Online Profile Review

[TooColdUlrick]

i do very little writing actually--it's all face to face--clients, women, students, whomever.

we're all in sales. if you're not selling a product or service, you are selling yourself and your ideas; and in this case, what you have to offer a chick. dress it (you) up and get the leads. then close the deal.

with online personals, too many guys are trying to close a deal (on themselves) first, when in fact they're just generating leads.

generate those leads baby.

 

[al77]

Originally posted by TooColdUlrick
i do very little writing actually--it's all face to face--clients, women, students, whomever.

we're all in sales. if you're not selling a product or service, you are selling yourself and your ideas

I have seen some sucessful and not very successful guys at toastmasters meeting: those who were good, had a quite extroverted personality, at least from a conversational point of view. This skill alone gives a huge natural DJ advantage.

But. Sales usually are much more direct: you at least know what your clients want. And what they dont want. If you are not sure, you can ask them... at least it is possible. You can easily state advatanges of you products over some other products.
(Is it feasible to do with women? No way!)
Though It is much more clear how to do, than how to convey confidence, or being funny. I am in engineering, and I dont have to sell even ideas: if my idea fits our research topic, it is accepted. If not, well... there is no way I can sell it to my boss. I guess it is just much more different environment when you work with people and I work with computers only.

 

[TooColdUlrick]

Originally posted by al77
I have seen some sucessful and not very successful guys at toastmasters meeting: those who were good, had a quite extroverted personality, at least from a conversational point of view. This skill alone gives a huge natural DJ advantage.

But. Sales usually are much more direct: you at least know what your clients want. And what they dont want. If you are not sure, you can ask them... at least it is possible. You can easily state advatanges of you products over some other products.
(Is it feasible to do with women? No way!)
Though It is much more clear how to do, than how to convey confidence, or being funny. I am in engineering, and I dont have to sell even ideas: if my idea fits our research topic, it is accepted. If not, well... there is no way I can sell it to my boss. I guess it is just much more different environment when you work with people and I work with computers only.

yes, it is very feasible with women. you sell yourself by projecting value to them, while NOT bragging. know it or not, like it or not, you are basically selling yourself to women, as they are selling themselves to men.

it's a fine art, because you never want to lead them to believe that you are in fact selling yourself. but let's face it, you are.

 

[al77]

Originally posted by TooColdUlrick
yes, it is very feasible with women. you sell yourself by projecting value to them, while NOT bragging. know it or not, like it or not, you are basically selling yourself to women, as they are selling themselves to men.

it's a fine art, because you never want to lead them to believe that you are in fact selling yourself. but let's face it, you are.

Hmm.. "projecting value". if a product has some advatanges you simply state them or do comparative advertising.
What is a product doesnt have anything advantageous? Probably the more it is exposed to buyers, the better. Sure you can add a nice image of a cool scenery or a hot chick to the commercial to project an appealing image.

When it comes to women, it is indeed fine art. If you dont have many values that women like... you cannot just "expose yourself to women more"- it would have any effect. and cannot conduct a research "what women want in man like you".
Selling is good word for what men are trying to do, thouh I have never dealt with a woman who is trying to self herself to men... well they usually dress up, put makeup and play hard to get. This strategy is over simplistic to be called "selling", plus "hard to get" doesn't fit the concept.

 

[iveyleeger]

nice work

TooColdUlrick -- Nice work with that profile. Are you up for an encore?

 

[al77]

Originally posted by TooColdUlrick

I don't do karaoke, but i'm a damn good singer--in the shower! I can cook, provided I have a cookbook handy. Not a big fan of tv+sports+beer combo, but rather, inquisitive dialog while sipping a good glass of [Cabernet]. I love art, and occasionally doodle naked women on a napkin. [Classical] is better than Pop. Dogs are better than cats. Cats are better than mice.
I am an honest and witty chap who grew up in Europe--smoldering hazel green eyes and an accent that can melt room-temperature butter.
Been doing some mountain climbing recently and love the feeling of being on top of the earth. Come along and see for yourself!
Happy thoughts, excellent conversation, great times. This is me.
Who are you?

I toned down it a little bit.. wihtout naked women.

---
"Not a typical Terminator or James Bond"
I don't do karaoke, but i'm a damn good singer - in the shower! I think it comes with love for art, so occasionally I doodle oodles of glowing stars on a napkin. I can cook if I read a book. I have tried rock climbing and I love the feeling of being on top of the steady earth. So I prefer Rock over Pop (or soda).
I am an honestly witty man who grew up in Europe, with smoldering hazel green eyes and an accent though I don't sound like Terminator or James Bond. No tv+beer+sports combo included, I rather prefer inquisitive dialog while sipping a glass of good Cabernet. Happy thoughts, excellent conversation, great times: this is me. Who are you?
---
what do you think? Still same style or I slip into AFC mode?

 

[iveyleeger]

You AFC'd it.

"Oodles of glowing stars"???

You dropped the call to action "Come along..." and the reference to naked women which lets them know you have a sexy side.

And TooColdUlrick's prose had a flow, a rhythm, that sounded a lot better to American ears . . .

Remember, this is the USA, marketing and sales is half the battle, and we delegate everything. You're an engineer. Getting a sales guy who knows how to pickup women to write you good ad copy, for free, no less, was your best move yet. Now all you gotta do is resist the urge to mess with it and you are on your way.

 

[TooColdUlrick]

Re: nice work

Originally posted by iveyleeger
TooColdUlrick -- Nice work with that profile. Are you up for an encore?

yeah sure...bring it on

 

[al77]

Originally posted by iveyleeger
You AFC'd it.

"Oodles of glowing stars"???

You dropped the call to action "Come along..." and the reference to naked women which lets them know you have a sexy side.

And TooColdUlrick's prose had a flow, a rhythm, that sounded a lot better to American ears . . .

I agree, I seem cannot think critically when I write...

Though, I have to simplify it a bit: first I cannot write as TooColdUlrick can, plus I dont do rock climbing anymore - had to drop the call "Come along...".
I'll revamp it again though I believe mentioning "naked women" in a profile says a guy has HUUUGE balls. and only some specific women would respond to such bold profile... Most women first scan profiles for some sexual stuff, if they see it, they stamp "player" and click next. If you met her in person, yeah - you can say get away with mentioning "naked women". if you say that, sure some women would happily reposnd, but I am sure they are there for just "having a good time". I personally prefer not to contact these type of women since I am not that fun party action person "just to have fun", second: I'd like to meet somebody a little bit more serious and loyal.
I would rather tease her "safely" on a date with exactly same "naked women", but I guess in a profile it is "too much".

I has a similar prolemm with my pics: they were too good and women were bugging me "did you do modelling?.. are those pics professional?"... I don't even know what to do.. get some sweatpants pics, since I sure do not dress like dresses for the pics.

 

[Bud Wiser]

I've been on Match for quite awhile and have had very good success with a virtually out-of-control, outlandish, over-the-top funny profile narrative.

I agree -- your first draft of your profile screams AFC.

Thing is, your second shot isn't much better. About all that's worth a damn from it is this bit: "I love art, and occasionally doodle naked women on a napkin. Classical is better than Pop. Dogs are better than cats. Cats are better than mice."

I kinda sings and is a little funny.

At any rate, you gotta start over. I write ads for a living and one thing I've found with personals profiles is that THEY'RE NOT ADS! Personals profile narratives are a whole NUTHER THANG and writing in this genre starts with the basic Tao of Steve Mentality:

"Be without desire. Be excellent. Be gone."

It starts with the "being without desire" part -- you simply have to write your profile with a "give a f***" attitude.
Want to know which part of your whole profile really stands out? The only truly non-boring bit? This one from under "For fun":

"Chasing race cars, looking up funny names in the phone book, taping my snoring and playing it for my voicemail greeting"

If I only read that part, I'd be left with the impression of, "hey This Guy sounds like fun." Which is exactly what you want. Your assignment:

Be This Guy -- and only This Guy -- and write another narrative. If any part of it comes off like it's not This Guy, lose it. Because I know from personal experience that a lot of fun, smart, sexy, beautiful women are looking for This Guy.

 

[TooColdUlrick]

Originally posted by Bud Wiser
I've been on Match for quite awhile and have had very good success with a virtually out-of-control, outlandish, over-the-top funny profile narrative.

I agree -- your first draft of your profile screams AFC.

Thing is, your second shot isn't much better. About all that's worth a damn from it is this bit: "I love art, and occasionally doodle naked women on a napkin. Classical is better than Pop. Dogs are better than cats. Cats are better than mice."

I kinda sings and is a little funny.

At any rate, you gotta start over. I write ads for a living and one thing I've found with personals profiles is that THEY'RE NOT ADS! Personals profile narratives are a whole NUTHER THANG and writing in this genre starts with the basic Tao of Steve Mentality:

"Be without desire. Be excellent. Be gone."

It starts with the "being without desire" part -- you simply have to write your profile with a "give a f***" attitude.
Want to know which part of your whole profile really stands out? The only truly non-boring bit? This one from under "For fun":

"Chasing race cars, looking up funny names in the phone book, taping my snoring and playing it for my voicemail greeting"

If I only read that part, I'd be left with the impression of, "hey This Guy sounds like fun." Which is exactly what you want. Your assignment:

Be This Guy -- and only This Guy -- and write another narrative. If any part of it comes off like it's not This Guy, lose it. Because I know from personal experience that a lot of fun, smart, sexy, beautiful women are looking for This Guy.

i disagree completely. if you attempt to be, or portray something that you are not, you will be incogruent. probably the biggest pet peeve with personal ads, especially women's peeves, it that you are misleading or flat out lying.

write a personal that fits YOU and only YOU. al77 is not a gregarious, fun loving, exciting man, it seems. besides, all i did was take what he wrote and changed the wording, to demonstrate a point. al77 needs to write his own, with his own positive spin.

and it's an advertisement, flat out. if you want to put it in "narrative" form, it's still an advertisement. that's why they call them "Personal Ads" (e.g. advertisement).

 

[Bud Wiser]

Well, I'll tell you what, al77 has a gregarious and fun loving guy in him somewhere, because he wrote gregarious and fun loving stuff in his profile.

I hear it time and time again from the women I date from Match, there are scores of boring guys online. The best women don't want boring. Period.

As for congruence, al77 has to deliver that gregarious and fun loving guy when he finally meets the women. I pretty sure he can, but it will take time to bring out that side of him in the flesh. That's "inner game" stuff that he'll have to work on.

Okay, sure, go ahead and call it an "ad." I don't care. But to do so is a belittes what needs to be done here -- a transformation of his overall approach, or "game," if you will. It starts by writing it down and putting it out there. It gives you something to live up to, and by.

It then becomes something much more than a mere ad. It becomes a manifesto for change.

It worked for me. It can work for him.

That's all I have to say on this.

Go get 'em, al77!

 

[al77]

Originally posted by Bud Wiser
Well, I'll tell you what, al77 has a gregarious and fun loving guy in him somewhere, because he wrote gregarious and fun loving stuff in his profile.

As for congruence, al77 has to deliver that gregarious and fun loving guy when he finally meets the women. I pretty sure he can, but it will take time to bring out that side of him in the flesh. That's "inner game" stuff that he'll have to work on.

I tend to disagree. First of all thats right, I am not gregarious or outgoing or "fun" with a million of sports like hobbies.
So if I write a funny profile, that would make an impression that I am relly that funny, which is not true.
Sure that approach will get more responses, not not necessarily more date: I will not be able to keep it up even in emails.

By the way, I already had a simlat problem: some women expressed dissapointed that my pics are better than what they see in reality. Think about it: they got dissapointed cuz I had some good pics!
Same could happen to the profile: if it is too good, later it may become a dissapointment since I clearly cannot talk that funny all the time.

Anyway, how about some constructive ideas: can you share some good, i.e funny, not boring profile as an example of the implementation of your concept ""Be without desire. Be excellent. Be gone."? It would be intersting to see how you (or somebody else) implenet it in actual words.

 

[Marcopolo]

I decided I don't want the world to see my profile on Match, so I took it down. A coupelfo things-I do tend to write alot, but I actually wanted to write even more but only had so much space. Besides, Player supreme's post is about twice is long as mine is, and apparently he has success with it. So a long post isn't neccesairly bad.

 

[al77]

Originally posted by Marcopolo
I think I have a similar problem-I can be funny at times, and I can write well when I am in the mood
... You can check it out at Marcopolo9442 at match, and if there are any suggestions for improvement I am all ears.

1. There is only one decent pic on you there. Keep it. The rest are not worth to show.
2. Your profile is simply .. too long. You got lots of interests, but you wrote more than acceptable. Cut it down, leave 50% or less. And don't be afraid to be funny.
3. Dont go into details about your job - it is not really a turn on what you do. The turn on is what you earn and you stated it, which is fine.
Come back after you revamp the profile.. there is a lot more to change there.

 

[iveyleeger]

my turn

Okay, ladies, fire at will:

"Are you stylish, yet simple at heart? Oblivious to sophistry, yet enchanted by art?"

"Are you a maiden, more fair than many morn., in decadence a lady, in daylight quite the norm?"

Are you sick of crappy poetry?

Great! I'm interested in meeting a woman who knows who she is, where she is going, and why, yet retains a sense of wonder and excitement about the world that occasionaly leads her astray, (such as, for example, right now). I respect the gregarious and gallavanting types but get along best with the soft-spoken and somewhat less gallavanting folks like myself.

But all the world's a stage, so who really knows. Are you a player? Drop me a line.

~

Give me the good, the bad, and the ugly . . . and, if you know what you're doing (TooColdUlrick), a 2 min. rewrite.

 

[al77]

Re: my turn

Originally posted by iveyleeger
Okay, ladies, fire at will:

"Are you stylish, yet simple at heart? Oblivious to sophistry, yet enchanted by art?"

"Are you a maiden, more fair than many morn., in decadence a lady, in daylight quite the norm?"
Are you sick of crappy poetry?

Great! I'm interested in meeting a woman who knows who she is, where she is going, and why, yet retains a sense of wonder and excitement about the world that occasionaly leads her astray, (such as, for example, right now). I respect the gregarious and gallavanting types but get along best with the soft-spoken and somewhat less gallavanting folks like myself.

But all the world's a stage, so who really knows. Are you a player? Drop me a line.

~

I'll give you some bits, that aks "So what meaning you wanted to convey by it?":

1. "Are you a maiden,...Are you sick of crappy poetry?"
" - by itself it sounds a bit odd: you suggest a poetry line, than call it crappy, and ask if she is sick of it... hmmmmmm.

2. "where she is going" - not sure what you meant, but this phrase used by women mean "career". Do you want a women with career? At least women would read it that way.

3. "wonder and excitement about the world ..that leads her astray, (such as, for example, right now)."
Ok, world and excitement.. but why it is great when it leads you astray? And probably she would think more of "confused"...
The first is clear a positive image and then you just twist it into some odd "astray" thing and even emphasize it...What image exactly you wanted to convey by it?

4. "get along".. is it a similar in meaning to "easygoing" for you? I guess "easygoing" may show some mild AFC...

5. "so who really knows." - you directly convey sense of doubt... not a that kind of dout like "Oh.. I dont know if you lady would qualify to be my gf.. I dont know.. I'll watch ya".. but rather uncertainty in general, which might be perceived as a dent in your confidence.

6. "Are you a player"- Well... I dont think you gotta punch her that hard...women do not read the DJ bible, and "a player" is associated with "sex only" in their minds. I would not include that
thing.

Hope this helps to view at the profile from a different perspective.

 

[iveyleeger]

Thanks!

Thanks for the feedback. Any other comments?

 

[Mister Big]

Originally posted by Bud Wiser
I hear it time and time again from the women I date from Match, there are scores of boring guys online. The best women don't want boring. Period.

I second the motion on the boring men trend. Decent women from match that I've dated and scored with go on about how poor the rapport they have with the other duller men they meet face to face. They have their radar up to this issue big time, so you need to go outside of your normal comfort zone on your profile to create a fun and active persona. One that identifies with similar things they enjoy doing. I don't have trouble because I like going to the beach, dancing, travelling, etc.

Your profile and emails are marketing tools (not heavy mission statements). The target market (hot, interesting women) want fun and different men, so convey whatever about you projects this image. You will have trouble qualifying with them if you don't accept the terms of online dating.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Originally posted by Mister Big
I second the motion on the boring men trend. Decent women from match that I've dated and scored with go on about how poor the rapport they have with the other duller men they meet face to face. They have their radar up to this issue big time, so you need to go outside of your normal comfort zone on your profile to create a fun and active persona. One that identifies with similar things they enjoy doing. I don't have trouble because I like going to the beach, dancing, travelling, etc.

Your profile and emails are marketing tools (not heavy mission statements). The target market (hot, interesting women) want fun and different men, so convey whatever about you projects this image. You will have trouble qualifying with them if you don't accept the terms of online dating.

The one thing that I have to add is that the guy has to live up to how he markets himself. The worse thing that can happen is to get a woman's hopes up before meeting and then see all your hard work go down the crapper once you meet.

This is why guys need to be what the profess to be, live the life full time. You just can't pretend and feel it will be enough to keep a woman interested.