Opting out of "the game"

[gb788]

I am a latecomer to recognizing how manipulative people really are, and frankly, I don't really see the point of life if everybody is trying to one-up each other and nobody can be trusted.

I am wondering if there are those among you who feel the same way as I do. I don't have the f***ing time to think about every scenario and try to manipulate everybody around me. I'd much rather be a good person mentally, physically, socially, financially, etc.

But here's the deal. It seems that no matter who you are or how good you are, you can become victim to others playing these stupid worthless games.

Let's take a 6'3" 250lb. genius multi-billionaire who's friendly to everybody he meets and has a strong mindset. Now, you say, this guy won't get sh#t, right? WRONG. It has taken me this long to realize that no matter how good you are, there is always somebody trying to make you look like a complete idiot. So the truth is, this guy could come off as a complete (albeit smart, rich, etc.) idiot and lonely loser if somebody is persuasive enough in convincing everybody that is what he is.

Here's another thing: it seems the only way to stop people giving you sh#t is to give them sh#t right back. They put you down, you put them down. WELL WHAT'S THE POINT OF THAT? I really don't want to contribute to the very reason why this world is such a crappy place to live. Frankly, I feel sorry for a lot of other people and don't have the heart to put them down --- yet, it seems I'm one of the few who has this problem.

Can somebody help me here? Because I have this utterly pessimistic view of the world now, and frankly, suicide isn't seeming the worst option. I have to get myself out of this mess. Is there ANYBODY who can look at the world and deal with it in a positive light? Please share.

 

[Tazman]

Everyone "manipulates" others, including you. Sure, you may not do it in a malicious way, but you do/say things to people in order to get a desired outcome, many times this is done "subconsciously".

Life isn't meant to be easy, if it were we probably wouldn't be having this discussion and there would be no reason to evolve and/or adapt to changes in the environment, whatever that may be.

You will be tested in various ways throughout your life so you might as well do what you have to in order to make the best of things, no one is above this, no matter how easy it seems some people have it, everyone has to carve their own way through life.

For every unique problem you think you have there's always someone out there who has it ten times worse. You have to remember that you're a human being just like the people out there you despise.

The first step I had to take in making positive changes in my life was to stop feeling sorry for myself because ultimately no one is going to care about me more than me.

 

[gb788]

I'm not sure you understood the point of my message.

Everyone "manipulates" others, including you. Sure, you may not do it in a malicious way, but you do/say things to people in order to get a desired outcome, many times this is done "subconsciously".

PRECISELY. This is exactly the point of my post. The only way to "win" at this game is to be MASTER MANIPULATOR, or in other words MASTER *******. Yes, everybody manipulates. And that is exactly why I ask myself what is the F***ing point. In order to win at this game, I've got to screw a whole bunch of other people.

I grew up believing in "turn the other cheek" or in other words, don't manipulate. And I can tell you, I got reamed for it. I mean, look what happened to Jesus. He got crucified.

As far as manipulation, I am not claiming I am perfect, but I have had plenty of opportunities to put others down, and I didn't take them. And guess what? Because I didn't take them, these people ripped into me. The only way to win at this game is to be cruel.

So this brings me to my point. I don't want to do it. Honestly guys, I'm near to the point of suicide. People have given me so much crap. And yet I 9/10 times have more "things" (physically, mentally, financially, etc.) going for myself than the person who is giving me crap. I finally realized the reason they give me crap is because I don't play much game. Because I don't give people much crap in return. I'm "nice."

So that's the point. I don't want to change. I don't want to live a life where I end up screwing everybody over to "win." Thread by thread by thread in this forum is filled with examples of women screwing over other men, and the best advice anybody has to offer is "Don't hate the game. Wish you were better."

Yeah, well, what if you don't want to be better at it because you want to associate with people who keep this "game" crap to a minimum. I don't want to associate myself with dirty, money-grubbing, selfish, *****y *****s for the sole purpose of having sex. What kind of life is that?

 

[yuppaz]

I think you are making way too much of this and that you are forgetting the whole meaning of what "game" actually is. It is a game that we didn't create, it was created by women to find the best men to f*ck, to be with long term in a solid relationship or to use as ATM machines. Not everyone plays, but just because they do doesn't mean they are bad, they are just trying to win and find desirable people, sometimes try to be in control and use others. My experience so far is that if you don't play, you don't get the winners that you want (aka beautiful feminine women) because they DO separate the wheat from the chaff. If you want a leach girl, bpd etc. then you don't have to play. As players in that game, our goal is to win. To not be someones bank machine, I basically just go about my life and I try to meet women that I wanna f*ck, I use my own (sh*tty I might add) "game" to meet them and get them interested enough so that I don't need to use any game at all anymore. Some guys I know have control issues and will run their game because they love the feeling of being in control, that is manipulation for it's own sake.

You are going WAYYYYYYY to f*cking far with what this is and what it means, this is about being more successful with the mysterious creatures that are women. Don't wanna play, go meet someone awesome, tell them that you are soooo into them and watch as they think you are needy, and never call you back....then when one of the leach girls does, you will be thrilled and live in misery until you wise up.

If you are this frustrated, just take a break from dating man! Big f*ckin deal......

 

[Jeffst1980]

Whoa man. It's not that bad--the world has a ton of good in it.

You certainly don't need to deceive others to have a happy, successful life. The scenario you pose (smart rich guy destroyed by conniving bad guy) actually doesn't happen--when those guys get brought down (e.g. bernie madoff), it is through their own fault. One bitter loudmouth can't drown out a chorus of supporters, and those that set out to humiliate others are usually so transparent that they are seldom taken seriously.

The way to stop people from giving you s#it is to cut them out of your life. If you put them down, you are only giving them more ammunition for next time. People that try to provoke a response from you are setting a trap, and the only way you win is not to play. Ever see a high status man start insulting a reporter/ photographer? They usually come off looking insecure and decidedly not alpha. If you give them nothing, they'll realize you can't be played and move on to a more receptive target.

If you live your life relatively honest about your intentions and are kind to others, you will have a much more positive experience in life. You still need to learn the games people play to protect yourself, but you don't need to alter your own personal ethics. You will find that you will naturally attract more honest, kind people into your own life, and this is absolutely crucial. Life is who you know, and what you do together. Despite the belief that humans are completely selfish, we have seen time after time that, faced with a grave crisis, humans have bonded together and cared for one another.

I don't idolize guys like Mystery (although I appreciate his amazing contributions). I'd much rather live like the happy natural that doesn't overthink everything and sees the good in others, instead of fixating on their flaws. Life is a beautiful journey, and even uncomfortable emotions such as sadness and anger are valuable to us, because they inform us of the indescribable wonder of what it means to be human. It is a personal experience, but also one we share with everyone who has ever lived. On this level, no one is truly alone.

Go with your instinct and focus on who YOU are as a man. Don't spend undue time worrying about what others do or trying to be "alpha." Become the person YOU want to be, and attract the women YOU want to be with. Remember--everything is filtered through perspective. There IS no "objective truth" about anything. You come to find your OWN truth through experience; until then, everything you read on this site is hearsay.

Read the Book of Pook again. Then, only read this site recreationally--it's a big world and there's much to be done.

 

[forward]

Games are fun!

1) Accept that you are playing a game (One big game: Life -- comprised of many interrelated sub-games: Power/Money Game, Sex/Dating Game, etc). No, you cannot opt out of the game. You can ignore it, or whine about it, but both are losing strategies (and seriously hinder your enjoyment of everything).
2) Learn to appreciate the game for what it is. It's really not so bad. In fact, it's not bad at all: it's damn fun! What kind of boring experience were you hoping life to be? A game is much funner. And be glad you're finally aware of the game and so can finally begin to....
3) Master the Game. As you improve, even future "losses" will seem like "wins" when held up against your current results. Once you are fully "playing", every day will be exciting.

Stop viewing the world through the fog of morality; see circumstance clearly.
Have fun.

 

[Tazman]

I guess I was looking more at the bigger picture, because the statements you made about "manipulation" don't just apply when dealing with women and sex. If you're contemplating suicide because you don't want to play "games" this goes deeper than just getting some ass.

You can't expect to get what you want by being passive, but that doesn't mean you need to go to extremes either. It seems like you're torn between what you consider good and bad behavior, and it sounds like your views are strongly based on religion.

I'm an agnostic so I don't have the perceived limitations on what is considered moral or immoral that seem to be inherent with a lot of religious beliefs out there.

Our views are ultimately coming from different places which makes it hard to get the point across.

This is not a personal attack at all, but I believe you're problem is due to a lack of confidence and it manifests itself through blaming the world for why things seem so f-cked up for you personally.

You don't have to be some kind of maniacal mad scientist developing ways of manipulating people to do your bidding, but at the same time you have to find ways of getting what you want out of life (women) by arming yourself with the knowledge of why they do the things they do and how you'll use that knowledge to maximize your benefit.

 

[Luthor Rex]

So this brings me to my point. I don't want to do it. Honestly guys, I'm near to the point of suicide. People have given me so much crap. And yet I 9/10 times have more "things" (physically, mentally, financially, etc.) going for myself than the person who is giving me crap. I finally realized the reason they give me crap is because I don't play much game. Because I don't give people much crap in return. I'm "nice."

I've had similar experiences in the past, so I'll assume you're right. I have taken crap from people who were obviously below me. They were uglier, they were dumber, one was a child abandoning alcoholic. Of course I thought to myself "how dare these people judge me". Unlike you though, I did give them **** right back.

But I disagree with why you think these people do this stuff. I think they do it because somewhere inside of them they realize that they can't compete on a level playing field with you. Which is why they put you down. They know you are their better and this is the only way for them to get at you.

So that's the point. I don't want to change. I don't want to live a life where I end up screwing everybody over to "win." Thread by thread by thread in this forum is filled with examples of women screwing over other men, and the best advice anybody has to offer is "Don't hate the game. Wish you were better."

On a larger scale, the parts of American culture where it's dog eat dog really do need to be crushed. How that will happen I don't know, but it has happened before in history and can happen again.

For your own sanity I'll make a recommendation. I don't know where you are located but I suspect you are probably in or near a large city on the East or West coast. Do yourself a favor and start traveling. See how other people in other parts of the country live.

Right now I live in the People's Republic of Maryland, but I am in the process of escaping. Been here on and off most of my life. After traveling to other states in the U.S. I've come to realize just what kind of sh!thole this place really is. Sometimes, it's not you, sometimes it really is the people you live around. While I didn't write any of these posts, I do agree with them in how they describe the MD / DC area.

If you think that you're the sane one, you may very well be. Escape where you are living as soon as you can.

Yeah, well, what if you don't want to be better at it because you want to associate with people who keep this "game" crap to a minimum. I don't want to associate myself with dirty, money-grubbing, selfish, *****y *****s for the sole purpose of having sex. What kind of life is that?

It's a sh!thole of a life, but for many people that is all there is.

 

[gb788]

The scenario you pose (smart rich guy destroyed by conniving bad guy) actually doesn't happen--when those guys get brought down (e.g. bernie madoff), it is through their own fault. One bitter loudmouth can't drown out a chorus of supporters, and those that set out to humiliate others are usually so transparent that they are seldom taken seriously.

Actually, it does happen, and it happened to me. I lost a fortune. 5 years of my life - GONE. And it seemed the better off I was financially, physically, etc. the more insults I got, and the more people I knew were trying to bring me down. And yes, they did win. They RUINED me. And yes, this is a big reason why I am feeling this way. It has happened many more times than once... I know this sounds like victim mentality, but I didn't have that. I would build myself up (not passive), and people kept getting worse.

I have a bunch more to reply to in your post, and saw that others posted, but I have to head out for now.

 

[Luthor Rex]

The way to stop people from giving you s#it is to cut them out of your life. If you put them down, you are only giving them more ammunition for next time. People that try to provoke a response from you are setting a trap, and the only way you win is not to play. Ever see a high status man start insulting a reporter/ photographer? They usually come off looking insecure and decidedly not alpha. If you give them nothing, they'll realize you can't be played and move on to a more receptive target.

The kinds of "people" the OP describes are not like this at all. Instead they'll see you as an easy target who won't fight back; which is exactly what you are.

If you live your life relatively honest about your intentions and are kind to others, you will have a much more positive experience in life.

Bullsh!t. This is not a Just World. Bad people aren't punished, good people aren't rewarded.

There IS no "objective truth" about anything. You come to find your OWN truth through experience;

Oh dear god. If there was no absolute truth then nothing in science would work. If there was no objective reality your cell phone wouldn't work, your computer wouldn't work. There is one world, one reality, one truth -- it can be known to us and it exists independently of our wishes and desires -- the Greeks proved it 2,000 years ago an no girly new age bullsh!t can stop it.

 

[Luthor Rex]

When someone says "life is a game" they are letting you know they are too brutally retarded to take anything seriously.

Stop viewing the world through the fog of morality; see circumstance clearly.
Have fun.

It seems like you're torn between what you consider good and bad behavior, and it sounds like your views are strongly based on religion.

His views are probably based on the fact that he is not a sociopath.

For either of these "men" who posted crap about being 'too moral', we all know that if they were robbed or their g/f's raped they would be the first ones running to the police like the hypocrites they are. If you really believed there was no right and wrong then when you are robbed or assaulted then there is no reason to do anything because nothing bad happened.

OP do yourself a favor: whenever you meet someone who talks about how you are being "too moral" or that there "is no right and wrong" RUN THE OTHER FVCKING WAY. These kinds of people will cut your throat for a buck and think nothing of it. They will try to convince you it's all "a game" so that you won't be bothered when they are raping your mother. They think this way to blunt the fact that their lives are horror shows as well as to be able to do whatever crazy womanly bullsh!t they want to not have anyone judge them for it.

 

[Jeffst1980]

Bullsh!t. This is not a Just World. Bad people aren't punished, good people aren't rewarded.

That's not my point. The point is that as you think you shall become. If you see life as a antagonistic struggle against the rest of humanity and need to rely on taking advantage of others to be successful, you will never find peace in this world. You will breed resentment among those you've wronged, and live your life sleeping with one eye open.

"Turning the other cheek" doesn't have to mean submitting to others--it means to accept that life isn't fair and persevere anyway. There's no use complaining about anything, and no point trying to get the last word on your enemies--just focus on finding your own solutions and your own happiness.

Gb788 - I am sorry you had to face such a harrowing ordeal. I think you need to elucidate more of the details, though. How did you lose this fortune? What was the motivation of those that wanted to ruin you?

 

[forward]

Originally posted by Luther Rex
When someone says "life is a game" they are letting you know they are too brutally retarded to take anything seriously.

You can't take a game seriously? Identifying something as a game means you no longer care about the results? Your entire mindset becomes: "la la la, it's playtime, nothing matters, la de da." Please.

Originally posted by Luther Rex
For either of these "men" who posted crap about being 'too moral', we all know that if they were robbed or their g/f's raped they would be the first ones running to the police like the hypocrites they are. If you really believed there was no right and wrong then when you are robbed or assaulted then there is no reason to do anything because nothing bad happened.

Hmm... now speaking of retarded....
But "seriously", what does "the evil sociopath" care if he is (morally) a hypocrite? If being a hypocrite gets him the results he desires, then a hypocrite he shall be. He will easily call the police to enforce laws he may not believe in or practice, so long as it serves his own ends. And you think our crafty villain wouldn't respond to an attack because "nothing bad happened"? Morals need not enter into play, you can view the situation as circumstance: He was attacked! And now he will respond using his full resources and cunning. He doesn't ponder what will make him "a good person", but rather what will "work" (towards his desires, "winning" the game, etc).

Don't get the law confused with morality. And certainly don't think that removing the veil of morality turns someone smart enough to do so into a killer and rapist. Seriously, is that any way to play a game?

 

[Warrior74]

"Turn the Other Cheek" Awsome manipulation technique.

Not only does it show restraint and power. It belittles the other person at the same time. "I am above what you just did to me, and I am strong enough to take it".

it also goes well with these laws of the 48 Laws of Power

Use the Surrender Tactic: Transform Weakness into Power

When you are weaker, never fight for honor’s sake; choose surrender instead. Surrender gives you time to recover, time to torment and irritate your conqueror, time to wait for his power to wane. Do not give him the satisfaction of fighting and defeating you – surrender first. By turning the other check you infuriate and unsettle him. Make surrender a tool of power.

Be Royal in your Own Fashion: Act like a King to be treated like one

The way you carry yourself will often determine how you are treated; In the long run, appearing vulgar or common will make people disrespect you. For a king respects himself and inspires the same sentiment in others. By acting regally and confident of your powers, you make yourself seem destined to wear a crown

Work on the Hearts and Minds of Others

Coercion creates a reaction that will eventually work against you. You must seduce others into wanting to move in your direction. A person you have seduced becomes your loyal pawn. And the way to seduce others is to operate on their individual psychologies and weaknesses. Soften up the resistant by working on their emotions, playing on what they hold dear and what they fear. Ignore the hearts and minds of others and they will grow to hate you.


Jesus knew the game. He was up against the worlds largest superpower. He was cruxified because he was playing for different stakes. You think he couldn't have won the game that others were playing? He already had power, he wasn't after power. Understand that first.

as for you....

So this brings me to my point. I don't want to do it. Honestly guys, I'm near to the point of suicide. People have given me so much crap. And yet I 9/10 times have more "things" (physically, mentally, financially, etc.) going for myself than the person who is giving me crap. I finally realized the reason they give me crap is because I don't play much game. Because I don't give people much crap in return. I'm "nice."

Cut this person out of your life. Harden up and be a man. If they give you **** and they are not your family or boss, leave them alone. If they are in your social circle, embarrass the hell out of them. You ever heard the phrase what's good for the goose? I mean are you gonna be a pvssy your whole life? A man has to fight for what he wants in this world, that's our job. Fighting for respect, honor, women, power...peace, what ever it is you seek in this life is a struggle, there is nothing easy in achievement. (and by fight I don't mean going columbine or punching people out) I mean struggling to mentally and physically get to where you want to be. This is your challenge in life as a man. What is it that you want? And what are you willing to do to get it? If you are willing to do nothing, you deserve nothing.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

I was about to say the OP should read 48 Laws of Power. In the introduction Greene goes into one of the unwritten laws in that denying or disqualifying the influence or importance of power is in itself a manipulation of power. You can't extricate yourself from the "game" - you can only attempt to change the rules to better fit your skills, or you can learn to play it better. This doesn't mean you must be immoral or unscrupulous in your practice, but it is to say that you must always be AWARE of how others will attempt to use power to manipulate you. Don't wish it were easier, wish you were better.

I'm a firm believer in enlightened self-interest; I cannot help anyone until I've helped myself. The disconnect comes from those who don't help others once they do establish a position of being beneficial. There are higher aspects of our nature that we aspire to and are useful to us in the bigger scheme of things. However, I think it's far healthier to accept and live with both our base (primitive, biological, animal) nature and our higher nature (honor, ethics, integrity) than to deny one in favor of another.

 

[Warrior74]

I'm a firm believer in enlightened self-interest; I cannot help anyone until I've helped myself.

Thessalonians (3:10) “… If anyone will not work, neither shall he eat.” This applies to everything in life. No work, no results.

 

[Tazman]

This is not a Just World. Bad people aren't punished, good people aren't rewarded.

What exactly is a "Just World" and why would such a thing ever exist?

For either of these "men" who posted crap about being 'too moral', we all know that if they were robbed or their g/f's raped they would be the first ones running to the police like the hypocrites they are. If you really believed there was no right and wrong then when you are robbed or assaulted then there is no reason to do anything because nothing bad happened.

You obviously don't comprehend what's been said and are taking things out of context with this extremely simplistic reasoning. "Right" and "wrong" is a belief, nothing more. I have my own opinions of what I feel is right and wrong as does everyone else, of course there are those who feel "their" opinion is the only right one to have.

If I was ever involved with someone close to me who was raped or I myself were robbed/assaulted I guarantee you "morality" would be the furthest thing from my mind.

You don't have to be a sociopath to deal with the bullsh-t people will inevitably throw your way, but at the same time if you don't learn how to handle it you will always suffer.

 

[gb788]

Guys, I've already read 48 Laws of Power. And the story is too complex to post here. There has been some useful advice, but I'm afraid I need to turn elsewhere where I can reveal more details.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Tell the gals at Love Shack we said "hi".

 

[Warrior74]

Guys, I've already read 48 Laws of Power. And the story is too complex to post here. There has been some useful advice, but I'm afraid I need to turn elsewhere where I can reveal more details.

Go to therapy and get some help man. Good luck.