O Brave New World

[wait_out]

I had an interesting thought the other day provoked by the endless drama about societal changes in the MM forum. First, you need a little background on BRAVE NEW WORLD, a science fiction classic written by Aldous Huxley in 1932.

...all citizens are conditioned from birth to value consumption with such platitudes as "spending is better than mending," i.e., buy a new one instead of fixing the old one, because constant consumption, and near-universal employment to meet society's material demands, is the bedrock of economic and social stability for the World State.

Recreational sex is an integral part of society. According to The World State, sex is a social activity, rather than a means of reproduction (sex is encouraged from early childhood). The few women who can reproduce are conditioned to use birth control (a "Malthusian belt", resembling a cartridge belt holding "the regulation supply of contraceptives", is a popular fashion accessory). The maxim "everyone belongs to everyone else" is repeated often, and the idea of a "family" is considered pornographic; sexual competition and emotional, romantic relationships are rendered obsolete because they are no longer needed. Marriage, natural birth, parenthood, and pregnancy are considered too obscene to be mentioned in casual conversation. Thus, society has developed a new idea of reproductive comprehension.

Spending time alone is considered an outrageous waste of time and money. Wanting to be an individual is horrifying. This is why John, a character in the book, is later afforded celebrity-like status. Conditioning trains people to consume and never to enjoy being alone, so by spending an afternoon not playing "Obstacle Golf," or not in bed with a friend, one is forfeiting acceptance.

In its first chapters, the novel describes life in The World State as wonderful and introduces Lenina and Bernard. Lenina is a socially accepted woman, normal for her society, while Bernard, a psychologist, is an outcast. Although an Alpha Plus, Bernard is shorter in stature than the average of his caste—a quality shared by the lower castes, which gives him an inferiority complex...

I'm not proposing to draw parallels between Huxley's vison and now, it has been done many times. However, the world state was created for a reason -- because it worked better than whatever dysfunctionality it replaced. From a random google search:

In the beginning of the novel Huxley described how people eventually chose to build the new world: years of global warfare, instability of hypocritical social order, constant dismay of the people from unfulfilled desire… What a great resemblance to the current old world! Except for another global warfare, we pretty much fulfill every other criterion for initiating the Brave New World as described in the book. Modern civilization in the over half a century has been nibbled by the leftism’s dominion and crumbling in front of the ill polity and dysfunctional social dynamic (from Norway shooting spree to London raiding and looting, with more disheartening news to come), not to mention that the global economic system at the verge of debacle… I see too many unfulfillable souls everywhere, too many sadism and masochism, and too many vulnerable lies and despicable excuses...

Nobody is going to turn back the clock on modernity (peacefully), and our current batch of humanity which has replaced solitude with smartphones is not going away. So if you gripe about the breakdown of marriage, sexual promiscuity, and "Alpha caste" sperm banks -- if you complain about not being able to move up on the social hierarchy (as society failed to match your desires to your caste), and things seem bad now -- have you considered we are in a middle period, not in decline but transition, on our way to a better world? A world where the state is your de facto family, sex is as meaningful as soccer (and thus you're never deprived), and you are never underemployed and vulnerable? Does that sound horrifying -- or does it sound like a pretty good deal?

If you're aware of occasional honor killings which occur in the west, it's because of families which are anachronisms that failed to adapt to our world. If you're having trouble adapting too -- have you ever considered that your values have been obsoleted?

BRAVE NEW WORLD is a plausible scenario, but there is no way humanity did not go through growing pains as their entire world changed. We'll see in about 500 years -- how to place what's happening in our own world and small lives, in the true final perspective, of what it actually meant.

 

[ArcBound]

Interesting book from what you posted, but what determines whether something is now an anachronism?

Honor killings used to be quite common in many places like Germany a long time ago but now because the majority opposes it, it is considered an anachronism.

So since we are in a society where masculinity is basically ridiculed, a lot of men are shamed for natural urges and instincts, and nice guys are encouraged, and most of this is accepted by an increasing majority of people male and female, is the man as we knew it from several decades ago an anachronism?

Is there a point in time where humans a whole will look back and laugh at our ancestors, men who used to beat women to put them in their place, who did what they wanted to at times instead of bending to the every whim of women, men who did whatever the fvck they wanted, men who loved a women and showed it through actions and not by buying a million flowers and saying ilu <333 after every text?

Just an interesting thought..

I'll tell you what's an anachronism though, a woman that knows how to cook an awesome meal like our mothers only can :rockon:

 

[DanelMadr]

It is basically fascism 101....from what I read.

It won't work, basically bc universe does not operate that way. It is artificial bubble. It sounds promising especially to AFCs ,heh. But it is doomed to fail horribly.

I say, people in free society eventually evolve naturally in responsible individuals, where envy, lust/ONS, pride/bed notches, gluttony/consumerism, greed/materialism, sloth/junkies will be almost non existent thanks to people getting rid of their pompous egos made by fear and self-loathing.

The society will be made of strong individuals, still forming families. Religion,race, gender or wealth won't be the source of divisions.

I don't say that some 'saviors' won't derail it with artificial community paradise ideas like they always try. So maybe BNW will happen as learning experience but thank you No. I'll be the guy in leather jacket organizing revolution.

 

[wait_out]

Brilliant book. Prophetic. Have you read Brave New World Revisited?

thank you SL I will add it to my hit list.

Arc -- to be specific, the weak bend to the will of the powerful. The difference for us is that within the family, power dynamics have shifted due to urbanization and technology. Put any male and female together beyond the reach of law (ie. Swept Away) and it shifts back naturally. It is not about humans changing -- it is almost purely about how our lives are shaped within specific contexts.

Let's say:
1) Your wife-to-be chooses designer sperm to reproduce
2) Your love life is a series of flings and superficial relationships
3) Your main happiness comes through commercial goods and electronic media
4) You never confront birth or death in your entire life
5) Your life is defined by your employment, not your family
6) You are medicated effectively so as to ensure happiness
7) You don't age on the outside.

If this becomes normal and desired in 60 years -- is it a tragic future, or was your life tragic you saw it coming but could never learn to accept these changes as good?

It puts an interesting spin on living through social chaos.

 

[DanelMadr]

thank you SL I will add it to my hit list.

Arc -- to be specific, the weak bend to the will of the powerful. The difference for us is that within the family, power dynamics have shifted due to urbanization and technology. Put any male and female together beyond the reach of law (ie. Swept Away) and it shifts back naturally. It is not about humans changing -- it is almost purely about how our lives are shaped within specific contexts.

Let's say:
1) Your wife-to-be chooses designer sperm to reproduce
2) Your love life is a series of flings and superficial relationships
3) Your main happiness comes through commercial goods and electronic media
4) You never confront birth or death in your entire life
5) Your life is defined by your employment, not your family
6) You are medicated effectively so as to ensure happiness
7) You don't age on the outside.

If this becomes normal and desired in 60 years -- is it a tragic future, or was your life tragic you saw it coming but could never learn to accept these changes as good?

It puts an interesting spin on living through social chaos.

Siddharta was distracted from reality and still felt unhappy, they couldn't hold him...he searched and found suffering....tried every extreme to conquer it and finally discovered balance and trap of egoic mind....and became Buddha.

Therefore I believe people cannot be distracted from the truth by artificial conditions of material/sexual... abundance. Greed and lust are deadly sins for a reason. They make the real you die.

 

[wait_out]

This thread has got me jazzed on reading. Nice reference

 

[Burroughs]

Let's say:
1) Your wife-to-be chooses designer sperm to reproduce
2) Your love life is a series of flings and superficial relationships
3) Your main happiness comes through commercial goods and electronic media
4) You never confront birth or death in your entire life
5) Your life is defined by your employment, not your family
6) You are medicated effectively so as to ensure happiness
7) You don't age on the outside.

If this becomes normal and desired in 60 years -- is it a tragic future, or was your life tragic you saw it coming but could never learn to accept these changes as good?

yes....we seem to be on the road to much of what you described.

Now ask yourself this.

Who profits from this system?

hint: As always the most important rule- FOLLOW THE MONEY

 

[Warrior74]

yes....we seem to be on the road to much of what you described.

Now ask yourself this.

Who profits from this system?

hint: As always the most important rule- FOLLOW THE MONEY

Who is the Controller? Who is our Mustafa Mond?

 

[DanelMadr]

yes....we seem to be on the road to much of what you described.

Now ask yourself this.

Who profits from this system?

hint: As always the most important rule- FOLLOW THE MONEY

I sincerely believe that those who profit most are natives of Pacific Islands.
They live in best environment conditions, don't work so hard and still have access to modern medicine.

Second guess are unemployed on welfare....when you take energy spent vs energy gained. Native Americans in US and Gypsies/Roma in EU.

Third would be the kids of rich, who don't feel like continuing in parent's steps.

Fourth are Panda bears...lazy azzholes-not even multiplying...and protected by death penalty.

 

[Burroughs]

"...they who control the credit of a nation, direct the policy of Governments and hold in the hollow of their hands the destiny of the people. " - Reginald McKenna


and also maaan fvck the pandas!!!

 

[DanelMadr]

"...they who control the credit of a nation, direct the policy of Governments and hold in the hollow of their hands the destiny of the people. " - Reginald McKenna


and also maaan fvck the pandas!!!

Da bankers? I wonder what will happen when everyone is in huge debt, unable to pay.
Will they demand our blood? I knew it. Bloody vampires.

Blade, where are you, man?

No seriously, they are pain and we need to be on lookout but what can they do to us in the end? Enslave? For how long? They can't be that stupid. What is their goal? Brave New World? Hardly their idea of good society. Besides they are not united.

What does Mr. Rothschild support, for example? Except Israel, which I guess.

 

[wait_out]

They can't be that stupid....

When it comes to human stupidity, it's best not to limit your imagination. I'm sure we can think of examples when the aristocracy ended up clueless and eventually getting the chop (french revolution, hint hint). If you read books like Germinal, by Emile Zola, frustration and stress bubbling under the surface will can end up exploding and reshaping societies in ways that aren't planned or foreseen. Which is kind of what happened in the Arab Spring, actually.

On another note, Bali, Indonesia was one of the nicest places I've been in my life. Not materialist since you are essentially spending all day in boardshorts swimming, then dripping water and sand all over your car. Sometimes I feel like living in North America is like choosing to live in a mental asylum... Considering how F_d up much of the world is, I don't know why we overcomplicate everything here.

 

[Julius_Seizeher]

The answers you seek can only be found in reason. Reason is man's only source of knowledge; rationality and logic, not mysticism and supernatural revelation.

The mystics have always posed as superior to those of us who live on the planet earth, with no better explanation than a self-righteous sneer and a varying form of the sentence, "If you have to ask, you cannot be told."

When I see you talk about the stupidity in the world, then launch into a tirade about zen buddhism, you don't know how right you are.

"Siddharta was distracted by reality" If that doesn't tell you, that one sentence, about the nature of the destruction in and around you, nothing else will. It is not reality that vexes you, but your attempts to evade it or your incompetence to face it. It is the extent to which you are distracted from reality that you will suffer.

Reality is real, it exists seperate and regardless of your wishes, whims, thoughts or desires--and the evidence of a successful life is the extent to which you may discover reality's laws and use them to advance yourself.

 

[DanelMadr]

The answers you seek can only be found in reason. Reason is man's only source of knowledge; rationality and logic, not mysticism and supernatural revelation.

The mystics have always posed as superior to those of us who live on the planet earth, with no better explanation than a self-righteous sneer and a varying form of the sentence, "If you have to ask, you cannot be told."

When I see you talk about the stupidity in the world, then launch into a tirade about zen buddhism, you don't know how right you are.

"Siddharta was distracted by reality" If that doesn't tell you, that one sentence, about the nature of the destruction in and around you, nothing else will. It is not reality that vexes you, but your attempts to evade it or your incompetence to face it. It is the extent to which you are distracted from reality that you will suffer.

Reality is real, it exists seperate and regardless of your wishes, whims, thoughts or desires--and the evidence of a successful life is the extent to which you may discover reality's laws and use them to advance yourself.

Actually you are mistaken on Buddha, from what I know and understand.

Based on his teachings he wasn't seeing/comprehending reality as Siddharta.
He went to mysticism etc. tried every possible approach and came out with 'balanced' approach. We can call that reason. However even then he wasn't able to "get it". Only after he faced his deamons/ego he become Buddha. His ego was distorting reality the whole time the same way ego is hiding reality from Nice guys or Azzholes.

Objective reason, not distorted by wishful thinking, approval/love seeking or fear. I believe that is Buddha's message. Not to be confused with Buddhism. Being a Buddhist is oxymoron.

 

[DanelMadr]

When it comes to human stupidity, it's best not to limit your imagination. I'm sure we can think of examples when the aristocracy ended up clueless and eventually getting the chop (french revolution, hint hint). If you read books like Germinal, by Emile Zola, frustration and stress bubbling under the surface will can end up exploding and reshaping societies in ways that aren't planned or foreseen. Which is kind of what happened in the Arab Spring, actually.

On another note, Bali, Indonesia was one of the nicest places I've been in my life. Not materialist since you are essentially spending all day in boardshorts swimming, then dripping water and sand all over your car. Sometimes I feel like living in North America is like choosing to live in a mental asylum... Considering how F_d up much of the world is, I don't know why we overcomplicate everything here.

We are longing after their 'inner peace'. They are longing after our medicine, technology and plasma tv. That's why they let you running around in shorts and sand in azz-crack.
Nothing prevents you going native....sell everything and it should buy you a life there. Just don't be surprised when no one comes to help you after tsunami or pirate attack.....for all westerners gave up materialism like you.

I know what you mean but there is middle way. And it can't be enforced by minority or even majority political pressure....it is individual business. You can escape the rat race more easily in 1st world than in 3rd, where freedom, food, water and shelter is hard work, thanks to bad start and lack of motivation (you build something, guys with AKs take it).

 

[wait_out]

Strawman argument. Go see for yourself before you generalize about a place you've never been to. You talk about business, I've seen many expats thriving in the 3rd world who would be struggling here. You have to understand that making more money means nothing when the cost of living isn't flat.

As for guys with AKs, they make very good friends at times and can be quite amusing. Be smart, avoid actual conflict zones, and most of the 3rd world is a joy to travel.

 

[DanelMadr]

Strawman argument. Go see for yourself before you generalize about a place you've never been to. You talk about business, I've seen many expats thriving in the 3rd world who would be struggling here. You have to understand that making more money means nothing when the cost of living isn't flat.

As for guys with AKs, they make very good friends at times and can be quite amusing. Be smart, avoid actual conflict zones, and most of the 3rd world is a joy to travel.

Are you serious?

 

[wait_out]

Happy travels dude!

http://www.amazon.com/Robert-Peltons-Worlds-Dangerous-Places/dp/0060011602

http://cafe.comebackalive.com/

Don't miss this thread either

http://cafe.comebackalive.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=14237

 

[DanelMadr]

Happy travels dude!

http://www.amazon.com/Robert-Peltons-Worlds-Dangerous-Places/dp/0060011602

http://cafe.comebackalive.com/

Don't miss this thread either

http://cafe.comebackalive.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=14237

All I wanted to say was that we build civilization for a reason.
It has it's disadvantages but we are still better of living in it. Bali is living on tourists, without 1st world they would suffer.

Guys with AKs can be OK, I met a few, myself, however I wanted to point out the reason why people in 3rd world generally don't aspire for more and therefore live on minimum, which seems so non-materialistic ....when you become too rich or grow more bananas....bad guys gonna rip you off....success demotivator. And I don't blame them. Problem is when bad season comes and you have famine, thanks to lack of overproduction.

 

[DanelMadr]

Ridley Scott planing on doing the movie. Can't wait.