Obamacare Lives!

[Bible_Belt]

I don't get the.. the bad part lol. the complaints aren't even realistic.

It's about money and who pays for it all. Right now, near me anyway, patients are split evenly into thirds: private insurance, gov't, and nothing. The people with nothing will still get care if they at least promise to pay and do not already have bad debt with that hospital or clinic. Even if they have bad debt with that particular clinic, under the current law they still get care if they have a condition that is considered life-threatening.

Although the Supremes validated Obamacare, they threw out the part that lets the Feds force the states to expand Medicaid coverage. States are going to be allowed to opt out of Obamacare on a state-by-state basis. Since they are mostly on the brink of insolvency right now, the temptation to opt out will be strong.

The only thing keeping docs afloat right now is private insurance, because the state hasn't sent a check in almost four years. The state of Illinois is racking up million dollar bills with doctors right now and then offering to settle them later for 5%. And the million dollar figure was already highly discounted in the first place, by about 2/3. Now Obamacare is going to force the doctors to treat twice as many people in exchange for a promise to someday sent a check.

Imagine if I owed you a few million bucks, was four years behind paying you, and kept sending you insultingly low settlement offers. Now imagine if the government passed a law that made you do twice as much business with me. That's why doctors hate Obamacare. The only thing they can do to survive is to stretch themselves, their staffs, and their resources even thinner. That drives down the quality of care that they can give, and that will drive any good doctor nuts. Yes it is about money, but money affects quality.

 

[Alle_Gory]

The USA has 300,000,000 MORE people than Sweden. Can't compare the two

And way more money, and way more hospitals, and way more people in need of healthcare who pay up the ass in taxes but see that money squandered on bailouts for the government's buddies and spent making expensive holes in the desert with fancy weapons.

 

[iqqi]

I just had a relative die pretty prematurely at the age of 50. Denied health insurance for "previous conditions", which was a previous heart attack. That resulted in loads of debt from hospital bills which was a huge stress for the entire family. They lost their house. Recently, this relative felt the signs of another heart attack, something that was familiar to her. Instead of having someone call an ambulance, she made one phone call to make sure her grandson would be ok after school, and then she basically just took the heart attack. She chose to die alone in an empty office, because she didn't want her family to have to deal with even more debt from another heart attack. Not to mention there was a certain limit to what the hospital would do for her (regarding medicine) without insurance.

This was the matriarch of a huge family, and she was not old. You have no idea the amount of pain the family is in. It's totally fXcked up that she felt that was the only responsible thing to do.

There are people who are really in the sh!ts right now, without basic and necessary healthcare or insurance. I know a 29 year old with something like partial dentures because he could not afford a root canal. That's so fxcked up! Anything that can help people like these people get some kind of health care, I am completely in favor of.

 

[betheman]

I just had a relative die pretty prematurely at the age of 50. Denied health insurance for "previous conditions", which was a previous heart attack. That resulted in loads of debt from hospital bills which was a huge stress for the entire family. They lost their house. Recently, this relative felt the signs of another heart attack, something that was familiar to her. Instead of having someone call an ambulance, she made one phone call to make sure her grandson would be ok after school, and then she basically just took the heart attack. She chose to die alone in an empty office, because she didn't want her family to have to deal with even more debt from another heart attack. Not to mention there was a certain limit to what the hospital would do for her (regarding medicine) without insurance.

This was the matriarch of a huge family, and she was not old. You have no idea the amount of pain the family is in. It's totally fXcked up that she felt that was the only responsible thing to do.

There are people who are really in the sh!ts right now, without basic and necessary healthcare or insurance. I know a 29 year old with something like partial dentures because he could not afford a root canal. That's so fxcked up! Anything that can help people like these people get some kind of health care, I am completely in favor of.

scary scenario, poor woman, what a choice to make.I can imagine similar scenarios being played out more and more, this obamacare appears to me to be but a mere band aid to a chronic problem

 

[Marvin Gaye]

Don't forget Sweden's massive contribution to health technology over the last 30 years......

Oh wait, they had none.

Maybe that profit motive isn't so bad after all....

Go back a little farther and Sweden played a big role in Eugenics. Lol anyways


Looks like America is finally catching up with the rest of the world.

 

[5string]

Alot of you guys just don't get it. The Affordable Health Care Act amounts to nothing more than socialism which is where this country is headed. Do you really want the federal government to intrude into your individual lives and those of the states? Better back up, think, study this issue and reevaluate.

An entitlement society is not the answer. Witness yet again the fall of Rome.

 

[Marvin Gaye]

Or going down the drain with the rest of the world. Now of course sweden is a feminist paradise with virtually no property rights and the innovation level to prove it. Your suggestion that if one is not pro-socialist then one must be a nazi is filled with logical fallacy. More to the point, if one is not a socialist cesspool, that does not mean you are then a nazi society. Nice try though.

I guess I should have wrote a longer post, I wasn't attacking Sweden. Nazi eugenic practice was different than Sweden's, I didn't compare the two.

You go pretty far to assume I'm calling anyone a Nazi.... especially those who aren't socialist. What I'm saying is that America's implementing policies the rest of world's already had for a long time.

You could be right though Danger. Maybe we're circling the drain with everyone else. From what some Canadians say (Aussies too) the healthcare system is alright

The Affordable Health Care Act amounts to nothing more than socialism which is where this country is headed. Do you really want the federal government to intrude into your individual lives and those of the states? Better back up, think, study this issue and reevaluate.

An entitlement society is not the answer. Witness yet again the fall of Rome.

True dat !!!!

I felt like saying true dat instead of, "this"

 

[speed dawg]

my wife has a friend who had to get an abortion about a year and a half ago beucase she did not have insurance and did not want to pay the medical bills that go along with a delivery and aftercare.

when kids are being aborted beucase of **** like that your system is broke.

WTF???

Number 1 - If you can't afford the kid, don't get pregnant.

Number 2 - If you resort to an abortion (KILLING YOUR FVCKING CHILD) because you can't pay the bills, then you are a grade A sh*tball.

Number 3 - If you use this example as reasoning for your support of Obamacare, then you are a grade A sh*tball.

 

[speed dawg]

Alot of you guys just don't get it. The Affordable Health Care Act amounts to nothing more than socialism which is where this country is headed. Do you really want the federal government to intrude into your individual lives and those of the states? Better back up, think, study this issue and reevaluate.

An entitlement society is not the answer. Witness yet again the fall of Rome.

This. Barack Obama is a pile of sh*t that I'm ashamed to call my President.

 

[comic_relief]

HI IQQI!!! i didn't know you were still on the boards! Anyways (before this thread is closed)...

With the ACA, I wish that Obama could have went all the way with his public option instead of this half @$$3D solution. Now I am taking a wait and see attitude on the entire thing. It is constitutional. SC said it was. I am with Backbreaker.

If it doesn't work, lets go try something else. I would LOVE to see the rival plans put forth by "other" people that I have yet to see. I have only heard murmurs about repeal and replace. Please tell me what you would like to replace it with.

Oh and yes, about Native Americans. Native Americans were far behind weapon wise because they fell behind because technological drift. There are documented cases of Whites being kidnapped by Native Americans and being forced to go live with Natives. Upon being returned to whites, the kidnapped whites were sent back in tears not wanting to go back meanwhile captive indians wanted to go back as quickly as possible (source: lies my teacher told me).

Native Americans were destroyed because of disease, not to keep beating a dead horse. At what point was China capitalistic in the past? I am curious.

- comic_relief

 

[don't]

the Chinese invented gunpowder, but NOT the use of projectile firearms. Cannon were first seen in the middle ages, in Europe. Small arms of any sort were not seen until about 1500 AD, again, in Europe. practical firearms, if you an call a wheelock or Flintlock practical, didn't show up until about the late 1600's, and were rare until the 1700's.

 

[Alle_Gory]

Alot of you guys just don't get it. The Affordable Health Care Act amounts to nothing more than socialism which is where this country is headed. Do you really want the federal government to intrude into your individual lives and those of the states? Better back up, think, study this issue and reevaluate.

They already do intrude. Massively. At least with health care you're forcing the ****ers to give you something back for all those taxes you pay them.

An entitlement society is not the answer. Witness yet again the fall of Rome.

America is far from the glory that was Rome.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

Seems to be a lot of strong opinions on this issue. If anybody cares to take some time (like hours or days) and learn precisely why, from an economic standpoint, Obamacare will make matters worse, here's a reading list:

http://www.mises.org/daily/3737/Why-ObamaCare-Will-Fail-A-Reading-List

Be warned, this articles aren't exciting, they take some time and effort to get through, and they certainly won't validate any preconceived, emotionally based ideas.

Sure, everybody would like access to high quality, affordable health care, but that doesn't make it a human right.

The laws of economics affect supply,demand and prices whether we like it or not. You can't create more of something with a simple government decree.

Nor can you make something affordable to everybody through a simple government decree.

Take some time to think about this from an economic standpoint. Government intervention only makes matters worse.

 

[Love Me Do]

Seems to be a lot of strong opinions on this issue. If anybody cares to take some time (like hours or days) and learn precisely why, from an economic standpoint, Obamacare will make matters worse, here's a reading list:

http://www.mises.org/daily/3737/Why-ObamaCare-Will-Fail-A-Reading-List

Be warned, this articles aren't exciting, they take some time and effort to get through, and they certainly won't validate any preconceived, emotionally based ideas.

Sure, everybody would like access to high quality, affordable health care, but that doesn't make it a human right.

The laws of economics affect supply,demand and prices whether we like it or not. You can't create more of something with a simple government decree.

Nor can you make something affordable to everybody through a simple government decree.

Take some time to think about this from an economic standpoint. Government intervention only makes matters worse.

When someone out of America says this you know its true

Dead esrous

thank you for this post

 

[backseatjuan]

You should know, only cheese inside mouse trap is free. :crackup:

 

[Bible_Belt]

So is public education socialist to?

fwiw, the supreme court has ruled that there is no Constitutional right to an education, even for children.

 

[Quiksilver]

Worse news of all for taxpayers.

And according to the CBO, all previous estimates on the cost were consdirably lowballed.

Honestly, the combination of this, the impending social security funding issues and the money printing of the last decade will generate some serious inflationary problems in the coming future.

Since only 48% of Americans are actually private sector taxpayers, it appears the majority got what they wanted.

 

[Quiksilver]

Last I checked a large percentage of their population werent without decent healthcare or education. So I think they are doing just fine. And they didnt have a large homeless population either. Collectivist societies will always fair better than individualist societies, and our version of capitalism is way too individualistic and selfish and is a detriment to the country's citizens as a whole.

Its really no surprise that America has gotten to where it is...especially when you look at the ridiculous rich vs poor gap. Theres no reason that the supposed best place to live in the world has such large poverty, lack of healthcare, and kids not being able to afford college. If we are such a land of opportunity, why are so many people without opportunities. Are rich-poor gap is insane for a developed nation.

The system needs to change, and its all starting with Obamas policies. Do people really need to care about profit and be so rich that they step on everyone else and twist the system for their rich benefit? Come on now...this capitalist healthcare system has not truly benefited everyone as a whole...especially the lower middle class and the poor. People are being forced to go abroad to get procedures done...yet Im supposed to believe those against Obama's plan truly have anyone but themselves in mind? The healthcare big wigs only care about lining their pockets...health care shouldnt be about that.
That sounds horrible dude. But kids are freaking expensive, especially if you dont have necessary health insurance in their early years.

lol

I don't even ...

 

[Quiksilver]

And regarding Obamacare ...

I know a fair bit about it, but my only real contention is...



No one should have a Right to the services/labor/money of another.

To me, thats just a form of enslavement and a technical reversion back to the not-so-pleasant times we began to emerge from 400 years ago.

I think a Right is something that cannot be taken away from you, not an obligation of another toward you.

--

And regarding all the people who don't have insurance ... I'll bet a lot of them have nice toys (iphone, flat screen tele, etc).

Part of freedom is the freedom to make a bad choice, and accept the consequences.

 

[Who Dares Win]

The point is not providing health care to everybody, the point is forcing people to pay their money for something they do no require, its the same principle of organized crime forcing shop owners to pay for "protection".

Nobody here would be happy to know some people liying sick on the streets but at the same time nobody who doesnt feel "entitled" or "weak" appreciate a mafia style government telling people to share what they gained with everybody else.

Despite I dislike turbo competitive societies which decrease the quality of living of people, I realize the more you turn close to socialism and the more your society is messed up generally, the first one forces you to take part in a rat race where a hierarchy is established, the second one forces you to live in a economical and mental slavery where only a few stay at the top with less less levels in between.

No doubt about it, if you wanna enslave a population, socialism is the best way, no surprise all dictatorships were/are based on it.