Plate Spinning vs APPRECIATION

[wjh]

I don't know. I think Francisco asks questions in a certain way in order to get you to really think about what you're asking in the first place and to "own" the question or comment you're making.

I'm almost certain he does this.

Whether or not he has a self-inflated ego is irrelevant.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

First I think you should take what Mike said as feedback and not try to spin it as others being in the wrong. Ironically that's another assertion you make, that guys don't take ownership for their "issue".

To answer your question that's been answered several times already, I don't personally do anything that makes women take me for granted. That was my point, showing appreciation, especially too much too soon, validates the girl. Since I believe validating a girl is counterproductive, I don't do it. Therefore, I don't get taken for granted.

Do I really have to define all the ways a guy can express appreciation? To give a few examples appreciation could be verbalizing her attractiveness, or any of various compliments, or showing an interest in her in various ways. And do I really need to explain the concept of validation to someone who's not even a newb?

If you disagreed with my premise that expressing appreciate cause the woman to be validated, then that one thing and fine. Support your argument then. But when you are abrasive, make it personal and keep asking the same question, then that's a different thing.

Dude, this is what you said:

What I find amusing or not so amusing really is the more you appreciate a girl the more she takes you for granted. It's one of the main reasons why "plate spinning" can increase females' attraction.

All I asked was what do you do to make you come to that conclusion. I never said that you were wrong, I just wondered what would cause that to happen; that's it. You ignored it so I brought it up again. And if I was was going to be abrasive, I would have called you a name first. Hell, I would have just called you a name period.

 

[eyedogg]

BINGO!

Reset hit on the nail. If more foolio's would start REALLY LISTENING to what Francisco is asking, they would get the answers/advice readily being dispensed alot faster. And, most of these answers/advice are great! It's ridiculous how lately folks are acting like wussies when they come here seeking advice, which to do so requires thorough details, so when asked they get all defensive and AFC.

Dont ask, if you are not ready to answer specific and detailed questions. And dont bite the hand that feeds you. The "feedback" was more an insult from some. True "feedback" is prefaced and factual.

My two cents.

eyedogg

 

[guru1000]

Enough with the CAT FIGHT. Let's get to the topic at hand. Do any PLATE SPINNERS here feel they have lost the norm APPRECIATION they had once felt during scarcity?

Would you rather be SCARCE with confidence and appreciation, then having tangible options with confidence and no appreciation ?

Moderation is my choice.

 

[eyedogg]

Nope - not I!

After reading a few threads about plate spinning here. I applied the approach of only "doing things" that could be appreciated to the ones that "showed" me by action that they deserved more. By doing that I felt more confidence and true appreciation.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Nope - not I!

After reading a few threads about plate spinning here. I applied the approach of only "doing things" that could be appreciated to the ones that "showed" me by action that they deserved more. By doing that I felt more confidence and true appreciation.

If you're going to spin plates, that's how you do it. It's how you weed out the wobbly, unbalanced plates. Plus you can usually pick out the ones that are going to crash to the floor and shatter; you can step safely out of the way before it happens.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Have a quick read of this article:

100 Dates

Yes, I realize this is standard Oprah fare, but here is a prime example of a woman spinning plates - in fact 100 of them.

She's thankful for what she learned along the way, and for all the men she dated, saying, "They certainly taught me to appreciate the man who, in the end, answered not only my ad, but my dreams."

Yeah, that's the obligatory romantic comedy buy line, but here you have a woman spinning plates to get to a point of appreciation. This is my point. Without the experience, without the education that spinning plates affords a person, male or female, you don't get a point of really appreciating someone with LTR potential. Too many people think that non-exclusivity is some hedonistic pursuit to bang as many women as possible; this is NOT the function of Plate Theory. It can certainly be a byproduct of it if you choose, but in being uncommitted and weighing multiple options you retain the ability to maneuver yourself into situations that are not only in your own best interest, but because of your experience benefit anyone you do end up in an LTR with.

 

[MacAvoy]

Have a quick read of this article:

100 Dates

Yes, I realize this is standard Oprah fare, but here is a prime example of a woman spinning plates - in fact 100 of them.

She's thankful for what she learned along the way, and for all the men she dated, saying, "They certainly taught me to appreciate the man who, in the end, answered not only my ad, but my dreams."

Yeah, that's the obligatory romantic comedy buy line, but here you have a woman spinning plates to get to a point of appreciation. This is my point. Without the experience, without the education that spinning plates affords a person, male or female, you don't get a point of really appreciating someone with LTR potential. Too many people think that non-exclusivity is some hedonistic pursuit to bang as many women as possible; this is NOT the function of Plate Theory. It can certainly be a byproduct of it if you choose, but in being uncommitted and weighing multiple options you retain the ability to maneuver yourself into situations that are not only in your own best interest, but because of your experience benefit anyone you do end up in an LTR with.

I find this totally funny, we get suppose GUYS on here suggesting that they only date ONE women at a time because they need to concentrate on one to make it work properly and its because its how they "feel".

Then we have women Oprah even suggesting that they date 100 women.

This only reinforces my LR: Role Reversal thread. I truly believe the roles have been swapped where the women are acting like men, and men are acting like women.

 

[guru1000]

Lessons Learned from Dating 100 Men

Taking that stand helped Ann realize when dates just weren't working out. "If [a man] clearly wasn't interested, then he was simply another woman's catch. I got out of her way. I knew I'd meet someone else tomorrow," she explained.

Another date taught Ann the value of honesty. After a date, she got an e-mail that read: "It was really nice to meet you, but I didn't feel that indescribable something that would tell me we're a match." Rather than feeling rejected, Ann felt liberated by the man's courage. Better yet, she stole the line and used it on another potential suitor!

By the time Ann met Johanne, she had trained herself to listen to her deepest instincts, and they told her he was a good match. "Johanne says he's more confident in my feelings for him," Ann explained, "knowing I looked long and hard to find him." She's thankful for what she learned along the way, and for all the men she dated, saying, "They certainly taught me to appreciate the man who, in the end, answered not only my ad, but my dreams."

Sounds like Ann has received alot of rejection in her dating. Her picture supports that. When she met Johanne, she finally received validation from a guy she was interested in.

Rejection hits home harder for a woman as if they are not even attractive enough to F*ck, what good are they? She probably latched on to the first guy who showed interest in her who was half-way attractive and called it APPRECIATION.

She apparently never spun plates as she never had many second dates. I call a PLATE starting from 2-4 dates.

Now if Ann was truly spinning between 3-4 plates consistently for a period of time and had these PLATES in order, would she have APPRECIATED Johanne?

 

[ketostix]

Sounds like Ann has received alot of rejection in her dating. Her picture supports that. When she met Johanne, she finally received validation from a guy she was interested in.

Rejection hits home harder for a woman as if they are not even attractive enough to F*ck, what good are they? She probably latched on to the first guy who showed interest in her who was half-way attractive and called it APPRECIATION.

She apparently never spun plates as she never had many second dates. I call a PLATE starting from 2-4 dates.

Now if Ann was truly spinning between 3-4 plates consistently for a period of time and had these PLATES in order, would she have APPRECIATED Johanne?

Yeah women can't handle rejection much. They have to rationalize it a way and make it the guy's fault. Just reject a girl for sex and watch her fade in realization she's truely powerless over you. BTW, women plate spin but it's not plate spinning that any guy would want to to do or be a part of. I woul say 2-4 dates would make a girl qualify for FB status at least, and that's how I would tend to classify a plate.

 

[guru1000]

Everyone has different intentions being Plate Spinning.

For low level DJ's or MEN with lower self confidence, building an army of plates will give you more options. Fake it till you MAKE it. This has been proven ten times over in various areas of life. With the fake confidence used to attain these plates, a GENUINE confidence is built from the RESULT of spinning multiple plates. With genuine confidence and a track record a new MAN is born.

Men with confidence spin plates for different reasons including but not limited to:

- being an AW
- Ego and Validation Maniac
- having disposable options at his whim
- avoiding scarcity in comparison to a man hedging his investments
- not a LTR thinker, marriage is not part of his plan
- multiple sex partners
- addictive personality
- was not planned

If a CONFIDENT man's initial purpose was to move into an LTR and decided to spin mutiple plates for any of the above reasons, he may take for GRANTED LTR candidates.

When a plate has high IL in you, she will present herself as an LTR candidate. She will be at your every whim. As a personal rule, I do not associate with a girl who shows LOW-MID IL. Too much work. If I have 3-4 high IL plates, why would I waste my time on a lower IL. If I was scarce, I would focus my energies on HIGH IL only.

A HB9-10, will more likely stick with the guy who is a challenge. Why? Because every guy is at her whim. The guy who presents himself as a challenge intrigues her. He catches her interest. This is the guy who she APPRECIATES because he doesn't supplicate and show high IL.

By only taking in high IL's , what I do essentially is cut out the CHALLENGES. This is where INTRIGUE and APPRECIATION is lost.

No one APPRECIATES what comes easy. This is why true success and appreciation is built over time.

 

[ketostix]

Everyone has different intentions being Plate Spinning.

For low level DJ's or MEN with lower self confidence, building an army of plates will give you more options. Fake it till you MAKE it. This has been proven ten times over in various areas of life. With the fake confidence used to attain these plates, a GENUINE confidence is built from the RESULT of spinning multiple plates. With genuine confidence and a track record a new MAN is born.

Men with confidence spin plates for different reasons including but not limited to:

- being an AW
- Ego and Validation Maniac
- having disposable options at his whim
- avoiding scarcity in comparison to a man hedging his investments
- not a LTR thinker, marriage is not part of his plan
- multiple sex partners
- addictive personality
- was not planned

If a CONFIDENT man's initial purpose was to move into an LTR and decided to spin mutiple plates for any of the above reasons, he may take for GRANTED LTR candidates.

When a plate has high IL in you, she will present herself as an LTR candidate. She will be at your every whim. As a personal rule, I do not associate with a girl who shows LOW-MID IL. Too much work. If I have 3-4 high IL plates, why would I waste my time on a lower IL. If I was scarce, I would focus my energies on HIGH IL only.

A HB9-10, will more likely stick with the guy who is a challenge. Why? Because every guy is at her whim. The guy who presents himself as a challenge intrigues her. He catches her interest. This is the guy who she APPRECIATES because he doesn't supplicate and show high IL.

By only taking in high IL's , what I do essentially is cut out the CHALLENGES. This is where INTRIGUE and APPRECIATION is lost.

No one APPRECIATES what comes easy. This is why true success and appreciation is built over time.

I got to say this post doesn't make any sense to me. I'm not sure how a man with low confidence is going to be able to attract multi-plates, I mean it's possible if like you said he could fake it convincingly, no small feat since words are generally the most powerful communicator. Then as you say he will gain genuine confidence. That makes sense in theory but in practice, I don't believe that's the way things usually work. Most people are unconfident for good reasons. I'm not saying that some people's confidence dips and raises, but I think the baseline level is pretty stationary unless a guy has a lot of postive feedback of a period of time.

Then you go on to describe a confident man doing something, namely plate-spinning, for reasons that were mostly based on having low confidence. It just seems contradictory. Besides a confident person with options could just choose the best options, meet the challenge, serial "date", that is, drop a plate any time he doesn't feel like she serves his purposes and move on to the next one. That's how most women really spin plates.

 

[guru1000]

I got to say this post doesn't make any sense to me. I'm not sure how a man with low confidence is going to be able to attract multi-plates, I mean it's possible if like you said he could fake it convincingly, no small feat since words are generally the most powerful communicator. Then as you say he will gain genuine confidence. That makes sense in theory but in practice, I don't believe that's the way things usually work. Most people are unconfident for good reasons. I'm not saying that some people's confidence dips and raises, but I think the baseline level is pretty stationary unless a guy has a lot of postive feedback of a period of time.

Which is it? It doesn't make sense to you or it makes sense in theory? RESULTS create confidence. In Practice which requires action, when you play the numbers game, it is not if or maybe, but GUARANTEED you will have a few plates CLOSED if you APPROACHED enough.

No one starts in life making a million the first day. But the PARADIGM OF WORTH is in play that first day. That PARADIGM combined with WORK ETHIC produces the result. Thoughts with behavior are TRANSMUTED into results. FAKE it till you make it means BELEIVE AND ACT, put in the work and surely the results will come.

Then you go on to describe a confident man doing something, namely plate-spinning, for reasons that were mostly based on having low confidence. It just seems contradictory.

Here were my reasons:

- being an AW
- Ego and Validation Maniac
- having disposable options at his whim
- avoiding scarcity in comparison to a man hedging his investments

Does this mean Donald Trump has low self confidence?

- not a LTR thinker, marriage is not part of his plan
- multiple sex partners
- addictive personality
- was not planned

Didn't know these were traits of low self confidence?

Besides a confident person with options could just choose the best options, meet the challenge, serial "date", that is, drop a plate any time he doesn't feel like she serves his purposes and move on to the next one. That's how most women really spin plates.

A confident man has choices and options. Whether he is spinning plates or serial dating does not reflect his confidence level.

 

[MikeYikes122]

I got to say this post doesn't make any sense to me. I'm not sure how a man with low confidence is going to be able to attract multi-plates, I mean it's possible if like you said he could fake it convincingly, no small feat since words are generally the most powerful communicator. Then as you say he will gain genuine confidence. That makes sense in theory but in practice, I don't believe that's the way things usually work. Most people are unconfident for good reasons. I'm not saying that some people's confidence dips and raises, but I think the baseline level is pretty stationary unless a guy has a lot of postive feedback of a period of time.

Then you go on to describe a confident man doing something, namely plate-spinning, for reasons that were mostly based on having low confidence. It just seems contradictory. Besides a confident person with options could just choose the best options, meet the challenge, serial "date", that is, drop a plate any time he doesn't feel like she serves his purposes and move on to the next one. That's how most women really spin plates.

I have to agree with ketostix.

I remember a while back people use to give advice on some of these forums to guys who were lacking confidence, telling them they should just fake confidence by doing and saying certain things. I think you can get away with that for a short period of time, but if a guy genuinely doesn't have any confidence it's going to show eventually. Even if a guy knows how to portray himself as confident, eventually his true colors will come out, and that will probably come some time after the first date or first sexual encounter he has with a girl. The date or hook-up will be a great experience, but he'll falter after that point and start worrying too much about her every action. His IL will be elevated extremely high and her's will likely only be at a medium or high level. He will care too much about her and won't be confident enough to play it cool in between dates.

The scene from Swingers comes to mind, when Jon Favreau's character confidently approaches the girl at the bar, plays it cool in front of her and gets her number. But when he gets home that night he freaks out about how long he is supposed to wait to call her and ends up calling her that night, only to make a complete a$$ out of himself.

That said, I think my ultimate feeling on this is that a guy who is lacking confidence can't even date one woman let alone spin plates. I think this is why a lot of guys on here tell new AFC posters to work on themselves by hitting the gym, picking up hobbies and finding their own identities before they go out and pursue women. The thought process behind this is that they'll build confidence and feel good enough about themselves that they can actually do things like spin plates.

 

[DavenJuan]

+

I have to agree with ketostix.

I remember a while back people use to give advice on some of these forums to guys who were lacking confidence, telling them they should just fake confidence by doing and saying certain things. I think you can get away with that for a short period of time, but if a guy genuinely doesn't have any confidence it's going to show eventually. Even if a guy knows how to portray himself as confident, eventually his true colors will come out, and that will probably come some time after the first date or first sexual encounter he has with a girl. The date or hook-up will be a great experience, but he'll falter after that point and start worrying too much about her every action. His IL will be elevated extremely high and her's will likely only be at a medium or high level. He will care too much about her and won't be confident enough to play it cool in between dates.

The scene from Swingers comes to mind, when Jon Favreau's character confidently approaches the girl at the bar, plays it cool in front of her and gets her number. But when he gets home that night he freaks out about how long he is supposed to wait to call her and ends up calling her that night, only to make a complete a$$ out of himself.

That said, I think my ultimate feeling on this is that a guy who is lacking confidence can't even date one woman let alone spin plates. I think this is why a lot of guys on here tell new AFC posters to work on themselves by hitting the gym, picking up hobbies and finding their own identities before they go out and pursue women. The thought process behind this is that they'll build confidence and feel good enough about themselves that they can actually do things like spin plates.

I think both points should be noted, however IMO

the "FAKE IT TIL' YOU MAKE IT" works .

dont misconstrue what this "method' is in place for. not to ACT as if you are something you are not, but it eventually becomes second nature.

going to the gym, finding new hobbies etc is also a good idea, however trying to get in front of people, not just women will also boost your confidence as well.

let me give you an example of how this works. (FAKE IT TIL' YOU MAKE IT)

I was a new licensed financial advisor and read books on the industry, watched others in meetings, invested myself so i knew what i was talking about. Unfortunately, ONLY with time will you begin to truely understand the industry.

however im just a young man new to the business. so ALL the knowledge that i had was irrelevant if i didnt have the CONFIDENCE to not only get in front of people, but also let them know that im CONFIDENT in what im talking about. If i didnt, i wouldnt get paid.

So i had to FAKE IT TIL I MADE IT. there were plenty of times when i wasnt 100 percent sure on what they wanted, plenty of times when i was challenged by consumers because of my age. and if i didnt FAKE THE CONFIDENCE when i was learning the industry, i wouldnt have been successful later.

same applies to this concept.

another thing to keep in mind is that it doesnt matter if he "fails" after getting the number/ hookup/ etc.

its the practice and the experience that he takes from each encounter. so if he does turn out like Favreau in swingers so be it. its a learning lesson.

the idea is that he got out there and did it.

 

[guru1000]

+

I think both points should be noted, however IMO

the "FAKE IT TIL' YOU MAKE IT" works .

dont misconstrue what this "method' is in place for. not to ACT as if you are something you are not, but it eventually becomes second nature.

going to the gym, finding new hobbies etc is also a good idea, however trying to get in front of people, not just women will also boost your confidence as well.

let me give you an example of how this works. (FAKE IT TIL' YOU MAKE IT)

I was a new licensed financial advisor and read books on the industry, watched others in meetings, invested myself so i knew what i was talking about. Unfortunately, ONLY with time will you begin to truely understand the industry.

however im just a young man new to the business. so ALL the knowledge that i had was irrelevant if i didnt have the CONFIDENCE to not only get in front of people, but also let them know that im CONFIDENT in what im talking about. If i didnt, i wouldnt get paid.

So i had to FAKE IT TIL I MADE IT. there were plenty of times when i wasnt 100 percent sure on what they wanted, plenty of times when i was challenged by consumers because of my age. and if i didnt FAKE THE CONFIDENCE when i was learning the industry, i wouldnt have been successful later.

same applies to this concept.

another thing to keep in mind is that it doesnt matter if he "fails" after getting the number/ hookup/ etc.

its the practice and the experience that he takes from each encounter. so if he does turn out like Favreau in swingers so be it. its a learning lesson.

the idea is that he got out there and did it.

I was ranked top 10 in stock brokerage in the 90's. The difference between a small and a big broker was the size of his trades. You don't start with huge trades. You start with the thought that you are a big broker. Walk the walk and talk the talk. When you BELIEVE it, so do the clients. Sure enough BELIEVING you are BIG, brings the results. Without BELIEF, you stay small.

Fake it till you make it is KEY. BELIEVE or STAY SMALL.