No sex yet after 5 dates

[BillyPilgrim]

I wonder how the actual sexual build up between you guys is. Do you only kiss her? No touching up , grabbing her whatever body part ect?? Because even if she withholds sex for 5 dates , it should be pure torture for her as well.

Perhaps the problem is you, and your lack of game. Ask the right questions and perhaps you'll get your answer. Tons of stuff matters and when you are oblivious to game you might be missing clues she's giving you. I'm talking about how she dressed ,looked at you ,tone of voice , ect.How far you took it. Honesty about red flags...could ask tons of questions about it and 5 dates will give you plenty of material to pick from...

Do you guys even talk about sex?

Not if she's Italian, these women are extremely talented at controlling their sexual impulses due to deeply ingrained sexual transmutation in their culture. Be grateful you don't have too many of them down in South America.

With some women, game won't matter because they are so structured. In that case, the game is in screening her out beforehand.

 

[Bigrig]

@BillyPilgrim she's not italian but she seems pretty serious about the catholicism despite drinking a lot. Your assessment on the first post is seeming pretty accurate, plenty of mixed signals.
After I see her she's also always asking when can I see you next. @Gamisch Of course my game is a factor and I could be doing better, but I think she is really wanting to take things slow, I could be wrong but that's what it feels like.
As some of you have mentioned it's up to me and what I want, problem is I'm still figuring that out. Got out of a serious ltr about a year ago and then a shorter one after that so I've been enjoying being single

 

[BillyPilgrim]

Maybe put her on the backburner until mid-summer, the heat tends to loosen up the hard cases.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

@BillyPilgrim she's not italian but she seems pretty serious about the catholicism despite drinking a lot. Your assessment on the first post is seeming pretty accurate, plenty of mixed signals.
After I see her she's also always asking when can I see you next. @Gamisch Of course my game is a factor and I could be doing better, but I think she is really wanting to take things slow, I could be wrong but that's what it feels like.
As some of you have mentioned it's up to me and what I want, problem is I'm still figuring that out. Got out of a serious ltr about a year ago and then a shorter one after that so I've been enjoying being single

The drinking sounds like it could be a substitute for sexual activity. This is what's known as sexual transmutation, where they direct their sex drive into non-sexual outlets (like Italian women do with fashion, food and wine).

 

[Stanley]

After I see her she's also always asking when can I see you next. @Gamisch Of course my game is a factor and I could be doing better, but I think she is really wanting to take things slow, I could be wrong but that's what it feels like.
As some of you have mentioned it's up to me and what I want, problem is I'm still figuring that out. Got out of a serious ltr about a year ago and then a shorter one after that so I've been enjoying being single

My 2cents

I think you just need to do a little self reflection and figure out what is you want be self assured in that.

Maybe take what you've heard from here and consider the differing viewpoints and assess. Only you can really determine things, all we have is a small description of this girl from you and that isn't much. We don't know her, only you do in this scenario.

From your experiences with her these past 5 dates you should have a decent grasp of this girl on the surface level. You have to use your best judgment and while I think hearing others express their take on the matter can be helpful in gaining perspective, it can also inversely be detrimental and cloud your judgment. I personally would take a step back from all of this and reflect a bit and attempt to ground yourself so you can remain objective and do what is in your best interest moving forward.

Make this about you and what you want... because that is all that really matters in the end

 

[EyeBRollin]

I only read the first post. If a dingbat wants to tie you down before you can see the vagina. She's Cray cray.

Funny how times change. We used to want girls to not to be a sloot. Now, she is “cray cray” if she is not a sloot.

 

[devilkingx2]

Funny how times change. We used to want girls to not to be a sloot. Now, she is “cray cray” if she is not a sloot.

I'd say if you're a high value man, you don't want a girl who'll just bang any HVM, because she's eventually going to meet your high value friends, family and coworkers. A HVM doesn't have to worry about a girl not being into him.

But for an average man, if a girl makes you wait a lot of dates or for a strong commitment, it's a lot less likely that she's practicing sexual discipline to control her overwhelming lust.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

I'd say if you're a high value man, you don't want a girl who'll just bang any HVM, because she's eventually going to meet your high value friends, family and coworkers. A HVM doesn't have to worry about a girl not being into him.

But for an average man, if a girl makes you wait a lot of dates or for a strong commitment, it's a lot less likely that she's practicing sexual discipline to control her overwhelming lust.

Too much sexual discipline can be a bad thing too. If she can do that before sex, she can do that during marriage or a LTR.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

@BillyPilgrim she's not italian but she seems pretty serious about the catholicism despite drinking a lot. Your assessment on the first post is seeming pretty accurate, plenty of mixed signals.
After I see her she's also always asking when can I see you next. @Gamisch Of course my game is a factor and I could be doing better, but I think she is really wanting to take things slow, I could be wrong but that's what it feels like.
As some of you have mentioned it's up to me and what I want, problem is I'm still figuring that out. Got out of a serious ltr about a year ago and then a shorter one after that so I've been enjoying being single

Typically when a person pushes something very strongly to others, it's often times because they are the exact opposite of that but they want that to be hidden behind the giant wall they put up that says the opposite.

I'm not going to say it's always true, but it usually is. The more someone trumpets something "virtuous" or "chaste" usually means the opposite is true but they hope them saying that will cause people to never question that because "they wouldn't do something like that!"

This is the same concept in reverse when a woman says stuff like "we aren't having sex tonight" but it means you almost always are going to have sex tonight. Or evangelists who are "Men of God" stealing the money for their own personal use but nobody would think that because they are preachers.

If she is strongly suggesting immediately off the bat that she is a strong Catholic girl, I would be very unlikely to believe she is telling the truth and she is simply putting up a facade to hide what she is really like.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

Typically when a person pushes something very strongly to others, it's often times because they are the exact opposite of that but they want that to be hidden behind the giant wall they put up that says the opposite.

I'm not going to say it's always true, but it usually is. The more someone trumpets something "virtuous" or "chaste" usually means the opposite is true but they hope them saying that will cause people to never question that because "they wouldn't do something like that!"

This is the same concept in reverse when a woman says stuff like "we aren't having sex tonight" but it means you almost always are going to have sex tonight. Or evangelists who are "Men of God" stealing the money for their own personal use but nobody would think that because they are preachers.

If she is strongly suggesting immediately off the bat that she is a strong Catholic girl, I would be very unlikely to believe she is telling the truth and she is simply putting up a facade to hide what she is really like.

Regardless of what's behind the facade, you still have to put up with the facade to begin with. A "strong" Catholic girl may indeed be a freak in bed, but you still have to climb the walls of ASD. Similar to how a woman saying "we aren't having sex tonight" reveals that while she is indeed thinking about sex, it doesn't change the amount of increased number of sh1t tests you have to go through to get her into bed compared to a woman who is thinking about sex and *doesn't* say that. (And yes, you can still discern whether or not she's thinking about sex whether or not she verbalizes it).

So when someone pushes something strongly to cover something up, it doesn't change the fact that they are still a pain in the ass to deal with. The cost of the conquest will be still higher than with someone who is less difficult. And the spoils of the victory won't be any greater, or why else would there be increased resistance to begin with? The Catholic freak who gives you a great time in bed once you finally get her there will still be a headache from that point forward who won't be worth it 99.9% of the time. Rather than ASD, you will get another form of difficulty instead.

The best example of this is perhaps a woman who screams "NO HOOKUPS!" on Tinder. Yes, she has a high sex drive that has gotten her burned before, but the woman is still more difficult that someone who doesn't say that, everything else being equal. This is beyond obvious and anyone who says otherwise is full of sh1t.

The only time you can cost-control a "high-priced" woman is when you're dealing with an escort. With any other women, anything other than "token" difficulty is an early frame announcement (EFA) that isn't going to change. If a woman views her pu$$y as golden, she will still habitually try to extract gold from you.

 

[MatureDJ]

You need to plate her.

 

[MatureDJ]

She knows if you're waiting that long without ejecting, she has you hooked with the hope of s3x, she said ltr cause she can sniff your desperation for her, so you can still taking her on dates, paying for stuff, and she only giving you kisses in the mouth as reward

When you're kissing her you either tell her "I fvcking desire you, lets go back to my place" or you stay as the orbiter forever, paying dates to get some kisses"

If she doesn't wanna, eject, ghost her, move on the next one, she's playing you while you're paying for some kisses.

Exactly. She has no fear of the OP leaving since it is obvious that he has no options, as he would have left if he had.

 

[Juanto]

She would get one more chance from me and the second she stops the escalation I'd very calmly stop and tell her she has made it clear that she isn't into you in that way and that you wish her the best and hope she finds what she is looking for but that you don't have any more time to give her.

Then calmly get up and leave or ask her to leave if she is at your place.

If she has any interest in you whatsoever she will fvck the hell out of you after that.

Bingo, have done this before and it has worked

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Bingo, have done this before and it has worked

Me also...I had a woman who invited me over to her place on a 2nd date and we had dinner and kinda chilled and it got late and she was like 40 minutes from my place and she offered to let me sleep there and made sure to let me know she wanted me to sleep in her bed with her and not on the couch...

Went in the room, she stripped down to panties and bra and me to my boxers and I was pretty sure things were about to go down but she was super LMR and wouldn't let me go any farther. Got her panties off and was fingering her, she was super wet and was softly moaning but still wasn't going to do anything.

So I got up and said OK, I gotta get going and she was super surprised and was like why are you leaving?? And I told her I can't sleep in a bed with a woman who doesn't find me attractive enough to want anything from me and I turned to grab my hat and walk out of the bedroom door and I find her standing in front of it and she had this look in her eye and she said "You aren't going anywhere" and shoved me down on the bed and then proceeded to give me one of the best BJs of my life and then fvcked the hell out of me for a few hours and several rounds and then again twice more in the morning...

If a woman is actually interested in you, sex will never be the reason she loses you. She will ensure it happens.

 

[SW15]

This sounds like a power struggle and you are losing. She is low-key leading how things are going, you are not.

Having said that, I would pull back and focus on other girls and/or your hobbies.

Yes, this is a power struggle he is losing. Something is off about the way the woman perceives his frame, so exiting might be the best option here.

What are her views on sex out of marriage/relationships? What has she done in the past? Is she a diehard committed Catholic? Most Catholics drink and have premarital sex. I am one!

My gut tells me she is delaying sex because she isn't that into you.

According to Catholic dogma, sex outside of a marriage in the Catholic Church is forbidden. The diehard committed Catholics believe that.

Diehard committed Catholics are generally older and married, or already widowed.

Gen X Catholics ignored the no pre-marital sex rule while continuing to practice Catholicism.

With Millennials raised in the Catholic Church by Boomer parents, a very large percentage of them stopped practicing Catholicism as adults.

 

[CornbreadFed]

I think she's the slow burner type but I know she is interested.

It’s over lol

 

[lgbs2004]

That's why the 3 strikes rule is so important in dealing with women. If by the third date she's not ready to fvck, she's out!

 

[Bigrig]

Ok I have an update on this. After rescheduling on her a couple times she asked to come to my place for drinks. Whenever I would try to escalate there was some excuse, she even slept in my bed and was having none of it. "I dont feel like making out" "not in the mood" this morning she said i had bad breath from sleeping (told her that was rude). The whole thing has felt confusing. She will give me lots of random affectionate kisses, happy to wrap her legs all over me but whenever I have tried to take things further she pulls away. This isn't normal right? If she really has such low interest why would she even initiate these things? Any other girl that has acted like this will happily escalate. I think she is frigid tbh. This is a learning experience for me, I had succumb to the sunk cost fallacy. I had thought she could be ltr material before but as I get to know her I dont think thats the case as she's quite negative, always complaining.

 

[Stanley]

Ok I have an update on this. After rescheduling on her a couple times she asked to come to my place for drinks. Whenever I would try to escalate there was some excuse, she even slept in my bed and was having none of it. "I dont feel like making out" "not in the mood" this morning she said i had bad breath from sleeping (told her that was rude). The whole thing has felt confusing. She will give me lots of random affectionate kisses, happy to wrap her legs all over me but whenever I have tried to take things further she pulls away. This isn't normal right? If she really has such low interest why would she even initiate these things? Any other girl that has acted like this will happily escalate. I think she is frigid tbh. This is a learning experience for me, I had succumb to the sunk cost fallacy. I had thought she could be ltr material before but as I get to know her I dont think thats the case as she's quite negative, always complaining.

This is done.

It has been two months nearly with her, you gave her a fair shot. A girl refusing intimacy after this long of a time is likely mentally damaged or stringing you along (potentially both). I think it is time to cut your loses and let this one hit the bricks. Pull back HARD and move on. If she makes attempts to come back into your life then you can reassess, but do not become ensnared in her trap.

You gave it a go. You tested your own beliefs and underwent your own trials. I think now is time to just move on. Whiny, negative, complaining girls who don't put out after two months? Drop em. Don't hate them. Don't belittle them, just move on. Even if she was playing hard to get this is too long a period of time.

Step back, employ silence and distance, go for other girls and live your best life.

 

[CheekyMonkey101]

Usually if I haven't had sex by the end of the third date I'm out.

There's no real reason to allow a woman to make you wait when there are plenty more just as attractive as her (if not more) who will have sex with you quicker.