No, no is it really not ok to react to not ignore a girl..

[Accension]

Half these theories don't work for ****. Just a few.

We shouldn't call her until 1/2/3/x days: why would I not call the girl I'm trying to sleep with/date/what ever.
Not to get attached to her: why not, what's the point of getting this success if you keep trying to ignore the fact that losing it would hurt.
That we shouldn't be mad if she has heaps of guy friends: you're telling me that you're still trying to find a way to ignore it's actually not cool and so you don't get hurt.

And yes, I'm well aware that these 3 points don't do an accurate job of conveying all that is DJ, but ****, you get the idea.

The PUA World has you Bamboozled.
Pretty much every theory is just geared to stop you getting what you want by ignoring the fact we want it. You can't tell me honestly, right now, that you wouldn't prefer she didn't go out to that club with her friends in that dress - that she didn't keep in contact with the X.

What will all the 'PUAs' tell me: You are insecure and what bull****.

I think we've taken this entire community in the wrong direction.
A PUA is just someone that's learned to hide their chode identity by being hugely apathetic through sheer impersonal numbers Spin more plates, that way it won't hurt when she rejects you.


Are you insecure because you can't admit you're insecure in the first place?

 

[OMGWTFLMAO]

Many of those "rules" are designed with a certain type of guy in mind. It is to help a guy to avoid coming across as desperate, needy and pushy, which ultimately makes them look a bit like a stalker and creepy to women. If a guy continues to do those kinds of things you point out AFTER they get involved with a woman that they want to hold onto, doing those types of things WILL sabotage the relationship. There doesn't seem to be any guidance or "rules" about how to keep and maintain a relationship on this site. I think that could be because the loudest people who post here are just not good at holding onto the women they initially attract and their advice on relationships just is not good. You don't have to be an ass to women to do well with them. You just have to value and love yourself more than you value and love them. If you do that you won't be prone to putting up with mistreatment. It's true that whoever "cares the least" has all of the power in the relationship. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't or can't care at all. If a guy doesn't respect himself then women will not respect him. There are adult ways to deal with people and then there are immature ways. I see quite a bit of immature ways being suggested. I'm not sure why that is because some of the people here have been here a very long time based on the join dates on their posts. The counselor in me is quite fascinated by it, but it also concerns me to see so many people who clearly need to address some emotional issues in therapy of some sort.

 

[bish0p]

Very good post, OP...+1 rep. Hopefully this thread gets some attention.

 

[Sir Psycho Sexy]

Sosuave is not a PUA website. Im surprised you didnt realize that.

Those three "theories" as you referred to are guidelines. Guidelines not made for guys who know how to get and keep women but for guys who struggle and are just beginning their journey in the world of dating.

PUA is all about tricks and sets and opening and closing and while we do talk about that here at sosuave, its not our main focus.

If you have ever spend some time in the DJ bible you would notice that their is a big focus on attitude and attraction.

I have never "cold read" a 3 set with a wingman opening at a mall but my skills are 10 fold since arriving at sosuave because it completely changed my attitude as a man. Thats the direction this community has and always will point toward. Making yourself a better person.

There are PUA websites you can go to preach that stuff though man.

 

[Tazman]

Your lack of understanding these theories is the issue. You also have to know "when" to incorporate these things and in what "context".

There is no step-by-step guide here that will teach you how to behave in all situations, this site can point you in the right direction, but you have to go out there and learn through direct experience.

If you thought this site was going to give you more than just a cursory understanding, your expectations are too high.

 

[bukowski_merit]

We shouldn't call her until 1/2/3/x days: why would I not call the girl I'm trying to sleep with/date/what ever.

I think this is a really old rule that doesn't get preached that much anymore. I'd say a more accurate rule that is preached is to not talk to her TOO MUCH on the phone.... which is true.

Not to get attached to her: why not, what's the point of getting this success if you keep trying to ignore the fact that losing it would hurt.

??? I don't know that i've ever seen this preached in such a blanket way... Who is "her"??? A low quality woman who craves attention from many men? Then yes, DO NOT get attached.

As far as attachment (in general) goes - it's ok to fall in love and get attached. Just NEVER become more attached to her than she is to you. And never get attached to a woman who doesn't deserve it (and most women guys on here fall for - don't deserve it).

You also should not get TOO attached. Why??? It makes it hard to walk away.

That we shouldn't be mad if she has heaps of guy friends: you're telling me that you're still trying to find a way to ignore it's actually not cool and so you don't get hurt.

No, you shouldn't get mad. Why? Because you shouldn't be with an attention hor anyway! If you get involved with a woman like this on a more than sex level - than it's your own fault when your heart is breaking PERIOD. For LTRs - i screen out 2 types of women: 1) Party Girls who have to go out all the time. 2) Girls with more than a guy friend or two. < those two types of women will crash and burn most men who try to be with them!

Pretty much every theory is just geared to stop you getting what you want by ignoring the fact we want it.

They're geared towards stopping you from coming off a needy, insecure, desperate, awkward, nice, overbearing, jealous, or anything else that you don't want a woman to think about you.

You can't tell me honestly, right now, that you wouldn't prefer she didn't go out to that club with her friends in that dress - that she didn't keep in contact with the X.

It doesn't matter what you or I prefer - telling a woman not to go out to a club in a certain outfit - is a HORRIBLE idea. Who cares if SS considers it insecure - more importantly, THE WOMAN will consider it insecure.... And most of the time the woman WILL NOT change, which then leaves the man in a position where he has to accept it or leave her (99.9% of the time it's any option except leaving her.) Once she doesn't listen to you and you stay with her - you should just start digging your relationship grave that night!

There's very very few men with control enough over their woman that they can just say, "don't wear that, put something else on" and the woman will listen. There are manipulative ways you can get a woman to change what they're wearing though (which normally involves insulting her).

A PUA is just someone that's learned to hide their chode identity by being hugely apathetic through sheer impersonal numbers Spin more plates, that way it won't hurt when she rejects you.

Most guys on here have one-itis (and some of them have never even kissed the girl.) They come on here and talk about how bad she's treating them, all the things she's doing wrong to him, how he disapproves of her actions, etc....... The only answer to that is to SPIN OTHER/MORE PLATES.... That's why it's said all the time on here! Too many guys are with toxic women who are inside that guys head! If "she" controls your interactions and the frame of the relationship - then you need to get the fvck out of it! Start a new relationship and build a better girlfriend this time!

Of course it's going to hurt when we separate from someone we're "attached" to! Biologically - the chemicals inside our bodies make sure that it hurts.

---

 

[Ease]

Bad post. If you dont understand it, then ask for it to be explained. Dont spread your lack of knowledge and try to proclaim it is wrong, just because you think you know better.

Dont get attached. Dont show reactions. These are basics to LTR.

 

[horaholic]

Bukowski hit the nail on the head.

 

[Dante420]

Many of those "rules" are designed with a certain type of guy in mind. It is to help a guy to avoid coming across as desperate, needy and pushy, which ultimately makes them look a bit like a stalker and creepy to women. If a guy continues to do those kinds of things you point out AFTER they get involved with a woman that they want to hold onto, doing those types of things WILL sabotage the relationship. There doesn't seem to be any guidance or "rules" about how to keep and maintain a relationship on this site. I think that could be because the loudest people who post here are just not good at holding onto the women they initially attract and their advice on relationships just is not good. You don't have to be an ass to women to do well with them. You just have to value and love yourself more than you value and love them. If you do that you won't be prone to putting up with mistreatment. It's true that whoever "cares the least" has all of the power in the relationship. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't or can't care at all. If a guy doesn't respect himself then women will not respect him. There are adult ways to deal with people and then there are immature ways. I see quite a bit of immature ways being suggested. I'm not sure why that is because some of the people here have been here a very long time based on the join dates on their posts. The counselor in me is quite fascinated by it, but it also concerns me to see so many people who clearly need to address some emotional issues in therapy of some sort.

bang!

 

[Accension]

It's not that I don't understand it; it's that these theories make me feel fake.
Do I really have to make such an effort to appear a certain way?

Basically, after understanding the game to such an extent, these theories aren't helping me anymore - I mean, they were good training wheels, but now I want full use of the bike even if I could fall over and get messed up.

When I talk to a girl, I feel like I'm actually fucking up doing something wrong because I like her.
This is what it's come down to: me feeling bad to even like a girl because I should be 'non-needy' and have her 'pursuing me'.

I feel like if I don't follow all our rules and do a single thing wrong she won't like me.
This whole DJ illusion isn't a big part of how reality works.

In reality I think:

• Women expect to be hit on by a lot of guys. They are the receivers. It's unnatural to expect them to make the moves on us. You waste your time because it doesn't work like that.
  • You guys base half your theories around getting her to chase you. This is a waste of time because instead of trying to appear 'high value' or any other insecure BS, you could be fucking her.
• Women want you to pursue them, but if you aren't aggressive with it she'll flake on you for someone that is straight up with not playing her "You have to earn my attention because I know so many males." game
  • You guys try not to care about pursuing her by making less of an effort than the other guys. This doesn't work because in her reality, guys make the effort because they want her, so instead of her chasing you, she'll just think "Hmm, he mustn't want me. Good thing I have plenty of guys that do.

This therefore means that every single theory we have is worthless because everyone has approached this the wrong way.

"Dont get attached. Dont show reactions. These are basics to LTR."
Because you'd rather ignore the truth: our only power is validating her or not validating her.

I'm here to challenge Sosuave's belief system because I don't think this has occurred in a very long time.
I'm trying to say stop all this BS and accept our position.

 

[bukowski_merit]

When I talk to a girl, I feel like I'm actually fucking up doing something wrong because I like her.

There's nothing wrong with liking a woman. It's natural. As long as you're having a good time with her - what's the problem? I like A LOT of women in my life; i like enough women that if i tried to get involved with all of them at once - I'd go insane.

As long as the woman you like is of good quality - then there's no problem. You can fall for her if you want... You can let yourself do that... I don't know who you're referring to who's saying not to like women; that they should like you first - but i've never seen that.

This is what it's come down to: me feeling bad to even like a girl because I should be 'non-needy' and have her 'pursuing me'.

I pursue every woman i fvck, and it works d@mn easy... Again, there's nothing wrong with that; just don't come off as desperate or anxious; keep control like you've been there before.

And you SHOULD BE NON-NEEDY. You don't have to be needy to pursue a woman.

I'm very sexual with women. Use a lot of innuendos, and a lot of sexual puns, i use a lot of touching.... Tell them women just use me for sex (which is true in some cases lol).... I let me personality and sexuality ram my metaphorical penis in her before we even hit the sheets. I pursue like crazy! But it never comes off as needy... In fact, if the woman get's too princess acting - i'll quickly shut it down and turn into a boring person from then on on purpose =).

I feel like if I don't follow all our rules and do a single thing wrong she won't like me.

I follow very few of the DJ "rules". I do understand the principals though, and i agree with them, so i form my own rules around the principals.

Women expect to be hit on by a lot of guys. They are the receivers. It's unnatural to expect them to make the moves on us. You waste your time because it doesn't work like that.

I have no clue what you're talking about. Where has any respectable poster ever written that women are supposed to make the move on us???? If you're waiting around for a woman to make a move - you're going to be waiting a long time unless she's a straight up s!ut.

I will say that once i've fvcked a woman a few times - i normally do begin to expect them to make the move for sex. But i don't believe that that's what you're talking about.

You guys base half your theories around getting her to chase you. This is a waste of time because instead of trying to appear 'high value' or any other insecure BS, you could be fucking her.[/LIST]

You claim to understand but you keep saying all this stuff that isn't preached on here. I don't expect a woman to chase me unless i've played some hardcore unethical head games with her (and that does happen sometimes lol) or she's REALLY into me and pursued me from the beginning.

I do expect her to keep her word and not flake. I do expect her to not carry too heavy of an anti-s!ut shield. I do expect her to not be crazy. I have plenty of expectations like that... but i don't expect her to pursue me. And anyone who expects women to pursue him - better be a 9+/10 and/or have a lot of money/status.

Women want you to pursue them, but if you aren't aggressive with it she'll flake on you for someone that is straight up with not playing her "You have to earn my attention because I know so many males." game

I don't really understand. You're going back to this "girl" who has a lot of male "friends" again. I'm beginning to believe this girl isn't a theoretical person, but someone you actually "like" and you're getting aggravated over her and what you know from here?

Either way, if you pursue a woman who has many men to chose from in an aggressive way - you better have amazing game. If you do - then go for it. If you don't - you'll get relegated to the bleachers where you can be a fan instead of for the team.

Believe it or not - not all women have a team of orbitors/male friends to compete with. A LOT of very beautiful women don't. You don't have to deal with women who have tons of other options. That's your choice.

If a woman is like that with me - i'll still pursue, but not in a major way, but i WILL NOT consider her for LTRs.

You guys try not to care about pursuing her by making less of an effort than the other guys. This doesn't work because in her reality, guys make the effort because they want her, so instead of her chasing you, she'll just think "Hmm, he mustn't want me. Good thing I have plenty of guys that do.[/LIST][/LIST]This therefore means that every single theory we have is worthless because everyone has approached this the wrong way.

You're not doing a very good job in thinking like a woman here. On a social state - the woman could very well think to herself "he must not like me" if a guy backs off once he notices certain things about her (such as her having too many males in her life or her flaking on him). On an instinctual level though, her subconscious will be attracted to him because he is not throwing himself at her. He is not going to be walked all over. A womans conflict is with her social side (learned) and her instinctual side (unlearned). Her learned side will think "awww that's so cute, this guy is really nice" when a guy does something nice for her while on a 1st date. But her instinctual side will say "this guy is weak, desperate, he's being nice to me without even knowing me. I haven't deserved this yet." .... Guess which side controls her horniness for you???

I ask women all the time "why are you attracted to me? im not great looking, i don't have money, etc." And they never have an answer (seriously). But, if i could talk to their subconscious, i guarantee - it would have MANY answers. But i don't need to do that, i often know exactly why the women like me and exactly when they started to. And i promise you it's NEVER because i pursue them. That has no positive effect at all on if a woman wants to fvck you!

"Dont get attached. Dont show reactions. These are basics to LTR."

Again... It's not don't get attached. It's don't get attached to a low quality woman! Fvck her! But never fall in love unless she's a good girl/high quality. And if you don't notice she's low quality until after you've fallen in love - then you have to do whatever you can to move on.

And yes, you should not give reactions to women's sh!t tests (there's plenty of things you can react too; you don't have to be a robot). Because that will only encourage them and put you in a bad frame of mind. But you're human; im human; we're all human - NO ONE can say that they never get wrapped up in a woman's drama. It happens. Don't beat yourself up over it; just do better next time.

Because you'd rather ignore the truth: our only power is validating her or not validating her.

If you want to make it that simple - which one of those 2 things do you believe is more powerful when it comes to getting her horny? Validating her, giving her compliments, buying her things, not remaining a mystery, being just like all the other guys for the most part. OR not validating her and instead just having fun with her without the need for her approval; without her knowing what adventure lay sleeping ahead?

 

[Miles28]

Ascension,

So what are you suggesting then as the alternative? Just act in accordance with how you feel? That's suicide with any girl, especially if you're a beginner and your instincts are to smother her with attention, kiss her a**, compliment her constantly, always be available, etc.

As for your example of a woman having a load of guys chasing her and then getting treated differently by one guy (who doesn't kiss up to her, doesn't pander to her every need) but thinking 'oh it's ok I have plenty of other guys'. Absolute bull****, she won't be thinking that, she'll be thinking 'why doesn't he like me? doesn't he find me attractive?' (this of course assumes she has some initial interest to begin with). It's just basic human psychology, it's not even unique to women.

You don't know what in the hell you're talking about. Answer a question honestly, do you have a lot of success with women? I'm guessing you don't. I don't mean it as a personal insult, honestly, I just can't believe you get anywhere based on what you have posted.

Miles

 

[CarlitosWay]

Wow...nice way of trying to bundle stuff into a neat package and mislabel ****...I feel there's nothing absolutely set in stone. Everyone is different and we all are constantly learning what works for your individual style of doing things.

How hard is it to understand? Always respect yourself first and foremost, always looking to improve as a PERSON and only going after women who are obviously attracted to you. Don't take bull**** and acknowledge the whole world/your life does not revolve around women.

Seriously is it that hard? This is not a PUA site, it's more of a community to aid guys in getting down to the very essence of what entails being a MAN who doesn't bow to mediocrity in life's pursuits.

 

[Accension]

Ascension,

So what are you suggesting then as the alternative? Just act in accordance with how you feel? That's suicide with any girl, especially if you're a beginner and your instincts are to smother her with attention, kiss her a**, compliment her constantly, always be available, etc.

As for your example of a woman having a load of guys chasing her and then getting treated differently by one guy (who doesn't kiss up to her, doesn't pander to her every need) but thinking 'oh it's ok I have plenty of other guys'. Absolute bull****, she won't be thinking that, she'll be thinking 'why doesn't he like me? doesn't he find me attractive?' (this of course assumes she has some initial interest to begin with). It's just basic human psychology, it's not even unique to women.

You don't know what in the hell you're talking about. Answer a question honestly, do you have a lot of success with women? I'm guessing you don't. I don't mean it as a personal insult, honestly, I just can't believe you get anywhere based on what you have posted.

Miles

You wonder why I'm writing this thread?
It's because I basically wasted a good year of my life following these stupid, fucking rules when I could have just been pursuing her like a normal guy and not worrying about appearing too available, needy, desperate or what ever you want to call it.

I wasted a year following these stupid dam theories when all I had to do was basically tell her I like her, tell her if she becomes a ***** she's out of my life and then flirt followed by elementary sex.

How come no one writes about this?
How come everyone has to write over elaborate threads (I was guilty) when really all we have to do is be up front and not let her affect us?

Look at Bukowski_merit's post.
How come someone couldn't have written that and just explained how to be a cool guy in literal language?

I spent a year trying to be a 'DJ' to get women when all I had to do is validate myself.
I'm not talking about dating multiple women so you can think you're a huge pimp - I'm talking about being happy with yourself - not being Dependant on her.

This means you can do what ever the hell you want to her without worrying about stupid rules and the possible consequences of not 'doing it right'.
Jesus, this whole game thing - what a joke.

Sosuave literally ****ed me up much more than it ever helped me because it assumed we were all retarded with women.
Pretty much every word of advice here is geared towards a guy that hasn't even kissed a girl before.

All I'm saying is when you read these stupid, grand ideas (refer to Pook) that you don't take them seriously because they're nothing but ideal thinking.

It feels awesome to have a girl pursue you, but this isn't the case most of the time and Sosuave literally made me feel like I should have girls lining up when I should be lining up for girls because she wants me to pursue her and I should want to pursue her.

You guys see what I mean?
We're filling people's heads (the ones that really need it) with impractical ideas that sound good in theory, but aren't specific enough to help anyway.

It's like asking: "How do I be good with women?" and then getting the answer "Just be cool man."
However, here's my answer: Validate yourself and I can go into extensive detail until you get it.

You guys kinda see where I'm coming from now?
Just feel like I wasted a lot of time listening to insecure guys that were just trying to patch up their insecurities by pretending they aren't there - guys that needed her so much that when it went wrong, they never wanted to feel it again and so started trying to cover everyone's asses instead of just becoming cool guys.

 

[I'm in the Mood]

The OP makes me wonder, how have these so-called techniques gotten into people's heads in the first place? Who first started preaching this bullshvt?

Maybe it's just guys taking techniques like being a jerk and negging, and using them in the wrong way.

Some guys here rely too much on advice, rather than THEIR OWN GAME!

Take the calling thing for example: some people suggest the rule is call 1-3 days after getting the phone number, others say 2-4 days, some people might say wait a week!

These are JUST NUMBERS!!!

I think the REAL rule is: judge the situation yourself, based on your level of comfort with the girl you're pursuing. Hers as well.

If you know her well you can certainly call the next day. If you just met her and only talked about 20 minutes, call her the next day while her interest is still there, giving her just a little bit of time to THINK about you!

Maybe you should call whenever you feel like it, or when you aren't busy, if you're normally a busy person. Maybe you should call the next day EVERY time. Your personal rule might be wait two days. Three days.

The PURPOSE of not blowing up a girls phone doesn't take a guy who can nail molecular biology to figure out.

The purpose of the "Call Rule" is to:
1. Continue your interaction into comfort with a woman.
2. Give her time to THINK about you. This is VERY important!
3. Maintain your lack of desperation, neediness and insecurity by learning to be PATIENT.

THAT'S IT!

It's really that simple. Things like limiting your availability to DHV are only side effects of waiting a day or two to call a woman. It's really not worth it to PURPOSELY wait and/or ignore a woman, unless you just don't feel like it!

Another side effect is that she might think you have an active life because you seem to be busy. Have an active life FOR REAL, don't wait to create an illusion. If you wait for that reason, that's like preferring getting a girl to getting a life.

If you don't have a girl or a life and you want the girl first, get your damn priorities straight!
You won't be able to keep a girl without a life.

Ascension:
I'm pretty sure that the "PUA world" doesn't teach crap like that. I think it's mostly people's misinterpretations of what the men who are successful with women do. In other words, don't blame the teachers for what the students say or do. We can both however agree that lots of stuff being taught can be crap!

A couple more points:

-"Don't get attached to her" should be "Don't get too serious with the relationship too quickly or too soon. Oh, and don't be clingy with a woman-she's not your mother, and even if she is, you're not a little boy anymore."

-"Don't get mad at her for having heaps of guy friends" should be...Okay hold up...you're mad at her for having FRIENDS?

 

[Warrior74]

When I talk to a girl, I feel like I'm actually fucking up doing something wrong because I like her.
This is what it's come down to: me feeling bad to even like a girl because I should be 'non-needy' and have her 'pursuing me'.

The first thing that came to mind when I read this was this....I have a daughter. She is the apple of my eye, I love her to death. But when she does something that I know is wrong. I have to correct it. Then, on the spot. Now when she gets in trouble, she cries or tries to blame other people or all the little things kids do to try to get out of trouble, but I have to call it out, hand out punishment and ignore those tears. I don't get emotional or out of control, nor do I ignore or cosign her behavior. Afterward we can go back to having fun.

You can like a girl. But when she crosses the line with you and your self respect you have to be willing and able to 1. notice it. 2. respond accordingly.


As for being needy...imagine hanging out with your family or cousins...do you feel "needy" with them? Or do you just enjoy their company? Do you feel like you are pursing there attention or they are persuing yours or is it just natural mutual respect and affection?

What I'm saying is the way guys here approach the game is sometimes overtraining. The rules are sound, but the application needs a way lighter touch than it seems from the stuff on here. Being non-needy or getting a girl to persue is such a sutble thing that most guys here over do it. It's like a neg...most guys here over do it and make it an insult. The light touch is the way forward. The ability to chill with a woman with neither disinterest or great need, just enjoying the moment and making adjustments where necessary is the way forward.

 

[Miles28]

I think this site is valuable in other ways. The whole concept of 'spinning plates' wouldn't even occur to the average AFC. You look around and societal influence from media, to parental or religious doctrine to peer pressure is saying that people should be dating one person at one time.

If that's what you want to do then fine, but it's not the only option open. And for me I've been much happier since realising I can date x number of women at the same time than I was before when, subconsiously, my way of thinking was that if a girl slept with me then I pretty much owed it to her to be her boyfriend.

Ascension, how specifically did this site hurt you? Was there one particular girl you think you would have got were it not for trying to do things the DJ way? Obviously if you can just be a 'cool guy' then great, but that's pretty non-specific and doesn't really mean anything.

 

[Bladerunner]

All I'm saying is when you read these stupid, grand ideas (refer to Pook) that you don't take them seriously because they're nothing but ideal thinking.

The Fifteen Lessons
By Pook

Rejection is better than regret
Friendship – abandon all hope all who enter
Judge by actions, not by words
Patience is the refined sense of confidence
Trust the gut
You are the Great Catch
Respect is All
Only the Sexual Ones get the girls
Be not contained by formula
As you think, you shall become
Getting a girl is not the success
Unite Dream and Day
Charm is treating women like little girls
Always have a back-up woman
The greatest risk you can take in life is not to risk it all
Opportunities are brilliantly disguised as impossible situations

Looks like you forgot those two.

 

[CarlitosWay]

Looks like you forgot those two.

I could compare all this to weight training and getting stronger/bigger. Some of us will get there faster others will have to work harder.

One guy might take 1 year to reach his goal another might take 3-5 years and another even more....but progression some way some how is always key.

 

[Forty0ztoFreedom]

As for being needy...imagine hanging out with your family or cousins...do you feel "needy" with them? Or do you just enjoy their company? Do you feel like you are pursing there attention or they are persuing yours or is it just natural mutual respect and affection?

But what he's saying is you ALSO, in turn, wouldn't worry about coming ACROSS as needy to your family/cousins. You wouldn't worry about giving a compliment, or calling too soon, or telling them whatever.

I understand where he's coming from, because I've felt the same frustration, especially when you see guys in the real world breaking through these rules and still getting the girl - Hell, I know a good friend who was approached and ASKED OUT. Wha?? That goes against everything. I'm not saying it will all end well, and there is a monster red flag without even knowing the girl - but still, its not so black and white.

That said, Ascension, like I tend to do, is taking the wrong advice. Its hard to weed through it all. Stuff like no-contact/ignoring her/letting her game you, is EASY, and its why we gravitate towards it. Not like calling her RIGHT NOW for a date on Friday, getting an answer, and just going for it.

Ascension, you're probably on the right track. You're just putting the blame in the wrong place.