No real motivation to meet/date girls anymore

[BergischerLöwe]

I told you not to go because if you cheat on your religion then you might get a nervous break-down, like I did, 9 years ago. The mind doesn't process or assimilate things that go against its core programming. The happy medium I have found between visitng an escort and my state of mind has been OnlyFans. That is because you are just dealing with a screen and you can't get contaminated the same way by a screen.

However, the way I portray it in posts, I would guess its symbolic, poetic, or fits a narrative of that worst case scenario of darkness in terms of gender dynamics. You have to be a true cynic in some ways. However, doesn't it feel good that at least on paper, or theory, that a woman is just a phone call and couple of hundred dollars away if you are that desperate, or in my case, even cheaper? I don't know about you, but it makes me feel like the man, lol! Pure escpaism I guess.

Yeah at the end of the day it's always an option, even if it's not one I would take

 

[corrector]

Yeah at the end of the day it's always an option, even if it's not one I would take

Women have lots more options they never take either. While it does not level the playing field, at least you feel good you can reject this option. That is why its always an option of last resort (ie esp. if you start groping women or manneqins, etc....).

 

[BergischerLöwe]

Women have lots more options they never take either. While it does not level the playing field, at least you feel good you can reject this option. That is why its always an option of last resort (ie esp. if you start groping women or manneqins, etc....).

Same thing goes for hooking up with mid women. It's an option available to me but I don't want to do that anymore

 

[GoodMan32]

Indeed. Back in 2014 when I had used the escorts, the price was $ 60. Currently, the going rate for a Spanish escort in a Spanish brothel is $ 70-80, but there is one still around for $ 60 (ie but that one has "no blacks/no blacks under 40" which would put it lower on a priority list).

With me a girlfriend would be different than an escort since you can go different places with a girlfriend and have a shared experience and history, and of course, she is exclusive with you so it's not really a valid comparison. However, on principle, I mean to further illustrate its not cost-prohibitive.

However, when I had the mental break-down caused by a spiritual attack after visiting the last escort, there were other expenses:
1) I rented a hotel for a few days, that cost a few hundred dollars.
2) I bought a bunch of herbal medication from the health food store, that could have cost like a couple of hundred dollars, etc...
While I paid $ 60.00 for that escort, I lost a month and spent around $ 500 indirectly to treat myself and was out of commission.
Just because it's cheap doesn't mean its easy on your system after post-nut clarity sits in. I think the cheaper it goes the more your conscience bites you.

On the topic of escorts banning black men (I know we've discussed some of the reasons before), the last escort I was with shared another reason:

She said sometimes a black "client" turns out to be a pimp (and tries to get the escort to work for him). She spoke from experience.

 

[corrector]

On the topic of escorts banning black men (I know we've discussed some of the reasons before), the last escort I was with shared another reason:

She said sometimes a black "client" turns out to be a pimp (and tries to get the escort to work for him). She spoke from experience.

I find it hard to believe that some white clients also somehow dont do the same things as well.

The issue is if an escort gets a bad white client, she chalks it up to the individual and might block him. If it is a black person then everyone in the whole race is banned. Unless an escort can really say that no white person has ever done the same thing then it is racist. When people dont like black they tend to make up excuses rather than chalking it out to screening the individual. I would concede that blacks can have additional screening as is better than outright banning.

When an escort says no blacks then also consider that some dark whites from southern Italy/Europe, Arabs, dark Indians and Hispanics might also be caught in that no blacks net. What excuses would they have for them? They dont like their culture and are too aggressive? Its a slippery slope as well. You dont know if its really no blacks or if its whites (and maybe some asians) only.

For black incels you have to say that this is really harsh since we dont have a last resort option of getting an Asian gf or using most escorts unless they are really expensive or too ghetto. If you are not a Tyrone or Chadrone with BBC then there is a good excuse to being trucel/incel. (I cant ever be trucel as I am divorced. At least I got married once. The two escorts I visited in the past did not reject me on my race).

 

[sangheilios]

@BergischerLöwe

I haven't readthrough this entire thread, so I'm not sure if this has been mentioned already or not.

The modern dating market is tough for young men and can be an incredibly draining experience.

Men today have to put in substantially more effort into actually landing women that are overall of much lower value than what would have been necessary for previous generations of men. The term "hoeflation" is one that I found on the internet, again the idea of putting in more effort for something that is of lower value. Look at the boomer generation, being an average looking man with a job was enough to find a woman that he could marry and have children with. Older generations of men didn't need to read articles on pick up game, attend dating bootcamps, etc., they got results simply for showing up lol.

Meanwhile, a man could actually be really solid and on point and legitimately struggle to find a woman. Something else that is an issue is that landing a woman that is actually single and childless is also becoming a problem for even white men in America, as single motherhood rates are increasing tremendously. There is nothing wrong with single mothers, it's just that a young man should not be comfortable with the idea of raising another man's child.

In addition to this, the overall dating market today is insanely competitive. People talk about dating apps and all that, but the reality is that most men would be lucky to get a dozen real matches on those platforms, let alone actual dates. Approaching women in real life is much better, but the problem is that woman is going to speaking with multiple other men at that given time period that she met on social media, dating apps, etc. Women in a month could potentially be speaking with more men than a woman in the past, where such technologies did not exist, would have spoken with in her entire lifetime. This overabundance makes women far more selective but also a bit flakey and far too readily eager to next men that she should be seriously considering as potential mate choices.

The end result of these variables makes men frustrated, as they are putting in a lot of time and energy for potentially very little, or worse nothing at all. Given enough of these experiences, a more normal man would slowly start to distance himself from this for the sake of his own mental health. Next thing you know, it's been 6 months since he's had a date, then a year, 2 years, etc.

 

[corrector]

@BergischerLöwe

I haven't readthrough this entire thread, so I'm not sure if this has been mentioned already or not.

The modern dating market is tough for young men and can be an incredibly draining experience.

Men today have to put in substantially more effort into actually landing women that are overall of much lower value than what would have been necessary for previous generations of men. The term "hoeflation" is one that I found on the internet, again the idea of putting in more effort for something that is of lower value. Look at the boomer generation, being an average looking man with a job was enough to find a woman that he could marry and have children with. Older generations of men didn't need to read articles on pick up game, attend dating bootcamps, etc., they got results simply for showing up lol.

Meanwhile, a man could actually be really solid and on point and legitimately struggle to find a woman. Something else that is an issue is that landing a woman that is actually single and childless is also becoming a problem for even white men in America, as single motherhood rates are increasing tremendously. There is nothing wrong with single mothers, it's just that a young man should not be comfortable with the idea of raising another man's child.

In addition to this, the overall dating market today is insanely competitive. People talk about dating apps and all that, but the reality is that most men would be lucky to get a dozen real matches on those platforms, let alone actual dates. Approaching women in real life is much better, but the problem is that woman is going to speaking with multiple other men at that given time period that she met on social media, dating apps, etc. Women in a month could potentially be speaking with more men than a woman in the past, where such technologies did not exist, would have spoken with in her entire lifetime. This overabundance makes women far more selective but also a bit flakey and far too readily eager to next men that she should be seriously considering as potential mate choices.

The end result of these variables makes men frustrated, as they are putting in a lot of time and energy for potentially very little, or worse nothing at all. Given enough of these experiences, a more normal man would slowly start to distance himself from this for the sake of his own mental health. Next thing you know, it's been 6 months since he's had a date, then a year, 2 years, etc.

He is able to get mid tier women and is not an incel.

 

[Borknagar]

I know the feeling. Back in the day I was all about going out to meet them, but then being in a nearly 10 year ltr, and seeing how they have managed to become worse makes me question whether I even care anymore. Hell, honestly haven't had sex in forever which also kinda makes me not want to bother. After so long the need for it kinda dwindles. Also have to consider I'm looking in a older dating pool than back then and most of them have custody of kids, so zero time. I may not even kiss a women again let alone anything else.

 

[MtmVaott]

The only way you are going to get the experiences you want, and improve your self-confidence, is by doing.
You cannot think yourself out of this problem, and trying to do so becomes counter-productive at some point, like it has for you.

If it remains "huge" and "complex", that can lead to being overwhelmed and not taking action.

I'm in a similar position as both of you @Canadian_Man and @BergischerLöwe and this is the way to go.
I also suggest to write out goals and actions/project plans, because having an overview and making them explicit puts you into a position of power (over your life, basically). And then don't schedule the tasks, just have them there. The overview is handy when you want to check if something you might do aligns with your goals, or if you don't know what you want to do next (because the tasks are based on importance).

 

[BergischerLöwe]

@BergischerLöwe

I haven't readthrough this entire thread, so I'm not sure if this has been mentioned already or not.

The modern dating market is tough for young men and can be an incredibly draining experience.

Men today have to put in substantially more effort into actually landing women that are overall of much lower value than what would have been necessary for previous generations of men. The term "hoeflation" is one that I found on the internet, again the idea of putting in more effort for something that is of lower value. Look at the boomer generation, being an average looking man with a job was enough to find a woman that he could marry and have children with. Older generations of men didn't need to read articles on pick up game, attend dating bootcamps, etc., they got results simply for showing up lol.

Meanwhile, a man could actually be really solid and on point and legitimately struggle to find a woman. Something else that is an issue is that landing a woman that is actually single and childless is also becoming a problem for even white men in America, as single motherhood rates are increasing tremendously. There is nothing wrong with single mothers, it's just that a young man should not be comfortable with the idea of raising another man's child.

In addition to this, the overall dating market today is insanely competitive. People talk about dating apps and all that, but the reality is that most men would be lucky to get a dozen real matches on those platforms, let alone actual dates. Approaching women in real life is much better, but the problem is that woman is going to speaking with multiple other men at that given time period that she met on social media, dating apps, etc. Women in a month could potentially be speaking with more men than a woman in the past, where such technologies did not exist, would have spoken with in her entire lifetime. This overabundance makes women far more selective but also a bit flakey and far too readily eager to next men that she should be seriously considering as potential mate choices.

The end result of these variables makes men frustrated, as they are putting in a lot of time and energy for potentially very little, or worse nothing at all. Given enough of these experiences, a more normal man would slowly start to distance himself from this for the sake of his own mental health. Next thing you know, it's been 6 months since he's had a date, then a year, 2 years, etc.

I've felt this before, doesn't seem like there's much that can be done to work around that tho

 

[BergischerLöwe]

I'm in a similar position as both of you @Canadian_Man and @BergischerLöwe and this is the way to go.
I also suggest to write out goals and actions/project plans, because having an overview and making them explicit puts you into a position of power (over your life, basically). And then don't schedule the tasks, just have them there. The overview is handy when you want to check if something you might do aligns with your goals, or if you don't know what you want to do next (because the tasks are based on importance).

I understand that I need to be doing and not thinking, but I don't even know what I really should be doing

 

[BergischerLöwe]

I know the feeling. Back in the day I was all about going out to meet them, but then being in a nearly 10 year ltr, and seeing how they have managed to become worse makes me question whether I even care anymore. Hell, honestly haven't had sex in forever which also kinda makes me not want to bother. After so long the need for it kinda dwindles. Also have to consider I'm looking in a older dating pool than back then and most of them have custody of kids, so zero time. I may not even kiss a women again let alone anything else.

With how long I've gone without sex it's almost like I'm a virgin again. It's been so long that it would be like a huge deal if I had it again, and that's probably not good

 

[corrector]

With how long I've gone without sex it's almost like I'm a virgin again. It's been so long that it would be like a huge deal if I had it again, and that's probably not good

You just said you could hook up with a mid tier lady off Tinder but are behaving like an incel. Really sending mixed messages about yourself. Are you sure these arent really low tier women?

 

[BergischerLöwe]

You just said you could hook up with a mid tier lady off Tinder but are behaving like an incel. Really sending mixed messages about yourself. Are you sure these arent really low tier women?

No they were certified mid. I wouldn't sleep with women who were legit ugly or very significantly overweight. I don't feel very distressed about having gone without sex for such a long time, when I say big deal I'm mainly referring to the novelty of it after four years of none. Then again sex was usually somewhat of a novelty to me. The only time I regularly had any was the year I had a girlfriend. Other than that year I only ever had sex maybe a few times a year tops

 

[SW15]

the overall dating market today is insanely competitive....The modern dating market is tough for young men and can be an incredibly draining experience....Men today have to put in substantially more effort into actually landing women that are overall of much lower value than what would have been necessary for previous generations of men....Meanwhile, a man could actually be really solid and on point and legitimately struggle to find a woman.

The end result of these variables makes men frustrated, as they are putting in a lot of time and energy for potentially very little, or worse nothing at all.

I chopped up parts of your multiple paragraph essay to put this together. It's all true.

The dating market has been insanely competitive for my entire adult life. I turned 18 in the early 2000s. I've seen the market get even more competitive since the early to mid-2000s. It wasn't even starting off from a good point then.

It is important to point out that a man could be solid and struggle to find either a longer term relationship or even shorter term sex today.

The 50th percentile man today is considered dog poop by women. Rollo Tomassi says that the average woman doesn't want much to do with the average man. Even a man in the 75th percentile has a decent chance of struggling today.

It is more time consuming and more effort to get results now than it was 30 years ago.

People talk about dating apps and all that, but the reality is that most men would be lucky to get a dozen real matches on those platforms, let alone actual dates.

This is mostly true. The typical man only gets a match from less than 1% of his right swipes. If he lived in a big city and swiped right on 2,000 women, he might get some matches. In order to swipe right on 2,000 women, he might consider dropping his standards somewhat or spending more time swiping. Some cities aren't big enough to swipe right on 2,000 women.

Approaching women in real life is much better, but the problem is that woman is going to speaking with multiple other men at that given time period that she met on social media, dating apps, etc. Women in a month could potentially be speaking with more men than a woman in the past, where such technologies did not exist, would have spoken with in her entire lifetime. This overabundance makes women far more selective but also a bit flakey and far too readily eager to next men that she should be seriously considering as potential mate choices.

This is such as important point. Yes, it is better to approach women in real life. It is also possible that the woman that a man approaches in real life has a bunch of options in her Instagram DMs and on her swipe apps (if using). At the very least, real life approacher men are competing against the hordes of men sliding into her DMs.

Many average looking women today have more abundance than the top female supermodels of the pre-internet era.

The term "hoeflation" is one that I found on the internet, again the idea of putting in more effort for something that is of lower value. Look at the boomer generation, being an average looking man with a job was enough to find a woman that he could marry and have children with. Older generations of men didn't need to read articles on pick up game, attend dating bootcamps, etc., they got results simply for showing up lol.

There are plenty of 60-75 year old Boomer males who were ordinary men and had reasonably stable dating lives. These are men who were able to have long term marriages (40+ years in certain cases) with children or get divorced and re-married a 2nd or even 3rd time. Either way, these 60-75 year old Boomer males weren't lacking partners. These 60-75 year old Boomer men were not invisible in the sexual marketplace when they were actively seeking partners. They kept someone around despite being ordinary. These relationships might not be higher quality relationships, but at least they are completely invisible.

The Millennial/early Gen Z sons (typically 25-40 years old right now) of these 60-75 year old Boomer males are often invisible men who are incel/borderline incel despite being ordinary looking and having at least adequate social skills. There are plenty of Boomer males out there that would have been incels/borderline incels had they been born during the Millennial generation or early Gen Z.

Something else that is an issue is that landing a woman that is actually single and childless is also becoming a problem for even white men in America, as single motherhood rates are increasing tremendously. There is nothing wrong with single mothers, it's just that a young man should not be comfortable with the idea of raising another man's child.

Childless men should not raise another man's children. If a childless man wants a committed relationship, he needs to have standards and only select a childless woman. There are childless men today who commit to single moms due to their scarcity mentality.

 

[sangheilios]

I've felt this before, doesn't seem like there's much that can be done to work around that tho

That's because there isn't. It's just important to be aware of these facts for the sake of your well being and mental health.

 

[Manure Spherian]

as single motherhood rates are increasing tremendously

I wonder how many men on here had single mothers or lived in matriarchal households.

I did.

Anyone else?

 

[corrector]

There are childless men today who commit to single moms due to their scarcity mentality.

Due to scarcity. Do people have a hunger mentality if they are hungry? Seriously. You have to drop some of those words. You just describe the dating market as doomed. Well not everyone wants to be incel and even single moms are rejecting childless dads too. You like bringing up the mavlov "sex is a necessity" so you cant fault someone comitting to a single mom to get sex if that is his only option.

 

[forcerecon01]

Due to scarcity. Do people have a hunger mentality if they are hungry? Seriously. You have to drop some of those words.

Due to scarcity. Do people have a hunger mentality if they are hungry? Seriously. You have to drop some of those words. You just describe the dating market as doomed. Well not everyone wants to be incel and even single moms are rejecting childless dads too. You like bringing up the mavlov "sex is a necessity" so you cant fault someone comitting to a single mom to get sex if that is his only option.

True........ I believe it's hoeflation that sucks in today's market.

 

[BergischerLöwe]

That's because there isn't. It's just important to be aware of these facts for the sake of your well being and mental health.

Well then what should I do moving forward? I'm sick of apps and can't meet women naturally in real life either. So what option is left for me?