her first THEN fall in love. Don't get this backwards.
 
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Interceptor said:
This is very good advice for men who cannot communicate well in a masculine manner to women.


Yes, if you cannot express yourself without coming across as an insecure wuss bag, by all means do not express your feelings.
Maybe it's a good idea to outline how masculine communication of feelings is done. (And with feelings, we don't mean professing your love for her! :nono: ;) ).

A man communicates his feelings, his hurt, in a manner that shows that it may have got to him, but he's not phased by it. Something that happened to him that was bad, but the way he talks about it shows he's kept it outside of himself. It may have gotten to him for a moment or while, but it doesn't control his life. He can deal with it. He knows the solution. The way out.

That's masculine communication: when a man shows that he can deal with things as he faces them. It's not about being literally a stoic, unmovable rock who's hurt by nothing, nobody's like that (those who are, are likely DEAD), it's all about being someone who can deal with life and not let life deal him anything he doesn't want or likes. That's a man.

Insecure wussbag communication usually comes down to complaining, bashing, whining about why things are the way they are and complaining about it instead of DOING something about it. Insecure wussbags are like women who just need to vent their frustration and not look for a solution. If you vent to a woman, you're not the man she might come to see as the one SHE can lean on, but just another girlfriend indeed that comes to HER to vent her frustrations at to feel better. That's not a man's job.

Being a man is all about being someone others can build on (without being taken advantage of) and not having disrespect reduce him to a shadow of his former self. That's what attracts a woman to you, because that's what they are NOT. Generally speaking. ;)


So, it's okay to open up. Just do it in a reserved manner. Don't spill yourself like a bucket that held too much water. Just little drops. Don't be too serious, hurt or phased. A girl is not your mother or father. Intermix with humour and jokes, also in a self-deprecating manner, that show you can see the relatvity of it all and don't take life and yourself so seriously. People will see you as a god on earth if you are like that and guess what? You'll be one indeed. ;)

It's also okay to be genuinely hurt. Even crying does not misfit a man. As long as he's not acting like a needy little puppy that needs his mommy, or a little boy that cries over the littlest slight. A silent tear or choking of your voice as you relate the death of your loved brother or sister for example, someone you were VERY close with, that's mighty powerful and people will only respect you massively for it. Crying over a dead dog is something only boys do, for example, and nobody will really think much of you if you do. They'll just see someone who can't handle life.

Anyway, if you do communicate your feelings this way, women will see you as someone who can share his feelings, something they just LOVE. The difference is, you're sharing it the emotionally powerful MASCULINE way, and not the wussy, feminine way. That's why they love it so. ;)



NOTE: this mindset isn't something you can or SHOULD fake! If you can't naturally communicate the wrongs in your life this way (I say wrongs, because communicating like an insecure wussbag is usually about WRONGS, good feelings are easy to communicate in an upbeat manner), then something's awry with your self-esteem and self-image imho, and you'll need to work on that instead of seeking consolance with women.

Masculine communication CANNOT be FAKED. If you do, you're just HIDING yourself, you WILL become unhappy and you ARE just prolonging the inevitable DOWNFALL of yourself in a mental sense of the word.


Also: Mind you that it's easy to slip into the psychiatrist attitude if you're relating feelings. I.e. listening to her relating her feelings and hurt AND stimulating too much talk about it, asking detailed questions, offering help and such and such. Such things are only reserved for when you have an established long-term relationship already. And I mean REALLY long-term. In the early phases, you're NOT eachothers therapist.

Communication serves ONLY to get to know eachother, so keep your secrets. Keep coming back to upbeat talk and humour. Spice UP life, don't make it a pool of negative emotions you swim in that drags you DOWN. Nobody likes that. If you're dealing with a woman who can ONLY relate her negative feelings or does so a lot, then you're maybe dealing with someone you don't want to be with. Someone with issues and a vexed view on life perhaps.


Also note that the crying is a no-no while dating, in case anyone might take that passage about it as a carte-blanche to weep his guts out on the second date. :p No. That's reserved purely for the really long-term LTR. ;)


So, DON'T spill like a bucket that needs to unload. Calm, reserved, careful disclosure that shows you are in control of yourself and your life, which you can take a little further everytime things progress. Keep it well-blended with humour and jokes. But only if you genuinely and naturally can. Otherwise: work on yourself. ;)

At least, that's my opinion on it. Back on topic then. :)
 

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I think Alexander expressed what I meant.
I think women are either attracted or replused by the way we MOVE THROUGH the WORLD.

They either feel attracted or repulsed by the MANNER and METHODS we employ in dealing with emotions and circumstances.


DO we throw temper tantrums?

Do we get OVER emotional and start crying and whimpering?

Do we get overly angry and defensive at the mere appearance of an offense?

Do we get TOOOOOOOO "lovey dovey" with woman we BARELY EVEN KNOW???


Self Love, Self Acceptance, and Self Respect are the FOUNDATIONS to building our values.

In addition, they add more down to earth expectations of people and WHO they are.
Thus, one can self calibrate much more easily.



A lot of this stuff comes from not having a role model, and a relationship that one can draw experience from.
We learn a lot from our parents.
And another thing, is that if we've disconnected from our masculinity.
With no role models, a lot of guys find it difficult.
So they feel vague, and unsure.
In addition, since a lot of these guys have little social skills, and poor social calibation, they are maladjusted. So they say and do the wrong things at the wrong time.

It can be tough.

The 'overly romantic' notion permeates a lot of guys thinking. Hollywood movies, and media can be very influential.
So guys grow up with the illusory projections on the world.

"Nerdy guy always gets the girl after giving her flowers abnd confessing his undying live for her...."

Things like that are very pervasive. (Im not saying that can never happen)

But it does not often translate into the real world.



Men and women have essentially the same biological systems as thousands of years ago.

If we concentrate on that, I think men would be better served than Hollywood or typical media fantasies.



Theres nothing wrong with romance.

But it can come across as unattractive when miscalibrated.

And truthfully, part of the reason why I sometimes dont outline specific factors like in a method ("Well, REAL Men DO THIS, and fake men do that. SO to be a Real MAN DO THIS AND THIS AND THIS, etc etc "), is that many guys take in the words, but do not integrate what they mean.
So often, more words dont help. (They can "DO", but the thing is they must BE.)
If they did, they wouldve helped in the first place.
Men have to go out and find out on their own.
We can only be a sort of guide to them.
 
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