Payton Kane - Eye Contact Q...

[SkubaSteve]

I know there has been loads of posts on this subject. My questions stems from a recent tape I listened to by Payton Kane. The guy is like the Jim Carey on speed of the Dating Guru world but still has some cool stuff to offer.
My questions relates to Paytone Kane's standpoint on eye-contact. Kane is adamant that you should be the first to break eye-contact in a manner that says "I am the prize". All other PUA material I have ever come across teaches the complete opposite and states that to look away shows weakness and is an act of submission.
I personally have always found holding eye-contact and never looking away first to be instrumental in creating attraction however i can see some sense in what Kane is trying to say.
I wondered in any DJ's had any standpoint on this technique or whether there was a right time or wrong time to favour one technique over the other.

Thanx upfront

 

[B-Lemond]

Payton who?


No one has ever hear of him. How can he be a "dating guru". You just got suckered into buying his e-book with the wrong info.

For further reference do a search before hand.

Read this:
http://www.jbspencer.com/djb/




Mods - Please close this thread.

 

[SkubaSteve]

Who said I bought it ?

 

[Distant Light]

You have any links of this guys material?

I never heard of him and i know a handful of top ppl. Curious on wat else he talks about.

 

[brucevangeorge]

What's a dating guru? Is that even a real job?

What kind of crap have you been buying? Don't bother with that stuff. Just get your ass up and out the door, and take your pick. Talk to people, make mistakes and get experience.

Don't bother with some phony. It's a waste of time, $$$, and you are missing all the opportunities. Nothing beats experience.


If you really want to read stuff. Get some "think and grow rich" by napoleon hill. "how to make friends and influence people" by dale carnegie. "48 laws of power" and a few other really good books. Thats all you need. You dont even need the books, but they may shed some light on what you may be doing wrong, and what you may be doing right but not noticing.

 

[The Juan and only]

Originally posted by brucevangeorge

Don't bother with some phony. It's a waste of time, $$$, and you are missing all the opportunities. Nothing beats experience.

I agree, good advice.

 

[SkubaSteve]

The Payton Kane CD series was given to me by a friend so I haven't been suckered into anything etc. Whether the guy is labelled a guru or PUA or whatever, surely we are all continually learning all the time and therefore all information made available to us should be considered. The purpose of the thread was to discuss whether never breaking eye-contact was always the best technique to use ! The message from Kane was simple.....Look away first and in a way which demonstrates you are the prize.
I don't have any links to his stuff but you may be able to find stuff in p2p torrents etc.

 

[Ricky]

I'm assuming the way to look away is to keep your eyes level and look at something else as if you are interested.

 

[SkubaSteve]

Exactly Ricky, Kane suggest keeping all movements slow and on purpose. I have recently tried holding eye-contact and trying to time the (slow) look away just at the point where you can feel the tingle of attraction building. I did this on friday (see my posh girls post on this forum) and I coud see this girl in my periferal (sp)vision trying to re-establish a gaze.
And for the record I may have just joined this forum and only made a few posts but I think it is unfair for forum vets to presume I have spent no time in the field and that I have nothing to offer this forum.

 

[JJMcLure]

Don't be the first one to break EC. Simple, field tested, fact.

Maintaining EC is far more powerful.

Holding EC then looking away (sideways not down) signals - I saw you, I assessed you, I am not intimidated by you, but I am not particularly interested in you.

Demonstrating higher value (being "the prize") and being a challenge can be achieved much more effectively in other ways.

What can be achieved by breaking EC and hoping the chick wants to make EC again? Enough time for another guy to move in on her, time for her to move away, for her friend to pull her away etc.

The end result will be the same - sooner or later you have to go over and initiate with her. If she tries to reinitiate EC then sure, its an AI, but if she holds EC the first time that's an AI. Delaying making a move never helps and gives the chance for other chumps to move in.

 

[undersecter]

links links links!!!!!!!!!

http://www.seduceandconquer.com/


http://www.seduceandconquershow.com/

 

[Luke Skywalker]

I'm a Complete Seduce and Conquer student, so I know about Payton Kane.

I jive with some of the stuff he says - but he says allot of funny things:

Here are some of his claims:

- You are wasting your time if you build muscles on the gym or improve your body. All you have to work on is posture and you are fine. Claims he went to gym to lose weight and looked like a skeleton and discourages other people from doing same. He says, if you simply go for a walk 30 minutes a day, do a few stretches - THAT'S ALL YOU NEED. No gym workouts are necessary - claims women like confidence, and those who have good bodies may just have more confidence, which is why women like them.


- He will say that if you are dressed properly, have the right tan skin complexion (not too pale), and have the right posture - that's all you need to look good.

- He will suggest to look your best whenever you are out of the house - but again, no gym is encouraged.

*********

- Then he'll say other crap like, have your date at a sea-food restaruant, and pay for the whole meal, and play with her hair and kiss close her by saying you feel there is chemistry.
The idea of the sea-food restaurant is you can share shrimp together, and therefore build a quick bond. You dip shrimp and put it into her mouth, and she dips shrimp and puts it into my mouth. That's supposed to build 'rapport' for the k-close. But you have to sit adjacent to her not opposite of her for it to work. Supposed to 'break the ice' for a kiss close so to speak. Never tried it - because I listened to the philosophy of cheap coffee dates. No lines, script or fuller is suggested. May try it on a future date to see if it jives.

- Will call the 'alpha-male' a man's man rather than saying alpha-male ???

- Suggests going up to girls to say hi to them, whether alone or in groups.

- Will say you work on your tone by sounding more enthuastic with all friends and everyone else around. If you have good tone and can approach his standard opener is "Hey girl, what's up?". His idea of humour is to pick on a girl and neg-rap her.

*********

Now in terms of eye contact, that's exactly what he says to do, is break away contact, like you are offended with the girl - I've tried that, usually my motivation is, I'm to shy to maintain eye contact, and Payton Kane said it's ok to be shy if it's to break contact - is how I read it.

HIs CD's actually reinforced my natural shyness around women, because I dont have a problem of being disinterested in them, I'm naturally too shy to show interest of any form.

My opinion is that his stuff MAY work in a bar and club environment, but doesn't seem to be sound with a lone-wolf, or his style just doesn't jive with me.

He sounds right about tone of voice and enthusiasm, and having an exercise routine woven into daily affairs - but ACTING SHY AROUND WOMEN doesn't show confidence - which is sort of indirectly implied by breaking eye contact - that's a shy man's move. I do that all the time as I'm shy.

 

[SeldomSeen]

Re:

Do your research. Payton Kane runs Seduce and Conquer. Just becuase people havent heard of him doesnt mean he cant be a dating coach or whatever. Hell I coach men on the side from time to time. Anyway his method is ****iness/teasing etc on steriods but works mainly with hot babes and strippers. Ive never used it but there's a good review of it on Mysterys forum under product reviews. And dont command a mod to close a thread when someone fields a question.


As far as eye contact. Its crucial to make eye contact. It can produces chemicals (PEA) that is linked to desire (and fear also thats why some guys and mammals feel threatened when you stare at them) The thing is you dont want to keep staring at a woman as it will creep her out. And eye contact should be close, doing it far away produces nothing.

 

[Interceptor]

He's the guy that says you have to "treat a woman like sh*t."

LOL!

Anyway, breaking eye contat is fine if there's something that draws your attention other than the woman with whom you are speaking to.

Do NOT 'hang" on her every word!!!

Simple.

Even your body language shoud reflect that you are NOT IMPRESSED that you are talking to some hawt chick.

Only show interest when she shows You something interesting.

Breaking eye contact is fine when you know and show you are feeling confident and comfortable. Even if there are 'awkward silences'. You just don't care!
IF she has given you nothing in return in the interaction, the chick has not proven herself to be worth it.
breaking rapport also show that you are secure enough and are not outcome dependent on the interaction.
Instead of "OMG I'm going to lose her!" thinking, you think "Is this fun for me or not?"
That's it.

Do not be smiling and beaming because "OMG a hawt chick is talking to me!! OMG!!"


And again, NEVER "qualify" Yourself or look for acceptance or approval from her or anyone ever. EVER. NEVER.
NEVER go lookng for female approval. NEVER.

 

[Luke Skywalker]

I don't know - you only get looks if you have exceptional looks, you peac0ck, or have some sort of vibes that are going out that people are noticing you - but this is dumb advice if you are like most guys who are just invisible out there.

Women just look to see who is there and if they know you or not and often give this 'dont approach if I dont know you' vibe when you go out to do approaches. Unless you really look hot - I dont think you get looked at 'with interest' further than seeing who is there. I dont see women looking any further than that.

I may feel loathe to spend $ 700 on one of his day-game seminars - but the thought had crossed my mind.

BTW: PAYTON KANE does not honour money-back refunds for his products - he'll put you on a guilt-trip if you ask him in person saying you are not motivated enough and will blame you for his products on his fine print conditions.

 

[Interceptor]

but this is dumb advice

Pray tell, Luke, which part is "dumb advice"?
Seriously. DO tell.

 

[Shyguy2003]

I only break eye contact with a hot girl in passing when she does. When you get into a conversation with one, one on one, you can use much heavier eye contact but you should break it and look away every little while.

Some girls who are hot and know they are hot because their used to having guys hit on them will often challenge you and stare you down in conversation. When this happens, don't look away! If you pass this test, you usaully are on very good grounds with her afterwards because she's used to guys chickening out and not being able to hold eye contact. Those guys you can guess are in the friendship category.

 

[potato]

My questions relates to Paytone Kane's standpoint on eye-contact. Kane is adamant that you should be the first to break eye-contact in a manner that says "I am the prize". All other PUA material I have ever come across teaches the complete opposite and states that to look away shows weakness and is an act of submission.
I personally have always found holding eye-contact and never looking away first to be instrumental in creating attraction however i can see some sense in what Kane is trying to say.
I wondered in any DJ's had any standpoint on this technique or whether there was a right time or wrong time to favour one technique over the other.

Thanx upfront

I think that it really doesn’t matter as long as there is some kind of communication going on between your and her eyes.

Try this one with a girl who you’ve just met, who you are greatly interested in, but have yet to talk to. Make strong eye contact with her and hold it with a somewhat serious look on your face. Then slowly move your hand up to your face and then suddenly force one of your fingers up your nose and give it a few good twists.

 

[Interceptor]

Dude, understand that receiving a woman's Eye Contact is her practically opening a sexual door to you. For women, it really is all about the eyes being the window to the soul.

You should learn to be able to tell a woman's EC from normal polite, to "You are so hot! I want you to take me NOW!" eye contact.
Remember a woman's social constraints, and her body language. She will often not want to even appear slvtty. Accomodate her, and speak to her through your eyes.
Her reputation is at stake. So she communicates to you with her EYES, men.

Her EYES.

 

[Randallpink83]

you should only worry about eye contact until it becomes natural.. then it wont matter if you break it first or not, cause its good either way and you don't even think about it....

I break eye contact first sometimes. But its not even a logical decision.

Its simply who I am, I like to stay aware of my surroundings. So when I first meet a girl I will give her strong EC while we are first meeting but then I tend to just feel very comfortable like we are hanging out and I will start scanning the people around me every once in awhile, just being aware and awake, yet focused on her still.

But when I feel like its escalating time, or its about to go on I will zone out on her and pull her in with tractor eyes.... Lazer beam that sh!t.

eye contact isn't so much how long can you hold it.... it's more about HOW powerful is it when you are holding it?
Do you promote confidence, relaxing, sexual vibe?