No, we can't just be friends!

[DJ Girevik]

Re: Feeling longwinded again

Originally posted by Angstrom
That's why i said to DJ Girevik that, barring special circumstances, it will never work. Ever. If she's not the kind of ugly you'd gnaw your arm off to get away from, you are going to fall in love with her. You will become attracted to her physically. It might not be in a month, it might not be in a year. It WILL happen. I give you my Personal Guarantee on this one. Don't take my word for it, though. I know that the plural of anecdote isn't data, but consider it research. Ask your co-workers, friends, family about this. Virtually everyone who's tried to have a male/female has a story about it going wrong, or personally knows someone who's had a problem with it. If they say that there's no way anything would happen, ask them to imagine this scenario. Both people are in the same place, in the mood, and add alcohol or your substance of choice. Now, the woman says to the man, "I know we're friends, but I REALLY need to get laid, right now. I want you to take me, right here." or some permutation thereof. Do you really think you, or any guy, would say no? If you think you can, you're a better man than I.

Uhh, I think you're short changing the male gender in general. Most of my lady friends aren't "so ugly that I'd gnaw an arm off to get away from them", and no, I don't "fall in love with them" or "become attracted to them physically. Just cuz it happens to you doesn't mean it happens to all other guys. (and no, I'm not gay.) I don't start falling for any chick who will give me the time of day who isn't revolting; I mean, isn't that AFC? Having lady friends is a fun way to practice DJ techniques like kino or c+f while still just being friends.

 

[Angstrom]

Re: Re: Feeling longwinded again

Originally posted by DJ Girevik
Uhh, I think you're short changing the male gender in general. Most of my lady friends aren't "so ugly that I'd gnaw an arm off to get away from them", and no, I don't "fall in love with them" or "become attracted to them physically. Just cuz it happens to you doesn't mean it happens to all other guys. (and no, I'm not gay.) I don't start falling for any chick who will give me the time of day who isn't revolting; I mean, isn't that AFC? Having lady friends is a fun way to practice DJ techniques like kino or c+f while still just being friends.

It seems like you're missing my point. It's possible you misunderstood my use of the word friend. I wasn't really talking about casual acquaintances. I'm talking about women you'd spend a significant amount of time with.

When you say "... any chick who will give me the time of day who isn't revolting...", i wasn't really referring to those women. So, your co-workers, or carpool friends or whatever, go ahead and do whatever you want with them. I'm not saying that you should never flirt with a woman. Practice your kino your c+f, do anything, just keep it casual.

As I see it, the problem happens when a man and a woman become more than just acquaintances. That's what i'm talking about. I'd imagine one can keep female acquaintances for a lifetime, as long as they remain acquaintances and only that.

 

[Squy]

To me, "a friend" is someone you hang out with. A female friend is almost the same as a male friend.
But since she is female, she has certain female values, in the same way that a male friend has his male values. This means you can't talk about certain topics or do certain stuffs with her. With that difference in mind, a friend is according to dictionary.com and I agree with them:

1. A person whom one knows, likes, and trusts.
2. A person whom one knows; an acquaintance.
3. A person with whom one is allied in a struggle or cause; a comrade.
4. One who supports, sympathizes with, or patronizes a group, cause, or movement: friends of the clean air movement.

*Definition attempt done*

Originally posted by Angstrom
The only woman you should ever be friends with is your girlfriend.
If you're already friends with a woman, either date her or don't talk to her anymore unless you're a masochist.

You are talking solely about a female, I have a sexual or deeper relationship interest in. But in order to get her to like me more... somehow I became "just a friend". Sticking around her, and never give up that hope of someday she will fall for me...
This is what you meant right? If yes, I agree with you. We call it for LJBF crap here.

For more information:
This post is an excellent one: Friendship zone or hell? What do you call it?
Isn't this what you tried to convey in this thread?

And a little bit off-topic maybe:
Is there any advantages to having female friends?
Collect and Trade Your Female Friends Today!

Anyway welcome to to the DJ realm

 

[NoMore]

Re: Re: Feeling longwinded again

Originally posted by DJ Girevik
Uhh, I think you're short changing the male gender in general. Most of my lady friends aren't "so ugly that I'd gnaw an arm off to get away from them", and no, I don't "fall in love with them" or "become attracted to them physically. Just cuz it happens to you doesn't mean it happens to all other guys. (and no, I'm not gay.) I don't start falling for any chick who will give me the time of day who isn't revolting; I mean, isn't that AFC? Having lady friends is a fun way to practice DJ techniques like kino or c+f while still just being friends.

I just wanted to add something to this comment, even tho I know it is a little off from the main point of the thread. I agree with DJ Girevik here, female friends are good to practice on.

First I believe a female friend will never, NEVER, be like a male friend. I have a couple female friends that i hang out with all the time...but its only when I go out to the club or bar. No buying drinks for them, no calling, no *****ing about things, no bonding, its purely a go out and have fun relationship.

Second, practicing on these women can be a good thing. I was practicing on one of my female friends, a little alcohol was thrown into the mix and all of a sudden I have a friend with benefits.

 

[corruptrelic]

Nice post, kind of reminds me of Ron Louis & David Copeland.

Personally I don't mind being friends with a woman if I'm not attracted to her, I'm not really understanding the "the only female friend you should have is your girlfriend" thing. I can understand you being friends with a girl who you like, but she doesn't feel the same way. No guy should ever have to be in that situation, it kills you slowly! (I've been there once. Finally had to let the girl go after a year of realizing this "friendship" was only making her see me more like a brother.)

I do have female friends but I don't believe there is any such thing as "just friends" between men and women because there is almost always someone who likes the other more than they should. (I've never been in a situation where both myself and the girl both equally felt no attraction, although I'm sure it's possible.) If you know that either person (the guy or the girl) will go for more, or feels attracted to the other, then it's not "just friends".
Has anyone else ever been with a girl who hangs out with other guys and maybe says things like "they like me" or "I'm going out with X tonight, he asked me" (obviously attempts to get you jealous). On the outside you should always remain calm and act like you don't care, but on the inside, any guy with common sense knows that's not "just friends". Maybe she doesn't feel anything for him, but how much do you want to bet the guy doesn't see it the same way? (Since most guys are AFCs they tend to stick around girls as their "friends" hoping some day she might change her mind, even if they are too embarassed to admit it.) My first girlfriend left me for a so called guy "friend". (When I asked her why she spent time with him I got the "just friends" excuse. Back then I didnt really care, never thought much of it. He's just a friend right? Now today what a mistake!)

If anyone has read the Player's Bible (I'm a little lazy to look up the quote right now) it mentions that if your girl is hanging out with other guys she's probably sleeping with one or all of them and her "Oh so i can't have guy friends right?" line is used to make you feel guilty. Be cautious and catch on to her, then let her go.

I kind of drifted off topic a little here from the main post, but I am in pretty much agreement with it.
Has anyone else had experiences with "just friends", in particular girls who you are just starting to date who still see other guys, but have the guts to blame it on "just friends" (Which to me is "just an excuse" so she doesn't have to take responsiblity or put any blame on herself, blame it on the guy instead.)? Anyone else tired of hearing "We're just friends!"

 

[Angstrom]

Multiple Replies

Squy, you're probably a troll, but i'll bite again.

You are talking solely about a female, I have a sexual or deeper relationship interest in. But in order to get her to like me more... somehow I became "just a friend". Sticking around her, and never give up that hope of someday she will fall for me...
This is what you meant right? If yes, I agree with you. We call it for LJBF crap here.

No. I'm not talking about women you're interested in. I'm talking about all women. Whether you've asked them out or not. The only contact you should have with women (non-family, lest you nitpick again) is one of the following: casual/non-sexual, like a coworker; casual/semi-sexual like NoMore described,

First I believe a female friend will never, NEVER, be like a male friend. I have a couple female friends that i hang out with all the time...but its only when I go out to the club or bar. No buying drinks for them, no calling, no *****ing about things, no bonding, its purely a go out and have fun relationship.

or finally, feel free to date women all you'd like. The ones you date are the only ones you can become friends with.

Of the ones you date, the only ones you can be friends with are the ones you continue to date.


Corruptrelic:

Nice post, kind of reminds me of Ron Louis & David Copeland.

I don't know who those guys are. I got the basis for these ideas from Tom Leykis, and this. I think the second link is intended to be read in kind of a tongue in cheek manner, but i'm not sure. (ADDED) Not to mention all the experiences i've had with this personally, and seeing my friends go through the exact same things i'd gone through.

Personally I don't mind being friends with a woman if I'm not attracted to her, I'm not really understanding the "the only female friend you should have is your girlfriend" thing. I can understand you being friends with a girl who you like, but she doesn't feel the same way.

Here's the thing. If you like her enough to want to be close friends with her, you will fall in love with her. Not necessarily soon, but one day.

 

[Squy]

I'm sorry, if my posts made you feel bad. I'm not a fan of misunderstandings, therefor I wanted to clarify things, so that everyone including me, get your main points. Which I finally get in your last reply, thank you.

Although at this time, I don't agree with you on the "not being friend with any females, except gfs" issue. I do encourage you to post more. In this way we might learn new ideas from you, and if you're open for it, you might learn new stuff from us as well.

 

[Angstrom]

Originally posted by Squy
Although at this time, I don't agree with you on the "not being friend with any females, except gfs" issue. I do encourage you to post more. In this way we might learn new ideas from you, and if you're open for it, you might learn new stuff from us as well.

Here's the thing. You don't agree with me, tell me why! Prove me wrong. I really want to be wrong. I'd love to think that I was wrong and I could realistically go back to whoever and just be friends and be happy with it. I'm not some woman hater who's got an axe to grind.

I doubt you'll reply to me unless I give you some incentive. You've got over 500 posts under your belt, have you ever really made a point in any of them? And do me a favor, stop with the backhanded compliments. If you think i'm stubborn and closed-minded, tell me so. Don't tell me that you think you can learn from me but you disagree with me, so that you can say that I might be able to learn something.

All said, I don't have anything personal against you, I just want to know why i haven't convinced you.

 

[Squy]

Why I don't agree with you.

I don't agree with you because my personal experiences are different than yours. I don't find it problematic to befriend females.

Currently I have a friendship with some girls, who I hang out with in the weekends. Naturally being a guy I do now and then look at their tits, but I swear it's not sufficent enough to make me want to bed any of them.
These girls are the type that, unless they are very horny, and you are their perfect type of sexually attractive god, they would only have sex after marriage.

3 of them have a boyfriend. Who are also my friends. I'm unsure if these 3 girls are sexually attracted to me, but for sure they are attracted to me. There are many other reasons for why they aren't girlfriend material, I won't go into detail here.

Beside I just want to have them as social proof, and obviously my DJ practice on them worked.
This is a challenging situation. When I got the chance I subtly told one of them, that she is my good friend. The worst thing that could happen is one of them dumps her boyfriend because of me. I really liked those guys, and it won't be pretty if such things happen.(the "bros b4 hoes" rule in action here).

My female friends tried to hook me up with other chicks, but so far only turn-me-off chicks. I hope they keep trying, since it makes my chances of seeing new chicks easier. Also they tried help me out with my clothes, telling me what looks good on me. See they are'nt useless

I get to see new, possibly hot chicks by them, you know, friends' friends' friends.

Another thing is asking them about dating advice and their view on these subject we're talking about here. It's really funny sometimes. I don't recommend this to everyone though, you better know what you're doing.

Your comments, questions or anything you wonder about, are welcome. Although I hope this is my last post.

 

[corruptrelic]

Hey squy, "Can't we just be friends?"
I agree with your post pretty much I think there's a huge difference between "attraction" and "feelings". Even though your post was directed at Angstrom I am sort of on his side when it comes to the other way around - girls with too many boy "friends".
I think (maybe, angstrom can correct me if I'm wrong) maybe he meant more along the lines of what I just said, if you don't have any feelings for the girl, there isn't a problem with friendship. You know a LOT of AFCs will become attracted to a girl, play the "friend" and hope he will get her. The problem with this is the more time you spend with the girl, the more you like her. And you just dig the hole deeper and deeper and then climbing out becomes quite a task. (Aka "one-itis")
But it's funny how your post only strengthens my belief that there is no such thing as "just friends" between men and women. A lot of guys I met (not even AFCs) say they stick around as the friend until the boyfriend is gone, but while they stick around (as you suggest) you still flrit with her, you are keeping the attraction there, not really deep into the "just friends" zone.
lol and asking your girl "friends" for dating advice? Yeah I've tried that a few times and it usually goes like "Well I like nice guys who want to be friends first." it's funny but I would never take a woman's advice on dating. On things like looks (hair, etc.) and clothing types they can be good advice though.

Not really much point to this post I guess just that I've come to not really care for the word "friend" I had to say something. And me personally if I meet a girl who goes out with a lot of guys and uses the "just friends" excuse, she's gone. But strangely enough, I usually get the girl to stop seeing the other guys, with a blend of kino, romantic C&F, and things like "fate".
If you have a boyfriend, why would you want to go out with other guys anyway?

I'd buy into pigs flying before I bought into a girl saying "We're just friends." I'm sure there are a lot of disagreements, but honestly, can men and women really be "just friends"? You are always going to find your "friend" attractive, chances are one will develop feelings for the other but wont be able to admit it. But as far as one of my female friends, angstrom I wont fall in love with her, because she weighs 250 pounds!
I dont make friends with girls Im attracted to, what is that doing to your self esteem when you hang out with girls who you have NO CHANCE with? Isn't it better to go out with girls who like you, and want to be with you?
Go out with guy friends, meet girls, use team work, be the wolf pack and back eachother up as you go in for the kills, laugh at the "nos" and celebrate the "yeses".
Other than guy friends you go on dates, and if you know your game, you are dating a few women at the same time. There is no need for "friends" because you get that already from your fellow guys, and the women you do meet, there is sexual chemistry and interest between you, even though it's not serious.
In my opinion, that's a lot better for your confidence and self esteem, than going out with women you who like but you know you cant have.
I know this post kind of jumped around a bit but in the end for me at least, I dont believe men and women can be "just friends", and if you buy into a girl you're dating using the just friends excuse, there's a good chance the next excuse will be "it just happened".
It'd be interesting to see varied opinions on this.. maybe a new post "Can men and women really be 'just friends'?" I'd like to hear what others have to say..

 

[Angstrom]

Squy,

Gonna keep this one quick. If you really think there's nothing at all there, lemme ask you this.

You mentioned that you're worried that you might break up one of the relationships.

This is a challenging situation. When I got the chance I subtly told one of them, that she is my good friend. The worst thing that could happen is one of them dumps her boyfriend because of me. I really liked those guys, and it won't be pretty if such things happen.(the "bros b4 hoes" rule in action here).

When was the last time you worried that you were going to steal one of your male friends away from his female (Added emphasis) girlfriend? Now, i'm guessing that you probably don't run across that situation very often. Why do you suppose that is?

 

[Santos]

Thank you!

Thanks for giving me the fvcking wake up call I needed. I am in the EXACT situation you described, thinking the exact things. I was telling myself that it's not a good idea trying to just be friends, and now you've just CONFIRMED it. You have woken me up and I have seen the light, hallelujah !

 

[Squy]

about the subject: Never befriend females, NBF for short

Originally posted by corruptrelic
Hey squy, "Can't we just be friends?"

Sure corruptrelic! *reach out hand, shake hand, - Hi, I'm Squy, nice meeting you*

I agree with your post pretty much I think there's a huge difference between "attraction" and "feelings". Even though your post was directed at Angstrom I am sort of on his side when it comes to the other way around - girls with too many boy "friends".
I think (maybe, angstrom can correct me if I'm wrong) maybe he meant more along the lines of what I just said, if you don't have any feelings for the girl, there isn't a problem with friendship. You know a LOT of AFCs will become attracted to a girl, play the "friend" and hope he will get her. The problem with this is the more time you spend with the girl, the more you like her. And you just dig the hole deeper and deeper and then climbing out becomes quite a task. (Aka "one-itis")
But it's funny how your post only strengthens my belief that there is no such thing as "just friends" between men and women. A lot of guys I met (not even AFCs) say they stick around as the friend until the boyfriend is gone, but while they stick around (as you suggest) you still flrit with her, you are keeping the attraction there, not really deep into the "just friends" zone.

I too agree with Angstrom in everything, except that little detail about NBF.
I think those newcomers, who had severe case of one-itis and LJBFs, to them Angstrom's advice is the way to follow. However that is not the entire truth and only option out there. You could, with the knowledge from Sosuave.com choose to befriend women and thus gain advantages.

lol and asking your girl "friends" for dating advice? Yeah I've tried that a few times and it usually goes like "Well I like nice guys who want to be friends first." it's funny but I would never take a woman's advice on dating. On things like looks (hair, etc.) and clothing types they can be good advice though.

You're absolutely right.

Not really much point to this post I guess just that I've come to not really care for the word "friend" I had to say something. And me personally if I meet a girl who goes out with a lot of guys and uses the "just friends" excuse, she's gone. But strangely enough, I usually get the girl to stop seeing the other guys, with a blend of kino, romantic C&F, and things like "fate".
If you have a boyfriend, why would you want to go out with other guys anyway?

This ******** translation says it all (from "The manipulative, cold hearted man with tits" )

She has a boyfriend on the side, but (WOW!) she’s ready to leave him for you.

Translation : “I’m giving you a big flat clue on my honesty and loyalty. I love you so much… You can trust me! Ha! I have no integrity, and I love it! Hopefully, you are too dumb to see that I’m a taker. I don’t have the guts to tell my current boyfriend that I want to end it before I get involved with you. I’m a little monkey with tits ; I won't let go of one branch till I get a grip on the next. When it gets boring with you, I’m gonna do the exact same thing. But don’t listen to your bullsh!t detector! Everything is all right. Yeah, that’s right, look at my tits… "

I'd buy into pigs flying before I bought into a girl saying "We're just friends." I'm sure there are a lot of disagreements, but honestly, can men and women really be "just friends"? You are always going to find your "friend" attractive, chances are one will develop feelings for the other but wont be able to admit it. But as far as one of my female friends, angstrom I wont fall in love with her, because she weighs 250 pounds!
I dont make friends with girls Im attracted to, what is that doing to your self esteem when you hang out with girls who you have NO CHANCE with? Isn't it better to go out with girls who like you, and want to be with you?

This is what I have learned. If I find the chick attractive, I go for her, if she flakes out or anything else which shows low interest *poof* I'm gone. She is out of my life, no casually meetings, no chit chats, no nothing. She is now degraded to the same level at that neutral pedestrian I see across the road. That's easy right.
But with the friends thing, it gets more complicated. I might-be wrong in this subject, that had happened before. So until I get more experiences to be 100% sure (which could be never), I would not dismiss this idea of NBF.

Go out with guy friends, meet girls, use team work, be the wolf pack and back eachother up as you go in for the kills, laugh at the "nos" and celebrate the "yeses".
Other than guy friends you go on dates, and if you know your game, you are dating a few women at the same time. There is no need for "friends" because you get that already from your fellow guys, and the women you do meet, there is sexual chemistry and interest between you, even though it's not serious.
In my opinion, that's a lot better for your confidence and self esteem, than going out with women you who like but you know you cant have.
I know this post kind of jumped around a bit but in the end for me at least, I dont believe men and women can be "just friends", and if you buy into a girl you're dating using the just friends excuse, there's a good chance the next excuse will be "it just happened".
It'd be interesting to see varied opinions on this.. maybe a new post "Can men and women really be 'just friends'?" I'd like to hear what others have to say..

Me too, please share with us your experiences and viewpoints.

 

[Squy]

Thank you for your short and nice questions.

Originally posted by Angstrom

When was the last time you worried that you were going to steal one of your male friends away from his female girlfriend?

I can't remember the last time.

Now, i'm guessing that you probably don't run across that situation very often. Why do you suppose that is?

I suppose because I don't see the point of doing so. Why would I "steal" him from his female friends??

Nevertheless your first post was a good one, congrats.

edited: I mixed words, I thought you wrote: "When was the last time you worried that you were going to steal one of your male friends girlfriend away from him?" sorry.

 

[Angstrom]

Misunderstood me again.

Squy,

For some reason, i'm having a hard time making myself clear. Are you really reading what i'm writing?

I wanted to know when the last time you were worried you were going to steal one of your MALE friends away from HIS female girlfriend. In other words, you and him are "just friends", not in a homosexual sense but actually just friends, and you talk him out of dating her so you and him can be friends.

Second question still applies.

 

[Squy]

I updated the last reply.

I think it has something to do with the "female girlfriend" term lol
And thanks for correcting me.

 

[Blue Phoenix]

Originally posted by corruptrelic

If anyone has read the Player's Bible (I'm a little lazy to look up the quote right now) it mentions that if your girl is hanging out with other guys she's probably sleeping with one or all of them and her "Oh so i can't have guy friends right?" line is used to make you feel guilty. Be cautious and catch on to her, then let her go.

Bump!

Anyway, That´s pretty much what I preach here. This "friends" line is just a label used to deceive us. Guess who use those lines???

You just have to see the situation where this "friends" line is being used in order to know If it´s the common "LJBF" or an excuse for promiscuous behavior.

This thread is gold. This quote even more!

 

[tonysat]

classic post and very true

just recently i left two girls who i did end up getting with but got the LJBF line, adn then i just left them. took me long enough to realise being friends with girls ur interested in will barely ever work. ...

and its true how you said they tell u all abt it.. *sigh* such *****es sometimes...

i made it a point i wont be friends with a girl im not attracted to date,

BUT

the girls who im not interested / attracted to seem to find all their ways to get me 2 like them.. which is kinda fun 2 seem them try hard.. as long as i get with other chicks.. my friends ( who are girls ) call me a player n all that.. but i just smile and say U wish..
aaha...

funny thign is the girls who im JUST FRIENDS WITH know im not SO picky, yet i just dont pick em.. they even call me "EASY" ...
this is when the manipulative ***** comes into play...

there is a lot of concept in ths post and you're spot on..

excellent!!!! cheers !

 

[dearsappho]

"Do not become friends with a woman you are not having sex with"

Forgive me if I missed your point but becoming friends with a woman you are not having sex with can lead to sex...with her friends!

 

[tonysat]

good point !