not to be religious! but...

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hardwork

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Fuel on the fire

Wikipedia: Nietzsche
Nietzsche argues that Jesus transcended the moral influences of his time by creating his own set of values. As such Jesus represents a step towards the [Übermensch]. Ultimately, however, Nietzsche claims that, unlike the [Übermensch], who embraces life, Jesus denied reality in favor of his "kingdom of God." Jesus' refusal to defend himself, and subsequent death, were logical consequences of this total disengagement. Nietzsche then analyzes the history of Christianity, finding it to be a progressively grosser distortion of the teachings of Jesus. He criticizes the early Christians for turning the story of Jesus into a story of redemption, and misusing his teachings to gain power over the masses; by the 19th century, Christianity had in fact become completely worldly–a corruption of something which, Nietzsche felt, was itself nihilistic.
I guess I listened to too much Rage Against the Machine in my formative years, but I have the utmost respect for people who stand to the uttermost for anything. I can find things with which I might not agree with Jesus, but I respect him as a renegade.
 

Duke

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Fundamental question here:

Of what practical use is RELIGION?

I didn't say "spirituality." I see uses in personal spirituality. But organized, codified religion: WHY? The only people who REALLY benefit from religions are people who need or want to be told what to do and what to think.

That's why it was such a great tool for kings of ages past. Kings could codify the beliefs of the masses so that they were willing to work in his favor.

Now, I don't have anything AGAINST people in religions, although I do question their motives for being a part of one.

I grew up Roman-Catholic and went to Catholic elementary, middle, and high schools. I took religion classes all my life.

And in almost every class, another person's version of morality was shoved down my throat. "Do this so that you can be a good person." When I got to high school, they even started preaching against pre-marital sex, trying to tell us how unsafe it is, and how emotionally damaging it is for girls. Typical societal condition BS.

Luckily, my sophomore high school religion history teacher saved me from overgeneralizing my views on people who practice religions. He was a grad of MIT and had thoroughly researched everything he taught. He told us flat-out that the story of Adam and Eve was a FABLE meant to illustrate points. He told us how the ideas of "heaven and hell" and "angels and devils" came about. It turns out that the typical "horned, red devil" often depicted in art was inspired by the Greek god, Pan. Christians conquered the Zoroastrians. The Zoroastrians didn't like the Greeks. So in order to have the Zoroastrians peacefully succumb to the Christian empire, the Christians decided they would make Pan into the religion's symbolic enemy. It worked.

Countless other tales in the bible originated from cultures in similar ways. And unfortunately, people today use these same stories as a basis of truth on which to live their lives. Sad... very sad.

My sophomore teacher also tried to relate the teachings of Jesus to us by showing us pieces of "The Matrix" and how Neo was a character meant to represent Christ in certain aspects.

Does the Church try to modernize its message? No. Does the Church try to educate the world about the true origins of the religion? No. Because then people wouldn't be controlled by ignorance and fear like they are now.

So while my teacher demonstrated to me that there are intelligent Catholics who can practice the religion and live by its tenants, he's in the minority. He wasn't an actual lay-person by the way. He was a "brother", and he was still free to be with women.

The Church is only interested in control, and most of the people who practice religions do so because they were force-fed the beliefs at a young age and either don't question it or don't have the intellectual ability to analyze a system.

I, myself, am agnostic. I don't claim that there aren't ANY gods, because IMO that's just as self-righteous and ignorant as what a fundamentalist Christian says. Truth is, we can't KNOW anything aside from what can be proven. And people who claim to KNOW things that are impossible to prove or disprove irritate me to no end.

So again, my question is: Why be apart of a religion?

Do you need the communal validation? Do you need reassurance that you're a worthwile person? Do you just want to be accepted? Are you confused about what is appropriate or inappropriate behavior?

Please, enlighten me, true believers!
 

Bible_Belt

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Your criticisms of the church are valid. I have many disagreements with organized religion myself. Many followers use church as a social club and never actually read or attempt to follow the Bible.

But the Bible is often negative toward mankind, the laws of man, and worldly power. When a modern church is corrupt, it emphasizes the corrupt nature of mankind that is expressed in the Bible. I see the negative sides of humanity as reinforcing religion, not contradicting it. The stories of the Bible are mostly about times where the minority viewpoint was correct and the majority was wrong.
 

frivolousz21

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it is funny to me that..the guys that my gf is friends with are very involved with the church..

and they all have this hidden animosity towards me, after I argued some views with them.

now her friends really dont repsect me just because I said its not possible the earth was created in 6 days..or the entire earth was flooded, or that humanity has only been here for a few thousand yrs.

or maybe its because they tried for yrs to get in her pants and I came along and took over.

regardless Im sick of religious people not respecting people who dont share the same views.


but I still stand for what I say about Christ
 

Bible_Belt

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Is your girl pro-choice, too? It is a divisive issue to say the least.

I find that I seem to stand with opposite crowds on several issues. Being pro-life and anti-war seem like the same value to me, but those crowds despise each other. Religion in the US has become so closely tied to politics and the Republican party that when people learn that you self-identify as a Christian, they think they know all of your political beliefs.
 

frivolousz21

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self-identify as a Christian, they think they know all of your political beliefs.

this is true.

Ironically I am pro choice, pro gay marrige, anti-iraq, pro stem cell research, anti drilling in alaska.

I just want the best for the human race on earth...I dont think religion should play a role in the survival and betterment of the human race

and im a heavily democratic.
 

Tazman

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most of the people who practice religions do so because they were force-fed the beliefs at a young age and either don't question it or don't have the intellectual ability to analyze a system.
Agreed.
I, myself, am agnostic. I don't claim that there aren't ANY gods, because IMO that's just as self-righteous and ignorant as what a fundamentalist Christian says. Truth is, we can't KNOW anything aside from what can be proven. And people who claim to KNOW things that are impossible to prove or disprove irritate me to no end.
I'm an agnostic also, and I can certainly relate to this "irritation" very well.
 

wavejams007

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Originally posted by Bible_Belt
Your criticisms of the church are valid. I have many disagreements with organized religion myself. Many followers use church as a social club and never actually read or attempt to follow the Bible.

But the Bible is often negative toward mankind, the laws of man, and worldly power. When a modern church is corrupt, it emphasizes the corrupt nature of mankind that is expressed in the Bible. I see the negative sides of humanity as reinforcing religion, not contradicting it. The stories of the Bible are mostly about times where the minority viewpoint was correct and the majority was wrong.
I agree as well. But the thing is that the bible has an innate ability to have different meanings to those that read it, and a lot of people fear what it will mean to them. People often use churches for a sense of security and as you mention, as a social club, and in doing so, miss the whole point of it.

As to the negativity of humanking reenforcing religion, that wasn't coincidence.
 

wavejams007

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Originally posted by Tazman

I'm an agnostic also, and I can certainly relate to this "irritation" very well.
I would actually consider agnosticism if I didn't feel the need for tradition so much. Personally, I would like to get rid of the pope, get rid of all the protestant denominations, and unite Christianity again. I don't see that happening though any time soon or in the distant future.
 

Ricky

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Atheists are just as outspoken as fundamentalist Christians in expressing their beliefs.

I am Christian, but I don't worry about arguing it with nonbelievers. I just tell them "I want you to go to hell so I'm not going to argue about it with you!" then I smile.
 

Boner da Stoner

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Yes, but like many other stories...

Moses, god, the grinch who stole christmas...

We can use it to our advantage, and arguing about something being 100% WRONG(or untrue, or non-existant) is useless, since the logic(It is 100% wrong) is false.

Jesus may or may not have been real, but those who allude to him existing put on a mighty fine show. A show that is worth watching and taking lessons from.
 

diablo

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Not to be a spoilsport, but there's a longstanding rule that debates and discussions regarding both religion and politics are not allowed on the forum. There are many valid points in the thread, however the rule remains. Thanks for your understanding.
 
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