Passion and the subtlety of game in an LTR

Monastie

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I've been lurking on the forums for quite a while now, and I always felt like every subject I was interested in had been exhausted before this one.
It’s quite understandable because the forums mostly deal with AFCs looking for sex, and much less with these same mechanisms applied to monogamy.

I've read quite a bit on the subject, the posters that caught my attention the most were "Rollo Tomassi" and "Dave from Hawaii" (From his blog, not SS)

My problem is a drop in this passion, and sex in my relationship. I used to feel admired… hell WORSHIPED! Not anymore…

The sex has gone wayyyy down, there could be a thousand reasons for it (money, intimacy, time), but in the end none of these matters if she actually still wanted it. And we talked about it, and after many fights, she did actually realize it (Once she looked at texts on my old cell phone that dated from a year back of how she would want me), she then started being more self conscious (Not very helpful). Now she’s back to not being self conscious but nothing has changed.

I think the major problem is how much she feels secure now, while at the beginning she had to work very hard and even put aside her ego to get me (which made her feel unconsciously that i was worth this effort). How can I do the same thing but without jeopardizing my relationship because I want to fix it and not next the problem.
 

Falcon25

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Do you know what sparks a relationship??? JEALOUSY. Make sure she knows you are ABOUT TO FUVK OTHER WOMEN. But 90 percent of men are too weak to seek new puvsy when they are in love with a woman. AS soon as she catches the scent of another woman, watch her give you everything you want. YOU TALKED ABOUT IT? WTF? Do you know who talk about their problems? Gay couples at lunch. Do you think Clint Eastwood talks about his relationship problems to his young wife? YOU NEVER VERBALIZE HOW YOU FEEL. You always use actions. When she comes to you and says "whats wrong?" and you don't tell her anything, she will spend the next twenty days trying to figure it out. How do you make a cat come sit on your lap? By ignoring it. By petting other cats. By doing your own thing.
 

zekko

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My problem is a drop in this passion, and sex in my relationship. I used to feel admired… hell WORSHIPED! Not anymore…
You didn't say how long you've been together, or if you live with her.
I think that it's fairly natural for some of the passion to disappear as the novelty wears off. How do you feel about HER? Do you still feel the same passion toward her?

It sounds like in this case she probably has a low sex drive. When you were new and exciting she was easily aroused. But now as the hormones that were stimulated from her "new love" subside, she's going back to her low sex drive position. And the way you're describing it, her drive sounds pretty low.

If you're having "many fights" as you said, that could be making things worse as well. If she starts to associate you with bad feelings (fighting), that probably isn't going to spark her interest. All the fighting could make her feel her trust has been betrayed. There could be another issue in the relationship manifesting itself in the bedroom.

It takes some effort to keep things interesting after you've been together for awhile. Unfortunately that effort has to come from both sides. I'm not sure this isn't a lost cause. But whatever you do, do not FIGHT with her about the sex, because then she will associate the sex with unpleasantness (fighting).
 

Warrior74

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You have to learn game or start cheating. Those are your options. Also stop making excuses for her.
there could be a thousand reasons for it (money, intimacy, time), but in the end none of these matters if she actually still wanted it.
You have to make her want it. Read this and then go and study game. Good luck.

http://roissy.wordpress.com/2009/08/14/relationship-game-week-a-readers-journey/

*edit* Just noticed this roissy post is commenting on a Dave in Hawaii post. Sounds to me like you just don't want to do the work. There is no easy magic bullet. Study and learn game and start applying it and passing **** test. You have to affect her mind. Mind controls the body. You want her to worship you? You know how, it requires you to change and do a little mental work. Good luck.
 

Rollo Tomassi

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Women would rather share a successful Man than be attached to a faithful loser - Pook

The Cardinal Rule of Relationships
In any relationship, whether romantic, personal, business or familial, the person with the most power is the one who needs the other the least.

It's odd that this should come up today as it's my 13th wedding anniversary with my wife. One of the most common things I'm asked on SS is "how do you keep the marriage fresh Rollo?" Among my responses to this is usually how, contrary to the advice column Oprah-standard answer, a good relationship should be effortless. All of this "marriage is a constant work" is bullsh!t meant to keep a husband in a constant state of qualifying for his wife's intimacy intended for her long term frame retention. Women in marriage and LTRs want to push past that competition anxiety, they want security, not just financial, but emotional and the security that comes from knowing they are the only source of sex & intimacy for their spouse/partner.

One of the reasons sexual frequency declines for women after a romantic commitment is that the urgency of sex that was necessary prior to the commitment is replaced with the agency of sex being a reward / reinforcer within that LTR. In single, uncommitted, non-exclusive life, sex, while being very enjoyable, becomes a proving ground for most women. In essence, it's the free samples before the buy, and its urgency is fueled not only by (hopefully) genuine attraction, but also the at least subconscious knowing that they are in a sexual marketplace of competition. It's one of the few times when a woman must qualify for a man's approval. And admittedly, most men are so sex-deprived or so inexperienced early on in life that the sell is usually not a tough one for her. However, on some level of consciousness she is aware that she could be replaced by a better competitor.

This then is the contrast for committed sexual interaction. The dynamic now shifts from qualification sex to utility sex. Now before anyone jumps to conclusions, yes, sex is still enjoyable, it can still be passionate, and she can definitely want it, but the impetus shifts. Sex is now a tool. In her uncommitted sex life it was a tool for qualification; in her LTR life it's a tool for compliance. This is pretty obvious, and it may be more or less extreme depending upon the woman's disposition or how important a particular issue is to her, but make no mistake, there isn't a woman on the planet who doesn't take her sexual agency into account when dealing with her LTR / husband. That agency may be more or less valuable - dependent upon her looks, demeanor, sexual availability, etc. - in comparison to the man she's paired with.

And this is where the Cardinal Rule of Relationships plays in. This is the constant interplay of vying for who is more dependent upon the other. Women have for the past 50+ years made a concerted effort, and using social conventions, to establish their sexuality as the end-all for men in power. Vagina = Authority and this is what all too many men parrot back and self-reinforce. "Change, do it, sublimate your desires, or there wont be any nookie for you tonight mister!" And on the surface it seems intuitive to 'keep the peace' and finish all the things on her honey-do list in the hopes that she'll recover even a fraction of the desire she had when you were single, childless and getting blow jobs in the car after a date because she couldn't wait to get home to ƒuck you.

Well LTR gentlemen, I'm here to tell you that, yes, you do in fact have an intrinsic upper hand in this regard if you're fearless and willing to exercise your power. What I described in the last paragraph seems to be the most intuitive - do what she says = get sex - so it should come as no shock that the answer to it is counterintuitive. You must find ways to, subtly, return back to the state of competition anxiety she had in the beginning. I emphasize subtly, because, as with most everything else female, doing so overtly will be met with hostility. To get more sex, to retain the frame, to inspire more respect in her, you must disengage from her. That doesn't mean becoming aloof, or sulking, or becoming an A-Hole; those are OVERT signs and methods. What is needed is incremental reassertion of yourself as the primary AND that her sexual agency, while still welcomed, is not a motivator for your own decisions.

I'm fond of saying no vagina is worth years of regret, yet this is exactly where most men find themselves, because they are either unwilling or unable to rock the vagina boat. They fail to understand that a woman's imagination is the most powerful tool in the DJ's toolbox. Now, the deductive and obvious way of stimulating that imagination would be to blurt out and say "look b!tch, your pussie's not made of gold and there are plenty of other girls ready to polish my nob if you don't straighten up, see?" And this of course is met with either resistance or shame from her. What serves a Man better is to make incremental changes in himself that she will perceive as attractive to other women. Women want to be with Men who other women want to ƒuck, and other men want to be, but this cuts both ways. The more empowered he becomes, the better physical shape he attains, the more professional achievements he gathers, the more valuable he makes himself, the more anxiety is produce - and this is anxiety she can't argue against.

One of the first things I tell men trapped in a her-frame relationship is to get to the gym, train hard, look better. This has two effects; first it makes her interest in ƒucking increase, and second it fires up that imagination. "Why is he doing this? He's really looking better these days, I see it, other women must too. Maybe I need to start working out? Gosh those girls at the gym look so much better than me." She can't argue with a healthy desire to look better, feel better, and be concerned with your health.

Don't accept that her sexuality is the authority of the relationship. The better you make yourself the more authority you command, the more you abdicate to her the less authority (and respect) you command. Women need to be told "NO", in fact they want you to tell them "NO", especially in light of the 800 pound gorilla in the room - her sexual agency. When a woman controls the LTR frame with her vagina, it's always going to color your dealings with her. THIS IS NO WAY TO GO THROUGH LIFE. It becomes this ever-present, unspoken understanding that she can ultimately play the pussie card and you'll comply. And while this may gratify her in the short term, you will lose her respect in the long term. She wants to be told "NO" in spite of you knowing she's going to hold out on you. This is the ultimate repudiation of her sexual agency - "if he says "NO" with the foreknowledge that he's not getting any, my sexual powers are devalued." If her sexual agency is called into question it leaves room for doubt and opens the door once again for competition anxiety to creep back in.

In the end, who cares if you don't get laid for a week? It's well worth the price for increasing her respect for you as a commodity, and increasingly, an authority. If you want to maintain that anxiety, you must perpetuate yourself as being a commodity women will compete for, even in commitment.
 

Kailex

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Rollo Tomassi said:
One of the first things I tell men trapped in a her-frame relationship is to get to the gym, train hard, look better. This has two effects; first it makes her interest in ƒucking increase, and second it fires up that imagination. "Why is he doing this? He's really looking better these days, I see it, other women must too. Maybe I need to start working out? Gosh those girls at the gym look so much better than me." She can't argue with a healthy desire to look better, feel better, and be concerned with your health.
I wanted to add onto this with a personal experience of mine.

I've had my own journal up in the H&F forums. I've lost weight since I started REALLY getting into it mid-way through the year.

One of my plates has been present in my life since about the time I started. She's seen me lose 30 pounds and I have to say, her sex drive went UP during that time.

Not only that, but she's literally tried to dress better, tried to fvck better.

I knew this point was true when she said to me that things had changed for her now, because now that I lost weight she HAD to keep up with me.

And that's when I knew all of what Rollo said and the H&F forums provide, to be true. She's the living proof. I'm leaner and look TONS better. Other women have noticed, my plates have noticed, but specially her. Any woman that meets me now won't see that same effect as she did because she was there when I was 200, and now that I'm at 170-ish, she KNOWS what I went through to lose weight and look better.

Point is: ALWAYS strive to look better and hit that gym, even if you are firmly entrenched in an LTR. She WILL wonder why you are doing it if you are into that relationship already and it'll make her wonder what the "purpose" is.



In the end, who cares if you don't get laid for a week? It's well worth the price for increasing her respect for you as a commodity, and increasingly, an authority. If you want to maintain that anxiety, you must perpetuate yourself as being a commodity women will compete for, even in commitment.
"NO" is the word that women hate the most.
And just as they use the pvssy as currency, we can do just the same with the word "NO". It an actually buy their respect and you can reap the rewards of that later on.
 

Zarky

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Sex always drops through the floor when you see a woman a lot. Familiarity destroys lust.

This is why you should always be boning multiple women. ALWAYS. Your whole life.
 

Hakuna

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Use Jealousy to spark passion - she needs to know that other women want you. She'll enjoy the challenge of feeling the need to keep your attention, and the feeling that she has a man that other women want

Cute your Oneitis- Accept that there are other women out there who can make you happier than your current gf. You don't have to cheat on your gf, just shift your mentality from "I need her" to "I need women." An abundance mentality will cure your neediness and increase her interest level.

Get out of your comfort zone- Passion dies when we begin to do the same things over and over again. Whether it's sex in the same position or talking on the phone for one hour every night, if you fall into routines, your passion will drop.

Withdraw both attention and sex- For now, make something else your priority besides your girlfriend. Make your 3 main goals expanding your female social circle, working on your career, and getting in shape
 
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