Philosophy, Who Needs It?

[icepick]

During the time from when we were born to the present, people have always given us advice pertaining to our life. Parents, teachers, and friends have tried to inform us what the correct way of action is. It is a search for the best philosophy, the most expedient course of action.

All this advice would fill up a room (in some cases a house) with pages and pages of advice and tips that you need (supposedly) to follow to make your life better.

This website is focused on women, so let us look in the "advice room" of the good ole AFC, under the topic of "Women"...

Originally Thought By The AFC Brain:

You are a wonderful person: nice, smart, caring, gentile; and any woman would be lucky to have you. You are a unique and special creature, but it is only natural for you to want a woman; after all, you are only a flawed human being.

Woman are much different then men. Women do not want sex. They only do it because men want to. They only put on makeup and wear nice clothes to 'look nice'. Some do this for power, because they know the weakness of men.

For you to 'hook up' with a woman, you must give them VALUE. There is no other way, because men are not sexually attractive. So you must have something to give to her IN RETURN for the great sex she gives to you. Therefore, you MUST be kind, affectionate, free with your money, and put up with her PMSing. Oh, and one other thing...an angry woman is MUCH worse then an angry man. Never mess with an angry woman.

There are men called 'players'. These men are great men. They must be because women get with them all the time. Why else would the woman get with them? These players sex many women because they have MUCH VALUE.

With this kind of 'philosophy' it is NO WONDER the AFC does not get chicks. With this philosophy, the woman is the measuring stick with which value is quantified. The man who gets the most chicks wins! Why do the women serve this perpose?

Because the AFC believs that women get no value from the sexuality of the man/woman interaction, therefore the value the woman recieves must be based on the CHARACTER of the man.

And so, the nice guys, being afraid to subjugate anyone, treat women as ASEXUAL BEINGS. Since they think that they should win by strength of character alone, they never persue.

Then they wonder why women treat THEM as asexual!

The insecure guys, not sure if they measure up to the 'strength of character' standards, never believe that any woman is interested in them. This then becomes reality.

But the 'jerks' (it is not fair to assign such a term), not being afraid to dominate, treat women as SEX OBJECTS, and in return, get treated like one. So, thier ego gets inflated higher and higher, and they think they have the 'answer'.

They don't.


Enter Don Juan


Don Juan then walks into the room. (Room fills with baby blue [baby blue?] light, sounds of orgasmic women fill the air.)

He begins to speak...(shhh, you there in the back, shut up!)

Women get wet when they see a guy who has no desperation. They are attracted to confidence in a man. When a man takes no shyt and is dominant and descisive, they get horny and want him. To make a woman want to have sex with you, you must have mystery. A woman loves a man that she learns about bit by bit. Be charismatic and charmful. This also turns her on. Remember to smile and have eye contact. This makes you more attractive.

"Wow, a goldmine!" shouts the AFC, "I will learn this and make it part of my being!"

"I will become much more attractive, and the women will want me!"

So, time passes, and the AFC eventually incorporates this into his 'philosophy'. Needless to say, the advice does work (just not for the reasons that he thinks it does) and the AFC ends up going through life obsessing about mystery, challenge, charisma, etc.

"I must be a man!" he shouts, "because that is what women want!" So, he trys to act (NO, not act, THINK) like the DJ techniques say, and eventually overdoes it. He trys to think like the techniques TELL him to think.

He gets sick of it, and he decides to dump his entire philosophy system in favor of a new one. He goes to see Don Juan...

 

[icepick]

A Conversation With The Don

"Don Juan, what is the correct philosophy? What is the true interplay between man and woman?"

Well, I don't know.

[Aghast]

"What?! Then what was all that stuff before about confidence, dominance, and mystery?"

Oh, my dear boy! What a misunderstanding we have come to. I was merely describing my interactions with women. What I said was not perscriptive, is was descriptive.

"So, what you said does not make me more attractive?"

[Laughing]

No, no. Besides changing your body or your clothes, nothing you can do will make you more attractive.

Puzzled
"So my techniques do not make me attractive? What about that whole Alpha-Male dynamic?"

No, no, no. The techniques do not make you more attractive. You ever had a girl 'run game' on you? What was the best thing that worked? Not the impress-you-with-my-great-attitude-and-ask-you-if-you-want-me approach, but the seductive and sexy look-into-your-eyes-and-take-you approach. The last one can not really be described, besides natural. Just see what you want, and do it. And as for the alpha-male thing, we are so obsessed with it because it is our model of what we aspire to be. Women do not see "alpha-male" and get hot, women see male and get hot when he approaches her sexually. Don't you get a hard-on when your girl looks at you in that certain way? The alpha-male gets laid because he is not afraid of taking what he wants, which is women, so he naturally gets more of them. He is not worried about the societys boundaries because his goal is to make them since he is the alpha male. The women welcome his advances because they like sex as much as we do.

Expierences Of Yours Truly


Back in my AFC days, I was very picky. A woman had to be almost perfect to roll with me. Now, I am not the best looking guy, but I am very outgoing, funny, and crazy. Naturally, I had a few women that tried to ask me out. Good looking girls too. So what happened?

I turned them down.

Why did I turn them down?

Psychguy would say that I was seeking validation due to my early teenage...wait...you say it Mr. Pshychologist.

You were seeking validation from the opposite sex. You were insecure about your appeal to the opposite sex due to your early teenage years being riddled with acne. Since your desire was not on women, but on the type and quantity of women you attracted, you turned them down because they had already shown you that they wanted you by asking you out. You had already won so there was no need to pursue her interests.

So, I turned down these nice, good, attractive women because...wait...what is that! Look, it is AFC icepick getting it on with some girl that he just met! OMG! And she is a slut! (The girl equivalent to a 'jerk') But he is renowned for his pickyness! How did this happen? Do tell icepick, do tell!

AFC icepick: "Uhh, I dunno why I did it."

The ladies rage and say to themselves: "Men are pigs! Of course he would go to the slut! Dirty wh0re! F*king b*tch! %$^%ing $#% ^&%^#ing #@$!!!" And they then proceed to stone the poor girl. (Women are so jealous sometimes!)

Wait

Someone raises thier hand. Look, they are from our site! A DJ, or so it seems.

I can answer that one! You had sex with her because she was a mystery. She did not talk very much about herself. She was also a challenge. You saw her flirting with other guys. She had confidence, she wasn't scared to get what she wanted. She was not desperate. And, finally, she smiled and kept eye contact with you.

Yeah, yeah. That seems about right. That is how she acted alright! Maybe it is true.

(Room fills with baby blue light, sounds of orgasmic women fill the air.)

Don Juan enters the fold. (Yet again.)

He begins to speak...(yet again)

Fools! People always completely understand everything except the point! The point being that sex feels good! You all know that! This is why he had sex with the girl. Oh, but you want to know: why THIS girl? It was THIS girl who saw what she wanted and was not afraid to just go for it. It was THIS girl who dove into sexuality head first and became SEXUAL around him, FORCING him to respond as a natural male of the species. It was THIS girl who did not take the initial rebuffs lightly, and persisted in the sexual atmosphere. For it only takes ONE to create the SPARK.

AFC icepick: "Yes, that makes sense! In my mind I knew that she was not perfect enough, but she kept at me with that LOOK and she talked to me in that VOICE and...I just couldn't help myself!"

Girl walks by AFC icepick, giving him THE EYES!

AFC icepick: "Yeeehaaa. Gotta go!"

Don Juan says his final words...

He will be back. Someday, he will be back.

Tables Turned?


Back in my AFC days, the girl had to run game on ME! I used to be the one trapped in the social boundaries. And let me tell you something, those girls that I ended up having sex with were not super gorgeous 9s and 10s. They were cute but not supermodels. But I thought they were DAMN SEXY! And the reason why was because they were natural.


My New Philosophy:

Rule #1: Forget all philosophy.

Rule #2: Follow what makes you happy, and don't follow what does not.

The End

My point in bringing up the story from my past was to show that women act the way they do because they are forced by society to be picky. I used to be very picky. (It almost shames me today.) And I acted like the stereotypical 'woman-that-goes-for-jerks'! Now men and woman are NOT the same, but there are some similarities. Sexuality is not made to inflame the ego. (So for all those out there who think they are so pimp for getting that '10' off in bed, stop. What say do you have in nature? None.) Most rejection is due to a social boundary, not lack of attractiveness. (I turned down plenty of chicks that I found attractive. Ever seen Seinfeld, I was more picky then Jerry and George!) What we are really doing as 'DJs' or whatever is improving our social form so that we won't hit those social boundaries head on, causing (ouch) pain.

A few members here have followed on the path that I have just described. Some think that they have it 'figured out' once they realize that all is nature and philosophy is not needed.

But there is something other then nature lurking in the real world.

It is society.

Society keeps us (and women) in check. We must now, as masters of nature, use the rules of society to our advantage.

For example. Let us take a basic 'speed seduction' principle of isolation. We know that society (girls friends) would not let the girl submit easily to your sexual advances (as much as she wants too!--the 'slut' factor) So, we know that we must isolate her, that is get her into a one-on-one situation where you can let your sexuality shine.

Another example is that you should not try to 'get with' your friend's girlfriends. If you do, you will certainly cause some bad blood between you and your comrades.

These generally hard and fast 'rules' of society are not natural. We do not 'know' by 'gut instinct' that what we are doing is antagonistic to society. Indeed, nature and society run opposite to each other. Letting our nature free, and cutting loose our fear, we must learn to 'fit in' to society using the rules as we see fit.

For many people only use fear to judge what to do in social situations. They think: "Oh, but I can't do that, what would people think?" One that has cast fear aside says: "I want to do it, so I will do it." But following that attitude will certainly put you at odds with police, your boss, etc. (I want that item so I will take it; I want to leave work, so I will leave now, etc.) The key is to find balance. How can this be done?

Experience

You must go out there and test these 'rules'. Hold them up to scrutiny and see if they work or not. You will run into some walls, but you will learn what works and what doesn't. Want to do something, do it, but watch what people do, so many are worried what others think. Who cares? You are not worried about what others think (that doesn't affect you), you need only worry about what they do (since that does affect you.)

Go out and live. But live smart.

And let your intuition be your guide, and fear your b*tch.

 

[ESPN]

good

 

[Mack Of All Trades]

You and me are so alike, icepick.


Excellent post. Definitely an eyeopener for many newbies.


Where are u from?

 

[alboh]

I think I may take a break from the forums for a while, unless I have an important question. I'm suffering from information overload.

When I go to a bar or see a hot girl on the street, my mind calls up a thousand different points on DJ'ism. I forget who I am, my own strengths, my own personality. I only think of the mythical DJ stereotype, and whether this is DJ or that is DJ. It's hurting my game badly.

 

[diplomatic_lies]

Here's my philosophy: I see women are part of the "happiness" factor in my life. Therefor, having a fulfilling LTR makes me happy. The resources spent on that LTR should be proportional to the ratio of happiness the girl provides in comparison to other areas of my happiness (having drinks with friends, getting a high score for a university transfer, making money, etc).


So if the woman provides a 15% proportion of happiness, I spend 15% of my "free time" for that, in between studying for college. And because spending time drinking with friends makes up around 20-25%, I spent that much time doing that with them. Playing a computer game makes up around 2-3%, TV makes up the 2-3%, and reading a book is around 4-5%, discussing/debating politics/social issues is around 2%.



Its a cold way of looking at it, but its worked for me. Its like business. You spend more time focusing on important aspects which are more likely to bring profit than other aspects (e.g. a software company focusing on software, with a minor focus on investing profits).

 

[icepick]

This stuff still holds true. Might as well toss it back up to the top. So what if I am too lazy to write another post.

 

[mb121]

Catchy Title, reminds me of that book full of Rand and others essays..

 

[Deep Dish]

For many, it has to do with self-image and reality. When who you think you are lines up with what you are, that's fine, but when you think you are someone and everyone else experiences someone different, that will hinder you so long there is conflict.

SELF-IMAGE:
I am a good man of value, I am DESIRABLE because of W, X, Y, Z. I am what women REALLY want.

REALITY:
You are a skinny, pale, badly fashioned, badly hairstyled, tennis shoe-wearing; introverted, emotionally dependent guy. You are NOT desired.

[Digression Part I: Back when there was this conflict, I had found it odd that even the sluts who'd sleep with any guy, would flee from the thought of me...]

And as "You are NOT desired" manifests itself in the mind, that is when the philosophy kicks in. Borrowing from Doc Love, to you Psych majors that is cognitive dissonance at work. [Rationalizing unwanted reality]. Guys who are naturally 'successful' with women don't philosophize precisely because there wasn't a conflict.

Icepick, I told you the following in a private message, but I repeat and elaborate on for sake of our reading audience. I found that once I solved the first conflict between self-image and reality, by doing the whole self-improvement thing, a whole another can of worms took its place.

Whatever you think of yourself, you project those values onto women; e.g. If you think yourself being good and of inherent chastity, you require that from women. With that said...

SELF-IMAGE:
I am NOT easy. I am a man of high worth, I have high standards. [And, therefore, require chaste behavior from women]

REALITY:
You are a sexually desirable being... and therefore women act 'slutty' around you. Women ARE easy. Women are 100% sexual.

[Digression Part II:... It's no wonder why patently slutty women now try to woo me, with kino and what not. And why all philosophies, theories, which countered this reality of sexuality, have fallen out of favor.]

Casting down women who 'too easily' show interest as sluts is, once again, cognitive dissonance. I resolved this conflict by realizing;

a) Women were just doing what is natural and what I really desired, expressing interest.
b) I'm easy. Other than requiring hot looks and easy to get along with, any woman will do.


Anti-Philosophy

Chumps philosophize to grow a view of the world; a blind man eyes open for the first time, he doesn't know what he's looking at, so he categorizes and defines boundaries; so in similiar light chumps go out and try to define the outside world -- how many women are nice, how many women are bytches, why do they do this or that, what women will like me, etc. -- rather than define his internal world.

The problem with philosophy is two-fold: it's not set in stone -- there's no one set reality of how women react to you -- and women will keep on changing, also the world, as you change. For instance: Pook has talked about how girls go into 'Pook Hunting Season', following him from classes. Before now that concept didn't exist in my reality, but now it happens. Point is, if I were to philosophize, I'd must keep throwing away my whole belief system every six months, which is about how often my reality changes.

Focus on your internal world.

 

[icepick]

Deep Dish,

It is a shame that many others do not think like you do. In your position, you could easily say that: "Oh, women like...blah, blah, blah," and then go on to describe your personality.

Some people try to tear apart attractiveness, and label it "alpha-male", or "symmetry", or "cleanliness", etc.

If you are beyond a certain "point" (e.g. dork-boy), then attracting girls (i.e. making them act 'slutty' around you) does not have much to do with your personality. (like how 'dominant' you are, etc.)

Thinking that it (attractiveness) DOES have to do with dominance, confidence, etc. may put too much PRESSURE on yourself, thereby causing you to act repulsive. (If you are lucky...if you are UNLUCKY, then you will still get girls while acting like a moron and you will have to "act" for the rest of your life.)

Most of it (attractiveness) has to do with these things:

- LOOKS (like your facial proportions, etc.)
- COLOR (eye color, skin color, tan, etc.)
- CLOTHES (clean, non-wrinkled, dork boy clothes or "cool" clothes)
- HAIR (facial hair, haircut, etc.)
- SIZE (big guy, little guy, muscles, no muscles, etc.)
- BODY FAT (muscles defined or not defined)
- BODY LANGUAGE (stems from attitude, can have a "sexual" body language)

If one looks at this list, the ONLY thing that you CANT change is LOOKS (facil proportions)! But there are SIX OTHER things that you CAN change!

Some time ago I decided to go for the "goatee" look. I am blonde with blue eyes, average body (for now ), short hair. I threw on a dress shirt and some khakis and went to a party. Let me tell ya, the chicks were really digin' me more than usual! Pook writes about "looking like brad pitt", and I think he is right on that account.

You gotta experiment, find out what makes YOU hot. (Read that in your other post Deep Dish...good point!)

Girls are SUPPOSED to cater to YOU. Why are you worrying about how to act? Why are you worrying about being perfect?

When women dress up, they worry about every last detail. Why? Maybe it is due to the fact that when a man is infatuated with a girl, everything is perfect to him. He overlooks the flaws that she has. There is an IDEAL that HE has in his mind that he FORCES her into. (And the less he has to force, the better.)

For women, I think, it is a bit different.

She ACCEPTS what the guy has, she sees the VALUE in every one of his nuances. (Maybe that is why she takes on his hobbies and life.) The guy is not striving towards an ideal, the WOMAN makes the guy her ideal. She forces HER ideal to BECOME the guy!

Why do nice guys, and guys that cater to women ultimately fail?

Because they do not project anything out into the world for the woman to "make ideal" or "latch on too". He starts to mold himself, and she can never get a "handle" on what makes him HIM. (Though AFCs DO ATTRACT CHICKS! If you are a HOT AFC, then you will get girls...they will just dump your ass!)

Really though, it has alot to do with appearance, though, appearance can be changed easily. Look how much sexier women are when they dress up.

The DJ techniques are geared toward getting you OUT THERE to even find out if the women will like you or not.

But, it is much better to just make yourself "hot".

 

[bust.it]

Icepick, quite a respectable post. It seems that that Pook's writing style has rubbed off on you a little (not that this degrades your post in any way- i like the baby blue light).

I don't really understand how it all fits together. Part of the time you talked about the AFC/DJ mindsets, how that somehow ties into an old philosophy that needs to be abolished (or just follow your own; other parts you preach experience instead of turning down those HBs because you were too picky; and yet other parts were the reasons behind your AFC(?) having sex with her and the reasons behind that.

I enjoyed reading it (and i did- all of it), but I was left with a confusion as to what the central advice was. Hope you can elaborate, thanks.

 

[icepick]

bust.it

Well, the central advice is simply to not analyze the sexual interplay between man and woman.

The AFC will have his "mindset" of:

- women like guys that are nice
- women like money
- I need to DO something to have a woman become attracted to me (like be nice/have money)
- etc.

We all know the problems this mindset brings.

The AFC who has found the so-called key to women will have THIS "mindset":

- no desperation
- confidence
- dominant and descisive
- mystery
- charismatic and charmful

While thinking this is BETTER than thinking the AFC stuff, there is still more to go. Some people think that by doing these things they are doing something EXTRA that MAKES women want them more than thier natural attractiveness.

This is wrong.

Here, let me put it in a numerical way:

Enter Clueless Dude

Hello! What is your name?

John

Hi John! What have you come to this site for?

I have found out that I am an AFC!

Good for you!

In John's mind, he is thinking:

My Looks: 7

My Personality: -2 (AFC)

TOTAL: 5 (These are the girls John gets with little effort)

How now John! What can I do ya for?

I would like to buy the DJ philosophy. You say it attracts chicks, I need an attractiveness boost.

Why certainly John. Here you go!

Now, in John's mind, he is thinking:

My Looks: 7

My Personality: +2 (DJ)

TOTAL: 9 (These are the girls John should now get with little effort)

Now, we find that John does NOT get "9"s that easily. Sure, he is now getting jumped by "7"s, but he has to really try hard to get a 9. (try hard=approach a few, get numbers, deal with low interest, etc.)

Why is this?

Well, in REAL LIFE, this is John:

John's Looks: 7

John's Personality: 0

TOTAL: 7

Zero for the DJ personality!!! But he tries so hard to maintain it! Plus, he tries hard for the 9's and 10's, surely there is something "magic" about his game!

Personality is not magic.

I don't know about you guys, but my goal is to be one of those "lucky" guys. You know, the kind that gets "eyes" from every hot female in the club. The kind that gets hit on by beautiful, picky women.

After rubbing all the AFC dirt out of my eyes, I saw that there were many girls, "7"s or so, that had high interest in me. NOT from my personality, but from my "attractiveness" (see my above post.)

Personality WILL sabotage your relationships with women, but what it WILL NOT do is boost your attractiveness to a "higher calibur". (Although you can get girls of a higher calibur than you, you just have to look around...but it will be harder. I would rather just make myself look better, so I have the time to focus on other things while I have a sweet, beautiful girl at home. )

If you make yourself look better, it will become WAY EASIER to get girls. They will do all of the work that you are worrying about now.

Early highschool, I had bad acne problems. (Along with other problems...) No girl would show interest in me. After going to the doctor for a year or so, it cleared up. (Accutane...thank you god!)

Even though I thought that I was still "ugly", I was very surprised on how many girls that were now interested in me! One girl, who HATED me, was now madly in love with me. Senior year, when I started to dress better/take care of my hair/etc., the hot chicks were now approaching ME! They didn't even know who I was! I had to tell them: "yes, we were in the same class together last year...I sat behind you and told you to shut up every day..."

So many think that this "dj" stuff is some secret magic. Not really.

That is all I am trying to say. Don't kill yourself trying to be the "philosophys" that are shown on this website. You SHOULD use them as a GUIDE though. That is, they should come natural.

Not really groundbreaking advice, but everything is vanity under the sun.

Hope this makes sense, I may update it tomorrow...kinda rambled on here.

 

[tracy Jaks]

bump

maybe you could summarise that for the newbies, know how lazy they can be.

 

[Ragnar]

Your title is the name of an Ayn Rand book! We all need philosophy.

The point is! everything goes back to RAND evertything everyone says on this site is attributable to Ayn Rand

Just read her books and you will be the Don Juan you have always wanted to be....

 

[mb121]

Ragnar, your name is obviously derived from Atlas Shrugged. The modern day Pirate who stole from the looters and gave to the producers (defacing the infamous Robin Hood): Ragnar Danneskjold.

Her (Rand's) characters were true DJ's, as close as you could possibly imagine to anyway.

Roark? Designed structures how he wanted to.

Dagny? Ran a railroad for her own happiness.

Gault? Devised a plot to screw over the looters and reward the producers.

Rearden? Designed a form of steel in 10 years for his own profit.

Prometheus? Escaped from his society of altruism and submission and discovered a new high conception: Himself.

Kira? Wanted to build bridges, failed, and died trying to escape the society which forbid her to pursue her own dreams.
Nevertheless, it was HER ideal which she died for, for herself and none other.

Who am I forgetting?

All of her fictional characters inspired me to think, and pursue logical goals. DJism is logical because it embraces our nature, our sexuality, our desires. In fact, if you want to see a battle over this, read Atlas Shrugged and pay attention closely to Hank Rearden, who selflessly stayed with his wife and FOUGHT his sexuality thinking it was MORAL until he realized otherwise.

Too bad Rand was herself a hypocrit at times in her life, and her views on Judeo-Christian teachings were distorted. But with all philosophy, you take the good, and leave the bad. And Rand certainly offered lots of good.

 

[icepick]

Ha! You are right about the title it seems. I have never heard of Ayn Rand aside from this board, neither have I read any of her books since coming here. (I have a short attension span, don't read many books...)

Didn't even realize that the title of the post is the same title of a book until you pointed it out!

Looks like interesting stuff though, I have always liked philosophy (in the normal sense, not the "get girls" philosophy stuff...) and I may take a look at some of her books. (Or even better, take a class and get credit for it!)

I dunno if everything goes back to Rand though, she got her ideas from somewhere. Philosophy has been alive since the first thoughts of the human race.

"What/why/how is all this?" is a question our souls will ponder for all eternity.

 

[ShortTimer]

Rand

Thinking back now to the romantic story lines in Atlas, We the Living and Fountainhead, Ayn is VERY up front about what women want in men. To the point of brutal honesty that I don't think I've ever seen anywhere else (remember the first time Roark and Dominique had sex?). I've been thinking about re-reading the 'romantic' parts in those books again to see what I missed without my DJ-glasses on.

 

[mb121]

Well, Basically ShortTimer, Roark wanted Dominique. He knew Dominique wanted him. So he went over to her house and raped her. Dominique loved it, she LOVED it.

She was an odd character though, obsessed with pain in many instances. Rand's characters were ... strange in certain ways. You just have to read her books to know what I mean.

 

[ShortTimer]

Sometimes I wonder if Rand overstated things just for effect (like the Roark & Dom thing). But overall she does pretty much lay out the road map for "women wanting the dominant male" thing.

 

[icepick]

Originally posted by photo 1
and no i didnt read the whole passage but i directly answered the question posed in the title cos frankly ive got better things to do than read a debate which isnt going to solve anything anyway.

Sorry my post got in your way, photo 1.

BTW, I wrote about "philosophy" as it pertains to the male/female sexual interaction. It is better to learn how to do it natural than to follow a set "philosophy".

Again, I apologize to you photo 1.