One thing I notice about PUA gurus

[ilikecharlene]

I often find PUA gurus are very condescending, in how they evaluate people and life in general.

I understand, like most people, that being a beta male is not good (duh). And for a number of valid reasons this is so (people are attracted to strong/confident people in general). But even if somebody is beta, so what? My honest view of sex/dating/relationships is that yes, people want sex and companionship, they'r natural, but often it's something society says we should chase after (especially our very sexualised culture). If needing/wanting sex is a true absolute, then explain asexuals, celibates, or monks? I don't believe there is a universal human nature, but that's a topic for another discussion.

Is it, to some extent, a high school mentality? Since because a PUA (or any dating coach) has a lot of dating experience, they presume themselves better for getting *****?

 

[Alle_Gory]

PUA gurus are full of ****, like everyone else. But they love it, they create more of it everyday, they breathe and live their own **** and sell it to you for a premium.

I don't believe they have anything of value. There's too many convincing fakes with half truths and information. If you have trouble with something, you need help evaluating and separating yourself from your situation. You're the best judge for what you live everyday, but you suck at judging effectively and admitting when you don't know things and when you need help. Get better at that and everything will be easy.

 

[Mike32ct]

Yes, PUAs and pickup gurus get soo hung up on that "higher value" bs that they often become extremely condescending.

The game teaches them to talk down to hot women as a power play (which can work), but they end up looking down on and talking down to everyone, especially other guys that don't pull much.

I don't refer to guys that don't score much as AFCs or chodes. They're just guys to me. Who cares what they do or don't do?

 

[Bossman90]

I often find PUA gurus are very condescending, in how they evaluate people and life in general.

I understand, like most people, that being a beta male is not good (duh). And for a number of valid reasons this is so (people are attracted to strong/confident people in general). But even if somebody is beta, so what? My honest view of sex/dating/relationships is that yes, people want sex and companionship, they'r natural, but often it's something society says we should chase after (especially our very sexualised culture). If needing/wanting sex is a true absolute, then explain asexuals, celibates, or monks? I don't believe there is a universal human nature, but that's a topic for another discussion.

Is it, to some extent, a high school mentality? Since because a PUA (or any dating coach) has a lot of dating experience, they presume themselves better for getting *****?

All of the coachs ive met are terrible. Also get the concept of Alpha and beta out of your head. The real world in regards to women does not function like that. If you looked at mystery you would see that he does not practice what he preachs.

 

[Naughty Ninja]

I'd love to go to a free PUA seminar just to get myself thrown out of it and get some good LULZ at some Alphalpha thinking he's "Alpha".

 

[zekko]

I don't refer to guys that don't score much as AFCs or chodes. They're just guys to me. Who cares what they do or don't do?

Yeah, that's always bugged me. The way PUAs talk about normal guys so condescendingly. Mathematically, most males will be beta. A lot of them are good guys, they're just people. Who cares how many girls they're banging? Meanwhile, many of the so-called "alphas" are worthless piles of garbage, anyway.

 

[oxford comma]

Yeah, that's always bugged me. The way PUAs talk about normal guys so condescendingly. Mathematically, most males will be beta. A lot of them are good guys, they're just people. Who cares how many girls they're banging? Meanwhile, many of the so-called "alphas" are worthless piles of garbage, anyway.

the reason they talk about normal guys so condescendingly is because its kind of annoying how "normal" guys dont feel the need to improve certain areas of their lives. They get good jobs, work out, get the right clothes then go to the bars every weekend hoping to score but never putting in the time to learn how to get good with women. they call guys that go on sites like this "creepy" and "weird" since they have to learn how to talk to girls. "Chodes" or "AFCs" are usually good guys, but their way of thinking is very immature because their egos are keeping them from living the lives they want. There's nothing wrong with not getting girls but wanting to get girls and not putting in the effort is very "chode" if you ask me, which is the way most guys are.

 

[zekko]

the reason they talk about normal guys so condescendingly is because its kind of annoying how "normal" guys dont feel the need to improve certain areas of their lives.

I think that's a pretty sweeping generalization. Most people try to improve their lives in some way or other, although they may not all be focused on getting girls. Most guys I know, heck most girls I know, have some sort of workout routine they're doing.

What about all the guys that are married? They're not out looking for girls. Many are family men, yet PUAs dismiss them as AFC. PUAs seem to think that if you're not part of the community, then you're some kind of inferior male. That's what gripes me.

 

[oxford comma]

I think that's a pretty sweeping generalization. Most people try to improve their lives in some way or other, although they may not all be focused on getting girls. Most guys I know, heck most girls I know, have some sort of workout routine they're doing.

What about all the guys that are married? They're not out looking for girls. Many are family men, yet PUAs dismiss them as AFC. PUAs seem to think that if you're not part of the community, then you're some kind of inferior male. That's what gripes me.

this has nothing to do with marriage or not being part of the community. its about those guys at parties and clubs TRYING to get laid but going about it completely wrong, like the typical guy does. PUA's dont condemn being married or not being a pick up artist, they condemn not taking control of your life and going after what you want in the correct way. maybe weve been watching different videos, but from what ive seen these guys genuinely want to help guys better their lives, which i respect a lot. I will admit terms like pUA, alpha, and afc are really stupid though, but it probably just makes things easier to give catchy words to things when you are instructing.

 

[zekko]

this has nothing to do with marriage or not being part of the community. its about those guys at parties and clubs TRYING to get laid but going about it completely wrong, like the typical guy does. PUA's dont condemn being married or not being a pick up artist, they condemn not taking control of your life and going after what you want in the correct way.

Well, there is a huge anti-marriage sentiment here. Read the Mature Man column. I can't even recommend marriage myself these days. But that's getting off topic, and it's been done to death anyway.

Admittedly, a lot of guys are clueless about dealing with women. Even after studying pickup, a lot of guys remian clueless, or at least awkward. PUAs revile these guys, even going so far as to blame them for women's sense of entitlement (which I think is ridiculous). It's one thing to say these guys don't know what to do, it's another to cast scorn and derision on them. Just becaues they aren't smooth doesn't mean they've commited some sort of crime.

 

[oxford comma]

Well, there is a huge anti-marriage sentiment here. Read the Mature Man column. I can't even recommend marriage myself these days. But that's getting off topic, and it's been done to death anyway.

Admittedly, a lot of guys are clueless about dealing with women. Even after studying pickup, a lot of guys remian clueless, or at least awkward. PUAs revile these guys, even going so far as to blame them for women's sense of entitlement (which I think is ridiculous). It's one thing to say these guys don't know what to do, it's another to cast scorn and derision on them. Just becaues they aren't smooth doesn't mean they've commited some sort of crime.

marriage is cool. the point to all this is to get to teh point where you can meet the right girl for you, not just marry a girl that is with you right now. the way i look at it is that pickup is just a necessary evil these days. ill admit i do look down on guys with no game, just because its so annoying to see. but at the same time i would be more than willing to help them out. its just annoying how we live in an age where girls have so much control over men and i hate how guys buy into it instead of questioning it.

 

[Mike32ct]

Cult leaders (eg pickup gurus) always teach their followers that everyone outside of the cult is evil lol.

Plus it's a marketing tactic to play into peoples' insecurities. If you don't come to my seminar, you are gonna end up like every other guy: an AFC.

Don't get me wrong, I'm very pro game. I just don't like to see guys get taken advantaged of financially by gurus. There are guys that can help you for free on here. Plus they have no financial incentive to lie to you and tell you that your looks don't matter.

 

[zekko]

Cult leaders (eg pickup gurus) always teach their followers that everyone outside of the cult is evil lol.

I'm not the only one who's noticed this hostility from PUAs toward average guys. Here's a quote from another current thread:

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=194902

"SCOTT: Do you like the phrase “average frustrated chump”? Personally, I think it’s bullying when PUAs use that phrase to describe socially awkward people who may have approach anxiety. To me, it comes across as a way for “master” PUAs to distance themselves from their former selves. What do you think?

CLARISSE: A lot of PUAs feel the need to look down on men who aren't in the community, or who don't get laid much. I'm sure it's partly to convince themselves that they've learned something of value from pickup artistry, but it's probably also a classic response to bullying: they've been bullied themselves, so they buy into the hierarchy that hurt them because they can't let go of their pain. They have to justify their own hurt feelings, and they have to believe that they were bullied for a reason."

I put the one part in bold because I think that's the biggest part of the explanation. Guys get into pickup, and they want to convince themselves (or else they actually believe) that this somehow makes them superior to other men.

I can see why they might think of these guys as chumps. But I don't see why there would be hostility for someone who is socially awkward. I was very shy growing up, and I had to fight to build my social skills. These things don't come easily to everybody - that's no reason to hate on them. We all have a different hand that we've been dealt to play.

 

[Nutz]

it's down right comical watching everyone crap all over pickup guys and whatnot when you're all ones yourselves, even if you don't consider yourselves as such. Pook was a pua guru, at least on paper. RT is one as well. I'm one in real live to a certain degree, although I'd rather think of myself as a mentor, and maybe a dating coach. Mainly a mentor though. The point of my post though is that DJ = PUA, and you all hating on PUAs is grand irony. Differentiating yourselves by claiming the distinction of DJ is semantics at best.

 

[FairShake]

"Pick up" attracts people who are lacking in a very big way. Socially. Once they get a little polish on them and a little power over someone it's practically the same as the small-town butthead who becomes the small-town cop and now abuses the hell out of his authority. You have social rejects ripping on other social rejects. Not a pretty picture.

This applies to me too.

 

[SgtSplacker]

I dunno to me it's kind of like a race car driver or MMA fighters attitude. You HAVE to be confident to succeed and with that comes a bit of arrogance. You can't help it. Look at Anderson Silva, the guys amazing and he knows it. Good for him. Lots hate him though, not me. If I could tear apart world class fighters like him and make it look easy, I would be ****y too. It's everyone else I have a problem with lol, they are the ones that suck and still calling themselves fighters.

 

[Nutz]

A lot of the PUA gurus are in fact narcissists...

It stands to reason that the best in the community would espouse Dark Triad personality traits since that's what women are naturally attracted to.

 

[yuppaz]

Mike 32 and remote nailed it. These guys mask their insecurities by thinking themselves better then someone not into pick up. They create their identities around the idea they are better with women and have to keep proving that to themselves & for marketing purposes it's to instill insecurities in you (oh ****, I don't want to be a chump or chode or whatever) so you buy their product and do what they tell you. It's one of the laws of power in that Robert Green book that to start a cult you need to have an enemy. If you don't have one....well make one up....

Truth is you do need to have some seduction skills amd practice to get good with women, the lie is that you need to be xyz and behave as abc in order to get there. You hardly ever see guys charging for bootcamps telling you your fine how you are but just need a little practice opening up, connecting emotionally and leading interactions with women. The guys that i've tried to help w/ women that have had the hardest time are the ones that insist the gurus are right and try to be completely different people when they FINALLY approach. Then they don't even get better because they suck at acting like someone else and women sense how much of an act they are putting on and it's royally incongruent. Guys I know that do well with acting like some pickup guy are guys that are full narcissist where the lies don't bother them at all as long as they are getting ass sooner or later. It's easy for them because they have no conscience....

 

[oxford comma]

the way i look at it is that gurus and legends are usually crazy in any field. i play guitar, but it doesnt mean i have to wear a bandana, do lots of drugs and set my guitar on fire on stage. just learn from them but adapt it to your own personality/life style.

 

[Tryingtoimprove]

The way I see it we're just trying to learn the powers of attraction like it seems most women(or at least the ones we're attracted to) figured out when they were teens probably. And just like any women who would teach seminars and pride herself as being first and foremost a "seductress" would probably be a b1tch and a skank, the same holds true for men.

That's my take anyways.