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Open Discussion about this Red Pill Truth

New_Journey

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I like this post from @BackInTheGame78

Too many men shift their focus from themselvess and the drive and ambition in what they are working on and towards to the woman.

Big mistake.

Note that I am not saying don't make time for them, but there is a difference between making time for them and putting off things that you would normally be doing and focusing on to be with them at the expense of yourself.

There is a balance that needs to be struck and the balance should be in favor of your interests with her believing that any time with you is super valuable.

She should do more of the schedule rearranging to be with you. She should do more of the canceling of plans to be with you. You should do more of the canceling plans with her to focus on yourself and the things you have going on.

I'm not saying this is 100-0. In every relationship there needs to be some give...but when you DO rearrange things for her it should be such a huge win for her that she is over the moon, not something where she just expects it because you do it all the time.

I'd say probably 70-30 or 65-35 in your favor is around the right balance...60-40 is probably the lowest it should go.

A woman can't view you as a "catch" if she has unfettered access to your time and you are constantly making time to be with her instead of the other way around. She will start wondering why you have so much time for her and why you aren't spending that time doing things you were when she first met you and start seeing you as lacking ambition or drive.

Women always WANT you to spend more time with them and will many times complain and b!tch to their friends about it, but they view a man as weak and easily controlled when they give in quickly to them.

I wouldn't say it's a test necessarily because I don't think it's something they consciously do, but it essentially becomes one over time.

And it goes back to life lessons that help in all situations:

That which is easily obtained has little value. That which has to be worked hard for and a lot of effort expended to get is inherently seen as more valuable. Both to the person for the investment they put into obtaining it and it's overall worth.
These were one Red Pill Truth that opened my eyes. Do you remember when you though the opposite? I myself have made this mistake before, cause of that I learned.

Now I ask you, did you also make these mistakes? Or you learned them by reading and then not doing them?
 

Plinco

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The principle at work here is acting selfishly. I've been learning this in more detail as I've gotten older. I had a customer yesterday who thought I was asking too much money for mowing one of his properties. If I were to give in and lowered my price, he would have been happy but wouldn't have respected by time and effort as much as I would have liked, that's why I did not budge.

I'll give you another example that just happened today. A group of acquaintances wanted me to hang out with them at this festival in a park. Yes there was a lot of people there, but I noticed that there was an absence of 18-22 year old women and I was also not in the mood to pay five bucks just to stand around and talk. So instead I explored the rest of the park looking for different species of trees (that I do as a hobby).
 

BackInTheGame78

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I like this post from @BackInTheGame78


These were one Red Pill Truth that opened my eyes. Do you remember when you though the opposite? I myself have made this mistake before, cause of that I learned.

Now I ask you, did you also make these mistakes? Or you learned them by reading and then not doing them?
I made these mistakes so many times and for so many years that I honestly look back and almost want to puke at the way I once was. While I was a DJ in big nightclubs, it covered up a lot of these things because it mattered less, but once I stopped DJing and didn't have that in my back pocket to rely on, I came to some pretty harsh realizations.

Just came to a point where I knew I wasn't where I wanted to be in that aspect of my life and started looking for answers and it led me to this forum.

Took a few years of working on this pretty hard for it to start to take hold and every now and then I still find myself having to catch old behaviors that want to come back.

I always say smart people learn from other people's mistakes rather than their own and if I can save even one guy from doing some of the stuff that didn't work out well for me, that's what I want to do...

But at the end of the day, everyone is different and trial and error has to happen too for them to figure out how to best use it to their advantage.

I strongly believe that a large part of a woman's attraction to a man over them becomes her ability to "look up to him", almost as if she is putting YOU in a pedestal. Every woman wants to be with a man she can be proud of and can brag to her friends and family about. No woman wants to go home and tell her family "I'm dating some loser".

The more she can look up to you and brag about you to her friends and family, the deeper in you are with her and the more leash you have.

I'm at the point now where when a woman asks for me to be exclusive with her and I am interested in that over a period of time getting to know her well enough to agree, I lay my cards on the table and tell her

"Here is what I have going on in my life right now and what I am going to be striving towards over the next "x" number of years. That's the most important thing to me. If you want to be a part of that, then that's great, I would enjoy that. If you are going to need more than what I can offer, in terms of time or being able to be around more often, then I understand that too and maybe I am not the guy for you then."

Then I shut up and let her respond. Not one time have they wanted to walk away...they all have excitedly told me they want in.

Then I simply hold them to that. I am at a point in my life where I would rather lose them early on than have them waste my time and cause me headaches during the time they are there.
 
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BackInTheGame78

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The principle at work here is acting selfishly. I've been learning this in more detail as I've gotten older. I had a customer yesterday who thought I was asking too much money for mowing one of his properties. If I were to give in and lowered my price, he would have been happy but wouldn't have respected by time and effort as much as I would have liked, that's why I did not budge.

I'll give you another example that just happened today. A group of acquaintances wanted me to hang out with them at this festival in a park. Yes there was a lot of people there, but I noticed that there was an absence of 18-22 year old women and I was also not in the mood to pay five bucks just to stand around and talk. So instead I explored the rest of the park looking for different species of trees (that I do as a hobby).
I wouldn't say selfishly. The connotation with that is that you are doing something bad and that you only care about yourself. That is NOT what I am saying. This may work for a short time but it things will quickly go south of you act that way all the time. This would be doing things in your favor 100-0 or 95-5.

Not at all what I am espousing. I would call it acting more independently and/or autonomously.
 

Plinco

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I wouldn't say selfishly. The connotation with that is that you are doing something bad and that you only care about yourself. That is NOT what I am saying. This may work for a short time but it things will quickly go south of you act that way all the time. This would be doing things in your favor 100-0 or 95-5.

Not at all what I am espousing. I would call it acting more independently and/or autonomously.
That implied connotation is conflating selfishness with hedonism, or short shortsightedness. There's such a thing as acting in your long term self interest, which is what I think you are getting at when you say acting more independently and/or autonomously.
 

It doesn't matter how good-looking you are, how romantic you are, how funny you are... or anything else. If she doesn't have something INVESTED in you and the relationship, preferably quite a LOT invested, she'll dump you, without even the slightest hesitation, as soon as someone a little more "interesting" comes along.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

Clockwerk50

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At a young age, we are naturally narcissistic. As children, we go through a phase where we want to monopolize our parents’ attention, focusing primarily on our own needs and desires. We are self-contained and self-involved, where the world revolves around us. As we grow older, this self-centeredness often shifts but still persists at the core; we become more concerned with our own tastes, opinions, and experiences. Even though it's socially unacceptable and we are sometimes ashamed of it, these instincts still linger in the background.

However, over time, society socializes us and teaches us to be more attuned to others, to care for and attend to the needs of those around us, even when doing so suppresses our own. In today’s world, the lesson many men learn is that they must be "nice" to women in order to build romantic relationships. This mindset leads to what’s called “covert contracts.” These are unspoken, hidden agreements where a man gives more of his time, energy, and attention with the expectation that it will be reciprocated in a relationship, without clearly communicating that expectation. These covert contracts often lead to frustration because the woman might not even be aware of the "deal," or the man’s efforts may not be acknowledged or valued in the way he hoped.

In light of what @BackInTheGame78 mentioned, this is a mistake because it places too much focus on the woman at the expense of one's own goals and ambitions. While it’s important to make time for someone you care about, the balance should always favor your own personal growth and pursuits. If you give too much of yourself away too easily, you risk losing that sense of value and ambition that initially attracted her. The relationship should feel like a choice, not an obligation—something that requires effort, mutual respect, and a healthy amount of space.

Doing the opposite is what people call being a doormat. These are men who imitate the person they like, become their slave, and lose the ability to form their own ideas or stand up for themselves—all just to gain their attention. They are often incapable of disagreeing with the opposite party because they fear losing that connection. This behavior not only diminishes their self-worth but also ultimately undermines the value of the relationship itself.
 

Plinco

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At a young age, we are naturally narcissistic. As children, we go through a phase where we want to monopolize our parents’ attention, focusing primarily on our own needs and desires. We are self-contained and self-involved, where the world revolves around us. As we grow older, this self-centeredness often shifts but still persists at the core; we become more concerned with our own tastes, opinions, and experiences. Even though it's socially unacceptable and we are sometimes ashamed of it, these instincts still linger in the background.

However, over time, society socializes us and teaches us to be more attuned to others, to care for and attend to the needs of those around us, even when doing so suppresses our own. In today’s world, the lesson many men learn is that they must be "nice" to women in order to build romantic relationships. This mindset leads to what’s called “covert contracts.” These are unspoken, hidden agreements where a man gives more of his time, energy, and attention with the expectation that it will be reciprocated in a relationship, without clearly communicating that expectation. These covert contracts often lead to frustration because the woman might not even be aware of the "deal," or the man’s efforts may not be acknowledged or valued in the way he hoped.

In light of what @BackInTheGame78 mentioned, this is a mistake because it places too much focus on the woman at the expense of one's own goals and ambitions. While it’s important to make time for someone you care about, the balance should always favor your own personal growth and pursuits. If you give too much of yourself away too easily, you risk losing that sense of value and ambition that initially attracted her. The relationship should feel like a choice, not an obligation—something that requires effort, mutual respect, and a healthy amount of space.

Doing the opposite is what people call being a doormat. These are men who imitate the person they like, become their slave, and lose the ability to form their own ideas or stand up for themselves—all just to gain their attention. They are often incapable of disagreeing with the opposite party because they fear losing that connection. This behavior not only diminishes their self-worth but also ultimately undermines the value of the relationship itself.
This 'covert contract' is the problem here. You see this everywhere, not just between men and women. Acting in your long term self interest is the solution because it cuts through the bs.

When I say 'long term self interest,' I mean holding yourself and those you have relationships with accountable, having people earn your trust, have relationships only with the people you want to, ect. The 'covert contract' is a tool of enslavement.

When you are giving your time and attention to a woman when it is not warranted, you are telling her, "I'm a slave, and my life is not as important as yours."

"Society" knows how to condition people for slavery; has thousands of years of experience.
 

DJ Novice

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I think the simple question you need to answer is ‘Do you live in her world or does she live in yours?’

I’ve been guilty in the past of living in her world. This breeds resentment in the long term as you end up satisfying her needs, wants and dreams at the expense of your own. Simping represents the extreme end of this spectrum. Her living in your world is where you want to be.
 

BadBoy89

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I agree with this entire thread IF the women is OVER 30. If she is UNDER 25, a man should spend AS MUCH time with her as he can.

A woman's youth is very valuable, its rare and its a depreciating asset.
 

plumber

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Now I ask you, did you also make these mistakes? Or you learned them by reading and then not doing them?
Most men would not ever find these topics unless they are having trouble.

The reading would not make sense to someone that does not have direct experience. It is opposite of everything that is usually taught to the young in western culture. At extremes it can be ugly to understand that reality is not what you think. There is no first will be last and so on, first will be first.

Understanding what we are is a sad thing to accept. materialism vs duality consciousness. Our culture taught us duality. Biology will teach materialism, and RP is the evidence.

So many wanted the Disney dream.

Its not about good or bad or shame or ... Its just what we are, so might as well be good at it.
 

BackInTheGame78

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I agree with this entire thread IF the women is OVER 30. If she is UNDER 25, a man should spend AS MUCH time with her as he can.

A woman's youth is very valuable, its rare and its a depreciating asset.
Great way to be seen as a guy who has nothing else going on in his life.
 

Chow Mein

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Women latch on to a successful man, take a look in the mirror and ask yourself if you are.

Success does not come from your notch count, rather far from it. It is the life you have already built around you, your living environment/location, your hobbies and lifestyle, etc. If you are not confident in those aspects and have the ambition for becoming greater, women should not be on your radar.

So much FOMO goes around here that you’ll miss the 25 year old hotties because you are getting old so you need to focus on banging the now….well that’s a losing mindset, you’ll never be successful thinking like that.

What you have developed over the years will seep into how you carry yourself when approaching everyone, not just women.
 

zekko

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It's a matter of balance. Being social has its place, but so does your self improvement activities, and your own interests. Sometimes they can overlap, sometimes not. When I was working my hardest toward my career, working full time and taking classes full time, I made a conscious decision to sacrifice my dating and social life in order to meet my goals. It was temporary, and besides, there were always people to talk to at work and school. I would go out with women during summer break, and ironically it was during this time that I met one of my longest and most meaningful relationships.


So instead I explored the rest of the park looking for different species of trees (that I do as a hobby).
This is getting off topic, but I find the subject interesting. Can you recommend any reference material that is a good aid in identifying trees? This is one thing I always wished they would have taught us in school, but for whatever reason where I grew up they didn't. If nothing comes to mind, no pressure. But I thought since you do it as a hobby, you might know.
 

The Duke

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I've never been one to cater to a woman. She has to fit her world around mine. My schedule is always full with my work and hobbies. I'm probably guilty of being selfish with my time. I have priorities and there are things I'm not giving up.

I have a hobby that takes up a ton of my time that I'm highly passionate about. Women tend to love it, and I always make a spot for them. I've told many that she would always be #1, but sometimes #2(my hobby) comes before #1.

My view has always been she can come along for the ride or find somebody else. I'm looking for a supporter or we won't work.

They have all told me at some point they wanted more of my time. It is what it is, you just need the right woman. They need to want the relationship more than you do. And catering to their whim's diminishes the respect they have for you. Don't ever put puzzy on a platter. Everyone of them likes a man that stands up to them and remains somewhat of a challenge. Just let her win sometimes. A good woman wants to earn your attention and she will. That keeps her happy and focused.

Too much of either direction is not good as @zekko mentioned. I know I've pushed a few away because its usually my lifestyle that comes first.
 
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BaronOfHair

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Now I ask you, did you also make these mistakes? Or you learned them by reading and then not doing them?
Being overly available is a mistake I've made in many areas of life, not just with women: Just this afternoon, I got an email from someone who wanted to reschedule an appointment I wasn't even aware that we had tomorrow, even though I already had two events lined up for the time they wanted to meet. For a moment, I had the urge to give in*, drop everything and go along to get along ... Ultimately, I shot this person back an email which read: "Unfortunately I'm not able to reschedule tommorow"



*Such urges never leave those of us who are "recovering nice guys". We CAN become more aware of their existence though, and practice not giving into them
 

You essentially upped your VALUE in her eyes by showing her that, if she wants you, she has to at times do things that you like to do. You are SOMETHING after all. You are NOT FREE. If she wants to hang with you, it's going to cost her something — time, effort, money.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

jhonny9546

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Now I ask you, did you also make these mistakes? Or you learned them by reading and then not doing them?
My sister used to complain about her boyfriend (they were in a relationship for five years) because, on the weekends, he did nothing but hang out with friends. The two of them would go to the beach, but he would leave her with the other girls, to play soccer or tennis with his friends. Afterward, he would come back for lunch, and then they would repeat the cycle.

My sister would complain when he rested at home on the weekends or when he didn't go out with her.

He didn't indulge her; he said yes a few times, and they went somewhere together, but not very often.

But they were traveling a lot, so they were on a new place every 4 months.

Eventually, my sister started going out alone on the weekends, and now they've broken up.

So, does this suggest that my sister wasn't looking for a man of value, but rather one she could control?

In my opinion, He didn't make a mistake;
He did the right thing by sticking to his interests and not giving in.

Your thoughts
 

New_Journey

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jhonny9546

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Is your sister single now? How old is she?
Yes! 28.
She's a 8 for sure, it's a "career" woman, not a "wife" material, just because her social circle have this setup. If She lived a different scenario, with all married friends, she would probably do that.
 

New_Journey

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Yes! 28.
She's a 8 for sure, it's a "career" woman, not a "wife" material, just because her social circle have this setup. If She lived a different scenario, with all married friends, she would probably do that.
Yeah that sucks man, you sister is very unhappy even thought they all appear to be happy on social media. Everyone gets what they deserve man.
 

jhonny9546

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appear to be happy on social media
She has many men in her DMs who want to sleep with her. She told me She wants a high-status man, like a manager or CEO, with money.

Her college female friends are in toxic marriages with children. She could easily end up like them. But still that wouldn't make her happy.

I believe happiness comes from inner work, which I'm pursuing with support from others. Although I don't live the "DJ" lifestyle, I'll incorporate some of those elements into my LTR's

I believe you can create routines ("loops") to maintain happiness in LTRs by being genuine.
It's like scheduling the right events.
For this You must look at genuine LTR's, but the cool truth is that it's hard to find those.

But if you don't know what truly makes you happy, you're lost, like my sister.

For this last reason, do you think that writing things down, make sort of "moodboards" or a simple board of things that makes you happy, would actually help shape our image, visualize, create, and go back and forth to make the person we are and want to be (just like our social media does, but in a public way).?
 
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