No sex? There's the door honey.

[piranha45]

If that's what you think, I think you need to find better women man

You speak as though its a bad thing. Maybe you're a really passive pansy yourself? Again, if so then it's not a bad thing, but straight men want a woman that enjoys being man-handled.

Or maybe you're just some teenager who doesn't really know what all these big words mean? 0_o

 

[princelydeeds]

If that's what you think, I think you need to find better women man

I'm assuming these "better women" will be hanging out with the easter bunny, Santa Claus, and the Tooth Fairy.

 

[Aenigma]

"If that's what you think, I think you need to find better women man"

From the so called "good girls" on down to the lowest bar skank they are all masochists and gluttons for punishment to varying degrees dude.

Half of Sosuave accepts that reality whilst the other half clings to the myth of the quality woman to protect their societal implanted fantasy ego investments.

Sosuave, Zenmack, Neil Strauss, Mystery, Tucker Max, Tom Leykis etc would never of been in operation or successful at all if the mythical quality woman that the Morality Crew/Next Level Gamers believe in so strongly was out there as if that archetype existed to begin with we'd all have our own perfect quality woman to be married to for life under the supplicating AFC mentality that most of us grew up with and were nurtured by society to have.

The hardest thing that anyone here had to accept was that we've been lied to since childhood.

Everything that we've been taught that is "bad" for a man to do (be a jerk, date/sleep with multiple women, make her jealous, look out for our own interests first, listen to our thoughts and opinions and ignore hers when she stops her little feet, etc) is actually the right thing to do if you want lots of sex or even a happy and successful relationship.

I've seen with my own two eyes that when you bark orders at a woman, treat her like she's easily replacable, laugh at her demands, and otherwise treat her like garbage then she'll happily lick your feet clean and ask for seconds. Yet if you take that same woman and then start being nice, calling all the time, telling her you love her all the time, take her to dinner every night, etc (basically doing all the AFC things that you've been taught by "soceity" (TV and movies) to do since you were a kid) you'll quickly find that those feelings of "infinite unending love" and "we're soulmates meant to be together for life" will disappear faster then you can say "WTF" and she'll have a heart of Ice towards you. Its extremely counter-intuitive.... the fact that the social reinforcement flows almost completely in the AFC direction makes it even harder to identify these facts- let alone change your behavior.

 

[Mr. Me]

As for feeling dominated well that part of your argument doesn't make sense as its dominance that women want most just not in an overbearing and controlling sense.

Yes, that's how I meant "dominance". There's a difference between being a leader and being domineering.

Why do you think the "jerk", "DJ", "Player", "Pimp" advice has been so thoroughly promoted on this forum for all these years even in the golden age of Pook?

Its because most women are exactly that.

And women don't eventually dump jerks? Of course they do, when the pain of the abuse is greater then the reward. They're not with the jerk because they want abuse.

I'm talking about keeping a woman around. Just about anyone can get a woman, but keeping her around is the trick.

And sure you give nice things to women such as affection and all that good stuff but the difference from what I'm saying and what you're saying is I'm saying you only give it on your own terms.

I never said to supplicate to her. I'm saying a man has to keep his finger on the pulse of the relationship and notice when there's a slight temperature drop. Even notice when her breathing changes, that's how subtle it can be. And when that breathing changes, you need to tend to it, just like you do when you notice your car isn't humming like it used to.

This woman's behavior changed. It signals a change in her. Whatever you want to attribute it to, the bottom line is it needs attending to, because to keep on the same track means it's going to become the routine and probably get worse. So cableguy doing the same thing every time is going to result in a never ending pattern; a dance the two of them engage in. She'll get pissy, there won't be sex, he'll tell her to leave, she'll be angry then she'll apologize. Until the day she decides she's had enough. Or he does first. Sounds like fun... but there's another way to go.

Seems to me she sees an inequal balance of give and take, that appears to be her complaint. It may be a legitimate complaint for all I know, though she didn't express it in the best way. So her manner of delivery needs to be corrected, which he did by drawing a line, and that's about cableguy setting boundaries. All well and good. But that still leaves her complaint and her anger/resentment feelings she'll probably harbor inside and this little problem soon enough becomes a bigger problem not so easily taken care of. That has to be dissipated, not allowed to linger or build, if you wanna keep her around. And you do that by making her feel good, more then feel bad. Simple as that.

 

[princelydeeds]

I never said to supplicate to her. I'm saying a man has to keep his finger on the pulse of the relationship and notice when there's a slight temperature drop. Even notice when her breathing changes, that's how subtle it can be. And when that breathing changes, you need to tend to it, just like you do when you notice your car isn't humming like it used to.

This woman's behavior changed. It signals a change in her. Whatever you want to attribute it to, the bottom line is it needs attending to, because to keep on the same track means it's going to become the routine and probably get worse. So cableguy doing the same thing every time is going to result in a never ending pattern; a dance the two of them engage in. She'll get pissy, there won't be sex, he'll tell her to leave, she'll be angry then she'll apologize. Until the day she decides she's had enough. Or he does first. Sounds like fun... but there's another way to go.

Seems to me she sees an inequal balance of give and take, that appears to be her complaint. It may be a legitimate complaint for all I know, though she didn't express it in the best way.

With all due respect, I think the flaw in your argument is that you are saying there has to be an imbalance for a woman to initiate a sh!t test. Most **** tests occur IMHO when a woman starts feeling little or no great emotional tug. When women get bored or too comfortable, they start trying to control or jostle you for rank. Rarely, unless you are simply being overboard with a$$holishness, will she start shi!t testing if she is unsure or you are giving her enough yin/yang in the challenge department.

there does have to be a balance of give and take in any relationship. In my relationships, I admit to being comfy with approximately a 70/30 mix (she does 70% of the giving i do 30% of the giving, conversely I do 70% of the receiving and she does 30% of the receiving). I've noticed when I go outside of this ratio (ie 50/50, 60/40) i am not happy or the woman isn't happy for very long. There is too much balance, I like to be served while being very independent. If she sees herself as my true equal, it simply will not last long. I find women love to be dominated, and the ones who don't enjoy it will never be the woman for me!!

 

[Cableguy]

I get the jist of what Mr. Me's point is. He's not telling me to supplicate or kiss her ass. He's merely giving me a head's up to restore the "good" feeling she has for me and suggesting I see if her test was predicated on her harboring some bad feelings perhaps. I get it.

When this chick, or ANY plate I'm spinning thinks about me, I want that thought to be a pleasurable one for them. An erotic one. One that gets them hot for me. Obviously a woman harboring ill feelings will be focusing her attention on things other than "how can I please this a-hole." I want the women I date to WANT to please me.

If she was LTR material I would certainly be keeping my finger on the pulse of the relationship. She's not, but nonetheless I want to enjoy our time together to the fullest. I know it bothers her that I won't commit. I can't help that. She knew where I stood from day one. Her shyt test was a gauge to see if she could rattle me. She tried. She failed, and her interest level couldn't be higher.

 

[Luthor Rex]

I think calling her out on it would have worked well too. Saying something like:

"You've sent me text messages all day, you were just stroking my c0ck a few minutes ago, and now you're surprised when I try to have sex with you?"

Let her know that you know she's acting like a retard. Throw in some sarcasm with it too.

"And you'll be wondering why I'll be fvcking your best friend." Ok maybe that would be a bit too far.

 

[KontrollerX]

"I know what you're talking about man, believe me. But what you're saying isn't true for every woman"

I think it very much is and to explain it to you better I will say you should take a look at my last post again where I said "varying degrees" and think more deeply about that.

Still not getting it?

Alright I'll explain it now that I've got your focus on those two words.

I believe all women are masochists and gluttons for punishment to varying degrees.

I have had discussions with women that were as well adjusted and upstanding of citizens and human beings as it gets who would get the 100% grade A quality woman stamp of approval from the Sosuave morality brigade tell me that every once in a while they liked it if their man acted jealously angry towards them thinking they had ideas to get with other guys and if a guy mistreated them in such a fashion they then feel like they are cared about.

Now this is an example that I have heard from many so called "quality women". These women are not closet wackjobs or nuttier than a pack of planters peanuts they are as normal as blueberry pie.

And this desire is one of those VARYING degrees of deep down craving punishment for having done nothing wrong. A slight masochistic desire just below the surface making itself known.
Flip the script now and we go to our next example a woman who posts on seduction forums from time to time whose identity will remain anonymous for this example but has been labelled by many posters morality crew types included as being a low quality woman and as one morality crew member dubbed her "a low quality bar skank".

It should also be noted that this woman in particular has been arrested before and was proud of the fact and considers it a positive life experience so in addition to being low quality by morality crew member standards she is also a fvcking moron but I digress.

Here is her story in her own words...

I still managed to end the night depressed!

Guess why!

Because I choose men who hurt me. And I pick that emotion over all of the happiness brought my way by people who care about me. And I don't know what to do about it, I don't know how to Not Care about stupid men!

I have been thinking about this for a couple of hours now.

The tricky part is that I do not go for "bad boys". I go for men who are nerdy, introverted, shy, deep. Supposedly. And they treat me GREAT at first. They open doors for me, they treat, they stand out in the rain with an umbrella to make sure I don't get wet. But then they do something that should tell me to no longer consider them.... and what do I do?

I don't walk away. I don't stop thinking about them. Or trying to figure out what is the deal. I don't say "screw that loser, don't give him a second thought!" Instead of facing the fact that they are not some great guy like I thought, I keep thinking about all the great things they did. It's like I refuse to get past that great guy FACADE they put up, and see they aren't really so great! And that I should not care about them! I can't STOP caring about people who don't deserve my feelings!

Alright you've read the example and are presumably intelligent enough to understand that she is lying through her teeth when she speaks of the men being "nerdy introverts" ie the AFC type.

No...

The men this woman dates and cannot get enough of exhibit DJ behavior in that they hurt her in some jerk/playa/pimp like way and this behavior rather than make her run for the hills instead makes her care even more for them.

Her masochism and glutton for punishment needs are in much greater strength than the masochism needs and glutton for punishment needs of the women the morality crew foolishly deems "quality women" because they think those women are "different" at their core but in reality the low quality bar skank and the supposed high quality woman only vary in degrees when it comes to their self hate, masochism and glutton for punishment needs.

More examples...

The supposed high quality woman in the morality crews eyes is a woman who will do hours upon hours of stamina draining housework and then when her man gets home from a hard day's labor have food on the table for him and maybe even give him a foot rub before they get down and dirty to close out the night. This type of woman that would enjoy this sort of activity may of existed 50 years ago or didn't enjoy it but just did it anyway because it was the thing to do back then but the point I want to make is...for those women that did enjoy it do you really think the act of doing hard work is what brought joy to their lives or was it not the act of hard work that brought joy to them but rather instead a deep dark masochistic need to let the husband rule over her like this because in some dark recessesive corner of her mind she enjoyed the slavery and implied dominance of the whole scenario? Even the Bible written by primitive bronze age people talks about how the husband will rule over the woman and only then will the marriage see its full blessings which of course are obvious once you realize and accept that women seek to fulfill a masochistic need in varying degrees.

Moving on to the other example we once again turn to the opposite end of the spectrum that being the so called low quality woman type. These women take many forms from the woman like Rihanna who stays with a guy that beats the crap out of her and calls that love to the low quality bar skank who loves men ever more deeply when they hurt her emotionally.

The desire for masochism and punishment is self evident.

"even if it is true for 98% of them. And I think it's a DJ thing to do to strive for the 2 or 3% of quality women"

I agree with the spirit of what you are getting at but of course the way I put it is not "quality women" but those women whose masochistic needs are barely simmering as opposed to boiling over.

So in effect what you and those of your belief consider "quality women" I consider women whose natural masochistic needs are highly toned down and as non existant as you can possibly find. Such women are those that are marriage material and usually end up getting married for life to their highschool or college sweetheart at 18-21 and good luck finding one of them out in the field as with all the hardcore competition out there this type gets snapped up quickly and the rest of us are left with the chicks that are only good for one thing and I'd say are basically somewhere in the middle as far as their needs for masochism go which is why the seduction community in many forms has sprung up and thrived. We all learn to cater to the women we are left with's masochism hence Pook's brilliant post once upon a time titled "The Secret of the Jerk".

Jerk like behavior of course feeding into the woman's natural desire for masochism.

"People like different things, not all women are attracted to degrading treatment, that's just a massive overgeneralisation IMO."

And I never said degrading behavior.

Masochism needs can manifest themselves in many different ways other than degrading behavior which I would eloquently define as say having someone sh!t on your chest or using you as a human urinal etc.

For example performing long hours of house work, slaving over a hot stove, taking the kids to school and then polishing the husband's knob are moreso pleasurably demeaning to the morality crew's idea of a high quality woman who gets her jollies via the traditional form of masochism than it is "degrading behavior".