New to forum, need some advice with new girlfriend!

[RickR13]

Hi, I'm new to this site/forum and first off want to say good work. A lot of valuable information and good advice here. I'm shocked to find so much useful and insightful information on a subject most men can relate with.

Here's my story. I'm 45 divorced with a 6 year old daughter. Met a woman about 3 mo ago. In fact she approached me which doesn't happen too often. We exchanged numbers and have been in touch quite a bit. First date went very well. 2nd date was a wine tasting at her neighbors house. We hit it off both times, kissed on the first date. Made out on the 2nd and stayed the night at her place. 3rd date was a party at her house, stayed up with her and friends unti 4a, ended up having secks.

We were hitting it off great, spent another weekend with her at her place, more sex. Met her parents over Christmas, had secks at my place. That part was great, no issues, great chemistry. Then things changed.

I have to explain a couple of things first. About 2 weeks before we met her 6 yo daughter who had epilepsy passers away on her watch. She is divorced as well. Also has a son. Obviously this is an aspect of our relationship and will continue if we stay together. She handles it well, but it has to be a deep emotional issue with her which will affect our relationship.

Things changed between us somewhat abruptly on New Years day. Partly because we exchanged Christmas gifts that morning and I bought her a nice silver bracelet from Tiffany. It was only $185 but it obviously made a statement. I now realize this was probably not the best choice on my part, but she kept it and wore it the other day.

That brought on the "talk" last week where she said she wanted to slow things down and asked me to be patient with her. She has shown some moodiness and a little distant lately. Thad night I also learned about how her ex husband abused her, and also how she had recently split from her last boyfriend if 2 years right around the same time of her daughters death. Obviously there's a lot going on here with her mentally and emotionally.

Since then no secks, I only see her maybe once a week. We have fun and kiss, but no making out. I'm trying to figure out how I need to approach this. I think partly this is happening because we hit it off so well in the beginning and I fell into the trap of texting a lot, the bracelet, bought her flowers. Thinking maybe this was too much too soon for her? I think this could be salvageable. I have been trying to lay off the texts. A lot of second guessing here if maybe she's lost interest. Any thoughts on how I should approach this? I'm a little hesitant to ask her on a date this week. Seems like it shouldn't be an issue, but don't want to come off as being needy.

Thanks for reading/listening.

 

[TheJazz]

Don't freak out. She says she needs space, give it to her. Go do other things. Calmly tell her you understand and give her her space. Go improve yourself in the mean time. Give her the gift of missing you and let her initiate contact with you whenever she's ready, until such time, you've been becoming more and more of a desirable man that any woman would consider herself lucky to have.

It's important here to not get emotional and freak out. Women look to men for stability, women look to men to be the "rock." If you freak out/worry like you're doing now, and if she knows it, it'll display weakness/instability/clinginess/neediness and make you look unattractive and chumpy. Live your life, brother. The women will follow.

 

[BeDJ]

Buying her flowers and jewelry after 3 months was way too much. Good thing you realize it, you need to reset the relationship right now. No more gifts, no more texts, and Read This.

I completely agree with Jazz, but I will be negligent to say she isn't preparing her exit strategy and branch swing. Watch your six.
http://rationalmale.wordpress.com/2012/05/21/relational-equity/

 

[Harry Wilmington]

Hi, welcome to the forum!

So yeah... there were a lot of things done wrong at the start of this relationship that are now hampering your progress with her. For starters, I don't know at what pace you had your first three dates - ideally, they should have been 1 date per week - but I'm guessing they came faster than that. If so, no bueno: when you're first getting to know a woman, you should spread the dates out, and avoid calling/texting her between dates (except to set up the next one, of course).

Anyway... the second mistake was meeting her friends too soon. You've only gone out on 2 dates and you're already meeting her friends on the 3rd one? No bueno - it's too early on, meaning the chances of them being able to influence her decision to go out with you are magnified once they meet you. No letting friends into your guys' business until you're an established couple and you've already set the hook in her.

The third mistake was giving too much of your time to her too soon. Multiple weekends with her at her place? No bueno - you don't want a woman thinking she's caught you too soon. This is why it's actually better to NOT see a woman on weekend when you first start dating her. Weekends are for girlfriends - for someone you're just dating, they need to be pondering WHY you're not asking them out on weekends. Her not being completely sure where she stands with you will make her work harder to keep you around.

The fourth mistake was not finding out about her baggage early on. She has a kid that just died AND she's recently divorced? No bueno - it just reeks of "damaged goods." Well, more like "emotional trauma" - either way, it doesn't bode well for the relationship.

The fifth mistake was buying her something uber-expensive within the first 3 months of dating. A $185 piece of jewelery? No bueno - she hasn't done anything to earn it yet other than hang out with you and have sex. What else has she brought to the table? Nothing worth $185, that's for sure!

The sixth mistake was meeting her parents. That's something you do once you've been going out as bf/gf for at least 6 months and are thinking about possibly marrying her - before that, there's really no point in the parents being in the picture. They are even MORE of an influence than her friends are, so you definitely don't want them around when you're (a) only 3 months in, and (b) when you're not even bf/gf yet.

Anyway... so, anytime a woman has the "we should slow down" talk, it's usually her passive-aggressive way of saying "you're OUT." She says it to let you down gently, but also in the hopes that you will hear what she's saying, get it, and go off into the night without making it a big thing. Sure, she's still hanging around you, but her heart is not in it - as is evident by (a) her moodiness, (b) distance, and (c) her taking away of sex.

Also, her stories of husband abuse and a dead kid - sad as they are - are really just smoke screens for her lowered interest in you. Proof? None of these things were affecting how much sex she was having with you in the beginning, was it? So, to suddenly trod it out means she's using these things in hopes that they'll emotionally trigger something in you to be understanding when she suddenly flakes, gets moody with you, or says "not tonight, dear." Instead of questioning it, she's told you those stories so you'll simply say to yourself: "Oh wait - it's not that she's not interested in me; it's just that her ex abused her and she's still sad about the kid dying!"

In answer to your inquiry: yes, the bracelet, flowers, meeting of the parents/friends and - worst of all - excessive texting (texting, in general, KILLS relationships) - contributed to her interest in your being lowered. How should you approach this? Well, at this point I'd say it's pretty much dead in the water. However, if you insist on trying to salvage this thing, lay off contacting her for a while. When she hits you up at some point, don't immediately try to set up a date with her - trust me, she'll ponder why you're not asking her out, which may help to pique her curiosity, and thus her interest.

By the third time she contacts you, she should be suggesting that you two meet up - at which point, you can decide whether or not to accept her invitation. And, if you do, be on the lookout for indicators of interest (IOI) that show she's ready to have sex again. If they end up being false indicators and she ends up not wanting to have sex with you, dump her for good and find someone else to chase.

3 billion chicks on the planet, man - really, you can find someone else if necessary. Hope this helps!

 

[VladPatton]

Yeah, man, something is up. She is definitely using the tragedy in her life to keep her distance. Hasn't stopped her until now. Did she forget about it until all of a sudden? Bullṣhit! You went too fast, too soon, so use Harry and TheJazz's advice and give room. A lot of room! Think hard if you wanna pursue, it may be more drama than you need.

 

[twentee]

She may NEVER really get over the kid thing. Beware. It's like a rape, very, very hard to get past it.

 

[RickR13]

Deleted for double post

 

[RickR13]

So how should I handle her texts at this point? I've been getting them at least once a day. I've been keeping my responses super brief. No responses that would require additional texts. I should respond right? I've been very slow on the responses, but haven't ignored her. I guess I'm trying to feel this one out. Do a little damage control, see how it plays out. Should Ihold off on asking her out on dates for the time being?

 

[GotED?]

I agree with what other posters have said - but adding to it myself that you should practice NC (no contact) at this time.

You MUST get into her head that she must WIN your affection, not the other way around (regardless of whatever sh*t has happened to her in life, everyone has problems).

Going NC, you will send her a clear signal that you have OPTIONS. Women WANT men that other women WANT - men with options and is wanted by other women. They also want the PRIZE, but most of the time women are too insecure and confused about what they really want. The only way to assure them to come to a final conclusion is to make them feel they have LOST you because they were not good enough or made a stupid decision that was wrong.

I promise you most of the time, the woman will come crawling back to you and will be in YOUR frame, and not you in her frame.

Good luck.

With respect,

Exodus

 

[Starrie]

Her moving you to a back burner may be a combination of her baggage making storms and you seeming too invested and overly available.

You MUST get into her head that she must WIN your affection, not the other way around (regardless of whatever sh*t has happened to her in life, everyone has problems).

Going NC, you will send her a clear signal that you have OPTIONS. Women WANT men that other women WANT -

^^ This. That she still texts you is probably good. At best, she hasn't written you off completely but you are letting her down by being such willing prey. At worst, she's training a new beta pet to outgas her emotions into. The good news is that you have a chance to course-correct in either case. I've recovered several times.

OTOH, I haven't played this game with women in your age bracket. YMMV. Good luck.

 

[Trump]

The fifth mistake was buying her something uber-expensive within the first 3 months of dating. A $185 piece of jewelery? No bueno - she hasn't done anything to earn it yet other than hang out with you and have sex. What else has she brought to the table? Nothing worth $185, that's for sure!

I agree with everything Harry said except this.

If $185 is uber expensive, how much do you have to spend to get sex with a hot girl? Although this one probably gave it because she wanted him to take care her kid, $185 does not seem like enough to have sex with a hot one. I have spent alot of money previously on models without getting much in return.

Some guys here would drop $5,000 to sleep with a hot girl. It's not about the money, it's about the confidence that comes with it.

 

[Die Hard]

RickR13, I suggest you take a look at all the BPD (borderline personality disorder) threads and be wary of this woman you're currently dealing with... These are search results for BPD threads, check them out:

http://sosuave.net/forum/search.php?searchid=1755987

http://sosuave.net/forum/search.php?searchid=1755988


So how would you describe your emotional involvement with your girlfriend at the moment? How deep did she and this relationship suck you in? Please do a 'thought experiment' and imagine the following scenario:

She calls you up tonight, tells you the relationship is over and that she wants to stop seeing you completely.
You ask her why and she explains that she just feels trapped and suffocated being in a relationship. You tell her that she is overreacting and that the two of you can take things slowly if that's what she needs, and that you would have no problem with that......but she replies "No, this just isn't gonna work. I have made up my mind and want to end things completely, I'm sorry..."
You try reasoning some more but she sticks with her decision, so eventually there's nothing more to say and the two of you end the conversation.
So there you are, sitting at home with the phone still in your hand, right after hanging up...

How would you feel at that moment and what would it do to you emotionally? Please answer this question honestly, not to me or the other forum members, but to yourself!
Do you feel like this woman and the relationship with her have sucked you in too deep and it has almost become impossible for you to step away from it all? Like you went for a swim in the sea but you have drifted too far from the shore and now the current has become too strong to swim back?

 

[RickR13]

Thanks again guys. I agree that need to step back and let this unfold into a different direction. I'm not willing to let it completely go, but I also dont want to throw in the towel because there are some good things that have come out of this relationship that are hard for me to convey here, a certain bond that's undeniable. Yet I'm also trying to guard myself as to to get too attached, as I can see we've already receded unexpectedly in our relationship.

The hardest part has been realizing I fell into the trap and didn't recognize the signs early on. More because she was always texting me, very open to physical contact, sending off signals that things were going great. Then all of the sudden the abrupt slow down.

I'm going to try to reset the relationship. I doubt I can not respond to texts from her, but figure I wont requests any dates, wont initiate texts, and wont give her any information about what I'm doing. Hoping that helps, and if not I wont be as emotionally invested in as I would be if I keep pursuing.

 

[Die Hard]

I'm not willing to let it completely go, but I also dont want to throw in the towel because there are some good things that have come out of this relationship that are hard for me to convey here, a certain bond that's undeniable.

Another sign, very typical for BPD relationships. You feel a strong connection with her, on a deeper level...hard to put in words but you just feel it inside. Like a magic spell has been cast over you... And this feeling came very fast, after knowing her just a short while.

 

[RickR13]

Another sign, very typical for BPD relationships. You feel a strong connection with her, on a deeper level...hard to put in words but you just feel it inside. Like a magic spell has been cast over you... And this feeling came very fast, after knowing her just a short while.

Thanks Die Hard, I appreciate your feedback. I did a self check as you described in your first post and yes, I would feel awful, something I'd rather not go through.

I'm confused as to the BPD relationship thing. Honestly, to me she seems very stable considering. Yes, she is going through a very profound time. Losing a 4yo daughter cannot be an easy thing to deal with and its so recent, that I can only imagine there would be some emotional issues. But to say she is BPD seems a bit much. Are you implying we are both BPD, hence a BPD relationship? Or has what I told you made you wonder if she may BPD?

 

[pdx1138]

You'll know if she is BPD by a repeat of things before.

Huge interest, then a letdown.

put that on infinite loop and she is definitely BPD.

by the 3rd time she does it, it's confirmed and you'll do
best to walk away from it, if she is.

 

[Plutoman]

BPD is not so easily diagnosed. I wouldn't take your personal feelings as evidence of BPD. BPD is insidious, though.

I'm seeing signs of instability, but yes, I would write it off to existing baggage. That doesn't necessarily mean a personality disorder of any type.

You're doing it right, though. Step back, make sure she is matching your investment at all times, and surpassing it in most cases. Let her start initiating. Be a bit busier, if at all possible. Doesn't mean turn her down, or not respond, but just keep yourself busy in a form where you may take a while to respond at times, where you may not be available any night of the week.

Example: I work evening shifts, so sometimes I'll get in texts, and I'll have to wait till a break to reply, then I get off work and reply again, and then I'll respond quicker. With those evening shifts, I have 3-4 nights locked down and unavailable until 9-10pm, and one or two nights that are dedicated for good friends of mine. I don't deliberately plan to be busy, but it's part of just having a life outside of the person you are dating - it'll make you more appealing in the challenge of it.

 

[Die Hard]

RickR13, I have no reason to think that you are BPD. Also, I can't say for certain that she is BPD. But I see several signs in your story that are typical for a relationship with a BPD woman.

But it doesn't matter whether your woman fits all the neccesary symptoms to OFFICIALLY be diagnosed as a BPD. Let's say, for example, that a person must possess 10 specific symptoms to be OFFICIALLY diagnosed BPD, and suppose your woman shows only 5 out of those 10 symptoms. Then she isn't officially a BPD but you can bet your ass that those 5 symptoms are still enough to make your life hell when you get into a relationship with her.

BPD is just a label that creates two distinctions:
1. a person has BPD
2. a person doesn't have BPD

It is very simplistic to think that a man should only stay away from the first category of women but that it is perfectly safe to enter a relationship with the second category. Because the second category would also contain women who have 9 out of 10 symptoms, which doesn't make them officially belong to the first category but that doesn't mean they are much less dangerous!

So forget the label itself, you have to look at the SYMPTOMS, you have to look at her BEHAVIOR. And yes, I do see several bad signs in your story that are typical for relationships with a BPD woman.

If you will take the time to read up on the numerous threads we have here about this kind of woman and this kind of relationships, I'm sure you will quickly start to recognize those symptoms and the picture will become clear to you.

I suspect that you find the idea too far fetched at this moment and therefor are not eager to read through all those stories, coz it's gonna take time and patience to read all that stuff. But I strongly suggest you do it anyway, coz from your story, I pick up there is more going on than just her losing a child, as if that is the only reason for her troubles. There's more going on here...that's why you should read up on those threads, so you can learn to recognize all the signs and see for yourself if your woman is the same type of woman that so many of us have suffered from.

To be totally honest with you, I wouldn't even be surprised if that story about the lost child is FAKE. It is not beyond those women to make up such stories, and it is quite coincidental that the child died just two weeks before you met her. It provides her with a believable excuse for her crazy behavior, it makes you accept her crazy behavior. It's a perfect way for a crazy woman to make a good man stay with her, coz he thinks she is not REALLY crazy, but just AT THIS MOMENT because of the so called death of her child. So the man thinks she will just act crazy NOW and that she will become normal again in the future, once she has recovered from the event, and thus he stays with her and has patience with her. But she will never become normal, she has always been insane and always WILL be insane. She kows that any good man will leave her if he knows this, so she thinks of an excuse, she makes up a story that gives her a reason to be crazy and makes him think that her craziness is only FOR THE MOMENT...

So really, except for her word, do you have any other "proof" that it is true? For example, can any of her family members confirm that her child died two weeks before you met her? Beware, the best lies are lies mixed with truth. For example, she might really have lost a child, that might nog be a lie. But perhaps it was 2 YEARS before you met her instead of two WEEKS...

Use your brains, analyze all the behavior you have seen from her since you met her, analyze all the things she has said since you met her... Does everything make perfect sense? Is everything she does and says congruent? Or is there a vague notion inside of you that tells you this woman is sometimes contradicting herself in her behavior or in the things she says? Examine those things, use your memory, work it out for yourself...
Coz this is also a sign! In the beginning, men often just get a FEELING that the woman is contradicting herself in her words and behavior, but he can't confirm the feeling, he doesn't have any hard evidence, it is just a feeling. But this feeling will keep popping up repeatedly, not just one time. And this is a sign for dealing with a BPD. If you get that feeling just one time, than you have to give her the benefit of the doubt, coz you can't find hard evidence for your feeling, anyway... But when that feeling keeps popping up repeatedly over time, then it is no coincidence anymore, no matter if you can't back any of it up with hard evidence.
So if this is the case, DO NOT DOUBT YOURSELF. You might think that you are just making yourself crazy, that your mind is playing tricks on you and that your feeling is wrong. But this is not the case, your feeling is right!

 

[5string]

BPD or not, you need to bail.

Gal has more baggage than an airport carousel.

 

[RickR13]

BPD or not, you need to bail.

Gal has more baggage than an airport carousel.

Ha, you think so? There is a lot going on, so you're telling me its too much? Recap;

* Divorced 2 years ago from husband that abused her (At least that's what shes told me)

* Had been dating another dude for 2 years, beginning about 1 mo after divorce. They broke it off prior to the passing of her daughter, and she dumped him again right after. This happened just about the time her daughter passed.

* Her 4yo epileptic daughter passed away at her house, she found her in her bed the morning. This was approx 3months ago.

* She met me about 2 weeks after the break up and the death. She ultimately tracked me down when I was leaving a restaurant/bar and we exchanged numbers.

1st date with her was about 1 mo later, so really it hasn't even been 2 months since we had our first date. the first month was steady progressive texting, a lot of texting. Seemed harmless at the time.

She initiated the invites to friend, parties, meet parents, initiated texts, had little reluctance to my physical advancements. The physical/sexual part was excellent. There were no issues there. We are both definitely physically attracted to one another. My biggest regret is falling for all of the whirlwind dates, and not finding this site sooner!

She seems stable to me for the most part, until she flaked. I'm not saying it wasn't because of me because I believe it was partly because of that, although I did get the classic line its not you, its me lol. I'm not sure she is a total flake, as part of this was my mistake.