Oil prices likely to double, says study

[SmoothTalker]

Latinoman, I don't see your point. Yes we have a smaller population. However nobody pays for the whole country, just for our own energy use, and on a per person basis Canadians use more energy than Americans (and almost everyone else in the world). http://globalis.gvu.unu.edu/indicator.cfm?IndicatorID=146&country=CA#rowCA

This is due not only to the increased heating requirements but we import a lot of food and other things from the US, which requires fuel to bring up here.

I realize we're a net exporter and still import quite a bit, but we still don't have the market power to get the really good prices ( not to mention the gas taxes..).

As for our health care system, well I really don't know what's going on down there. I know you guys have the best technology and really good doctors, but some of the medical bills I hear about are just insane. But if you want to say our cheaper health care makes it easier for us to afford gas, I'll say our taxes (probably double yours when all is said and done) undo that advantage and then some.



LostandConfused, there are adoptations. More fuel efficient cars for one. Using the car you have better is another (ie don't make seperate trips for everything, do your shopping for the week in one run, etc). Longer term, society will adapt by building smarter cities and more public transit. I will say again, where I live doesn't have good public transport, we only have busses and I"m sure Atlanta does too. Lots of people I know live half an hour walk from a bus stop. You find solutions if you have to.


Oh and djtdot, yeah Toronto has a decent public transit system. I don't live in Toronto though, and outside the big cities it's a whole different story.

Kind of dumb really, my town use to have a really good street car system. They got rid of it because nobody wanted public transportation.

 

[SmoothTalker]

Oh and we all did screw ourselves over. We really should have insisted on public transportation and rail systems throughout. But the appeal of the car was just too great I guess.

 

[guayaballer]

is there any way that gas prices will ever go down?

 

[Ingeniarius]

Here is the difference...you have a VERY small country in comparison to ours. Our nation relies heavily of moving goods via rail and trucks from coast to coast. So...the high prices ALSO go into food and other needs.

Another difference is that your economy is already designed to factor the prize of petroleum. Ours is not. Our domestic airlines NEVER designed their planes to sustain high prices of jet fuel. Furthermore, our health system is considerably more expensive than yours.

Well, my car does exactly 42.8 mpg, so thinking that 25 or even 35 mpg is economical is simply stupid and ignorant. My neighbors think that buying such a car is denoting of my status because I am not keeping up with the Jones'es.
It is a Toyota Corolla, Diesel engine with turbo injection.

Also in America people do not use other means of transport enough because it is simply not part of the culture. In Europe, many people use bicycles to get from a to b, often riding 6 miles or more to get groceries. A 8 km trip to school on bike is deemed normal in some parts of Europe.

Thinking that America is the only country dependant on moving goods around is simply ignorant, Latinoman. As of 2007, Germany was the world greatest exporter of goods (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_exports) and as you may know, Germany is in Europe and exports high-tech machinery and chemicals. These are physical products that unlike services have to be physically moved by truck, rail or plane to all of Europe and the rest of the world.

America has the most expensive health care system in the world because of a factor commonly known as greed. It is well known in some parts of Europe that MDs make 3-4 time the money in the US or the UK than they do (as in Germany again for example). This may sound stupid, but really it is the difference between 50,000 EUR and 150,000 - 200,000 EUR (about $80,000 and $240,00 $320,000 at the current exchange rate). Unfortunately I cannot cite specific examples concering pharmaceuticals, but companies justifying their high prices by research and development costs are simply lying. During the 1980s to 1990s, Germany and France had some of the world's most innovative pharma companies offering their products at reasonable prices.

I know this because the field I work in (machinery) competes fiercely with European (mainly German) companies and have felt the severity of the competition.

 

[synergy1]

What will happen when people with commutes are unable to afford their commutes? Right now I drive 35 miles each way, and will be dangerously close to "breaking even" with gas prices. My car is 26 mpg, not great, but not horrible. I have two options : move closer to work, or find another job with a shorter commute. I will wager a guess that most folks will do the later as well.

Something will give eventually. Necessity is a catalyst for change. Public transportation might actually be taken seriously in this country. Maybe companies won't HQ out of the middle of no where in cheap areas if they lose a lot of their high end talent.

 

[comic_relief]

What will happen when people with commutes are unable to afford their commutes? Right now I drive 35 miles each way, and will be dangerously close to "breaking even" with gas prices. My car is 26 mpg, not great, but not horrible. I have two options : move closer to work, or find another job with a shorter commute. I will wager a guess that most folks will do the later as well.

Something will give eventually. Necessity is a catalyst for change. Public transportation might actually be taken seriously in this country. Maybe companies won't HQ out of the middle of no where in cheap areas if they lose a lot of their high end talent.

i have a feeling that many people will start having digital offices to work there office jobs or will move much closer.

I think we may start seeing that many of the rich suburbanites move back into the cities while the poor people move back into the outlying area.

Also, I forsee the train systems in America being rebuilt for passenger rails. I'm thinking about eventually reinvesting in rail power again once the investors start investing after the recession is somewhat done.

comic_relief

 

[ketostix]

I'll tell you what I think. There's no real reason for oil and gas prices to be this high other than price gouging and profitering. Oil is essentially a utility in America and the market can't really set its price properly. They can charge basically whatever price they want and you'll have no choice but to pay it. After Bush got in there gas prices have tripled. The middle east is getting rich and som are is the petroleum industry. Iraq is bringing in lots of oil money but we're paying to run their country. What BS. And Fox news is the propagandist that tells the public "Be ready for $4 and $5 gasoline hehe". The oil companies conspired to speculate the price up and the government gave them the greenlight to do it. The oil industry needs to be regulated. In one South American country gas is 12 cents a gallon, it's 45 cents a gallon in Suadi Arabia, but it's highway robbery in Western countries.

 

[Levex]

Oil is only going to go up, and up, and more up.

I think people here in the states are finally realizing that 4-6 dollars a gallon gas is a definite possibility. I'm starting to see a lot more hybrids and compact cars, even seen about 5 "smart" cars in my town. For a smaller-sized southern city thats not bad at all.
I used to have a chevy blazer which for its size guzzled gas like crazy, and i'm so glad i was able to sell it before prices really started going through the roof. Now i drive a compact-sized V6 sedan,i never get 30-40 mpg driving that,performance has it's price, but its definately not as bad as that pos SUV.

I see these news shows sometimes and they show some guy complaining about gas prices while gassing up his 4x4 2500 HD with a 12 inch lift and mud tires...am i supposed to be sympathetic?

 

[ketostix]

Oil is only going to go up, and up, and more up.

I think people here in the states are finally realizing that 4-6 dollars a gallon gas is a definite possibility. I'm starting to see a lot more hybrids and compact cars, even seen about 5 "smart" cars in my town. For a smaller-sized southern city thats not bad at all.
I used to have a chevy blazer which for its size guzzled gas like crazy, and i'm so glad i was able to sell it before prices really started going through the roof. Now i drive a compact-sized V6 sedan,i never get 30-40 mpg driving that,performance has it's price, but its definately not as bad as that pos SUV.

I see these news shows sometimes and they show some guy complaining about gas prices while gassing up his 4x4 2500 HD with a 12 inch lift and mud tires...am i supposed to be sympathetic?

But the way I see it gas shouldn't be 3,4 or 6 dollars per gallon in the first place regardless of what your driving. If people all started driving smaller cars or they found a new oil field it wouldn't make any difference in the price because they're charging as much as they can get by with regardless of supply and demand. Diesel is $4-$5 gallon already and it's not like you can buy a smaller Tractor/Trailer. When a peson buys a larger vehicle they're accepeting the higher cost from fuel consumption, but they didn't bargain for the price of gas per gallon going up constantly for no real good reason.

 

[Latinoman]

Well, my car does exactly 42.8 mpg, so thinking that 25 or even 35 mpg is economical is simply stupid and ignorant. My neighbors think that buying such a car is denoting of my status because I am not keeping up with the Jones'es.
It is a Toyota Corolla, Diesel engine with turbo injection.

Also in America people do not use other means of transport enough because it is simply not part of the culture. In Europe, many people use bicycles to get from a to b, often riding 6 miles or more to get groceries. A 8 km trip to school on bike is deemed normal in some parts of Europe.

Thinking that America is the only country dependant on moving goods around is simply ignorant, Latinoman. As of 2007, Germany was the world greatest exporter of goods (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_exports) and as you may know, Germany is in Europe and exports high-tech machinery and chemicals. These are physical products that unlike services have to be physically moved by truck, rail or plane to all of Europe and the rest of the world.

America has the most expensive health care system in the world because of a factor commonly known as greed. It is well known in some parts of Europe that MDs make 3-4 time the money in the US or the UK than they do (as in Germany again for example). This may sound stupid, but really it is the difference between 50,000 EUR and 150,000 - 200,000 EUR (about $80,000 and $240,00 $320,000 at the current exchange rate). Unfortunately I cannot cite specific examples concering pharmaceuticals, but companies justifying their high prices by research and development costs are simply lying. During the 1980s to 1990s, Germany and France had some of the world's most innovative pharma companies offering their products at reasonable prices.

I know this because the field I work in (machinery) competes fiercely with European (mainly German) companies and have felt the severity of the competition.

Stick to your field of work (machineries)...and I will stick to mine.

 

[Latinoman]

Latinoman, I don't see your point. Yes we have a smaller population. However nobody pays for the whole country, just for our own energy use, and on a per person basis Canadians use more energy than Americans (and almost everyone else in the world).

Canada is our biggest exporter of petroleum (meaning crude oil and refined petroleum products combined) and natural gas.

America is the biggest consumer of energy in the World (followed by China and Japan). If Canada is the biggest exporter of petroleum and natural gas to the U.S., which happens to be the biggest consumer of the World...what does that tell you about Canada net consumption?

It tells you that you produce a LOT more oil and natural gas that you can possibly consume.

Don't waste your time over analyzing this. I am telling you straight up how it is. You guys are our BEST friend when it comes to energy imports, in particular natural gas and petroleum. No one comes close.

 

[Latinoman]

In 1998, I was paying $.74 per gallon (a gallon is about 3.778 litters).

When prices went up in 2001, I told a friend of mine that once gasoline prices reached over $2.00, they will NEVER go below $1.00 again. In my OPINION, if gasoline reaches $4.00, they will never reach under $2.00 again.

I have some strong opinions about this situation, but because they are personal opinions, I would not share them because it would be very irresponsible of my part.

 

[Evzone]

I am hedged against this by buying shares of Chesapeake Energy (and if you're smart, you should be running some diversified investments with positions in oil and natural gas exploration as well), so it's all good.

Conditions that could mitigate an increase in oil prices are a re-appreciation of the US dollar (about fair valued right now, but the Euro is overvalued in my opinion...look at Euro zone economic performance and it is about in line with US performance, so there is no real reason why it is $1.60 for 1 Euro), and increased production and consumption of natural gas. Natural gas can be produced domestically in the US, and it can be compressed and liquefied to be used as a diesel substitute, often without requiring any modification to the engine. Nobody cares about ethanol except for Al Gore, even though ethanol is expensive, not energy efficient at all, and it actually pollutes quite a bit.

I take Malthusian sky-is-falling predictions with a grain of salt...we were "supposed" to run out of oil 10 year ago. All those smart intellectual types were saying that we were supposed to be dying of starvation because of too much population 20 years ago.

 

[Evzone]

The oil industry needs to be regulated. In one South American country gas is 12 cents a gallon, it's 45 cents a gallon in Suadi Arabia, but it's highway robbery in Western countries.

I must disagree. Price ceilings or subsidies intended to create price ceilings always create inefficiencies elsewhere. Cheap gas in certain countries, like the ones you mentioned (I am assuming you were talking about Venezuela when you were talking about South America) is because their governments spend a ****load of money to subsidize gasoline.

See, oddly enough, Saudi Arabia is an importer of gasoline. They are the largest exporter of crude oil, but they don't really have the refinery capacity to turn it into usable gasoline. And, as the economies of the Middle East have started to develop in recent years with a rising middle class and increased discretionary income, gasoline consumption in all those countries are up. The result is that their governments are now hemorrhaging cash.

I could think of much better things to do with that kind of money in the US, like education, retiring the national debt, health care, ect.

 

[Latinoman]

I could think of much better things to do with that kind of money in the US, like education, retiring the national debt, health care, ect.

What money? That's not the government money. That's the oil companies money. We don't have a state-owned company.

 

[Joe The Homophobe]

When prices went up in 2001, I told a friend of mine that once gasoline prices reached over $2.00, they will NEVER go below $1.00 again. In my OPINION, if gasoline reaches $4.00, they will never reach under $2.00 again.

a more accurate statement would be gas not going under $3.00 again considering experts are saying it will go past $5 sooner rather than later.

Gas not going under $2.00 ever again is just common sense but I just don't see how it could go under $3.00 if we consider it is going to reach to $5 and beyond.

 

[Latinoman]

a more accurate statement would be gas not going under $3.00 again considering experts are saying it will go past $5 sooner rather than later.

Gas not going under $2.00 ever again is just common sense but I just don't see how it could go under $3.00 if we consider it is going to reach to $5 and beyond.

Gasoline cost around $1.80 less than 12 months ago.

 

[Evzone]

What money? That's not the government money. That's the oil companies money. We don't have a state-owned company.

I'm not quite following you. Are you suggesting that there should be some sort of transfer payment from oil companies (and however you want to define those as, whether they be exploration companies, refineries, or whatever) to subsidize the price of gasoline?

The size of that kind of transfer payment would be huge, and the tax needed to support it would basically remove any incentive for oil companies to be in business, so in the end the only oil company remaining would be government-owned. Now being in the public sector isn't really a good thing...while theoretically it means that the company is owned by "the people", in practice, usually what happens is that it serves the interests of a few bureaucrats and career politicians who are sheltered from the competitive forces of the free market. Look at Pemex in Mexico or Amtrak in the United States--hardly examples of well run businesses.

It also doesn't deal with the two underlying causes of increased oil prices: 1) Increased worldwide demand with China and India becoming world powers, and Brazil, several Middle Eastern countries, and a few South American countries (Colombia especially) becoming emerging markets, and 2) a drop in the value of the US Dollar. Increased worldwide demand is out of our control, although we could develop other energy sources like nuclear power or natural gas. I must say though that, while I admit that my politics are rightward of center, I am disappointed about how this administration has let the value of the dollar drop. Yes, in the short term it helps exports, but in the long term it makes the US a less attractive place to invest, and in the long run that is more important.

 

[reset]

We have oil in the US, we're just not allowed to do anything with it.

 

[bbestar]

We have oil in the US, we're just not allowed to do anything with it.

God Bless The USA
God Bless The U.S. Government
God Bless President Bush
God Bless Dic Cheney
God Bless The Senate
God Bless the Congress
God Bless All the Presidents since World War II
God Bless All the Oil companies
God Bless All Military Business Contractors
and on a special note
God Bless Bilderberg group and the Council on Foreign Relations and David Rockefeller Jr.