My issue with manosphere and the red pill movement.

[HowardHughesDicaprio]

It isn't a myth anymore, PUA has died down and lost a lot of its credibility that it used to have before. When one thing perishes, another is there to fill up that niche. The end goal of PUA, Manosphere, and the Red Pill movement seems to be to create personal growth in men who didn't have a chance to truly get in touch with their masculinity. It is to turn the former "AFC" or nerd into a guy that gets laid. While the intentions are good, I do think both the Manosphere and Red Pill actually do more harm than good in the long run. Lets talk about some of the reasons.

The writers themselves have had little success: I read Matt Forney's blog and you will not be able to convince me that someone like Danny504 (bald guy with glasses and beer gut) gets laid. The more I see these Manosphere or "red pill" writers get exposed or outed all I have to see is a pic of them. Looks aren't everything but they do matter a lot, young women in America simply have far too many options themselves to actually go for someone that doesn't have somewhat decent looks. The writer for Danger & Play and Good Looking Loser are probably the two guys I can look at and see that they get laid. The problem is that Good Looking Loser's mentality is barely Red Pill at all, he focuses more on improving outward appearance and just going all caveman when it comes to getting laid.

There is too much anger in the community which makes me think these guys are looking for attention and sympathy rather than focusing on self-improvement: I have been there and done that. When I was improving myself it was a fun process, I didn't take time to be angry. I have been angry and bitter when I was regressing and had nothing going for me in life. What I have found is that majority of the guys in such communities are just focused on gaining sympathy and attention rather than actually improving their lives. What's worse is by reading some of their blogs and writings you become an angry and bitter person that complains about how terrible women are rather than focusing on yourself and improving your life. I find that you are better off being a Blue Pill AFC rather than being an angry Red Pill reader that doesn't get laid.

It's more politics and less self-improvement: I don't keep up with politics TBH because it is a waste of time. I don't debate politics or any of that because I don't encounter feminazis on a daily basis that want to stop me from getting laid. It seems like to me that these guys have already made up their enemies in their heads and want others to join in on their fictional war. It's really all politics and not about going out there and getting laid.

Most of the writers center their lives and everything they do around women: Traveling for women, writing because they are frustrated by women, centering their existence on their success with women, and doing what they do because of women. I am convinced that most of the material these guys put out is pure erotica rather than actual conquests they made.

I just think this whole thing does more harm than good.

 

[backbreaker]

Damn Ambitious player lol, this is a good post. I have to give it to you


IN general, the way this is supposed to work is you learn some things nad move on. sitting around and talking about women all day is going to make you fixated on them which defeats the purpose.



I'll say this. I have a wife. I generally know enough about women to get laid / get dates when I want. But I feel like i know TOO much about women sometimes. you know before I came here, I looked at women as just.. women lol. dudes with tits basically lol. I mean I wanted to **** them but I wasn't really fixated on them, their behaviors, why they did this, why they did that. I didn't really care. I ust knew I liked pretty women.

But like, I went to see x men last night and it's like automatically i look around at women, oh she's with some buff dude she's probably a **** carousel rider lol. this is hte **** that goes on in my head now lol. I mean, i'm pretty sure I was correct, but that is not the point. That's not healthy. I saw these two little cute white girls sitting on their iphones and i thought too myself oh look 2 little Attention *****s lol. what have they done to me lol? I mean, i'm pretty sure they are lol, but this is not healthy ****. these are not healthy, normal people thoughts.


like, before i came to this site, and i were single, i would have saw the 2 chicks alone, i probably would have chickened out talking to them simply because they were cute and i was scared. and then years later, i would have convinced myself to talk to them, not because i was scared to talk to them but i would have to convince myself they weren't snobs and that the only way you can find out is to try. that's not healthy.



It's like, to be able to understand how to get women, you had to learn things you didn't really want / need to learn. It really is a red pill. While I'm happy that I understand hte dynamics of the relationship I have with my wife, I kinda do wish I could look at women like dudes with tits again.

 

[zekko]

I think guys here will attack you for attacking the manosphere. But whatever. Let me comment on a few of the things you were talking about:

The anger: I think a lot of the time the anger gets mixed up with the advice, and sometimes it's hard to seperate which is which. Like, the advice tells you that women want a guy who is not a pushover. Okay, fine. But does she want a guy who stands up for himself but is also angry at women, because he thinks he understands what they are about, and he doesn't like it? You read posts like "All chicks are cheaters and sluts", does knowing that help you score with women, lol?

Most of the writers center their lives around women: There's a discussion going on about Tyler from RSD right now, or recently. He's a guy who talks about going into clubs six nights a week, and to do this for years to build up your skills. Then of course maybe take a few of his bootcamps at three grand apiece to help, too. Here's a guy who studied under Mystery and has been working on his pickup skills for over 10 years now, and he still thiks he can improve.

I mean, unless you are absolutely fanatical and crazy about the lifestyle, who wants to put that much time and energy into something like women, which many men are able to just naturally be at ease and successful with?

 

[Vice]

It isn't a myth anymore, PUA has died down and lost a lot of its credibility that it used to have before. When one thing perishes, another is there to fill up that niche. The end goal of PUA, Manosphere, and the Red Pill movement seems to be to create personal growth in men who didn't have a chance to truly get in touch with their masculinity. It is to turn the former "AFC" or nerd into a guy that gets laid. While the intentions are good, I do think both the Manosphere and Red Pill actually do more harm than good in the long run. Lets talk about some of the reasons.

Honestly, the bottom line is that PUA/Red Pill/Manosphere comes down to one thing: dating success. Everything else is semantics. Don't get caught up in the labels for each school of thought, it really is just dating advice for men. And while "AFC's" may be the primary target audience, there are men out there with varying levels of success with women who have gotten into all of this.

The writers themselves have had little success: I read Matt Forney's blog and you will not be able to convince me that someone like Danny504 (bald guy with glasses and beer gut) gets laid. The more I see these Manosphere or "red pill" writers get exposed or outed all I have to see is a pic of them. Looks aren't everything but they do matter a lot, young women in America simply have far too many options themselves to actually go for someone that doesn't have somewhat decent looks. The writer for Danger & Play and Good Looking Loser are probably the two guys I can look at and see that they get laid. The problem is that Good Looking Loser's mentality is barely Red Pill at all, he focuses more on improving outward appearance and just going all caveman when it comes to getting laid.

Women will eventually develop maturity as they age and will start valuing a man's inner game more than their outer game. With that being said, you are right, many of these guys could benefit from a professional style consultation and some gym and beach time.

Women also don't have as many options as you'd think. Imagine life from an attractive woman's perspective: you DO have many options, but 99.69% of those options aren't any good, since most guys are lame scrubs/losers. It's like us being on a desert island with 10,000 fatties and like 10 attractive women on the island. Except they don't have the benefit of screening out guys on looks alone; since they have to screen via behavior, they need to develop quick ways to find out if a guy is what they're looking for.

But yes, as I said before, most of these writers could use some aesthetic improvement.

There is too much anger in the community which makes me think these guys are looking for attention and sympathy rather than focusing on self-improvement: I have been there and done that. When I was improving myself it was a fun process, I didn't take time to be angry. I have been angry and bitter when I was regressing and had nothing going for me in life. What I have found is that majority of the guys in such communities are just focused on gaining sympathy and attention rather than actually improving their lives. What's worse is by reading some of their blogs and writings you become an angry and bitter person that complains about how terrible women are rather than focusing on yourself and improving your life. I find that you are better off being a Blue Pill AFC rather than being an angry Red Pill reader that doesn't get laid.

I see some anger as well; it's especially tragic when their anger is intertwined with good advice. This is why I prefer to learn from programs you have to pay for, such as Double Your Dating and Real Social Dynamics products. Solid information, minus the BS. Those two particular companies have been around for a while and I've been studying them for about eight years.

It's more politics and less self-improvement: I don't keep up with politics TBH because it is a waste of time. I don't debate politics or any of that because I don't encounter feminazis on a daily basis that want to stop me from getting laid. It seems like to me that these guys have already made up their enemies in their heads and want others to join in on their fictional war. It's really all politics and not about going out there and getting laid.

I have this theory that they attack feminists because they're following one of the 48 Laws of Power by attacking a larger entity than them, thereby garnering more page views, which translates into more traffic, which translates into more money from sold eBooks. But honestly the weird Feminist-Men's Dating Success rivalry only exists because of very weak correlations.

Most of the writers center their lives and everything they do around women: Traveling for women, writing because they are frustrated by women, centering their existence on their success with women, and doing what they do because of women. I am convinced that most of the material these guys put out is pure erotica rather than actual conquests they made.

I just think this whole thing does more harm than good.

I'd have to disagree with you on that; once you've lived this lifestyle, the stories they write seems to be business as normal. And you're right about centering everything you do around women; it's reactive and try hard, if you're doing it for women, not for your own personal benefit.

 

[HowardHughesDicaprio]

I am not ambitious player lol, I think we already covered that backbreaker.

We cannot confused PUAs for manosphere and red pill guys. PUAs often show their faces on videos and are more about the money rather than spreading an ideology. To men Tyler from RSD is a PUA, Mystery is a PUA, and Neil Strauss is a PUA. These guys have good intentions and teach love towards women rather than the anger and bitterness. It is the manosphere where men have their minds poisoned with beliefs about women.

 

[Vice]

I am not ambitious player lol, I think we already covered that backbreaker.

We cannot confused PUAs for manosphere and red pill guys. PUAs often show their faces on videos and are more about the money rather than spreading an ideology. To men Tyler from RSD is a PUA, Mystery is a PUA, and Neil Strauss is a PUA. These guys have good intentions and teach love towards women rather than the anger and bitterness. It is the manosphere where men have their minds poisoned with beliefs about women.

Again, I disagree with you heavily on this. There is no difference between "PUA"/"manosphere"/"red pill" people. It's about dating success. All of them have money involved. Some of them transmit their message through blogs, others through more structured products.

But at the end of the day, it's all the same. What I think you're trying to say is that the BLOGGERS are the ones who tend to have the more poisonous beliefs; they are able to write whatever they want and have people read it for free.

 

[Don-Kong]

The source of the information is interesting. Keep an open mind.

The writers themselves have had little success: So what if it's some fat guys writings. Maybe he is right? Maybe he's a genius? He's probably had more rejection than most. DOES IT WORK FOR YOU? Fvck where it came from. Maybe the dudes get a few more extra chicks, so what, take what works and put the rest aside.

There is too much anger in the community which makes me think these guys are looking for attention and sympathy rather than focusing on self-improvement: Perhaps they're just guys being guys experiencing completely normal human emotions trying to get with girls and improve? Maybe they share their frustrations. Nothing wrong with that. We all get frustrated right?

It's more politics and less self-improvement The clue is in the title. SELF improvement. Your self improvement. Fvck what anyone else is doing. If they are creating weird sh1t, none of your business, get on with it.

Most of the writers center their lives and everything they do around women: Probably seems like that, but these sites are very specific.

 

[Don-Kong]

yeah

 

[HowardHughesDicaprio]

The source of the information is interesting. Keep an open mind.

The writers themselves have had little success: So what if it's some fat guys writings. Maybe he is right? Maybe he's a genius? He's probably had more rejection than most. DOES IT WORK FOR YOU? Fvck where it came from. Maybe the dudes get a few more extra chicks, so what, take what works and put the rest aside.

There is too much anger in the community which makes me think these guys are looking for attention and sympathy rather than focusing on self-improvement: Perhaps they're just guys being guys experiencing completely normal human emotions trying to get with girls and improve? Maybe they share their frustrations. Nothing wrong with that. We all get frustrated right?

It's more politics and less self-improvement The clue is in the title. SELF improvement. Your self improvement. Fvck what anyone else is doing. If they are creating weird sh1t, none of your business, get on with it.

Most of the writers center their lives and everything they do around women: Probably seems like that, but these sites are very specific.

This is by far the worst post I have seen on this entire forum.

 

[Mirage]

An interesting read.

When I arrived here, I was actually unsettled by the nature of the threads. Judging from the front page, a lot of threads aim to get some emotional support for some difficult situations. Other threads are meant for members to share their individual frustrations and resentment towards women. Then, there’s threads which discuss general psychological theories where members debate about who’s right and who’s wrong (those are the ones I like the least personally).

Don’t get me wrong, that’s fine, nothing wrong with that. I personally wish there were more threads where people account their dating experiences (“field reports” in the jargon). Less talk and more action so to speak.
I think it’s ok and normal and understandable to be upset over women but eventually you have to make the best out of it and take it as a learning experiences as opposed to investing time and energy in resentment and bitterness. It’s easy to say, I know, but it’s the only constructive way to go about it I find, the only reasonable way.

If something is not working, might as well try something else than complain that things didn’t go as anticipated.

I think the best approach to dating should pretty much nothing but individual field reports for each participating member. That’d be really a pro-active and positive approach to the whole thing I find.

Just my two cents.

 

[( . )( . )]

It's more politics and less self-improvement

You're Libyan are you not? Don't forget some men are invested in their native country. This is not a negative trait for a man btw, I have no idea as to where you came up with that idea.

Most of the writers center their lives and everything they do around women

Is it politics or women? Make up your mind man.

There is too much anger in the community which makes me think these guys are looking for attention and sympathy rather than focusing on self-improvement

Chicks, children and faggots should be the only ones in a society who fear anger. Remember anger is a legitimate emotion in the face of injustice. It is important to note that passive acceptance of evil is not a virtue.

The writers themselves have had little success

I'll admit we are no http://www.loveshack.org/forums/. But we are getting there. We just need more posters like yourself writing these "Here's why that's a problem" posts.

 

[TheBossman]

I'll admit we are no http://www.loveshack.org/forums/. Here's why that's a problem" posts.

Wow, talk about a place that is 180* different from Sosauve. Just going and reading for 5 min, I had to take some testosterone shots to counteract the Estrogen leaking out of my screen. Beta central.

 

[Starfvcks 64]

My problem with "the red pill" is the "activism" attached to it. I see MRA the same as I see feminists - they are both activists "fighting" for... really, nothing. There is no achievable goal other than raising voices and alienating people. To fight for "Men's Rights" or "women's rights" in 2014 is absurd - we already have rights. I understand the cause, but it's a futile pursuit that brings more people apart than it brings together.

The Red Pill is about seeing the truth in society when it comes to sexual dynamics, socially and biologically. It is about becoming the man you are meant to be, or want to be. It's seeing the reality, and then rejecting it. I believe it is an individual pursuit, not a team name on a jersey.

Men's Rights Activism is, ironically, just another social justice group playing the victim. It's very easy to mock and it makes the entire "red pill" community look bad. I'm sure people will be eager to type "but we need to fight for change." Don't be stupid. If positive change will come, it will be several generations down the road. It will be the results of all the people who found TRP, and raised their children with the right ideals. People will find TRP when they need it. Trying to force it on someone will only decrease the odds of them accepting it.

 

[( . )( . )]

My problem with "the red pill" is the "activism" attached to it. I see MRA the same as I see feminists - they are both activists "fighting" for... really, nothing. There is no achievable goal other than raising voices and alienating people. To fight for "Men's Rights" or "women's rights" in 2014 is absurd - we already have rights.

Dude what are you doing wasting your time here?? !!! You literally could be freeing hundreds of thousands of incarcerated "deadbeat dads" with your knowledge of "rights". It's obviously too late for these guys but you could be a superhero or something with this secret knowledge.

Say just out of curiosity when you release this information to the general public how many men will get the deeds back for their houses they lost? We talking 80, 90%? Don't tell me ALL of them. You will be a GOD my friend. Don't forget us little people when you're famous bro.

 

[VikingKing]

Dude what are you doing wasting your time here?? !!! You literally could be freeing hundreds of thousands of incarcerated "deadbeat dads" with your knowledge of "rights". It's obviously too late for these guys but you could be a superhero or something with this secret knowledge.

Say just out of curiosity when you release this information to the general public how many men will get the deeds back for their houses they lost? We talking 80, 90%? Don't tell me ALL of them. You will be a GOD my friend. Don't forget us little people when you're famous bro.

The manosphere can be a hard pill to swallow. But above, bolded is the result of feminism, and womens "rights"

Feminism/ liberalism is responsible for the broken families, and for the unjust system we have that discriminates against men so much that it drives them insane.

Its not really equal to allow women to have the same rights as men, the reason why is they will always have an edge, they have a vagina. That was thier advantage from the beginning of time.

So now they have the same rights (plus more) and they can still use there bodies as advantage.

This is why I have zero sympathy for women, or their "problems".

They are double dipping.

If women want to work with men, and compete against men, they should wear burkas, cover their bodies, no sexual harassment laws.

When their sexual powers are some how removed, then and only then should they be allowed the same rights as men. It's only logical.

 

[Starfvcks 64]

Dude what are you doing wasting your time here?? !!! You literally could be freeing hundreds of thousands of incarcerated "deadbeat dads" with your knowledge of "rights". It's obviously too late for these guys but you could be a superhero or something with this secret knowledge.

Say just out of curiosity when you release this information to the general public how many men will get the deeds back for their houses they lost? We talking 80, 90%? Don't tell me ALL of them. You will be a GOD my friend. Don't forget us little people when you're famous bro.

I'm not against the message behind MRA, and I know we live in an emasculated society that overvalues women, but there are far too many "activists" who don't do anything other than play victim (like women, ironically). The message shouldn't be how flawed female rationale is, it should be how stupid it is that men buy into it. As far as I'm concerned, the best way to demonstrate TRP is by being the example. Whenever I hear some pissed off guy crying "I can't believe she hooked up with [Young Starfvcks] when we've been friends for so long" I feel I've done my job.
That is the kind of example a guy will recall when he discovers TRP himself.
You can tell a guy not to get married because _____ and he may understand, but don't knock on his front door and ask him to convert to mormonism.

The problem isn't women, the problem is men who believe women can't be a problem.

Girls have it so fvcking easy, and guys keep believing women are oppressed...
I like your fedora in this pic: http://media.tumblr.com/699847b50b16ccf4abc533ee6711df1e/tumblr_inline_n2cpu1czKI1sb4owg.jpg

 

[Starfvcks 64]

This is why I have zero sympathy for women, or their "problems".

Me either. It's absolutely insane what we let women get away with. There is no accountability because guys think girls are extra special, fragile souls that just want to be loved.

And if you work with women you know first hand, because they spend their whole shift complaining about inequality but the minute they have to do some physical labor they'll rush over saying "you're a guy so can you carry this?"

 

[sambwoy]

Many people on the TV who prop up the BS we have to put up with. Even guys like Jeremy Kyle. Despite its faults, thank goodness for the 'net.
Guys like that are a traitor to the manosphere. The UK went down the tubes when this show began, and its supposed to be progression. This nauseating revering of females, in spite of the heinous BS they commit (and yes, not **ALL**, but you get what I'm saying).
Proper men don’t hit females, you say? Well, three things:
1) ideally no-one should hit anyone
2) a proper man does not say to his brother ‘you are such a mouse of a man I can pick you up off that chair and drop you’ or other seemingly well-rehearsed machoisms that he concocts.
I don’t care what is LEGISLATED in society. Not everyone thinks his draconian ‘PC’ standpoint. If he pulled that white knight BS in some far off country, I wonder how men there would take it?
3) Disregarding girls like that and focusing on YOURSELF as a man does not make you a bad person. They disregard us (regardless of if or not they think you’re ‘hot’) all the time.

 

[dasein]

This is by far the worst post I have seen on this entire forum.

Your OP was worse. If the post you reference is the "worst post here" (in your 1 month time on this forum) then the rest must be bona fide field theory. I disagree with your OP and don't think you've made a good case, just tossing out ad hominems and strawman like a... female... does not make a point for you, at least when grown men are reading.

1. Your first point is pure ad hominem with no substance behind it.
2. Your second point is pure data mining, also with a little ad hom and strawman. What % of posts on this forum reflect anger? I submit it's not that high. If a thread/post did reflect some anger or backlash, but valid as good advice anyway, where's your beef with that? Internet 101, one of the primary functions of all forums, and particularly relationship forums, is to blow off steam. If "anger" alone invalidates a social movement or position, you just invalidated feminism entirely... as well as the Civil Rights Movement.
3. Politics? What % of the posts to this forum have any political content whatsoever? 1-5%? Thin-skinned much? or just blowing smoke?
4. Most of the writers center everything they do around women? Sure if they don't take -my- and many other posters' here advice. Care to cite this? Use this forum, find some posters who "center everything they do around women." IME here, the wisest voices that I have learned from do the exact opposite or have maintained healthy balance in their lives.

Honestly, I think you are a woman, as you sure write and reason like one. Are you perhaps here trying to do a holiday hitpiece on this forum after the UCSD shooter? Seeking to harvest some good "manosphere" foaming at the mouth quotes? Good luck with that.

 

[HowardHughesDicaprio]

From this thread it is obvious the members on here support both of these nonsense movements that help produce psychopaths. The arguments for these movements are weak so it just shows the obvious biases. If you are taking advice from some loser who looks like he has never touched a girl then you have issues and deserve the sexless life that you get.

I also disagree with exposure being a good thing. A lot of this movement pulls in young men who are lost in life and when they get exposed to this kind of stuff they can't handle it. The writers themselves are angry from rejection that women give them and as a result try to segregate the two genders. It is no doubt in my mind that the Santa Barbara kid read one too many manosphere blog posts and let the entitlement he has towards women control his thought process but of course guys on here who follow those blogs will deny that entirely.

It disgusts me how these schools of thoughts have penetrated a lot of online communities and since their followers do not have much of a social life or any friends they can spend endless hours in front of the internet debating how good the movement is. Most of what the movement promotes is poison to the brain and no one has called out the writers.

Just shows how stubborn, close minded, and committed the small number of men that follow this nonsense are. It become something for sexually frustrated men who have no success with women to believe in, in the end it is just a sympathy movement for me begging for attention the posters on this forum who are terrible at dissecting information have proven that to be true. We are screwed as a society if more sexually frustrated men who have a banner such as the red pill to fly by use it to beg for sympathy and attention from society and as my post shows these men are morons who aren't open to reason.