My Game Theory

[Chamber36]

Well I been reading a lot of Heartiste and listening to lots of Tom Leykis.
Just now while taking a shower I had a bit of a shift in perspective. I figured I would write down my new theory. It may be basic, but it's a matter of mindset, so it's important, especially for someone who may have pedestalized women.

See, the more a female sleeps around, the more her value decreases. The female imperative would have us believe that a female can sleep around as much as she wants, like men, but I disagree. I think a female's value decreases the more she sleeps around, because it makes them jaded. This is open for discussion of course.

So the more a female sleeps around, the more her value decreases. The only way to have sex without letting her value drop is by getting into an LTR.

So if a female is an 8, and she wants to stay an 8 AND have sex, she better get into an LTR. Sleeping around will cause the value to decrease. Therefore the boyfriend is necessary in order for the female's value to remain static.

By finding a man for an LTR, they can prevent their value from dropping and still have sex.

So, next time you approach a girl and try to get a number, you're offering her the opportunity to stop her value from decreasing any further, at least if she were to decide to stick with you for an LTR. That's another question of course. You can always just pump n dump, but women don't want to feel that way.

And not only does an LTR prevent a woman's value from drastically decreasing, if you are a high value male, her value will inherently increase a well.

I'd like to hear what anyone has to say. Whoever disagree's, agrees or has more to add, I am quite curious what you've got to say.

 

[LostAndConfused]

I agree! That's a cool way to think about game, and its funny the best ideas always happen in the shower

Roissy is my favorite game writer too.

I disagree your last point though. You can't "increase" a girl's value. Her value is completely tied into her looks (cf: Roissy & women's sexual market value). Even if a girl is a slut, she can go to another city and still be a high value woman. Although studies have shown that girls who have alot of sex are pretty much ruined for LTR....Rather, YOUR value will go DOWN to closer to the chicks level, if you're dating down. When I first started learning game, I would settle for HB4-5s. My value definitely went DOWN instead of theirs going UP.

 

[Jariel]

if you are a high value male, her value will inherently increase a well.

This is the key to it all! This is why I and a lot of guys on this forum preach self improvement and inherent change to who you are, rather than gimmicks.

Although bearing the above in mind, I do wonder why you're listening to a guy like Tom Leykis. He's the exact opposite of self-improvement and a high value male. He's a male version of Rosie O'Donnell and I'm pretty sure he must repulse women the same way she repulses us men.

Just work on yourself and your value, and women will want to be with you, want to be seen with you and they will give you far more opportunities than any of the pick up artists or gurus out there.

 

[ArcBound]

I agree! That's a cool way to think about game, and its funny the best ideas always happen in the shower

Roissy is my favorite game writer too.

I disagree your last point though. You can't "increase" a girl's value. Her value is completely tied into her looks (cf: Roissy & women's sexual market value). Even if a girl is a slut, she can go to another city and still be a high value woman. Although studies have shown that girls who have alot of sex are pretty much ruined for LTR....Rather, YOUR value will go DOWN to closer to the chicks level, if you're dating down. When I first started learning game, I would settle for HB4-5s. My value definitely went DOWN instead of theirs going UP.

Her value increases not in the sense that more people want to fvck her, but her standing in society. She gets to show off her high value boyfriend to her friends and her single friends envy her. Her standing in her group of friends increases because of that.

 

[Chamber36]

I do wonder why you're listening to a guy like Tom Leykis. He's the exact opposite of self-improvement and a high value male. He's a male version of Rosie O'Donnell and I'm pretty sure he must repulse women the same way she repulses us men..

You just gotta take his info with a grain of salt, but he does have some basic game to teach.

One thing he showed me is that women love trying to change a man. Not that I didn't know. He just helped me to understand it a bit better. That's why women love jerks/*******s. They think the jerks didn't get enough love while growing up, so the females want to make the jerks into their own little project. Like a renovation. They figure if they could just tweak him he'd make the perfect guy. That's why women always complain about their jerk boyfriends. They think they can "change" them. Never realised that before.

So just looking at it from Tom Leykis' extremist point of view helped to broaden my field of vision. It's just important to take his advice with a grain of salt. You can't throw out the baby with the bathwater. Just because he rambles doesn't mean he has nothing good to say.

 

[J Roc]

This is the key to it all! This is why I and a lot of guys on this forum preach self improvement and inherent change to who you are, rather than gimmicks.

Tom Leykis tells guys to go to college and not to get married or have kids until they have a stable career.

 

[zekko]

One thing he showed me is that women love trying to change a man.

I've noticed a lot of girls like to turn their boyfriends into "projects", either to meet their own needs or to make them more respectable and higher status in society.

That's the cool thing about my current girlfriend, though. Eight years together and she's never tried to change me at all in any way, shape, or form. She's always accepted me exactly as I am, which is pretty cool, I think.

 

[Jariel]

Leykis does have some words of wisdom, but so do most people with extreme points of view. However, if it's seduction advice you want, you're better off looking to someone less bitter and generally better at attracting women.

The problem with guys like him is that you get typical nice guys and AFCs who hear his advice and think they must go to the opposite extreme to attract women. What happens is that they become nice guys masquerading as jerks and end up driving everyone away. I've been there and done that.

They think the jerks didn't get enough love while growing up, so the females want to make the jerks into their own little project. Like a renovation. They figure if they could just tweak him he'd make the perfect guy. That's why women always complain about their jerk boyfriends. They think they can "change" them. Never realised that before.

Yes, there's definitely a lot of appeal in a jerk. However, that jerk has to have more going for him than just being rude and obnoxious. When women go for jerks, they tend to be good looking, popular or charismatic jerks. In fact, most of these bad boys win women over by being smooth and showing them attention or dare I say, even a hint of sensitivity.

 

[Chamber36]

Leykis does have some words of wisdom, but so do most people with extreme points of view. However, if it's seduction advice you want, you're better off looking to someone less bitter and generally better at attracting women.

I won't say most people with extreme POV's have words of wisdom, unless one were to say most people in general have words of wisdom as well.

The problem with guys like him is that you get typical nice guys and AFCs who hear his advice and think they must go to the opposite extreme to attract women. What happens is that they become nice guys masquerading as jerks and end up driving everyone away. I've been there and done that.

Me too. But sometimes a man needs to swing on the nice-guy/jerk pendulum a little longer. I guess I am still figuring out what my game has to offer me.

Yes, there's definitely a lot of appeal in a jerk. However, that jerk has to have more going for him than just being rude and obnoxious. When women go for jerks, they tend to be good looking, popular or charismatic jerks. In fact, most of these bad boys win women over by being smooth and showing them attention or dare I say, even a hint of sensitivity.

Well, I won't say the jerks are popular or goodlooking. What would make them "charismatic" though is the fact they they're willing to stand up for their beliefs. A jerk isn't afraid to say 'no'. That's the appeal of the jerk.

Most of them act popular without being popular at all. What attracts women to them is the amount of disregard they have for other people. The more disregard they have for anyone else, the more alpha they're perceived to be. There's also guys that know how to say "no" that aren't jerks. It's just less obvious to the women.

 

[Jariel]

Most of them act popular without being popular at all. What attracts women to them is the amount of disregard they have for other people. The more disregard they have for anyone else, the more alpha they're perceived to be. There's also guys that know how to say "no" that aren't jerks. It's just less obvious to the women.

I totally disagree on this. Yes there are a LOT of jerks who act popular, who even act rich and brag a lot, but most people can see right through them and see that they're really insecure attention seekers. Women are especially intuitive about guys like this.

In my opinion, and in my own personal experience, what attracts women about the jerk is not the way they disregard others, but the fact that they can walk away and are totally independent. They will smooth talk a woman into bed, then not call her or go and hook up/flirt with someone else. This sends women crazy. They want what they can't have and so begins the challenge. They end up chasing this guy, hoping to bring out that smooth and nice side they first saw in him and win back his attention.

Women are always moaning on Facebook about some guy they trusted and built up their hopes, but who turned out to be an a$shole.

 

[Jariel]

Quality women do sometimes see past the jerk but I've seen a lot of obviously(to me) insecure guys fake their way to the top with women.

For how long? I usually find they are exposed very quickly.

...not guys that pretended to be AFC betas and then went bipolar on them lol.

Nobody said anything about acting AFC. Knowing how to smooth talk a woman, show interest in her and make her feel special is not AFC. That's a gift posessed by all great players.

 

[sighsigh]

Women (and men) get into LTRs simply because when you have the hots for someone, you WANT to stay with them. That is, your brain chemistry changes so that you develop a dependence on them. It's just biology's way of keeping men and women together so that they can raise the children.

You've developed a very arbitrary explanation for something quite simple.

 

[Wildebeest]

I can add another layer to your argument.
perceived reality versus true reality.

let me redefine your initial premise slightly, it is more correct to say that:

The more it is PERCEIVED that a woman is sleeping around, the more her value drops. Since another possibility is that a woman sleeping around, but her social groups never observe those events, and her value does NOT drop in her independent or unrelated social circles.

So the woman has a second solution to the problem of accessing more sex without losing social value, and that is multiple discreet hookups that are completely insulated from her common social circles.

Why do you think women will often have meaningless sex when they're on holiday or somewhere new with someone new; no consequences in the form of losing 'social value' in their common social groups.

If you can be that guy, that guy who doesnt 'kiss and tell', the cool guy, who will **** her brains out and never let on to anybody, and she is aware of this, well then she is yours.

You dont have to be in a LTR to have meaningless sex, you just have to provide a social environment where she will suffer no social consequences.

 

[zekko]

Knowing how to smooth talk a woman, show interest in her and make her feel special is not AFC. That's a gift posessed by all great players.

I agree with this.All the best player types I've known have done this. Of course, they may not be sincere, but that's besides the point. "Show interest in her and make her feel special".

My question is why is this so rarely discussed here? 99% of the advice on here is about how to show indifference to her and make her feel like she isn't special? Showing interest and making her feel special is presented as being AFC, but the best guys with women do it.

I'd like to see more presented here on the "show interest" part of game. Usually it isn't talked about because PUAs seem to assume every guy has the exact same problem with women - that they pedestaize them and show them too much attention. But I bet a lot of guys are unsuccessful at attempting pickup because they are missing a key ingredient - heart. "Bad boy with a heart" is a tagline from one pickup company.

By the way, I think the idea of acting like a jerk so the girl has something to change is ridiculous.

 

[sighsigh]

It's never discussed because it's difficult to show interest in a women and make her feel special without coming across as needy. But if you figure it out less us know and you might win a Nobel prize.

 

[Jariel]

I totally agree Zekko and it's a sad fact that many guys in the community have been conditioned to think that way.

I remember seeing the art of charisma described as making others feel good while they're in your presence. I've applied this for years and I'm popular and well-liked where ever I go. I've been on dates with women and barely spoke about myself all night, and yet they say how they feel a deep connection with me.

It's never discussed because it's difficult to show interest in a women and make her feel special without coming across as needy. But if you figure it out less us know and you might win a Nobel prize.

It's all about confidence and moderation. If you can pay a girl a genuine compliment, without depending on something in return, it can go a long way. Sometimes on a date I'll tell a girl she looks beautiful. Or sometimes I'll tell a girl I enjoy her company or how refreshing it is to have some intelligent conversation.

But it's not just about compliments. It's about encouraging her to speak about herself and paying interest in her as a person. This is how you build personal connections and make them feel a bond with you.

To avoid looking needy, you just keep the attention in moderation, withdraw from time to time and let her chase you.

 

[Chamber36]

It's alright to make someone feel special but make sure they ARE special. If you start trying to make non-special people feel special, they'll know something's up.
Opening with compliments also never works unless it's calibrated with a neg, in my experience.

You don't need to talk to a girl to make her feel special. If you really know the game and understand the way women think and you're alpha, that will make women very very curious about you. It's like an oedipal complex. You don't even need to show special interest in a girl. They'll just wonder what it is about you that makes you different.

I recently made a girl feel very special by giving her the opportunity to get me a drink!

Also everything you say has to be chock-full of originality. There can't be one sentence coming out of your mouth that's already been said before.

Wow, I never thought I could boil it down so much.

1 be alpha
2 understand women
3 be outcome independent
4 be original

If you can do these 4 I don't think you need to compliment much. You can just go straight to compliance testing.

 

[zekko]

I remember seeing the art of charisma described as making others feel good while they're in your presence.

Right, and then they associate you with that good feeling.
Pickup theory doesn't seem to be aimed toward that. Guys around you get AMOGed and tooled. Girls are made to feel insecure, lower value, and one of many.

To avoid looking needy, you just keep the attention in moderation, withdraw from time to time and let her chase you.

You won't appear needy if you are genuinely not outcome dependent.
It's all about the frame you're coming from.
Also, giving interest and making a girl feel special is not necessarily synonymous with giving compliments. Having good eye contact for instance, conveys interest and can help create a connection.

 

[bigneil]

The more a female sleeps around, the more her value decreases... because it makes them jaded.

I agree 100%. But remember: the most important thing is that she is unjaded. If she is unjaded and claims to have done unsavory things, let her unjaded nature define her behavior as ok versus claiming she must be bad if she's done XYZ.

It's like the saying "A healthy person is a succesful person". An unjaded woman is a good woman.

 

[Jariel]

Right, and then they associate you with that good feeling.
Pickup theory doesn't seem to be aimed toward that. Guys around you get AMOGed and tooled. Girls are made to feel insecure, lower value, and one of many.

But that's the sad thing about Pick up artists. Instead of being genuinely cool guys who people enjoy being around and who encourage the best in others, they try to reduce people to their level, using tricks and mindgames to wear down their self esteem.

Most PUAs are snakes, who are always looking for ways to undermine others. In reality, it very often backfires. I've had ****y guys try to undermine or AMOG me many times, but because I have natural charisma and a quick wit, it just doesn't work and they end up exposing themselves as the bitter creeps they are. Besides, people generally side with me because I'm the more likeable person.

Also, giving interest and making a girl feel special is not necessarily synonymous with giving compliments. Having good eye contact for instance, conveys interest and can help create a connection.

Very true. But for your attention and interest to mean anything to her, you really need to be a man of value. If a pathetic weasel of a man starts showing interest in a woman, she'll define him as creepy or desperate regardless of what he says or does. But a good looking and popular guy can do and say the exact same thing and she'll be hooked.