My (current) thoughts on seduction
- Thread starter Master of the Universe
- Start date
Great post MOTU.
Some succinct thoughts here.
1) I totally agree that you are at the level of unconscious competence, that alone creates a positive attitude and belief that attracts women..., thus in essence making it seem as if all the work and studying wasn't necessary. Your ability to create rapport with women has skyrocketed and it makes some of the games seem less necessary
2) However, for most people or beginners, some of these games are necessary or useful at times, if for nothing more than to get them off the ass and make them feel like they can enter the battlefield of dating with some weapons (ex also when dealing with Rules girls). So don't deny or forget what you've learned
3) Most importantly you have developed and contributed some step-wise action plans (DJ boot camp) that have helped countless others, myself in particular and for that I am grateful.
I do believe any post documenting your changes would help greatly. Looking forward to it.
Some succinct thoughts here.
1) I totally agree that you are at the level of unconscious competence, that alone creates a positive attitude and belief that attracts women..., thus in essence making it seem as if all the work and studying wasn't necessary. Your ability to create rapport with women has skyrocketed and it makes some of the games seem less necessary
2) However, for most people or beginners, some of these games are necessary or useful at times, if for nothing more than to get them off the ass and make them feel like they can enter the battlefield of dating with some weapons (ex also when dealing with Rules girls). So don't deny or forget what you've learned
3) Most importantly you have developed and contributed some step-wise action plans (DJ boot camp) that have helped countless others, myself in particular and for that I am grateful.
I do believe any post documenting your changes would help greatly. Looking forward to it.
MOTU, that post was even better than the DJ Bible. I agree, what's the need to play all these games and treat a woman like she is less of a human being and you are the big prize. You are both the big prize. The advise that is dispensed on these forums.....would guys treat their mothers and sisters in such manner.
Lost
Master Don Juan
wtf.. first u say that all women are equal to all men and that no one is better than anyone else and no one is a prize.. and then u go and say that YOU ARE THE PRIZE AND U R RAISING THEM TO UR LEVEL WHEN U COMPLIMENT...WTF?!? gg contradictions
Lionheart
Master Don Juan
Great Stuff.
I think that you have explained in plain english the motivations of the DJ rules.
Someone said "Get confidence and until you get it - fake it."
The bible is often just the Placebo that the N00b needs to get him into the mindset of self-improvement (mentally, physically and spiritually) that creates a DJ.
Only problem with living in England, all the discussion is over before I ever get here
I think that you have explained in plain english the motivations of the DJ rules.
Someone said "Get confidence and until you get it - fake it."
The bible is often just the Placebo that the N00b needs to get him into the mindset of self-improvement (mentally, physically and spiritually) that creates a DJ.
Only problem with living in England, all the discussion is over before I ever get here
MotU, this was a great post. It's something that I've been wanting to post myself but never got around to doing. I think the bottom line is that the dating has become a real-life version of Dungeons and Dragons to a lot of guys. They like thinking they have a certain 'strategy' to go into a given situation that will give the girl no choice but to be attracted and fall for them. They have this illusion that some of the "Master PUAs" have so much skill that they walk into a room and turn the place upside down with neg-hits, and takeaways, and gimmics, and patterns, and anchors. But the REALITY of it is, NONE of those things are contributions to the attraction that ALREADY was; that radiates from him everywhere he goes.
I think the other part of it is that a lot of DJs (yep, even the good ones) have very low self-esteem. They place high priority on what others think of them, and will sometimes, without even thinking about it, judge their own self-worth on what others think of them. So they study and 'learn', and try to see what works for others, and they emulate that. When they see more "results" they assume it's because of the tactics that they learned. They have people liking them, and accepting them, and begin to feel good about themselves. So they post and read more, and get more "game". Now their ego's are INFLATED and all of a sudden they are better than every other guy (and girl) out there. They are "the prize", they don't care what others think, they know bytches are just holes to be fvcked on a pair of legs. But in reality they truely DON'T think that at all. As much as they want to believe they are better, and that they don't care what others think, they THRIVE off of the results they are getting. And THAT, is the ultimate supplication - to alter your entire personality and infect your natural behavior with "rules" so that others will like you more. How sick.
And what's even more bizzare, is that when you try to explain what is actually HAPPENING during the interaction, WHY she was attracted to begin with...they learn that it had nothing to do with their 'game' or their little methods. It was always about how they demonstrated themselves naturally. How 'real' they were so that the girl could see them for what they were. The reason that patterns, and neg-hits worked is because they gave you (false) confidence to even approach to begin with! When you approache,d you were confident in the material. From THAT second on, from when she realized she was fundementally attracted to you, the other "tactics" made no positive difference.
Negs SEEMED to work because she was ALREADY attracted and felt she had to come on a little more obvious so that you'd pick it up. When you negged her you appeared "not interested" and she saw she needed to make it a little more apparent to you. Didn't increase the attraction, just gave her no choice but to SHOW you. Again, based on insecurity that she had to SHOW you how attracted she was so that you feel good.
Patterns seemed to work, again, because they gave false confidence. MOST of them time chicks see right through them because your natural language doesn't match the pattern. If she was READING your dialogue it would be as if the pattern was in bold font with quotes around it. That's how obvious. If you STILL succeed after reciting a pattern, it just means that she was into you to begin with. You got laid IN SPITE of it, not BECAUSE of it. Wake up.
But people don't want to hear that because they don't ever want to feel 'out of control'. And instead of de-clouding themselves of the junk that they've convined themselves is responsible for their success and started becoming TRUELY confident in their OWN self, they close their eyes, deny it, and turn their heads in ignorance. It's ashame.
Your TRUE strength in this game lies in doing what you want, when you want, BECAUSE you want. Women are going to be attracted, and some not so attracted. All you can do it be real, sincere, and proud in who you are...the attraction will take care of itself. And instead of seeing this as a loss of control and power, see it as an amazing freedom! You no longer have to 'be' somebody else. You can have fun, relax, and do what you feel like.
In fact, MotU, the only part that I disagree in your whole post is this:
" Same thing with a chick. If she wasn't initially attracted to you, then the way to change her behavior is to completely shake up her definition of who you are."
I don't think people should have to change the definition, or even the perception of who they are for ANYBODY. That is going against what is natural for them. When you can really get down to who you are, and be PROUD of that, your chances of being attractive are way greater than ANY fictional character you can 'transform' into.
I'd like to respond to es_mer8's post, but I don't think that's going to solve anything. Like Mr Mystery said, this is the stuff that people have to find out for themselves. I know that if I was in my "Prime DJ Days" I would have been in denial as well. People have to go through the cycle to see.
-Blitz
I think the other part of it is that a lot of DJs (yep, even the good ones) have very low self-esteem. They place high priority on what others think of them, and will sometimes, without even thinking about it, judge their own self-worth on what others think of them. So they study and 'learn', and try to see what works for others, and they emulate that. When they see more "results" they assume it's because of the tactics that they learned. They have people liking them, and accepting them, and begin to feel good about themselves. So they post and read more, and get more "game". Now their ego's are INFLATED and all of a sudden they are better than every other guy (and girl) out there. They are "the prize", they don't care what others think, they know bytches are just holes to be fvcked on a pair of legs. But in reality they truely DON'T think that at all. As much as they want to believe they are better, and that they don't care what others think, they THRIVE off of the results they are getting. And THAT, is the ultimate supplication - to alter your entire personality and infect your natural behavior with "rules" so that others will like you more. How sick.
And what's even more bizzare, is that when you try to explain what is actually HAPPENING during the interaction, WHY she was attracted to begin with...they learn that it had nothing to do with their 'game' or their little methods. It was always about how they demonstrated themselves naturally. How 'real' they were so that the girl could see them for what they were. The reason that patterns, and neg-hits worked is because they gave you (false) confidence to even approach to begin with! When you approache,d you were confident in the material. From THAT second on, from when she realized she was fundementally attracted to you, the other "tactics" made no positive difference.
Negs SEEMED to work because she was ALREADY attracted and felt she had to come on a little more obvious so that you'd pick it up. When you negged her you appeared "not interested" and she saw she needed to make it a little more apparent to you. Didn't increase the attraction, just gave her no choice but to SHOW you. Again, based on insecurity that she had to SHOW you how attracted she was so that you feel good.
Patterns seemed to work, again, because they gave false confidence. MOST of them time chicks see right through them because your natural language doesn't match the pattern. If she was READING your dialogue it would be as if the pattern was in bold font with quotes around it. That's how obvious. If you STILL succeed after reciting a pattern, it just means that she was into you to begin with. You got laid IN SPITE of it, not BECAUSE of it. Wake up.
But people don't want to hear that because they don't ever want to feel 'out of control'. And instead of de-clouding themselves of the junk that they've convined themselves is responsible for their success and started becoming TRUELY confident in their OWN self, they close their eyes, deny it, and turn their heads in ignorance. It's ashame.
Your TRUE strength in this game lies in doing what you want, when you want, BECAUSE you want. Women are going to be attracted, and some not so attracted. All you can do it be real, sincere, and proud in who you are...the attraction will take care of itself. And instead of seeing this as a loss of control and power, see it as an amazing freedom! You no longer have to 'be' somebody else. You can have fun, relax, and do what you feel like.
In fact, MotU, the only part that I disagree in your whole post is this:
" Same thing with a chick. If she wasn't initially attracted to you, then the way to change her behavior is to completely shake up her definition of who you are."
I don't think people should have to change the definition, or even the perception of who they are for ANYBODY. That is going against what is natural for them. When you can really get down to who you are, and be PROUD of that, your chances of being attractive are way greater than ANY fictional character you can 'transform' into.
I'd like to respond to es_mer8's post, but I don't think that's going to solve anything. Like Mr Mystery said, this is the stuff that people have to find out for themselves. I know that if I was in my "Prime DJ Days" I would have been in denial as well. People have to go through the cycle to see.
-Blitz
donshawv
Don Juan
blitz
wow! that was an awesome response blitz. i agree with you completely.
wow! that was an awesome response blitz. i agree with you completely.
Master of the Universe
Senior Don Juan
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2002
- Messages
- 396
- Reaction score
- 12
Replies to Posts I
Hi guys,
Wow, sorry it took so long to respond guys, but I have literally been working around the clock. In fact, before I respond to some of your replies, let me share with you something interesting.
A few days ago, for a period of 7 days, I worked a total of 118 hours. In fact there was a 40 hour period where I worked straight with no sleep.
But here's the amazing thing, a few months ago I hired a new employee. He's on salary, and as part of his contract he is to work 40 hours a week. Now guess what - he worked almost as many hours as me, even though he wasn't getting paid one cent of overtime.
Plus I never once pushed him to work so many hours - he took the initiative. Heck, I was the one trying to get him to go home and get some sleep.
So the question is Why? Why did he work the equivalent of 3 full time jobs for the price of 1, and why was he so excited to do so?
The answer is that I treated him the same way that I treat the girls I date:
1) I Lead - A lot of business owners and managers seem to think that managing is about forcing your employees to do their job by coercion, threats, or other negative motivation. Or the exact opposite of begging the employee to do the job. With the first method, the employee is resentful and hates his job. With the second, he despises the employer and has no respect for him.
This is no different than how a lot of guys try to get girls to do what they want. They either try to use all sort of techniques on them, trick them, or pressure them. Or the complete opposite and behave as doormats. All of those relays to the chick your insecurity in your own attractiveness.
Instead, I shared with him a vision. I shared with him the vision of my company years from now, and with him as part of it. I shared my dreams, and he chose to a part of it. When he accepted the position with me, I could only offer him a fraction of what he was receiving in his past employment. So why did he work with me? I asked him this question. He said because I knew where I was going, and I had no doubt that I would get there. He wanted to be a part of it.
Same thing with girls. I know where I'm going, and I lead, and they want to be a part of my world.
2) I Made Him Feel Special - In every other e-mail that I send to him, or every time I speak with him, I continually exalt him. Like girls, at first he was a bit uncomfortable with the praise. But just like the girls I date, it wasn't long before he realized that I had no ulterior motive, and he relished in the feeling of appreciation. We're always making up new and better nicknames for each other. One day he's The Prophet and I'm the Man, a different day he is the Great One, and I'm the Awesome, etc.
This is how I behave with girls. I put them up. At first they may feel a bit awkward, but once they pass that initial awkwardness, they relish the feeling of truly being raised on a platform. And of course, the only natural thing to do is for them to raise me as well. I mean, the value of the praise is determined to a very great extent by whom it is that gave the praise. So it's no surprise that they in turn praise me as well.
Anyway, here are the responses to some of your posts...
Oscar Wilde wrote,
Further simplification of the concepts:
Absolute confidence in yourself (and zero concern for others perception of you)
There are no rules, only guidelines
Very good simplification, I like it.
es_mer8 wrote,
I've had nearly two weeks to fine craft my skill.
Es_mer8, with all due respect, it takes way more than two weeks to fine tune any skill, including picking up chicks. What you'll find is that there will be several waves of "aha" moments. One when you realize everything you've known about girls was wrong, another when you start implementing the attitude of being the prize, another when you move on to seduction aspects like speed seduction, mystery method, doc love, or whatever piques your fancy, another when you realize that you no longer need any of those methods, etc.
Everything else in your first post (points 1 - 6) I agree with. Very well written!
Kricket wrote,
His Quote:
"and after all this, I've come back to where I started from."
Except this time, you are a new person.
WOW. Very, very, true. Excellent observation!
Slickster wrote,
Well inorder to get others to like you, you have to like yourself... With that said there will still be people who won't like or be attracted to you. And thats okay.
Yup, that's it right there. Like yourself, and I mean TRULY like yourself. When you truly like yourself, you tend to like everyone else. And that will cause others to like and be attracted to you. Still, not everyone will be attracted to you, and that's okay. That doesn't mean that you're not attractive, and it does not mean that they are bad. Not everyone has to like or be attracted to you. Good post!
Ronin I wrote,
To really understand this I only need to look at my current situation. I am currently seeing two women - both of them pretty equal in just about every measurable way. But one of them has made herself VERY available to me while the other has proven to be a bit more work (over the past 3-4 weeks or so). In that time I have seen my IL in the "challenging" girl steadily increase while my IL in the other girl has remained steady or maybe declined a bit.
Let me ask you this question Ronin. The one that has made herself more available to you... What if the more time you spent with her, the more you realized that there is more and more to her? And that the more time you spent with her, the more amazing you felt?
I will grant you this much - challenge DOES work, assuming that you're comparing two average guys, neither of whom know how to share themselves with others to the full extent.
I can tell you from my statistics that I have yet to have any girl break up with me after we've went out on 3 dates. I'm sure given enough time that will change, but in the meantime I have not yet had a chick break up with me after we've went out 3 times.
Why? Because I am a drug. I've had a girl tell me rather poetically that when she is with others she feels like a bird with her wings clipped off, while with me I let her fly.
The bottom line is that, for me at least, the more time that I spend with a girl, the more she likes me. My average date is 4 hours, and that includes first dates.
So Ronin, if the girl who has made herself available to you in fact made you feel 2x, 3x, or 10x better than the girl who was a challenge - who would you pick?
Plus, I never said in my post that you should always make yourself available to the chick. The simple truth is that when you start realizing how attractive you truly are, others will realize it as well. And because of that you will not have enough time to spend exclusively with this girl - others, both male and female, will also be desiring of your time. And even if you do choose to spend a good amount of time with one girl, she will unconsciously realize that you are not doing so because you are desperate, but because you enjoy her company, and that will cause her to enjoy your company even more. It's a proven fact that when you find out that someone likes you, you tend to like them more (assuming there was some attraction in the first place).
I agree to a certain extent that it depends on your motives. But sometimes it's not your motives that matter but HER INTERPRETATION of your motives.
What I'm suggesting is that HER INTERPRETATION doesn't matter. You do what you want, and you lead. What she thinks is irrelevant. I know that this might at first glance contradict what I said earlier about making people feel good about themselves, but it doesn't.
When I'm with a girl, I am sincerely interested in her and what she has to say. I don't look at the chick as a task to complete, but rather as an experience to savor. She has my complete and undivided attention.
But I will still behave in the way that makes me happy. If she's okay with that, fine. If she's not, then that's also fine. Every girl that I interact with has two choices... she can play the game by my rules, or she can move on. This doesn't make her a good person or a bad person. She is neither a sweetheart nor a bytch because she picked one choice over the other. Just like I do what makes me happy, she has the right to do what makes her happy.
So what I'm suggesting is do whatever it is that makes you happy, and don't care what she thinks about it. Guess what though, she WILL test you to see if you will actually stick to your guns, or if you're just playing the part of someone who does what he wants. Almost every girl tests me. I don't mind... it comes with the territory. But pass the test, and she will accept your rules without condition.
Hi guys,
Wow, sorry it took so long to respond guys, but I have literally been working around the clock. In fact, before I respond to some of your replies, let me share with you something interesting.
A few days ago, for a period of 7 days, I worked a total of 118 hours. In fact there was a 40 hour period where I worked straight with no sleep.
But here's the amazing thing, a few months ago I hired a new employee. He's on salary, and as part of his contract he is to work 40 hours a week. Now guess what - he worked almost as many hours as me, even though he wasn't getting paid one cent of overtime.
Plus I never once pushed him to work so many hours - he took the initiative. Heck, I was the one trying to get him to go home and get some sleep.
So the question is Why? Why did he work the equivalent of 3 full time jobs for the price of 1, and why was he so excited to do so?
The answer is that I treated him the same way that I treat the girls I date:
1) I Lead - A lot of business owners and managers seem to think that managing is about forcing your employees to do their job by coercion, threats, or other negative motivation. Or the exact opposite of begging the employee to do the job. With the first method, the employee is resentful and hates his job. With the second, he despises the employer and has no respect for him.
This is no different than how a lot of guys try to get girls to do what they want. They either try to use all sort of techniques on them, trick them, or pressure them. Or the complete opposite and behave as doormats. All of those relays to the chick your insecurity in your own attractiveness.
Instead, I shared with him a vision. I shared with him the vision of my company years from now, and with him as part of it. I shared my dreams, and he chose to a part of it. When he accepted the position with me, I could only offer him a fraction of what he was receiving in his past employment. So why did he work with me? I asked him this question. He said because I knew where I was going, and I had no doubt that I would get there. He wanted to be a part of it.
Same thing with girls. I know where I'm going, and I lead, and they want to be a part of my world.
2) I Made Him Feel Special - In every other e-mail that I send to him, or every time I speak with him, I continually exalt him. Like girls, at first he was a bit uncomfortable with the praise. But just like the girls I date, it wasn't long before he realized that I had no ulterior motive, and he relished in the feeling of appreciation. We're always making up new and better nicknames for each other. One day he's The Prophet and I'm the Man, a different day he is the Great One, and I'm the Awesome, etc.
This is how I behave with girls. I put them up. At first they may feel a bit awkward, but once they pass that initial awkwardness, they relish the feeling of truly being raised on a platform. And of course, the only natural thing to do is for them to raise me as well. I mean, the value of the praise is determined to a very great extent by whom it is that gave the praise. So it's no surprise that they in turn praise me as well.
Anyway, here are the responses to some of your posts...
Oscar Wilde wrote,
Further simplification of the concepts:
Absolute confidence in yourself (and zero concern for others perception of you)
There are no rules, only guidelines
Very good simplification, I like it.
es_mer8 wrote,
I've had nearly two weeks to fine craft my skill.
Es_mer8, with all due respect, it takes way more than two weeks to fine tune any skill, including picking up chicks. What you'll find is that there will be several waves of "aha" moments. One when you realize everything you've known about girls was wrong, another when you start implementing the attitude of being the prize, another when you move on to seduction aspects like speed seduction, mystery method, doc love, or whatever piques your fancy, another when you realize that you no longer need any of those methods, etc.
Everything else in your first post (points 1 - 6) I agree with. Very well written!
Kricket wrote,
His Quote:
"and after all this, I've come back to where I started from."
Except this time, you are a new person.
WOW. Very, very, true. Excellent observation!
Slickster wrote,
Well inorder to get others to like you, you have to like yourself... With that said there will still be people who won't like or be attracted to you. And thats okay.
Yup, that's it right there. Like yourself, and I mean TRULY like yourself. When you truly like yourself, you tend to like everyone else. And that will cause others to like and be attracted to you. Still, not everyone will be attracted to you, and that's okay. That doesn't mean that you're not attractive, and it does not mean that they are bad. Not everyone has to like or be attracted to you. Good post!
Ronin I wrote,
To really understand this I only need to look at my current situation. I am currently seeing two women - both of them pretty equal in just about every measurable way. But one of them has made herself VERY available to me while the other has proven to be a bit more work (over the past 3-4 weeks or so). In that time I have seen my IL in the "challenging" girl steadily increase while my IL in the other girl has remained steady or maybe declined a bit.
Let me ask you this question Ronin. The one that has made herself more available to you... What if the more time you spent with her, the more you realized that there is more and more to her? And that the more time you spent with her, the more amazing you felt?
I will grant you this much - challenge DOES work, assuming that you're comparing two average guys, neither of whom know how to share themselves with others to the full extent.
I can tell you from my statistics that I have yet to have any girl break up with me after we've went out on 3 dates. I'm sure given enough time that will change, but in the meantime I have not yet had a chick break up with me after we've went out 3 times.
Why? Because I am a drug. I've had a girl tell me rather poetically that when she is with others she feels like a bird with her wings clipped off, while with me I let her fly.
The bottom line is that, for me at least, the more time that I spend with a girl, the more she likes me. My average date is 4 hours, and that includes first dates.
So Ronin, if the girl who has made herself available to you in fact made you feel 2x, 3x, or 10x better than the girl who was a challenge - who would you pick?
Plus, I never said in my post that you should always make yourself available to the chick. The simple truth is that when you start realizing how attractive you truly are, others will realize it as well. And because of that you will not have enough time to spend exclusively with this girl - others, both male and female, will also be desiring of your time. And even if you do choose to spend a good amount of time with one girl, she will unconsciously realize that you are not doing so because you are desperate, but because you enjoy her company, and that will cause her to enjoy your company even more. It's a proven fact that when you find out that someone likes you, you tend to like them more (assuming there was some attraction in the first place).
I agree to a certain extent that it depends on your motives. But sometimes it's not your motives that matter but HER INTERPRETATION of your motives.
What I'm suggesting is that HER INTERPRETATION doesn't matter. You do what you want, and you lead. What she thinks is irrelevant. I know that this might at first glance contradict what I said earlier about making people feel good about themselves, but it doesn't.
When I'm with a girl, I am sincerely interested in her and what she has to say. I don't look at the chick as a task to complete, but rather as an experience to savor. She has my complete and undivided attention.
But I will still behave in the way that makes me happy. If she's okay with that, fine. If she's not, then that's also fine. Every girl that I interact with has two choices... she can play the game by my rules, or she can move on. This doesn't make her a good person or a bad person. She is neither a sweetheart nor a bytch because she picked one choice over the other. Just like I do what makes me happy, she has the right to do what makes her happy.
So what I'm suggesting is do whatever it is that makes you happy, and don't care what she thinks about it. Guess what though, she WILL test you to see if you will actually stick to your guns, or if you're just playing the part of someone who does what he wants. Almost every girl tests me. I don't mind... it comes with the territory. But pass the test, and she will accept your rules without condition.
Master of the Universe
Senior Don Juan
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2002
- Messages
- 396
- Reaction score
- 12
Replies to Posts II
Bonhomme wrote,
Long time no hear from!
Likewise my friend. I hope you've been well!
Waiting too long to call has definitely proved a bad move, *especially* if I kinoed the gal into an intense enough vibe. *Then* striking while the iron is hot, and calling even the very next day might be best! Sometimes the worst thing one can do is give her time to forget.
Yup, I'm in total agreement.
Also, I've found whether or not you buy stuff for her is entirely situational. If you're a well-to-do businessman, it's only proper to buy a grad-student date her ticket, or dinner, or whatever. Unless she's an extreme feminist. But I even dated a strongly feminist grad student who appreciated my picking up the tab.
I'll take that one step further. I dated an extreme feminist once, and she tried to give me her BS when I went to pay. I told her that I don't do dutch, she can either pay for the both of us, in which case I will say 'Thank You' or I will pay for the both of us, and she will say 'Thank You.' My tone of voice was calm but basically told her I'm not going to play along with her nonsense. Not only did she say Thank You, but after that she was one of the most compliant girls that I have ever dated. I think that those feminists are just looking for an even stronger male to take the lead. They're whole attitude is just one big test, for which they are searching for a guy to pass.
I disagree on *mystery*, though... provided it's not *overdone*. Disclosure is like *spice*. I find it best to dole out interesting and surprising tidbits of info in such a way as to keep her curious for more. Do not underestimate the attraction curiosity brings.
You see, I actually agree with you. The thing though, is that the average person has SOOO much that they can talk about themselves, and will still be very interesting and surprising. The problem is that guys don't think that they have anything in which the girl would be interested. Instead of slowly doling out info, why not have so much, and such an amazing variety, that no matter how much you have dolled out, you've still got plenty more.
In fact, what if every time you doled out something about yourself, then in fact you actually accumulate more to dole out. How is that possible? The more you share of yourself, the more you realize how much you have to share, and the better your delivery of what you share. It becomes a cycle of improvement every time.
I've been wondering what you've been up to. Drop me a message sometime.
I'd love to, but I don't have your e-mail. Drop me a PM with the e-mail, and I'll get in touch.
Mizer wrote,
I believe an aspiring DJ should at least try many of the suggestions expressed in the Bible to arrive at their own conclusion and method. Some techniques are helpful.
Not only do I agree with you, but I think that an aspiring DJ should try ALL of the suggestions in the Bible, the Layguide, Fast Seduction, and whatever else they can get their hands on. The point is though not to be attached to any of that stuff. Realize that it's all a big experiment, with the goal to be finding your own style - the one that produces results AND makes you happy.
In the end, it will be very rare that a guy will stick with any of the techniques, but the journey is just as important as the destination, if not more so.
Bonhomme wrote,
Long time no hear from!
Likewise my friend. I hope you've been well!
Waiting too long to call has definitely proved a bad move, *especially* if I kinoed the gal into an intense enough vibe. *Then* striking while the iron is hot, and calling even the very next day might be best! Sometimes the worst thing one can do is give her time to forget.
Yup, I'm in total agreement.
Also, I've found whether or not you buy stuff for her is entirely situational. If you're a well-to-do businessman, it's only proper to buy a grad-student date her ticket, or dinner, or whatever. Unless she's an extreme feminist. But I even dated a strongly feminist grad student who appreciated my picking up the tab.
I'll take that one step further. I dated an extreme feminist once, and she tried to give me her BS when I went to pay. I told her that I don't do dutch, she can either pay for the both of us, in which case I will say 'Thank You' or I will pay for the both of us, and she will say 'Thank You.' My tone of voice was calm but basically told her I'm not going to play along with her nonsense. Not only did she say Thank You, but after that she was one of the most compliant girls that I have ever dated. I think that those feminists are just looking for an even stronger male to take the lead. They're whole attitude is just one big test, for which they are searching for a guy to pass.
I disagree on *mystery*, though... provided it's not *overdone*. Disclosure is like *spice*. I find it best to dole out interesting and surprising tidbits of info in such a way as to keep her curious for more. Do not underestimate the attraction curiosity brings.
You see, I actually agree with you. The thing though, is that the average person has SOOO much that they can talk about themselves, and will still be very interesting and surprising. The problem is that guys don't think that they have anything in which the girl would be interested. Instead of slowly doling out info, why not have so much, and such an amazing variety, that no matter how much you have dolled out, you've still got plenty more.
In fact, what if every time you doled out something about yourself, then in fact you actually accumulate more to dole out. How is that possible? The more you share of yourself, the more you realize how much you have to share, and the better your delivery of what you share. It becomes a cycle of improvement every time.
I've been wondering what you've been up to. Drop me a message sometime.
I'd love to, but I don't have your e-mail. Drop me a PM with the e-mail, and I'll get in touch.
Mizer wrote,
I believe an aspiring DJ should at least try many of the suggestions expressed in the Bible to arrive at their own conclusion and method. Some techniques are helpful.
Not only do I agree with you, but I think that an aspiring DJ should try ALL of the suggestions in the Bible, the Layguide, Fast Seduction, and whatever else they can get their hands on. The point is though not to be attached to any of that stuff. Realize that it's all a big experiment, with the goal to be finding your own style - the one that produces results AND makes you happy.
In the end, it will be very rare that a guy will stick with any of the techniques, but the journey is just as important as the destination, if not more so.
Master of the Universe
Senior Don Juan
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2002
- Messages
- 396
- Reaction score
- 12
Replies to Posts III
es_mer8 wrote,
The more I read it, the more I disagree.
Hi es_mer8, let's find out why you disagree..
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1) Most of the methods are more about power and control than about mutual attraction.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why shouldn't we take control? If girls/women took control, mankind would be doomed. Most girls still believe in the tradition that men are to be the dominant ones when it comes to dating. Forget feminazis and the *****es that watch Lifetime, this is how it is in the real world. Some girls may be forward but many are not. Many of them still believe the man should go up to them. With control, the man should be but its not to say the women have no control and I don't think any of the Bible listings have an article where the man should have all say and the woman have no say at all.
First of all, if women took control, mankind would not be doomed. Don't think so highly of men... they're not any better or worse than women.
Secondly, there is a huge difference between a power or control play, and leading. I almost ALWAYS lead. Not only is there nothing wrong with leading, but that is the proper order of things.
What I'm referring to are when guys use a lot of techniques to manipulate a girl into tricking her into taking whatever action he wants. Read some of the posts by the gurus... They may be able to get the girl for one time of sex, but more than not they never are able to keep the girl. Why? Because the girl knows that she was manipulated, and the next day she will suffer from buyer's remorse.
Wrong. What most of the "gurus" have are stuff that works for them. Most people pretty much understand that its different girls, different rules.
How many "gurus" have you met in real life? Most of them give the term self-absorbed a new meaning. A lot of them really do believe that their way is the best (if not the only) way - and that you couldn't get a quality girl without using their method.
BS. Maybe not 5-7 days but not immediately. It takes the unpredictability factor out. Believe me, women like mystery. Why do you see so many romance novels about how some hot toned female walks down the road when this ripped indian shows up and gives her a great time? Granted, those things are mostly fantasy but they're fantasies by women. I'm not saying lurk in the shadows but you got to be unpredictable. Calling the night of or the next night of is horribly cliché. You may as well take her out to dinner, give her a rose, and have an interview/date. You may as well just empty your bank account on her and buy 20 teddy bears and put them on her bed the following day. I'll stop.
Haha.... do you really think waiting x number of days is crux of unpredictability? You want to throw some unpredictability her way - be completely straightforward. Have the balls to tell her EXACTLY what's on your mind. You think she has a nice butt - tell her. You want to make love to her - tell her. Now THAT is unpredictable, and you'll find that women will really appreciate it.
Saturday I was at a restaurant with some friends. Our waitress had one heck of a butt, and I told her so. Her reply - thank you. She appreciated being appreciated for her beauty, and she probably felt damn good about herself.
There are MANY ways to be unpredictable and keep a girl on her toes. Waiting x number of days is the equivalent of using a sling shot, when you've got rocket launchers, laser guns, and nuclear warheads in your arsenal.
BS. Lets be honest. 95% of all men are AFCs. Most girls probably don't even give their numbers out in general to most men. So I'm pretty sure a girl will remember who you are if you wait 4-6 days. If not, she's an idiot and probably isn't worth dating anyway.
Don't flatter yourself guy. 95% of all men are NOT AFCs. Most guys are neither AFC nor are they DJ. They're somewhere in between. Furthermore, many girls give their numbers to many guys, and unless you made one hell of an impression on her, she will forget.
But beyond that, WHY wait 4 - 6 days? If she's interested in you, she'll be interested if you call the next day. If she wasn't interested in you, then waiting 6 weeks isn't going to make a difference.
You're asking for the impossible here, bud. Nobody can be beyond anyone's "wildest imagination" unless their wildest imagination is boring as hell.
The simple fact is that most people live a pretty mundane life. It doesn't take much to be beyond a chick's "wildest imagination." She's expecting the guy to be as mundane as everyone else that she's come in contact with. It only takes a slight edge to be above that.
Face it, nobody is ever going to really shock anyone unless someone is ridiculously naive and easily impressed.
Hang with me or some of the advanced guys on this board sometime, and you can decide for yourself after the fact.
BS. It shows that you're willing to open your wallet open to a woman and she'll get the idea that spending money on her is to be expected. It is expected but not like that. Too many rich nerd AFCs open their wallets by doing all the stuff like roses and expensive dinners because they think the girls will like it. She likes the gifts and the money wall the AFC has set up for himself but she will not like the person for the person. Often times you see hot girls getting ass on the side from other men because she deep down is not attracted to material goods. Girls are attracted to material goods by the way they are raised.
Okay, we agree on this. If the guy does this stuff because he wants the girl to like him, then yeah, that's supplication. If he does it because he WANTS to do it, then it is not supplication. In this case, the motivation is the biggest factor. And guess what, most girls can tell the difference between a guy doing something to impress her, or because he wants to do so.
I enjoy taking an attractive girl to a nice restaurant and paying for it. I also enjoy an attractive girl spending a few hours preparing me a gourmet dinner. I enjoy both, I expect both, and I receive both.
Nobody pays for two meals because they want to.
Kind of a big generalization, don't you think?
Hotornot should never be an indicator of attractiveness.
Very true. I was using it to further illustrate my point. But you are correct.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So here's the truth, a girl will decide if she wants you or not VERY quickly, and that is determined by how attractive you are
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A girl told you the honest truth about it? She may have been right but she may not have been. Again, it varies from person to person. Some women, like some men, base their partners almost on looks only. Some almost by personality. You're almost contradicting with this one statement you claimed we should not make "A lot of the "gurus" seem to think that their way is the only way" I wouldn't pay much attention to what women say because for the most part, they themselves don't even know what they want in life. I can liken it to a time I went to Best Buy to get a game. When I went to get it, there were 20-30 others I wanted that were all good. I can liken this to each type of man and what a woman chooses. When that happens, I just get the one and then see if its good or not. I think this applies to women almost 100%*
* - nothing in life is ever 100%
Sorry bro, but I have no idea what you're talking about. Maybe it's just late and I'm not seeing the obvious... but what does what you're saying have to do with what you've quoted from my post?
es_mer8 wrote,
The more I read it, the more I disagree.
Hi es_mer8, let's find out why you disagree..
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1) Most of the methods are more about power and control than about mutual attraction.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why shouldn't we take control? If girls/women took control, mankind would be doomed. Most girls still believe in the tradition that men are to be the dominant ones when it comes to dating. Forget feminazis and the *****es that watch Lifetime, this is how it is in the real world. Some girls may be forward but many are not. Many of them still believe the man should go up to them. With control, the man should be but its not to say the women have no control and I don't think any of the Bible listings have an article where the man should have all say and the woman have no say at all.
First of all, if women took control, mankind would not be doomed. Don't think so highly of men... they're not any better or worse than women.
Secondly, there is a huge difference between a power or control play, and leading. I almost ALWAYS lead. Not only is there nothing wrong with leading, but that is the proper order of things.
What I'm referring to are when guys use a lot of techniques to manipulate a girl into tricking her into taking whatever action he wants. Read some of the posts by the gurus... They may be able to get the girl for one time of sex, but more than not they never are able to keep the girl. Why? Because the girl knows that she was manipulated, and the next day she will suffer from buyer's remorse.
Wrong. What most of the "gurus" have are stuff that works for them. Most people pretty much understand that its different girls, different rules.
How many "gurus" have you met in real life? Most of them give the term self-absorbed a new meaning. A lot of them really do believe that their way is the best (if not the only) way - and that you couldn't get a quality girl without using their method.
BS. Maybe not 5-7 days but not immediately. It takes the unpredictability factor out. Believe me, women like mystery. Why do you see so many romance novels about how some hot toned female walks down the road when this ripped indian shows up and gives her a great time? Granted, those things are mostly fantasy but they're fantasies by women. I'm not saying lurk in the shadows but you got to be unpredictable. Calling the night of or the next night of is horribly cliché. You may as well take her out to dinner, give her a rose, and have an interview/date. You may as well just empty your bank account on her and buy 20 teddy bears and put them on her bed the following day. I'll stop.
Haha.... do you really think waiting x number of days is crux of unpredictability? You want to throw some unpredictability her way - be completely straightforward. Have the balls to tell her EXACTLY what's on your mind. You think she has a nice butt - tell her. You want to make love to her - tell her. Now THAT is unpredictable, and you'll find that women will really appreciate it.
Saturday I was at a restaurant with some friends. Our waitress had one heck of a butt, and I told her so. Her reply - thank you. She appreciated being appreciated for her beauty, and she probably felt damn good about herself.
There are MANY ways to be unpredictable and keep a girl on her toes. Waiting x number of days is the equivalent of using a sling shot, when you've got rocket launchers, laser guns, and nuclear warheads in your arsenal.
BS. Lets be honest. 95% of all men are AFCs. Most girls probably don't even give their numbers out in general to most men. So I'm pretty sure a girl will remember who you are if you wait 4-6 days. If not, she's an idiot and probably isn't worth dating anyway.
Don't flatter yourself guy. 95% of all men are NOT AFCs. Most guys are neither AFC nor are they DJ. They're somewhere in between. Furthermore, many girls give their numbers to many guys, and unless you made one hell of an impression on her, she will forget.
But beyond that, WHY wait 4 - 6 days? If she's interested in you, she'll be interested if you call the next day. If she wasn't interested in you, then waiting 6 weeks isn't going to make a difference.
You're asking for the impossible here, bud. Nobody can be beyond anyone's "wildest imagination" unless their wildest imagination is boring as hell.
The simple fact is that most people live a pretty mundane life. It doesn't take much to be beyond a chick's "wildest imagination." She's expecting the guy to be as mundane as everyone else that she's come in contact with. It only takes a slight edge to be above that.
Face it, nobody is ever going to really shock anyone unless someone is ridiculously naive and easily impressed.
Hang with me or some of the advanced guys on this board sometime, and you can decide for yourself after the fact.
BS. It shows that you're willing to open your wallet open to a woman and she'll get the idea that spending money on her is to be expected. It is expected but not like that. Too many rich nerd AFCs open their wallets by doing all the stuff like roses and expensive dinners because they think the girls will like it. She likes the gifts and the money wall the AFC has set up for himself but she will not like the person for the person. Often times you see hot girls getting ass on the side from other men because she deep down is not attracted to material goods. Girls are attracted to material goods by the way they are raised.
Okay, we agree on this. If the guy does this stuff because he wants the girl to like him, then yeah, that's supplication. If he does it because he WANTS to do it, then it is not supplication. In this case, the motivation is the biggest factor. And guess what, most girls can tell the difference between a guy doing something to impress her, or because he wants to do so.
I enjoy taking an attractive girl to a nice restaurant and paying for it. I also enjoy an attractive girl spending a few hours preparing me a gourmet dinner. I enjoy both, I expect both, and I receive both.
Nobody pays for two meals because they want to.
Kind of a big generalization, don't you think?
Hotornot should never be an indicator of attractiveness.
Very true. I was using it to further illustrate my point. But you are correct.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So here's the truth, a girl will decide if she wants you or not VERY quickly, and that is determined by how attractive you are
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A girl told you the honest truth about it? She may have been right but she may not have been. Again, it varies from person to person. Some women, like some men, base their partners almost on looks only. Some almost by personality. You're almost contradicting with this one statement you claimed we should not make "A lot of the "gurus" seem to think that their way is the only way" I wouldn't pay much attention to what women say because for the most part, they themselves don't even know what they want in life. I can liken it to a time I went to Best Buy to get a game. When I went to get it, there were 20-30 others I wanted that were all good. I can liken this to each type of man and what a woman chooses. When that happens, I just get the one and then see if its good or not. I think this applies to women almost 100%*
* - nothing in life is ever 100%
Sorry bro, but I have no idea what you're talking about. Maybe it's just late and I'm not seeing the obvious... but what does what you're saying have to do with what you've quoted from my post?
Master of the Universe
Senior Don Juan
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2002
- Messages
- 396
- Reaction score
- 12
Replies to Posts IV
Es_mer8 wrote,
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My answer? I asked her to give me a kiss
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A lot of men do that. Most women have a name for them: creep asses. Boldness is good if you're a valuable enough prospect to a woman. Asking a woman to give you a kiss is not an easy task. With you're example, I could go up to women and ask if they give me a nice BJ. I'll probably get ignored most of the time, probably slapped, and in extreme cases, maced, but the success rate will be extremely low unless she's a slut that'd probably **** you right then and there had you asked her.
If you have the guts to walk up to a woman, and SINCERELY BELIEVE that she will give you a BJ when asking her, and your tone of voice and your non-verbal communication also support your sincere belief that you will get the BJ, then I will put my money that you will get the BJ.
The hard part is getting to the point where you truly believe that you will get the BJ by asking for it, and not just playing the part.
Also, you've got too many "probably's" in your post. Instead of talking about what you think will happen, go out there, try it out, and tell me what happened based on real life experience.
I've tried some crazy stuff, and I have yet to be slapped. I've opened girls with a kiss on the lips, I've told respectable women that I want to have an affair with them, and a hell of a lot more crazy stuff, and I have yet to receive any negative feedback anywhere close to resembling a slap. The simple truth is that if you don't come across as a sleaze or a weirdo, most women will appreciate that you made them feel sexy.
A key ingredient here is also playfulness. If you're playful, and comfortable in what you're saying, you can get away with murder.
I disagree with you for the most part it seems but I still respect what you said. We all have different methods. You may have matured. The kind of wild n' ****y attitude will work wonders for late teens/early 20s girls because they want a man that gives them a nice time in the sack. Women from mid 20s on will probably want a more deeper, involved, emotional relationship. Tastes will change.
Again, your replies are based on what you think will happen, not based on tested results. In fact most girls I date are in their late 20s to late 30s. Most are highly educated (doctors or lawyers). The truth is that THESE women enjoy my style the most, because it is so lively. They want excitement, and they want to feel sexy. I enjoy providing both, expecting nothing in return, and in turn get whatever I want.
Es_mer8, no offense or anything dude, but your post was WAY too critical. The only reason I can think why someone would defend a view so strongly is because they need to prove to themselves that what they're doing is right. You don't have to prove anything to me or anyone else bro. If what you're doing is producing the results that you like, and you are truly happy, then I am sincerely happy for you. Congratulations. If not, then maybe a change is in order...
Mr. Mystery wrote,
Because this is stuff people have to find out for themselves. It can't be told, and it shouldn't.
Very well said, and you probably are correct. Looks like I learned a new lesson. Thank you.
SexPDX wrote,
HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAA!!!!!
MotU, you are going to love this! I read this the first time and I didn't think you were talking about the CONCEPT of mystery but rather Mystery the *PUA*. What's even funnier is that when I read it I didn't think "WTF he talking about?" but it actually MADE SENSE thinking you meant HIM instead of the idea of being a mystery. Only coming back to this part of the post after having read some of the replies did I come back seeing it for what you really meant.
Is that fvcking hilarious or what?!!!
Hahahaha!!!! That is funny. I actually read through it again, substituting Mystery the PUA instead of the concept, and it actually still made sense. That is too funny
It's amazing how much I have learned and of what I have learned how little of it I use today. I don't regret it at all either, it was a great experience which I learned a lot from. But the thing that helped improve my game the most was realizing that I am already better than the stuff I was trying to get so good at. Also, had I never become involved with this stuff I would not have met many people with whom I know I am going to be lifelong friends.
Total agreement!
I am hanging out with Stormwolf this weekend, I am sure there will be many entertaining in-field stories to tell afterwards.
Hope you had fun!
Well guys, I've got to call it a night. I'll post more responses tomorrow.
Good night,
MotU
Es_mer8 wrote,
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My answer? I asked her to give me a kiss
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A lot of men do that. Most women have a name for them: creep asses. Boldness is good if you're a valuable enough prospect to a woman. Asking a woman to give you a kiss is not an easy task. With you're example, I could go up to women and ask if they give me a nice BJ. I'll probably get ignored most of the time, probably slapped, and in extreme cases, maced, but the success rate will be extremely low unless she's a slut that'd probably **** you right then and there had you asked her.
If you have the guts to walk up to a woman, and SINCERELY BELIEVE that she will give you a BJ when asking her, and your tone of voice and your non-verbal communication also support your sincere belief that you will get the BJ, then I will put my money that you will get the BJ.
The hard part is getting to the point where you truly believe that you will get the BJ by asking for it, and not just playing the part.
Also, you've got too many "probably's" in your post. Instead of talking about what you think will happen, go out there, try it out, and tell me what happened based on real life experience.
I've tried some crazy stuff, and I have yet to be slapped. I've opened girls with a kiss on the lips, I've told respectable women that I want to have an affair with them, and a hell of a lot more crazy stuff, and I have yet to receive any negative feedback anywhere close to resembling a slap. The simple truth is that if you don't come across as a sleaze or a weirdo, most women will appreciate that you made them feel sexy.
A key ingredient here is also playfulness. If you're playful, and comfortable in what you're saying, you can get away with murder.
I disagree with you for the most part it seems but I still respect what you said. We all have different methods. You may have matured. The kind of wild n' ****y attitude will work wonders for late teens/early 20s girls because they want a man that gives them a nice time in the sack. Women from mid 20s on will probably want a more deeper, involved, emotional relationship. Tastes will change.
Again, your replies are based on what you think will happen, not based on tested results. In fact most girls I date are in their late 20s to late 30s. Most are highly educated (doctors or lawyers). The truth is that THESE women enjoy my style the most, because it is so lively. They want excitement, and they want to feel sexy. I enjoy providing both, expecting nothing in return, and in turn get whatever I want.
Es_mer8, no offense or anything dude, but your post was WAY too critical. The only reason I can think why someone would defend a view so strongly is because they need to prove to themselves that what they're doing is right. You don't have to prove anything to me or anyone else bro. If what you're doing is producing the results that you like, and you are truly happy, then I am sincerely happy for you. Congratulations. If not, then maybe a change is in order...
Mr. Mystery wrote,
Because this is stuff people have to find out for themselves. It can't be told, and it shouldn't.
Very well said, and you probably are correct. Looks like I learned a new lesson. Thank you.
SexPDX wrote,
HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAA!!!!!
MotU, you are going to love this! I read this the first time and I didn't think you were talking about the CONCEPT of mystery but rather Mystery the *PUA*. What's even funnier is that when I read it I didn't think "WTF he talking about?" but it actually MADE SENSE thinking you meant HIM instead of the idea of being a mystery. Only coming back to this part of the post after having read some of the replies did I come back seeing it for what you really meant.
Is that fvcking hilarious or what?!!!
Hahahaha!!!! That is funny. I actually read through it again, substituting Mystery the PUA instead of the concept, and it actually still made sense. That is too funny
It's amazing how much I have learned and of what I have learned how little of it I use today. I don't regret it at all either, it was a great experience which I learned a lot from. But the thing that helped improve my game the most was realizing that I am already better than the stuff I was trying to get so good at. Also, had I never become involved with this stuff I would not have met many people with whom I know I am going to be lifelong friends.
Total agreement!
I am hanging out with Stormwolf this weekend, I am sure there will be many entertaining in-field stories to tell afterwards.
Hope you had fun!
Well guys, I've got to call it a night. I'll post more responses tomorrow.
Good night,
MotU
Destini9
New Member
She Smiles
Bravo, Master....Bravo
Like a breath of fresh air.
Hugs, blitz ;-)
Bravo, Master....Bravo
Like a breath of fresh air.
Hugs, blitz ;-)
Pursuivant
Don Juan
After reading the first half of MOTU's post, i was about to say "What a lame post".
The second half on the other hand, was very useful stuff.
I don't read this site as often as a year ago. I got what i was looking for following the DJ rules time ago already.
And those caveman rules have gave me all the foundation of my new way of living.
True that attraction is more important than any DJ technique (at least for ONSs and STRs).
But all of these new guys reading this posts are looking for a formula to solve that HUGE problem that is to have a normal social life.
When you tell them to forget about the basics of the DJ's then you are causing more harm than good.
The DJ rules work as magic (you can get shot down 99% of the times, so it means that with every 100 girls you try, you will get what you want one time. As i said, it works like magic).
And with months of practice i think most of those desperate guys (as i used to be) will get some pvssy. And with few more months, they will be able to smooth their game, make of all the DJ basics an unconcious behaviour when dealing with chicks, and later on, realize that all what you wrote in your post was nothing but truth.
Well, it's friday and my girlfriend (a truly 9) is out of town. I'll go clubing by myself, try to get a hottie interested in me, and go back home alone (a bit of AFC doesn't harm).
Take care guys!
The ex-Pursuivant.
PS. sorry for the low rate i gave to your wise post.
The second half on the other hand, was very useful stuff.
I don't read this site as often as a year ago. I got what i was looking for following the DJ rules time ago already.
And those caveman rules have gave me all the foundation of my new way of living.
True that attraction is more important than any DJ technique (at least for ONSs and STRs).
But all of these new guys reading this posts are looking for a formula to solve that HUGE problem that is to have a normal social life.
When you tell them to forget about the basics of the DJ's then you are causing more harm than good.
The DJ rules work as magic (you can get shot down 99% of the times, so it means that with every 100 girls you try, you will get what you want one time. As i said, it works like magic).
And with months of practice i think most of those desperate guys (as i used to be) will get some pvssy. And with few more months, they will be able to smooth their game, make of all the DJ basics an unconcious behaviour when dealing with chicks, and later on, realize that all what you wrote in your post was nothing but truth.
Well, it's friday and my girlfriend (a truly 9) is out of town. I'll go clubing by myself, try to get a hottie interested in me, and go back home alone (a bit of AFC doesn't harm).
Take care guys!
The ex-Pursuivant.
PS. sorry for the low rate i gave to your wise post.
A very common phrase used in jazz improvisation is:
"Learn the changes then forget them."
This essentially means that one has to spend time internalizing the rules of theory (what scales to play over what chords, where the chord tones are, how the chords resolve, etc.) in order to surpass the "thinking" aspect and ascend to the "expression" aspect. Great jazz improvisers break the rules all the time, but believe me, they have an intimate understanding of these rules.
I believe this relates to this thread in an important way. A very beginning improviser, like a beginning DJ, needs a structure to modify and build from or he'll start out feeling lost and confused. With experience, he learns HOW to break the rules. Believe me, you can hear the difference between a veteran improviser breaking the rules, and a beginner breaking the rules.
-Oleo
"Learn the changes then forget them."
This essentially means that one has to spend time internalizing the rules of theory (what scales to play over what chords, where the chord tones are, how the chords resolve, etc.) in order to surpass the "thinking" aspect and ascend to the "expression" aspect. Great jazz improvisers break the rules all the time, but believe me, they have an intimate understanding of these rules.
I believe this relates to this thread in an important way. A very beginning improviser, like a beginning DJ, needs a structure to modify and build from or he'll start out feeling lost and confused. With experience, he learns HOW to break the rules. Believe me, you can hear the difference between a veteran improviser breaking the rules, and a beginner breaking the rules.
-Oleo
Doppler4000
Senior Don Juan
MOTU- This deserves a bump anyways, but I wanted to give you props for it as well. After a long road from AFC-dom I'm getting to the point where I can use some gut feelings and instincts when it comes to "breaking the rules" when I think it's best. I agree with you. For instance, I met someone Friday night and there was a great connection there. I'll probably try to call today rather than wait until later in the week, mainly because I'm more interested in continuing that momentum than worrying about some 5-7 day rule. The instincts are saying remember to use a measured response, but strike while the iron's hot.
loveprefect
Senior Don Juan
you are masta
you are really the MASTER...
you view the whole thing from a different perspective and thats very true...
well done!
you are really the MASTER...
you view the whole thing from a different perspective and thats very true...
well done!Microphone Fiend
Master Don Juan
after MotU's first reply thread did anyone else get an image of Jerry MacGiuire?
This is agreat post that should be read by everyone on this site once they hit the "i am the ****" point.
This clears up a lot of smoke that you've been puffing into your head through this site.
One thing, you should not read this for first 3 months, it will just make u angy. You should go out there and learn this by heart, then it will make sense.
I myself had gone through the Jerk stage, and then realized that it wasnt my nature, my nature it the one of a real man.
MOTU, i woudnt agree with the "hell with all of this" part. You should be using some of mystery/phone calls/challange tips to Multiply her interest level. If she is at 0, it will remain at 0, but if she is not quite sure if she is interested, it can do wonders.
This clears up a lot of smoke that you've been puffing into your head through this site.
One thing, you should not read this for first 3 months, it will just make u angy. You should go out there and learn this by heart, then it will make sense.
I myself had gone through the Jerk stage, and then realized that it wasnt my nature, my nature it the one of a real man.
MOTU, i woudnt agree with the "hell with all of this" part. You should be using some of mystery/phone calls/challange tips to Multiply her interest level. If she is at 0, it will remain at 0, but if she is not quite sure if she is interested, it can do wonders.
After studying so much on this forum for quite a while now, I have to say that this thread is probably the finest of them all.
I have become weary of the lies being peddled by con men selling their wares to the poor needy souls who frequent sites like this. NLPs, patterns, "eliciting values", $peed $eduction (very lucrative but wholly impotent)... and all these foolish, qualitatively subjective terminologies like "AFC", "HB9", "kino", etc. - it's all a sad attempt at making a science out of something that at best only ever was an art.
For me, the best this site can boast are the articles that teach guys what NOT to do to ruin their chances, rather than what to positively do to radically improve them. Obvious stuff that many guys overlook: good grooming, good dress sense, fitness, not talking about oneself all the time, no bad manners, ability to LISTEN to what a chick is saying (and avoid stupid questions . comments), no negative revelations about oneself, no complaining, no stalking, no impatience, no hastiness, no lying (yes, some posters are opposed to deception in seduction), no displays of neediness or desperation, and so on.
I do not believe it is possible to seduce ANY woman you want, notwithstanding all the grandiose claims of cretins like Ross Jefferies, who have vested interests in furthering such falsehoods. I do believe, however, it is possible to increase one's chances of stealing the heart of the object of one's desire, starting by rejecting all the "quick fixes" these liars have gotten rich on, and continuing by avoiding all the negative stuff I mentioned that would debar you from the audition phase, as it were. I think anyone with a modicum of sense, who has studied this discipline long enough, will understand that attractive women find natural MANLINESS attractive, not the caricatured crap the mass media industry would have us believe. It's an air, an unspoken attitude, an ostensible "je ne sais quoi", in sum, an unmistakable manliness exuding from everything we do. Be man enough to be a man - that's the ticket...
I have become weary of the lies being peddled by con men selling their wares to the poor needy souls who frequent sites like this. NLPs, patterns, "eliciting values", $peed $eduction (very lucrative but wholly impotent)... and all these foolish, qualitatively subjective terminologies like "AFC", "HB9", "kino", etc. - it's all a sad attempt at making a science out of something that at best only ever was an art.
For me, the best this site can boast are the articles that teach guys what NOT to do to ruin their chances, rather than what to positively do to radically improve them. Obvious stuff that many guys overlook: good grooming, good dress sense, fitness, not talking about oneself all the time, no bad manners, ability to LISTEN to what a chick is saying (and avoid stupid questions . comments), no negative revelations about oneself, no complaining, no stalking, no impatience, no hastiness, no lying (yes, some posters are opposed to deception in seduction), no displays of neediness or desperation, and so on.
I do not believe it is possible to seduce ANY woman you want, notwithstanding all the grandiose claims of cretins like Ross Jefferies, who have vested interests in furthering such falsehoods. I do believe, however, it is possible to increase one's chances of stealing the heart of the object of one's desire, starting by rejecting all the "quick fixes" these liars have gotten rich on, and continuing by avoiding all the negative stuff I mentioned that would debar you from the audition phase, as it were. I think anyone with a modicum of sense, who has studied this discipline long enough, will understand that attractive women find natural MANLINESS attractive, not the caricatured crap the mass media industry would have us believe. It's an air, an unspoken attitude, an ostensible "je ne sais quoi", in sum, an unmistakable manliness exuding from everything we do. Be man enough to be a man - that's the ticket...
MoTU, as with many of your advice posts, I feel a great sense of eagnerness with inspiration. This is an awesome post. As I read it, I felt that I was inside this aura, which opened me up to a myriad of insight and awareness. Just beautiful.
Thank you.
Thank you.
