No sex? There's the door honey.

[STR8UP]

This was a blatant sh!t test AND power play, and you not only passed the test, but you also took the ball right out of her hands.

If you would have pretended not to care she would have lost respect for you.

If you would have pouted and turned into a wussbag or tried to beg her, she probably would have left the next morning and never talked to you again.

You did the right thing, no if's and's, or but's about it.

 

[Cableguy]

Thanks guys for the replies. Someone asked about the movie and why it was so important. It wasn't really. She wanted to finish watching the movie and tease me along the way. I motioned several times to the bedroom but she wanted to wait til the movie was over. Perhaps I was a bit complacent. Honestly, I just don't care.

Mr. Me...your comprehension of English is fine. Let me clarify that in my original post I said I kicked her out. Some took that (rightly so) to mean I literally said "get the **** out, etc" which I did not. She left my house because I made it clear she wasn't welcome is more of an accurate description. She has texted me several times today wanting to make it up to me. I'm gonna give her that chance in a few days I guess.

One of the reasons I posted this is because so many guys would have acquiesced if put in this position. It would have been easier and far less confrontational to just let it ride. Im my mind, that would been setting a precedent that she can ****tease me anytime she pleases without consequence. That ain't how I roll. Sometimes a dark, lonely, unexpected drive home is just what a women needs to pull her head out of her ass.

 

[princelydeeds]

I posted this is because so many guys would have acquiesced if put in this position. It would have been easier and far less confrontational to just let it ride. Im my mind, that would been setting a precedent that she can ****tease me anytime she pleases without consequence. That ain't how I roll. Sometimes a dark, lonely, unexpected drive home is just what a women needs to pull her head out of her ass.

Amen Brother and great call!! You did the right thing. Letting her get away with it is IMHO the absolute wrong call.

 

[Mr. Me]

She wanted to finish watching the movie and tease me along the way. I motioned several times to the bedroom but she wanted to wait til the movie was over.

That sheds a different light on my take of the sitch. I'd say that she's probably beginning to feel used a bit. I still think you handled it well at that moment, yet maybe you wanna do a little "relationship routine maintenance" in the next week or so just so she feels loved and understood and all that and gets to feeling you're the best thing since sliced bread again, know what I mean?

 

[STR8UP]

Im my mind, that would been setting a precedent that she can ****tease me anytime she pleases without consequence. That ain't how I roll. Sometimes a dark, lonely, unexpected drive home is just what a women needs to pull her head out of her ass.

The bigger issue here is the power play. If you hadn't shot it down it would have opened the door to a flood of bad behavior.

Showing her that you will not put up with this sort of thing is the key here, but the other thing that it is important to point out is that you also zigged when she thought you would zag. Never underestimate the power of throwing a woman for a loop. When you don't react the way a woman expects you to (she didn't expect you to tell her to leave) it sends a powerful message to her that you aren't a typical male.

The last chick that i dated for any length of time I totally threw her for a loop. She got upset a couple of times that I was talking to other women and stormed off in a tantrum. When I didn't call her and kiss her ass she got the message.

That's why I always say, many times the best action is INaction. The best way to deal with these kinds of things is to let her go on her way and let her think about what she's done.

 

[Nutz]

This is nothing earth shattering. It's raining today and I'm bored ****less so I figured I'd post about my evening last night with one of my plates.

This particular plate happens to be one of my favorites. She's young, hot, and loves sex almost as much as me..and that's saying something. All day yesterday she was texting me saying how horny she was, how bad she wanted me, yada, yada, yada. I was looking forward to seeing her.

She came over last night and we ended up chillin and watching a movie. The whole time she's rubbing my ****, kissing my neck, you know; the usual stuff a chick does when she wants to fvck. When the movie was over, she said she wanted to go to bed. I was down like four flat tires.

I get in bed while she heads to the bathroom. A few minutes later she comes in and climbs into my bed, with her clothes on. I'm thinking to myself, "why the hell is she wearing her clothes?" I ask her what's up and she says she's cold and needs to warm up. I figure I would help her warm up and we start kissing and whatnot. I try and get her pants off, like I've done so many times before, and she stops me. "I'm tired" she says.

Hmmm....something ain't Kosher bout this. You mean to tell me after a day's worth of naughty texts and a night of heavy petting, all of a sudden she's too tired for sex? That's the whole reason she comes over! To get a good old fashioned deep ****in. So why the change of heart? Shyt test 101.

I don't care for ****teases, and I won't tolerate them. I sat up in bed and told her I didn't appreciate the blue balls. She starts going on and on about how she doesn't like being used for sex and how I'm selfish and only care about one thing. She sounded alot like Charlie Brown's teacher, if you know what I mean. "waa wa waaaa waa wa waaaaaaaa." I'd heard enough.

I wasn't buying any of this. For God sakes, she's the one who is always wanting me to bang her out. I told her if she was tired and feeling used, to feel tired and used at HER house. I kicked her out last night at 12:41 am. Several angry text messages followed. Nothing unusual. I'm selfish, sex obsessed, don't know how to treat women, etc. Didn't phase me a bit.

About an hour ago I get another text from her. This one reads much differently. She apologized for being a bytch last night. She apologized for being a ****tease last night. She basically apologized for being anything other than a fun person to be with like she normally is. This girl likes me, and has been trying to figure out a way "in." The pvssy take away will not be a tactic she tries again anytime soon. At least not with me.

:rockon: Way to go! Wish there were more threads like this

 

[Nutz]

There was a guy that was in a similar situation. His girl was giving him signals all day, finally, when it came time to hit the sack, she said she was tired.

"I'm tired, can't we just cuddle?" she asked, still wearing her clothes.
"Ok Honey," the guy said.

The next they woke up.

"Hey honey, I have a great idea, lets go shopping!" the guy said

so they went to the most expensive department store.
"don't worry honey, get whatever you want!" the guy says.
so they spent the next three hours roaming the department store, her trying on different clothes, a few pairs of earings, and some shoes.

finally they wheeled their shopping cart to the check out counter, and after the sales clerk had totalled all the items, both the sales clerk and the girl looked at the guy with expectation.

"you know what honey," the guy said.
"i don't really feel like buying all this stuff. Can't we just watch the game instead?" and with that the guy turned and went to the local sports pub.

I've seen that one before and it's just as good now as it was the first time. Good find!

 

[Ambition Now]

Nice done!

I've done something similar before, once a girl I was starting to date and havent had sex yet saw me with a friend (female), she thougt my friend was another plate and started to text me saying how horny she was and stuff like that, I agreed to meet her at night on the same day.

We went out, had a few beers, some make out and when I touched her breasts she goes like: Calm down, lets move things slower, this is not very respectfull of yours...

I said to her: OK, so I think we should go home, I dropped her at home and went to mine.

2 days later I was fcking her! She was almost begging me to do it!

 

[princelydeeds]

It's not pretending not to care (your boner shows that you obviously care!) - it's proving to her that you care more about your own dignity and self control, than her sex. It's demonstrating that you won't let her control you with sex.

IMO either course of action is fine, as long as the message is clear - I'm not going to let you control me with this shyt test.

By not reacting and not nipping this in the bud you are saying it is ok, to be a c0ckt3ase. I fail to see how ignoring her c0ckteasing behavior, is saving your dignity. I think letting her stay and pretending that her not screwing you is ok, sets her up to think she can tease you and say no whenever she feels like it. You are indeed playing her game, by allowing her to get away with saying no. He who controls sex, controls the relationship.

Kicking her out says I refuse to play your game, I will not tolerate your crappy behavior and I have no problem letting you go if you want to play games.

 

[Cableguy]

Thanks again guys for your thoughts on this matter. It just goes to show, you NEVER know when a shyt test is coming. Now I knew this girl was gonna shyt test me, I just didn't expect it to happen the way it did.

That sheds a different light on my take of the sitch. I'd say that she's probably beginning to feel used a bit. I still think you handled it well at that moment, yet maybe you wanna do a little "relationship routine maintenance" in the next week or so just so she feels loved and understood and all that and gets to feeling you're the best thing since sliced bread again, know what I mean?

Funny you should say that. Great minds obviously think alike. The next time I see her I fully expect her to be super lovey dovey which gives me a reason to do just that.

 

[KontrollerX]

"Then let me suggest this: women are not static creatures. Just because she did something yesterday does not mean that tomorrow she'll feel the same way. Just because she had high interest before doesn't mean that can't change along the way. Am I right? They go from "I love you" to "I don't know what I ever saw in that assh@le", true? So now you've seen a little bend in the way she usually runs. And that indicates a change in her.

It could be that it seemed a game, she played along in the past, all was good. It may have bothered her before, but she let it slide, put it on the back burner, who knows? But now it's been getting to her. And proof of it is that she lashed out at you with her "you're selfish" speech. Where else did that come from?"

The great thing about becoming a DJ is you learn to stay in and accept your reality not ANY woman's.

So what if her feelings and beliefs about the relationship/situation are changing?

Fvck her and fvck caring about that.

The less you care anyway and just do things your own way the more women continue to be drawn to you and conform to your reality instead.

And if they leave you for not changing again I say fvck em.

Thats DJ mentality. A DJ isn't afraid of some b!tch walking away because there is another piece of talent just around the corner and he doesn't have the scarcity mentality all too common in the AFC's of the world.

The DJ mentality of only worrying about one's own reality is completely vindicated in that since CableGuy laid down the law and how things were going to be she's all over him again.

So yeah brothers don't worry about "relationship maintenance" just do your own thing and if your woman bends to your will thats the only "quality" woman you are going to find in this world so be happy and if she leaves don't cry your eyes out or be scared as you are a DJ and can get somebody else and you will never compromise your reality to live in some woman's. Relationships are a power struggle and the one who maintains their own reality and does what they want to do ultimately wins whether the partner leaves or stays. Living in your own reality by your own rules is the only happy way to live. Compromise and all that bullsh!t is for Dr. Phil and Oprah to continue preaching to unhappy couples the world over that doesn't cure their unhappiness one iota.

"That sheds a different light on my take of the sitch. I'd say that she's probably beginning to feel used a bit. I still think you handled it well at that moment, yet maybe you wanna do a little "relationship routine maintenance" in the next week or so just so she feels loved and understood and all that and gets to feeling you're the best thing since sliced bread again, know what I mean?"

Won't work.

She'll interpret it as weakness and her ultimately having been right and start to lose attraction.

He needs to keep doing what he's doing and leave her under the impression that she fvcked up.

Its up to her to do the "relationship maintenance" now so as not to lose him.

Thats high level game. Thats high self esteem game.

What you are proposing is AFC self sabotage I'm sorry to say.

And I know your posts could have simply been trying to make the guy aware of what his woman was really feeling so as to alert him to potential trouble down the road but again it doesn't matter as concerning oneself with that is just entering into the chick's reality and is unproductive when simply doing one's own thing and maintaining one's own reality in the face of the woman's demands/wants/wishes usually produces the desired result in them anyway rather than attempting to "change for them" or address their complaints head on "with relationship maintenance" which would just be the man failing the sh!t test anyway and symping the fvck out.

 

[princelydeeds]

Won't work.

She'll interpret it as weakness and her ultimately having been right and start to lose attraction.

He needs to keep doing what he's doing and leave her under the impression that she fvcked up.

Its up to her to do the "relationship maintenance" now so as not to lose him.

Thats high level game. Thats high self esteem game.

What you are proposing is AFC self sabotage I'm sorry to say.

Agreed Wow, you are right on!! That is an excellent point She is the one who did wrong, it is absolutely up to her to make amends. The next time she comes around I would definitely give her much attitude, she needs to prove that she is sorry for playing games!!!

 

[Mr. Me]

So what if her feelings and beliefs about the relationship/situation are changing?

Fvck her and fvck caring about that.

She'll interpret it as weakness and her ultimately having been right and start to lose attraction.

rather than attempting to "change for them" or address their complaints head on "with relationship maintenance" which would just be the man failing the sh!t test anyway and symping the fvck out.

Women are the ones that terminate relationships most of the time, exit them, file for the majority of divorces, and why? There are only a handful of reasons, and some of the big primary ones are when they feel dominated, abused (emotionally or physically), neglected or taken for granted. Resentment builds, they fall out of love eventually - and leave.

If you want the chick to lose her love for you and terminate the relationship, then fine, erode it and in time, she will unless she's a masochist.

So if you're a DJ, if you're a Man, you don't abuse, neglect, take for granted or dominate your woman. The way to keep her around is to give her, once in a while, that affection and understanding they want. It doesn't make you weak to do that. If that's what you think, then you've got the wrong idea of how to go about that. It's not about supplicating to her any more then treating your children to something or treating your mom to something would make you appear weak. It's not about changing for them, nothing changes about you... it's about giving them what they need and they'll stay in love with you. That should be part of a man's routine as a DJ anyway.

 

[KontrollerX]

"Women are the ones that terminate relationships most of the time, exit them, file for the majority of divorces, and why? There are only a handful of reasons, and some of the big primary ones are when they feel dominated, abused (emotionally or physically), neglected or taken for granted. Resentment builds, they fall out of love eventually - and leave."

If a woman stays in a situation where her husband is kicking the crap out of her that woman is an AFC in her own right, even iqqi would agree with that.

As for feeling dominated well that part of your argument doesn't make sense as its dominance that women want most just not in an overbearing and controlling sense.

Lets see where are we at now...

Emotional abuse? LOL, bro in today's world women will claim emotional abuse whether its a DJ or an AFC husband demanding that they do their share of the house workload. We live in the era and age of entitlement so most of the reasons you cited don't carry the weight that they would of had they been cited as reasons for divorce by women from a different era ie 50 years ago.

Back then words meant what they meant.

Today they have been bastardized by the entitlement generation to mean something different.

"Oh that man is attacking me!"

Uh no lady he just called you out for what a moron you were and did so in an intelligent and articulate manner.

"Oh my boyfriend is abusing me!"

What, because he has a set of balls and doesn't allow you to go clubbing with your girlfriends if you want to remain in a relationship with him?

"If you want the chick to lose her love for you and terminate the relationship, then fine, erode it and in time, she will unless she's a masochist."

Why do you think the "jerk", "DJ", "Player", "Pimp" advice has been so thoroughly promoted on this forum for all these years even in the golden age of Pook?

Its because most women are exactly that.

Masochists and gluttons for punishment.

Not necessarily hardcore bound and gagged whipped till your nearly dead punishment but a kind of below the surface self hate and need to treat themselves badly which is why the jerk, playa, DJ makes them so hot for that type of guy.

As for "love" in todays world it is exactly what Metaphysical a.k.a DJDan has said it was and that is its simply anxiety and confusion you create in a woman's mind which she then interprets as love and you create this by becoming the jerk, DJ, alpha, what have you and its so unusual to the AFC pandering worship she's used to she can only naturally become anxiety filled and filled with confusion around you which then once again becomes interpreted as love.

As long as you be that DJ for her she will not "fall out of love with you".

Most of the posts we get here where guys come crying about their girl leaving them is after they "went AFC" and what does "went AFC" typically mean? It means they started supplicating, symping the fvck out, changing for the woman, and actively being under her reality which means taking her complaints and wishes at face value and then acting on them ie they then fail the sh!t test which is precisely why your advice in this instance does not work. Relationship maintenance in response to a female's complaint means you just failed the sh!t test and didn't hold your ground. You now entered her reality and she sees how weak you are and indeed interprets you to be weak and undesireable for that reason even if she acts like everything is well at first and that she is happy you complied with her demands.

"So if you're a DJ, if you're a Man, you don't abuse, neglect, take for granted or dominate your woman. The way to keep her around is to give her, once in a while, that affection and understanding they want. It doesn't make you weak to do that. If that's what you think, then you've got the wrong idea of how to go about that. It's not about supplicating to her any more then treating your children to something or treating your mom to something would make you appear weak. It's not about changing for them, nothing changes about you... it's about giving them what they need and they'll stay in love with you. That should be part of a man's routine as a DJ anyway."

And sure you give nice things to women such as affection and all that good stuff but the difference from what I'm saying and what you're saying is I'm saying you only give it on your own terms.

NEVER after a woman has indicated a demand for it.

That will always be interpreted by her on some level as you failing the sh!t test.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

I'll concur with the majority here, it's a frame grab, and a planned one at that. The reason I say that is because you've established a routine or a series of rituals that lead up to her ƒucking you - the texts, the sub-communications, the sexual kino, etc. You've even got quirky sex games, where you do something indifferent (make popcorn?) and she bangs you. This is a ƒuckbuddy and she knows she is.

When a woman wants to step out of FB status, she has to devise a way to force your hand. Generally this is a frame grab sh!t test built around a presumed reward (you ƒucking her again is her agency). She builds on what she knows you'll expect (i.e. your pre-sex routines) and then denies the reward.

I think you handled this admirably, but look at the bigger issue here. In a few of my posts about Surrogate Boyfriends and LJBF / Friendzone pulls I make the comparison that an AFC surrogate BF is analogous to being a FB for women. Where a surrogate BF essentially provides all of a woman's emotional needs she isn't getting from the Jerk BF who's ƒucking her, there's no expectation of reciprocating sex or intimacy for the surrogates support. For a female FB the opposite is true; no reciprocation of emotional attachment for her continued sexuality. So when both the AFC BF surrogate and a female FB try to make that jump into some kind of reciprocal arrangement, they withhold the reward that they presume the other person has grown accustomed to and will reset in order to get that same (though now compromised) reward. My guess is that her freeze out was just such a push.

 

[Cableguy]

This was the first time she has tried a freeze out on me. This chick has been nothing but a blast up until now. She fvcked up and I took the necessary steps to get her back in line. The next time I see her I expect her to be extra nice. Judging by her text messages she is DYING to make this up to me. If she behaves herself then I will reward her with my time and attention again.

I remember reading when I first signed up here to treat women like children. Reward them when they are good and punish them when they are bad. Too many guys turn a blind eye when the woman or women in their life start acting up. It becomes much more difficult to enforce what your expectations are when you've already failed crucial shyt tests. I try and make it clear from day one I won't tolerate flakey behavior and shyt tests, especially ones that cause my balls to change colors. Like Barney Fife once said.."you gotta nip it in the bud."

There's another dynamic at work here. I believe this is the part where alot of guys fvck up. She mistakingly thought that she "had" me. I do things for her now that I didn't do before. For instance..backrubs. I have no problem giving her a backrub after a long day. This is something I didn't do when we first hooked up. I think I may have unwittingly sent her the message that I'm more emotionally invested than I really am. She confused my varying displays of affection with an interest to take things to the next level. Hence, she thought she had me where she wanted me.

This is where being consistent in your behavior as a MAN is a must. Let's pretend for a moment that I was crushing on this chick and had started to develop feelings for her. Would her shyt test have worked on me then? So many guys play the whole DJ thing up until they actually cop feelings for a chick. Maybe you compliment her more, are available more often, i.e. give her a level of attention she is unucustomed to getting from you. Women pick up on this and a shyt test, a test of your MANHOOD is sure to follow. In my opinion it's why so many dudes can't keep a chick very long, or get stuck with a bytch who manipulates them every time they don't play by her rules.

 

[Tazman]

Great thread, these kinds of stories are proven to me time and time again. I just get irritated that my friends won't listen to me when I try to advise them. They make the same text book mistakes over and over again.

The less I focus on women and the more I focus on myself, things just get better and better.

 

[STR8UP]

Too many men are afraid to put their foot down, and the ones who do often get confused as to HOW to put their foot down.

If you would have gotten pissy with her it wouldn't have been as bad as having accepted her behavior, but almost.

There is a fine line here and it all depends upon the status of your relationship and how much leverage you have with a particular woman.

You have a lot of leverage with this one because her interest is high. You can afford to fukk up in cases like this, but all too often a few little slips here and there and all of the sudden she doesn't return your calls anymore.

This was actually a turning point in your relationship whether you realize it or not. Your actions told her a lot. She now knows that 1) You are a MAN who has balls 2) You don't NEED her or sex.

If you would have failed the sh!t testing would have intensified and each time you failed her interest would dwindle. Since you did just the opposite, it snapped her out of her sh!t testing mindset for the time being and increased her respect and attraction for you.

For anyone who doesn't know, I am a HUGE advocate of using as few words as possible to counter sh!t tests, put women in their place when need be, and TRAIN them not to do it again. In your case you played it perfectly. You used as few words as possible and didn't get emotional. Had you made some big flowery speech before throwing her out it would have shown her that she can rattle your cage and that's not good. Since you played it cool and used ACTIONS instead of words, she gets left with a whole bunch of questions floating around in her head which is a GOOD thing.

A woman's worst enemy is her own imagination. Don't kill the effectiveness by filling in too many blanks. Let her mindfukk HERSELF.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Too many men are afraid to put their foot down, and the ones who do often get confused as to HOW to put their foot down.

And that's the crux of so very many common maladies of AFCs. The deductive, immediate logic is the ONLY logic. The fear of rejection too often becomes the fear of losing the "sure thing", the guaranteed sex, in relation to the prospective sex with other plates (or the proven sex).

A woman's worst enemy is her own imagination. Don't kill the effectiveness by filling in too many blanks. Let her mindfukk HERSELF.

A woman's imagination is the DJ's singular best tool in his toolbox. In fact, of all his tools, all the PUA skills and techniques, should intensely focus on her imaginations; foster it, develop it and nakedly manipulate it to his control of frame.

That may seem cruel, that may seem self-serving, but it is only as egotistical as the DJ employing it. The DJ with the best in mind for himself and his mate (or perspective mates) makes rules that benefit himself and his mate(s).

 

[KontrollerX]

"If that's what you think, I think you need to find better women man"

From the so called "good girls" on down to the lowest bar skank they are all masochists and gluttons for punishment to varying degrees dude.

Half of Sosuave accepts that reality whilst the other half clings to the myth of the quality woman to protect their societal implanted fantasy ego investments.

Sosuave, Zenmack, Neil Strauss, Mystery, Tucker Max, Tom Leykis etc would never of been in operation or successful at all if the mythical quality woman that the Morality Crew/Next Level Gamers believe in so strongly was out there as if that archetype existed to begin with we'd all have our own perfect quality woman to be married to for life under the supplicating AFC mentality that most of us grew up with and were nurtured by society to have.