My (current) thoughts on seduction

Eric Smith

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I never caught his response to me:

How many "gurus" have you met in real life? Most of them give the term self-absorbed a new meaning. A lot of them really do believe that their way is the best (if not the only) way - and that you couldn't get a quality girl without using their method.
Who does that? I am curious.

95% of all men are NOT AFCs. Most guys are neither AFC nor are they DJ. They're somewhere in between.
AFC means average and most of them are chumps. Few of them can actually get a pair and go up to a woman and talk to them without being introduced by a friend or something. Most of them lack the balls and this is the truth except for the real men and they are the ones that get the 8-10s that most men dream about.

Furthermore, many girls give their numbers to many guys, and unless you made one hell of an impression on her, she will forget.
Interesting. I think that too many men are afraid of getting a girl's number. However I could be wrong.

Hang with me or some of the advanced guys on this board sometime, and you can decide for yourself after the fact.
I seriously would like to do that next summer. I would like to DJ with some midwestern people sometime.

If you have the guts to walk up to a woman, and SINCERELY BELIEVE that she will give you a BJ when asking her, and your tone of voice and your non-verbal communication also support your sincere belief that you will get the BJ, then I will put my money that you will get the BJ.
Interesting, I will try that sometime and get back to you on that.

Es_mer8, no offense or anything dude, but your post was WAY too critical.
Perhaps it was. That was mostly inexperience talking but now I'm more neutral with what you have said. I don't agree with all of it but I'm starting to see more of what you are talking about. Some interesting perspectives. Maybe later down the road I will know and feel exactly what you are talking about.
 

xelent

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Very well written, but I have to say that the theory of the DJ is very much in line with what you say.

DJ theory is 'all inclusive', that you dont just allow selfish intent to be your only motive. That in essence to be a true DJ you are required to improve your life in its totality with everybody that you come into contact with.

Yes I agree that this is no pure mantra ie:

'I must, I must, I must improve my bust'
(one for the ladies there maybe)

Of course you have to be natural, yourself and comfortable.

Learning techniques are as bad as cheap pick up lines.

But for the really nervous individual these techniques & ideas are perhaps a good starting block for them overcoming their insecurities. If they screw up well then it will merely take them a little longer to reach that goal.

I think all the things you say are very true and I guess to a large extent I am mirroring your ideas. I guess I see the DJ theory as a method that can improve peoples lifves. Those people who are frankly experiencing a great deal of lonliness and heartbreak. Those people that for good reasons are so frustrated with there lives that they do need to break out of their strait jacket.

'I AM THE PRIZE' comment

This is perhaps a confidence booster to certain individuals that need to create a reality for themselves. We all know its b0LL0cks once we have improved, but sometimes individuals need to say that to themselves to overcome fear.

We are lucky as I am guessing most of us that have posted on this post are to a lesser or larger extent deeply confident, intelligent and outgoing people. Therefore we perhaps feel that certain rules that are mentioned are irrelevantand often confusing. We rely on our gut feeling and grace social situations with style and ease.

I did very much enjoy your comments about including everybody that rolls past your world (including the ugly ones). That mantra can not be re-itterated enough times on this site. Coz if you think DJing is merely about getting laid (which you didnt MOTU), you have got it all wrong.

YOU ARE NOT A DJ IN LOVE WITH HIMSELF

YOU THE DJ IS SOMEONE IN LOVE WITH THE WORLD:D
 

The Dominated1

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Five Stars!

Magic Post!

Isn't it funny that a noob and an experienced guy can read the same thing but get a totally different meaning out of it!

I would say that this is the best post I have read on the forum - but for a newbie it could be the worst.
 

Oxide

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This is THE post to read if you are confused why you keep running into walls


Life is MUCH MUCH simpler than you think.. embrace that.
 

TonyTheTigerOI

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Regarding "Seduction Techniques"

Universe, PDX, and others – have you discarded anything? If I were to hand you a simple test, where for every correct answer and idea regarding seduction you wrote you were paid 100 dollars, I believe you guys would make quite a profit! If I showed flashcard of girls and their body language in relation to a man, I bet you could tell me if they were interested.

Having been at this site for a few years, I have been through the cycle of harsh failure, researching specific techniques, applying those tools, mildly succeeding, assimilating the tools that worked into my character, and truly succeeding many times. None of these cycles has been as explicitly defined as the current:

After my first relationship (half a year) came to a crashing halt, I immediately attempted to rebound and meet new women to help me forget the last. After I struggled, finding the confidence to make one (disastrous) approach over the course of a three hour evening, I realized I was rusty. I promised myself I would make 1,000 approaches as fast as possible in order to make up for time lost. I hoped that by 100 I would find moderate success, by 300 I would be as good as I was just prior to entering the relationship, by 500 I would be noticeably better than I was in my ‘prime,’ and by 1,000 I would be one of the best PUAs in the Western New York State area, regardless of age, income, or special circumstance.

I surfed the net, spoke with a few PUA friends, and scribbled out a note card of all of the most important techniques in seduction. Things I did with little thought only half a year earlier, now required a constant, tangible reminder.

At first, I would re-read my note card in the men’s room moments before a hesitant, half hearted approach. At a lul in the conversation I would remember “Kino!” and work to implement it during the rest of the conversation. I would realize that 15 minutes had passed and I was still in the first set of average looking girls Id opened that night, and I wanted to work the room and be a “Challenge!” I would see some gorgeous girls, take a deep breath, contemplate running away, and realize “Confidence!”

Six weeks and 172 approaches later I am approaching very well. I see hot girls and I “Confidently” walk up. I “Charismatically” enter the set, inviting everyone around me into a fun, interesting conversation. I “Charmingly” display my interest towards a target and isolate. When girls leave themselves open, I tease them in a “****y, yet funny” way, without even thinking. I do not formally employ patterns, but I do choose my words carefully in order to “Stimulate” and “Create Emotion.”

I am a soccer goalkeeper on the state team. If someone throws a soccer ball at me, I catch it without thinking. If I see a girl, I apply a plethora of techniques without even thinking. I am willing to wager that if I were to wing for you, I could notice hundreds of specific incidents over the course of a night where you employed seduction tools. I do not believe you have disregarded them… I think you have assimilated them.
 

TonyTheTigerOI

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regarding "Mystery" "Calling" and the relevance of this post

Mystery is largely misinterpreted on this forum. It is my understanding that women should never wonder, “Does he like me?” Rather, they should dream, “What will he do next?” The former interpretation yields no success with women – it could actually hinder you: people fear what they do not know. The latter results in a great deal of success: people will seek your company out of curiosity and the promise of adventure!

Who waits 10 days to call? I used to… but it is entirely counterproductive. If you are a natural DJ you will seduce many women at a time – if you wait to call them they will be led to believe you are not interested. People are naturally affectionate towards those who appreciate and reciprocate their interest. By calling them when you have free time, possibly only two or three days after receiving the number, you diffuse many of a girls anti-player defenses.

Mr. Mystery is right – this post does not belong in a general discussion or the bible. It is a separate entity in and of itself. If a masters forum existed, Universe’s words would be stickied.
 

DJStudent

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Hmm, What a great post. I might have not posted thousands of replies or my advices but I came to the same conclusion.

What I find this site useful is for seeing what's on the side. I mean I use to be so scare around girls that I didn't know what to do. This site allows me to experience what it is like being on the other side. Dating different girls every week even having more dates than I can handle. You guys get the idea. But doing that didn't make me happy, wasn't really me. I really can't stand hurting girls that was so into me.

Funny thing is that once you changed you can't stop, girls will be attracted to you no matter what. How to handle your relationship with them is a completely different story that this site has not focused on. You know how girls say "I hope we can be friends after this"? I believe that it's something guys and girls should work at. It's always nice to have a good friend even if you two are ex's.

Anyway, I'm glad that I'm not the only one that felt this way. Everytime I come on this site I always thought, maybe I'm different in someways, now I don't feel so different.
 

DJBen

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Wow. Havnt been here in a long time. Looks like theres a few people left with a good idea of what it's all about.

The problem with 95% of the people here is that they read something and think 'YEAH! that solves all my problems'. Then they click the next thread and think the same - despite it contradicting what they read earlier.

Get out to clubs and pubs, make approaches. Work through that fear, and learn to exist in an approach environment. When you're comfortable with that, you're ahead of a hell of a lot of males. Most males fall under these few catagories:

Overly suggestive prick who will blow his chances by being too forward.

Someone that is clearly pretending to have 'game'. As was said previously - women arent stupid, they can see more than you realise.

60% of the guys there not approaching cause they havnt got the balls to.
----------------------------------------------------
If you get knocked back, move on.

My own personal side note:

The only problems you get from being good at picking up women.. hm:

Quite often [if you live in a rough area] you'll get people start fights with you. It's worth noting that if you take your woman down town, you're more likely to get into fights - be prepared to protect your girl. Personally, I dont roll down town with girls - more trouble than fun.

Solution:

Roll down to clubs with some mates and keep fairly close to them unless you decide you're safe and you're not about to get ****kicked by a gang of losers.

Thats the only downside - That last bit doesnt apply to this thread but it's how it goes in the area I'm in - especially being 18-24. You'll find yourself being a target - I just want to open your eyes to that ;) If you're anything like me, you'd like the occasional rumble anyway ;)

Get off the site and get pulling, end of. Good thread.
 

October

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Bump. This is all so good...but it does take a little background information and experience to understand.
 

Create self-fulfilling prophecies. Always assume the positive. Assume she likes you. Assume she wants to talk to you. Assume she wants to go out with you. When you think positive, positive things happen.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

Marlimus

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WARNING!!!!

Experience is the ultimate teacher, however, and each player must use what works for him. The thing is, maybe, just maybe you've reached a level where you don't need to play certain games anymore

But don't go telling up and coming DJ's and recovering AFC's that they can call the very next day when they haven't mastered the basics. This article should be restricted material and should only be read by those who have passed a certain stage. The rules really are just guidelines, and i have broken these rules with sucess in the past only because I understood the deeper principles underlying them and knew how to break the rule but uphold the principle. In the beginning, I observed them religiously, and chances are, you did too, so do not deny that adherence to the traditional rules is a vital part of the development process.

But for novices and intermediates, let them learn the rules until such time that they understand the deeper meaning behind the rules to break them with success. It's the same with law. In order to understand the spirit of the law and the underlying aspiration to justice, one must first study and master the letter of the law. When the lawyer (Don Juan) becomes a Supreme court Judge (Master Don Juan) only then he can authoritatively debunk, criticize and overrule conventional judicial theory after extensive experience, which I believe you possess.

Many of the people reading your article right now are nowhere near that level, and your article will only confuse them, they are not ready for it. Your article is potentially subversive and heretical although it contains some truth, because to the beginner, it appears to forgive AFC behavior, although I know that is not your intention.

Beginners should not be allowed to read this article, especially when they might be struggling for the first time to break out of the AFC mentality.

Marlimus
 

bbestar

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I completely disagree with the first part of the post...

I know my dad... He is to me a man with a back bone of steel, his way or the highway, and the highway is no where to be seen.

Without power and control, when my dad first met my mom...

I would not be here...

THe man needs to be in control and in power... Look at hulk hogan, he maybe a great wrestler and very strong but look at his family he loves them but... they are out of control, and wild..

I don't care about mutal attraction... if your a person who has no vision and a goal... your not goin anywhere.

Master of the Universe.. you know what.. your not.. for real.




When I first read your post I was all unsure of all this dj mentality stuff then a realized I was hearing a beeping sound in the background.beep beep beep..I was like what the fck is that...

oh its the bs alarm..
 

izza

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I agree with this post. Too much emphasis on mystery, supplication, who is the prize - who isn't the prize. These things are important to teach AFCs, but they have limits.

Be a mystery = (to an AFC) stop trying to prove your attractiveness with golden recitations of your history and of your virtues

Stop supplicating = (to an AFC) stop trying to buy the love of a good woman.

You are the prize = (to an AFC) you are a good person, too. Be certain you actually LIKE the girl you want.

Turning an AFC into a DJ is like those scales at the doctor's office. In order to find your correct weight, you have to push a weight too far to the left, then too far to the right, until you find balance. In the same way, when an AFC first learns about the way of the Don Juan, he must first take his original ideas too far, before scaling them back. The AFC must discover within himself his own self-worth, and then discover within himself what he thinks is fun. But a method that doesn't suit who you are is just another way of trying to buy the love of a good woman.

That's what makes this post so useful: counterbalance.

I think people should start reconsidering what a DJ is. Being a DJ is being someone you like, who approaches the women he wants. You cannot teach a class on how to laugh, you cannot teach a class on how to have fun, but that is what a DJ must do. A DJ must have fun (neg hits can be fun, so can compliments), and a DJ must ask for what he wants. There is no method for that. How can someone say there is a method for that? Success with inauthentic methods, memorized from an internet website, will not make you happy. It only makes you feel worse, since it underlines that who you REALLY are isn't good enough to get women or sex. Simple as that.

Great tip bro, bible-worthy.

--Izza
 

BrotherAP

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bump

Reading this post was like looking in the mirror. I have arrived at almost all of the same conclusions. Especially

after all this, I've come back to where I started from.

Do I regret the time, effort, and money invested learning all those other methods. Absolutely not! I had to learn the hard way how to interact with girls in order to realize that I already knew more than I thought I did, and to acquire the right attitude.



Amen, MOTU
 

Bonhomme

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Sort of like a Zen thing

Where you go through the stages of enlightenment to get right back to the beginning... but with the wisdom experience brings.

Good to see this thread "back on the radar."
 

arlanda

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This makes sense. But it doesn't mean you are the same as you were back then, it just confirms that what really matters is the way you see yourself and your mindset about life, women and dating.
 

toddC

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amzing post and a great read!

This should be in the Bible, bye.
 

I_Only_Live_Once

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It's so simple because it is. It's not as complex as people make it out to be. Just be comfortable with who you are and express it to the other person. Be the confident, charismatic person you've always wanted to become.
 

ozrain

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I'd have to say this is one of the only posts in this forum that i have any sort of respect for

forget about most of the crap on this forum like "wait how many days before i call, buying them dinner is supplication" and countless millions of little theories, we are MEN, we do whatever the FUVK we want that makes us feel good, thats what life is all about.

There are no rules in the dating game, every single person that you will encounter is different. Understand the game, understand your situation, and please.. do no listen to most the "gurus" and "know it all" on this forum
 

Swoop

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I am slowly reaching the same conclusion as MotU. It doesn't matter what techniques or rules you follow. Two people can use the same line but the one who succeeds is the one who is real and the one who fails is the one who pretends. And it also goes back to what Pook said, DJ isn't a about memorizing a set of techniques or routine but a mindset. I think Sr. Fingers put it best when he said If you want to get the woman of your dreams you must become the man of your dreams.

Let the change begin.

-- Swoop
 

What happens, IN HER MIND, is that she comes to see you as WORTHLESS simply because she hasn't had to INVEST anything in you in order to get you or to keep you.

You were an interesting diversion while she had nothing else to do. But now that someone a little more valuable has come along, someone who expects her to treat him very well, she'll have no problem at all dropping you or demoting you to lowly "friendship" status.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

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