Overcoming the Race Barrier

[Racecar]

Let me start off by saying I am not looking for sympathy, attention or controversy. I am not racist nor do I condone those sort of thoughts from any perspective. What I am is a black man - specifically a black man in America. The following is an account of my experience with race and how it has affected my romantic life. Regardless of ethnicity, I hope everyone on these boards can learn from my story.

Being black in America isn't easy. I won't bore you with stories of racist professors or racial profiling. I've been called every name imaginable, treated differently at work and had my house egged on several occasions. Feelings of anger and depression have long since given way to disappointment in my fellow man. Whether it's height, weight, financial status or emotional distress, everyone has problems in life. These are mine.

Despite all of this, I consider myself fortunate. I am 24, educated and fairly attractive. I've dated my share of women, had some great sex on occasion and most importantly I've made strides in my development as a man. On that note, I'd like to thank some of the well-respected men here for taking the time to share their wisdom with those of us who need it. These message boards have been a blessing.

Recently I hit a wall in my dating life. I had three active plates (two white, one black). One of my girls had her own place, so I decided to spend New Year's Eve with her. Aside from her behaving like a typical woman, everything went extremely well, that is, until New Year's Day. We were cuddling together on the couch watching a movie when she gets a surprise text from her parents. They live 30 minutes away and they told her they'd be heading over to see her before leaving on vacation to Chicago. She tells me this. My first thought (other than I guess we're not having sex after this horrible movie) was: 'OK, I guess it's time to meet the parents.'

HB7: "So... I guess my parents will be here in 30 minutes."
Racecar: "Okay - no problem. You going to clean up or something?"
HB7: "Yes but...you have to go home. Now."

I couldn't bring myself to ask her why. I knew the answer. We weren't exclusive, but we had been seeing each other as 'friends' for months and gotten physical on multiple occasions. If we were just friends, why wouldn't she want to introduce her friend to her parents?

That experience was an eye opener. It was like so many of the other embarrassing experiences I had with interracial dating. Before, I labeled those experiences as outliers - claiming they were more the exception than the rule. It's hard to describe unless you've been in the situation. It feels like no matter how dominant you are, she's 'doing you a favor' by taking a chance on you. "It's 20XX," I would say to myself. "Surely race can't play that big a role in relationships." I was wrong. Race is everything.

After doing some research, I came across this study from OK Cupid. I'm sure everyone has seen this by now. It breaks down a chart of message reception rates for both men and women by race. I've heard many of my friends share their success stories with online dating, and now I see why. Statistically by message reception rates, white men (29.2%) are by far the most desired demographic. Black men (21.7%) only edge out Indians (20.8%) for the dubious distinction as the least desired demographic. Black men do well in attracting only one group - the black woman (28% reception rate). However, of all groups, the black woman is least receptive to the black man.

I understand these are only numbers, but I'm enough of a realist not to simply discredit them. Let's (rightfully) assume these statistics are indicative of the real world. Where does that leave me? I'm trying to pull exclusively from one demographic who is interested in everyone but me.

In sports, coaches stress taking care of the things you can control. Improving external game (getting in the gym, eating and dressing well) and internal game (confidence, mindset and dominance) help, but I'm looking for more. How do I overcome the race barrier? Please provide any tips, suggestions or comments on dealing with race in relationships. Thank you all in advance for reading.

 

[5string]

You don't overcome the race barrier as you are not the problem. They are.

Of note: You write extremely well.

 

[Iceberg]

How do I overcome the race barrier? Please provide any tips, suggestions or comments on dealing with race in relationships. Thank you all in advance for reading.

In regards to being black, there's nothing you can do about that. So like you said, don't stress it. Some people will like you. Some won't. That's life.

As you already noted....worry about what you can control. The girls who are going to like you, are going to like you. The ones with racial bias won't. Nothing you can do about it, so just keep improving.


As for that situation with your girl, maybe it's because your black. Or maybe it's because you're just some guy she's temporarily banging, and she doesn't want you to meet her parents.

You make it sound like it's no biggie for her to introduce you to the parents...even as a friend....but man, I NEVER do that. Serious girlfriends rarely even get invites to meet my family....let alone some girl I'm just f**king. If I were in that girl's situation, i would have said the same thing. "Ah sorry. My mom says she's stopping by. I gotta clean up, etc. You'd better get running."

So, I don't know you very well of course, but I wonder if you're being a bit oversensitive to the racial thing. I'm black. I've had tons of negative experiences myself. And because of that, sometimes you'll look at negative situations through a racial perspective. Instead of seeing someone who simply hurt your feelings through lack of caring, or just plain accidentally....maybe you're assuming that she hurt you because of RACE. Instead of "you insulted me because you're a d!ck" it becomes, "you insulted me because you're racist."

That is not always the case.

 

[Racecar]

Thank you both.

sometimes you'll look at negative situations through a racial perspective. Instead of seeing someone who simply hurt your feelings through lack of caring

That's possible. I make a conscious effort to avoid using race as a crutch. Just like you said, if a girl isn't interested for whatever reason, you move on. It's just frustrating to have so many experiences similar to the one I described earlier.

I wonder if you're being a bit oversensitive to the racial thing.

Also possible. I tried online dating for the first time a few days ago. I've sent dozens of messages out to women and I haven't received a single reply. Not one! That OKCupid study made me think about things from a racial perspective and it falls in line with everything I've ever experienced regarding women. It really is an unenviable position to be in.

 

[Serg897]

Most of us are born into unfavorable situations in some form or another.

I started losing my hair before I was 20. Traditionally there is a stigma against being bald or balding, and I was always self conscious about it. I started looking into Rogaine and Propecia to try to combat it (spending big $$$).

Three years ago I said "**** it", enough is enough, and just shaved my head. In those three years I've dated and banged more women than ever before. My analogy isnt perfect, It just goes to show you that you shouldnt let society define you - be your own person and deal with the cards life gives you, and the women will come.

I also second what the first commenter said - you write very well.

 

[backbreaker]

I think you are reading too much into the situation.

I too am black. I mean.. life is what it is. You can't waste your time worrying about **** you can't control. There are going to be some bigoted people out there. That's the real world. But the situation you described I think you are over playing it. Any chick is going to be reluctant to have her parents meet any guy she's dating, white or black. You don't want your parents to think you are just a ***** or something, everytime they come over you got a different dude over.


It's like.. you are getting normal resistance, and you are just assuming that the only reason they don't like you is becuase you are black and they are white. You see these guys on this forum, the white guys, and you fail to realize they are getting damn near the same level of resistance that you are getting.

It's ALL a numbers game.

It's just not something that has ever been an issue with me. With that said, I am technically 3/4ths black and 1/4th white so I have a goldish complexion which I think girls kinda dig. I'm not "dark" and I was blessed with my mothers looks. I mean I am quite sure some women that shot me down did so becuase of my skin color I just don't care. That's not my problem that's theirs.

Hell, if anything I prefer being black. And I just am not attracted to white women, it's just that the things I do, that's generally what I am around. My wife is white (as snow). I stand out.

Successful people, rather it be with women, with business, with sports, with anything, learn to take an inventory of themselves, and use their traits to the best of their advantage. The fact that I am a well built well dressed black man, approaching a white woman, right there, is going to set me apart from my competition because I stand out. I can't freaking tell you how many women I've dated or been with that told me they have never really been into a black guy into they met me, or that they saw me and was like "Humm I wounder what they would be like". My wife told me point blank the first time she thought I was in shape bu t didn't look twice at me because she had never dated a black guy, but the more she saw me the more she looked the more she was interested.


Play on a woman's natural curiosity. You have a built in advantage to peak a woman's interest that the vast majority of people here don't have.

To add, the few women who are actually that shallow, are doing you a favor by weeding them out.

I also second what the first commenter said - you write very well.

lol WTF is he supposed to write like? what did you expect?


I want to add this brief story that has nothing to do with women to kinda illustrate my point. In my business, web development dealing with clients who live all over the world, within a year or so give or take, I had so many bad experiences with clients paying with credit card, that I stopped taking credit card altogether. I had one client basically just lie and tell the credit card company he never got his site, then he moved his site off his server and hid it, and despite the fact that i had documented about 75 pages worth of correspondence, even the email that he sent confirming that the site was live on his server, I had to eat a $4,000 chargeback. I learned quickly when dealing with non tangible items, the credit card company is going to side with the client, 9 out of 10 times, despite what evidence you have other wise.

But what do you do when you have a client who really needs his site right now, or needs you to start working a project today and can't wait for a check to get there? Western Union. So I started using Western Union/ Money Gram. I had so much backlash at first, that I toyed with re opening a merchant account. I was losing clients left and right who just knew that we were trying to scam them, because the only people who use western union are scammers lol.

As I started honing in on the type of client I like to deal with, which took some time, and we got more and more references, and I stopped treating the "okay will you pay me with western union" issue like a big show down, and started assuming you will do what I tell you to do, becuase I'm telling you to do it, I can count on one hand the amount of clients who had an issue with wiring me money, to the point where I have had mutliple clients wire me thousands of dollars before we even start on a project. I don't like to use western union becuase their fees are out of control but if we are starting on a job that is going to take 2 weeks to do and it has to be done in exactly 2 weeks I really don't have a choice.

My point of the story being, 90% of this **** is in your head. You approach the issue with timidness, and people will sense it and sense something is off. The more bold you are the more you act like you know what the expected outcome i is, in this case her giving you the digits, then that's what's going to happen, regardless of race.

 

[perseverance]

Try being a skinny, short white guy and try telling me I am not in the same boat as you are.

I'd say a majority men have some disadvantage to them whether it is racial make up, stereotypes about race, culture etc, we all suffer from it. I mean Indian and South East Asian men probably have it worse than black men, yet it seems to me that it is always the black man that screams the loudest about this type of stuff. Indeed black men seem to play the race card more than anyone else - I sure as hell don't see that many black women screaming about perceived injustices.

You need to get over yourself and stop being so insecure. So some white parents don't want their children to mix, just like some black parents don't want their children to mix - that's the way it goes. It is sad that in the 21st Century such attitiudes towards race still exist, but there you go they do! There's an unfair racial stereotype about small white guys like me being weak, small in the pants department and generally quite nerdy, yet I don't complain about it. I attract women and I also repel women, that's just the way it goes.

Of course the white man has it easy doesn't he? Yes, he probably does if he resembles Brock Lesnar or Johnny Depp, if he resembles McLovin' he's as screwed as a blackman who resembles Carlton Banks.

 

[Iceberg]

Also possible. I tried online dating for the first time a few days ago. I've sent dozens of messages out to women and I haven't received a single reply. Not one! That OKCupid study made me think about things from a racial perspective and it falls in line with everything I've ever experienced regarding women. It really is an unenviable position to be in.

What's an unenviable position to be in? Being black? You're going WAY too far off the deep end.

I've been on OKCupid and I've had no problem meeting women at all. So you sent out dozens of messages and got no responses? Welcome to online dating.

Once again, you're taking a problem that ALL men have, and attributing it to being black.

If you're good looking, confident, and intelligent, the world finds a way to lean in your favor. If you're average, then you're going to have an average life. That goes for white, black, and everything else.

You make it sound like white dudes have vagina being thrown at them everywhere they go. This site is mostly white guys. White guys with enormous dating issues. And their issues aren't attributed to race. So why assume that YOURS are?

Your black pigment isn't going anywhere, so why even bother complaining about it? I'm black. I'm successful at my job. I have a good personality. And (shocker!) I have zero complaints about the dating world. Sure, women are flaky, entitled, and sometimes annoying....but these are issues that ALL men face. Whatever is going bad for me in this world has nothing to do with my skin color. Maybe it did at earlier points in my life...but I've taken myself out of that position.

 

[Racecar]

Good points all around.

I think my problem might be more confidence than anything else. I know people of all different races that pull well. Short people...fat people...short fat people...it's definitely possible to become successful with women regardless of the perceived handicap. I honestly believe confidence and success feed off one another. It's difficult to be confident if you haven't had much success. It's also difficult to have success without any confidence. This may be a limiting belief, but I feel I need one to have a shot at the other.

Just reading SS success stories made me feel better about myself today. I'm looking forward to sharing stories of my own very soon.

 

[Vice]

Do what American Black men have been doing for almost a century:

Move to France!

(See: Flyboys, 2006)

 

[backbreaker]

Try being a skinny, short white guy and try telling me I am not in the same boat as you are.

I'd say a majority men have some disadvantage to them whether it is racial make up, stereotypes about race, culture etc, we all suffer from it. I mean Indian and South East Asian men probably have it worse than black men, yet it seems to me that it is always the black man that screams the loudest about this type of stuff. Indeed black men seem to play the race card more than anyone else - I sure as hell don't see that many black women screaming about perceived injustices.

You need to get over yourself and stop being so insecure. So some white parents don't want their children to mix, just like some black parents don't want their children to mix - that's the way it goes. It is sad that in the 21st Century such attitiudes towards race still exist, but there you go they do! There's an unfair racial stereotype about small white guys like me being weak, small in the pants department and generally quite nerdy, yet I don't complain about it. I attract women and I also repel women, that's just the way it goes.

Of course the white man has it easy doesn't he? Yes, he probably does if he resembles Brock Lesnar or Johnny Depp, if he resembles McLovin' he's as screwed as a blackman who resembles Carlton Banks.

lol I have been told I"m a dead ringer or calton banks. though it's kinda just about how I dress.

And you are correct.. I wouldn't call it racism per say, but you are spot on about black families being worse than white families. My old oneitis who is half comlimbian and half white, her dad and I used to shoot the **** all the time at the bar when I saw him there. My wife's family treats me like a son, never had any issues out of any of them besides the concern over her being pregnant and how all that was going to play out, etc.

my mom...to steal a line from the wire.. shiiiiiiiiit. my mom threw a hissy fit in the middle of red lobster in front of my entire maternal family. "I don't understand why just can't date a nice black woman" right in front of my her with like 15 people at the table. She threw a hissy fit when I told her I was getting married. She threw a hissy fit when we wouldn't have the wedding in arknasas, "what does she have that you can't get out of a black girl" ****.

it's not so much that she is racist, I cut my mom some slack because of her experience with white men when it comes to relationships (She's half white and her dad basically ran off and didn't see her until she was grown).. but still.. let's not paint a picture like black people are the only ones that get it. And you know what.. never a peep out of my wife. doesn't like it, but she understands she can't make everyone happy. Not only does she not mind she still encourages me to try to have a relationship with my mom even when I don't want to.

so basically you need to suck it up and go talk to more women.

 

[Aaron B]

yeah but do you really want to meet the parents?

serious question

 

[NotAgain]

Take it from an asian my friend, we have it pretty hard here too. Thing is though, you just got to work with the cards you are played in life. I've found though confidence has alot with how you are percieved. If you walk into a party with your head up high, talk to everyone and can take the mickey out of yourself your social value at the whole party escalates. So many times I have seen other asians shy away into the corner and end up reaffirming their stereotype and not getting any action with girls. But those few no matter what color who thrust themselves into the limelight, are friendly and at the same time have game, have woman attracted no matter what.

I have never invited any previous girlfriends in the past to meet my parents. That is a pretty big step hey not to mention hers was a sudden situation. I mean you would probably have to be in a long term relationship for that to happen and surely with marriage in the thoughts. So don't stress, I'm sure thats how she felt.

You'll be fine just don't let yourself be knocked down by these things. Also remember there are more things to woman in life. Your hobbies aren't racist. Neither is your job. Work and enjoy them and life is made even better.

 

[Bible_Belt]

I think you are reading too much into the situation.

me too

 

[PrettyBoyAJ]

Your lacking confidence. Make sure your confidence is strong no matter what and it will solve a lot of your problems. Some days I feel like my game is off because I always don't get every girl that I spit too. My confidence lacks for a couple minute when I think about it. But after a good ol sleep I rub it off, get my swagger back and go on with my life with the same confidence which gets me the majority of the girls. Just remember that you can always step your game up.

I like to read these forums and listen to a few podcasts because I feel that I can step my game up. Not just for woman but just for life in general. Once you have something going for you more confidence will automatically be there. I'm African-American too brotha. I've been denied by snowbunnies before too. It's nothing. Just keep moving.

 

[Desert_DJ]

I am not black but my boy is and yes it is pretty sad how far we haven't come in this country. We work together and see some **** every day. Example: he knows as much as I do, is every bit as professional and dresses better than me. Still, people often go out of their way to hand me the money or merchandise like what, he's gonna steal from them or something? Well we can't save all the starving children anymore than we can educate all of the ignorant people of the world. The problem is that people fear what they don't understand and disguise fear with hate...

Anyways yeah, you gotta focus on what you can control and that is you. Specifically developing a radar for girls who have been "touched" his term for those who like black men when they themselves are of an ethnicity other than yours. They rarely settle for men who aren't black.

As for POF, just keep clicking on the meetme thing. Trying to message a lot of women is way too time consuming and the success rate IME doesn't justify the time investment.

 

[FairShake]

After doing some research, I came across this study from OK Cupid. I'm sure everyone has seen this by now. It breaks down a chart of message reception rates for both men and women by race. I've heard many of my friends share their success stories with online dating, and now I see why. Statistically by message reception rates, white men (29.2%) are by far the most desired demographic. Black men (21.7%) only edge out Indians (20.8%) for the dubious distinction as the least desired demographic. Black men do well in attracting only one group - the black woman (28% reception rate). However, of all groups, the black woman is least receptive to the black man.

Not for nothing but girls on the internet aren't the type that go for Black guys. I'm not sure that's racism but possibly a matter of taste. You go to clubs in the city and Black guys, arguably, have as good or better a shot as any other race. Get in where you fit in.

 

[backbreaker]

Not for nothing but girls on the internet aren't the type that go for Black guys. I'm not sure that's racism but possibly a matter of taste. You go to clubs in the city and Black guys, arguably, have as good or better a shot as any other race. Get in where you fit in.

lol NOTHING could be further from the truth.

I terrorized an online forum full of white women to the point where the guys basically ganged together and tried to have me banned. lol couldn't stand it.

I never seriously dated any of them but I got a good 4 plates out of that place lol. horse racing forum, where a bunch of women/girls met. one after a another. bam, bam, bam. It was actually kinda funny becuase the more the guys would talk **** about me the more women would throw IOI's at me. like it was having the opposite affect.


You know what this conversation seriously reminds me of? The dude in the gym, who hasn't really worked out long enough to really build a solid core yet, and becuase he wants say, big arms, he's just going to load up on arm exercises lol despite everyone else telling him to build a solid foundation first.

Gaming and bodybuilding/weight lifting have a lot of similarities. The point about the weight lifter is, if you don't work out this probably went over your head, but you can't tell what is and is not seriously lagging, until you have built a very strong core and become very used to your body. Just because your arms are lagging doesn't mean your arms are the weak point, it could be your chest, it could be your lats, especially when you are dealing with compound exercises and what not.

you don't know enough about women yet or gaming these women to know why they aren't into you. the only thing you can do at this point is keep it simple. talk to women, go on dates. talk to women go on dates. that's yoru core right now. talk to women, go on dates. after a while you will start to pick up on ****.' You can't possibly know what's happening and why you are getting rejected until you have had some success, and the only way you can have success is keep grinding.

What's up with you guys and these sweeping ass generalizations. you should know better than that.

 

[Iceberg]

Not for nothing but girls on the internet aren't the type that go for Black guys. I'm not sure that's racism but possibly a matter of taste. You go to clubs in the city and Black guys, arguably, have as good or better a shot as any other race. Get in where you fit in.

I disagree. I've pulled a great number of plates off of online dating.

If you have some type of thug vibe, then online might not work for you. But that would go for white dudes too. Online is about being about to communicate well, and the thug stuff doesn't translate to online dating.

 

[backseatjuan]

Could I choose a black wife and have black children with her? No. Issue is not a color either. You see, black people never left Africa and never had ice age, they could just run up to pray and stab it, all the while white people had ice age in Europe, they had to use brain to device traps. Thus, no wonder it is a scientific fact that blacks have much smaller brain. I do not want my children to be disadvantaged with smaller brains.

YOU are probably dreaming of a white wife and want children with her? I know that. Because that way your children would have a better future.

See how simple everything is when you take away social conditioning, i.e. racism, and speak the truth!


FACT IS: You as a black man living in America is put into more advantageous position than a white man.
FACT IS: You wouldn't have a problem if you'd mingle with black women.
FACT IS: You want what you can't have, a white woman.


If there wasn't so much feminism in America, you'd follow the path of a tourist, any tourist, caught trying to mingle in United Arab Emirates.


FACT IS: Black people are much more tribal and racist than the average feminized white American idiot.