My (current) thoughts on seduction

[CLOONEY]

MOTU, I really enjoy your posts, you have a lot of experience, and I have followed all of your stories and theories. However just a few things, encase some of the newbies misunderstood.

I dont think you should compliment or pay all the time, even if you feel like it, otherwise it will become natural and "your girl" will grow to expect it. Thus, it will become "normal" and wont be "fun" anymore. Also neghits are a good thing, not to bring the girl down to your level but they are good to show a sense of humor. In my honest opinoin, NOBODY feels like a 10/10 NOBODY!! (I was given a 9.9 on hotornot, the highest rating anyone can aquire, and I have been offered numerous modelling contracts, I even have girls approaching me in the street, however this does not make me at all happy). Even if someone seems to think they are a 10/10 it is only on the surface, as deep down arrogance is simply insecurity. EVERYBODY has insecurities, and this is a natural part of life.

MOTU you seem to have a good outlook on life, not only making others happy but this inturn making you happy. If everyone was like this the world would be a happy place.

I read this the other day and found it inspirational.

"It is not how much we have, but how much we enjoy, that makes happiness." Charles Spurgeon.

It is good to see that you take enjoyement from so many things in life, and dont simply look for material things like so many of the brainwashed western world look for in the present day to bring happiness. If you truly enjoy many things in life, you dont need much to be happy.

Read my signiture carefully, it doesnt mean life is a game, in that you should be playing games with girls all the time, but that everything is just to be enjoyed like a game, and to not take everything so seriously. After all "it is only a game".

 

[Nosferatu]

Originally posted by Master of the Universe
Hola DJs!


Basically, here's my gripe...

1) Most of the methods are more about power and control than about mutual attraction.

````Motu, wouldn't you say that a man who is perceived as powerful and in control is more attractive to a woman than a man who relies on the hope of "mutual attraction"?````

2) A lot of the "gurus" seem to think that their way is the only way. Anything else does not work.

3) They are way too complicated. There are literally hundreds of different pieces of techniques to supposedly pick up a chick, and most of those contradict each other. Getting girls should not be on the level of designing a nuclear warhead.

````True, the strategies can be distilled down to several basic principals.````

4) Too many rules - most of these systems have all those rules to follow. The only true rule in my opinion is that you produce results, even if you accomplish this by doing everything against the so-called rules.

````Many of these so-called "rules" are actually general behavioral guidelines that can demonstrably help a man to appear more attractive to women in general. They have certainly worked for me. Maybe you're talking about SS, in which case I would agree with you.````

5) Many of the rules only work in theory. They don't work in the real world.

```I have found that different "rules", as you call them, work for different types of women. Just like anything in life, there can never be a set of rules or techniques that work with all people or situations.````

Now, here are my current thoughts on a lot of stuff that DJs/PUAs believe.

<SNIP>

DAYS BEFORE CALLING

Forget about waiting 7 days to call. Forget about waiting 5 days, forget about 3 days, forget about 1 day. So when do you call? When you want and when you have time. Believe me guys, if a girl is interested in you, she will not lose interest if you call her the next day, the day after, or a few days later. But I've found that the longer you wait past a few days, that's when her interest starts dropping. Why? Because "out of sight, out of mind." Now, if you're unable to call because you sincerely are busy, then that's understandable. But don't play those foolish games of waiting so many days before calling. All this will do will have her put up the player shield, and have her play her games. Then it becomes a competition of will. And that's sad.

```In one way I agree, in another not.
I am absolutely convinced that maintaining a moderate amount of scarcity elevates you in her eyes. She will tend to lose respect for a man who phones her too soon and too often. A slight air of detachment tells her that you have a life and that you are not desperate for her.

On the other hand, you are absolutely right when you say "out of sight, out of mind". Her interest will DEFINITELY drop if you wait too long.````

CHALLENGE

The hell with challenge. Waiting so many days to call, canceling dates, pretending your busy when you truly are not - WTF? Believe me guys, she'll see through it. And even if she doesn't, playing hard to get will only work with a small minority of girls.

````I must disagree here, MOTU. Canceling dates is bogus, but portraying that you have a busy life and are not desperate to see her is VERY attractive to most women. They LOVE wondering and discussing with their friends "I wonder if he likes me or not". This seems to be universal for young and old. They love the guessing game. Of course, if you take this to the extreme (like any technique) you will blow it.````

Instead, ask yourself 'for what purpose?' For what purpose is challenge? The biggest purpose is to convey value. People want something of value, and being a challenge denotes some value, assuming the girl will go along with your games.

````Done in appropriate moderation, she will not perceive it as a game but rather, as exciting drama. Again, intelligent moderation is key here.````

But what would happen if instead of setting challenges for her, you truly become a person that everyone wants to associate with. A person who's got his shyt together, people who respect him, friends, the most amazing life. Guess what, she will want to be part of your life. And that motivation will be 10x stronger than any challenge. Actually the fact is that you will have many girls interested in you, and THAT will be the greatest challenge for her.

````True in general, but one of the hallmarks of a well-liked person is one who is slightly detached and not dependent on others.````

MYSTERY

Why does mystery work? Because it allows the chick to fill in the blanks. And instead of seeing the guy as banal, which he probably is, she reads more than there is. The hope is by the time she finally sees the real guy, she will have invested so much that she will not want to leave. How sad.

Instead of using mystery to cover our deficiencies, let's build our character, personality, and life in such a way that it is better than her wildest imagination can ever conjure. Take pride in who you are, both your successes and failures, your strengths and your weaknesses. Let's share with the world who we are, and be proud of that!

````Disagree. Maintaining some mystery and refraining from divulging too much about yourself is essential to success with women. One of the very worst things you can do is to blurt out everything about yourself. After you are finished indulging, she will become bored with you and will lose respect. Mystery should not be created to "cover our deficiencies", but rather to appeal to the universal (for men and for women) trait of being attracted to people who we can't quite figure out. Trust me, once you are "figured out", you are history.````

Continued in next post...

 

[Nosferatu]

Re: Re: My (current) thoughts on seduction

Continued from last post...

YOU ARE NOT THE PRIZE

Yup, read that again. You are NOT the prize, and neither is she the prize. Then who the hell is the prize? Both of you are prizes. I don't know which posts are worse, the ones where the guy is ranting about how the girl is such an amazing person and he is not worthy of being in her shadow, or the ones where the guys is screaming that all girls are bytches and should be honored to have a minute of his time.

Both mindsets reek of insecurity. The bottom line is that she is not better than you, and you are not better than her. You are both equal. You are both wonderful. You are both amazing. Let the whole world see themselves as weak and insecure. Instead, put both yourself AND the girl on a pedestal. You are both "10s."

````You seem to focus on the EXTREMES of the DJ way. Any DJ technique will reek of insecurity when taken to the extreme. The idea is not to put yourself on a pedastal above her but instead to enhance your attractiveness to her. It's been said before - "Attraction is not a choice". There are aspects of masculinity that are universally attractive, and I think that it is a good idea to amplify them without being phony. I see nothing wrong with thinking of yourself as the prize. Not to place your inherent worth over hers, but rather to walk about in your world secure in the knowkledge that you have worth and you have something of value to offer any woman who you are attracted to.````

SUPPLICATION

Buying dinner or flowers for a girl is supplication. Complimenting a girl is supplication. Telling a girl you like her is supplication -- bullshyt!

````Very, very, VERY dangerous. MOST men (non-players...just nice, respectful men like most of us are) tend to do this stuff way too early and way too frequently. Scarcity is powerful and attractive, both in your presence with her and with flowers and gifts. If you over-do this, she WILL lose respect for you. And above all, most men tend to tell her he likes her WAY, WAY too early. Women hate that. They want the drama of guessing for a while. We as men must learn when it is appropriate to give her gifts, and there is nothing wrong with that after a certain amount of time has elapsed. IF YOU FEEL THAT YOU HAVE TO GIVE HER GIFTS OR ELSE SHE WON'T BE ATTRACTED TO YOU, YOU ARE MAKING YOURSELF INTO A PATHETIC LOSER WHO NEEDS TO BUY HER AFFECTION. It is much better to earn her affection by earning her respect. Restraint is once again called for here.````

I'll tell you this, if you want to buy flowers for a girl, then do so. If you want to pay for the date, then do so. If you want to compliment her, then do so. None of this is supplication! If the girl likes you, she'll like you after you give her flowers or paying for the date. If she doesn't like you, then buying her dinner or flowers will not make her like you any more than before.

````See my paragraph above...```

Supplication is changing yourself to give the girl the appearance that you are someone you are not, just to get something out of her (this includes her liking you). I'm not saying that you shouldn't change -- because you either change or you die. Instead what I am saying is all this on how to behave to get the chick to like you is junk.

````All too often, supplication is BEHAVING EXACTLY AS WHO YOU ARE, not as someone you are not. We have learned all our lives to be polite (a fine quality), and to give gifts and to generally supplicate to win the approval of women. Avoidance of supplication is critical to maintaining her respect for you. Again, intelligent, rational thought applied to the techniques presented in this forum should be adequate enough to allow a man to learn the difference between kindness and suplication. Balance is always the key.````

Now, guess what. If you pay for the date, and the chick doesn't sleep with you, then you have no right to get upset. Why? Because what you do, you should do so because it makes you happy, regardless of the chick's reactions or actions. You paid for dinner because you wanted to. Period. You're not doing anything for her because you want something from her and hoping that you can "bribe" her, but rather because you want to do so.

````Agree. I submit that in general a man should not buy her dinner for the first several dates (maybe even 10 dates or more). It is critically important for us to separate ourselves from every other Tom, ****, & Harry out there. Tom, ****, and Harry all cart her right over to the resaurant on the first or second date. Yawn...````

COMPLIMENTS

The worst thing that I did for my game was when I stopped complimenting girls. And the reason I complimented wasn't because of the results that I would get, but rather because complimenting people makes me happy. Simple as that!

````What is the payoff to you when you complement people? Why does this make you happy? It is an admirable trait, to be sure, but it must be used carefully and sparingly when dealing with an ATTRACTIVE woman. She hears it all the time, and again, we need to separate ourselves from the masses. I repeat, SHE HEARS IT ALL THE TIME. I assure you that she will be very intrigued by a guy who has a lot "on the ball" and yet does not complement her. If you "play" with her or "spar" with her verbally, you will go much farther with her than just another complement.```````

The problem that I find with the way most guys compliment, is that they don't honestly believe that they are a prize. And the compliment looks more like idol worship, than being raising someone to your level.

```Agree.```

Instead, I see myself as being on a pedestal. And my goal is to have everyone I come in contact with, including ugly chicks and guys, raise to my level. So yes, I do put girls on a pedestal. Very few girls actually believe that they are 10s. This is especially true of those girls that neg-hits are designed to work on. Think about it. If they truly are a 10, then how the hell is a neg-hit supposed to lower that? It doesn't. The reason they work is because the chicks know deep inside that this whole thing is just a facade, and they're pretending to be a 10, when they know inside that they're less than the average person.

````Well, I think there are more chicks out there than you might think who are basic attention wh0res and who despise the very men who shower attention on them. It is their drug of choice, giving them a fleeting feeling of power. On the other hand, there are many ugly or average girls out there who would be lifted up by a sincere complement, and I think it is a very admirable thing for you to lift her up in this way.

A well-placed neg hit will expose a TRUE 10 and expose her as having weaknesses. But more importantly, A NEG HIT EARNS HER RESPECT BECAUSE IT SHOWS HER THAT YOU ARE NOT AFRAID OF HER. This is an important distinction. It seems that many people on this forum have difficulty grasping the concept of neg hits. Your willingness to neg hit a TRUE 10 elevates you enormously in her eyes and in the eyes of any onlookers. Neg hits are sometimes necessary as "attitude adjusters".

I like the fact that you include men in your desire to raise people up. I find that virtually all the DJ techniques work well in friendships with men. I apply them universally in one form or another and I find that I am much more respected than before I knew about these DJ methods of dealing with people.````

So you want her to like you? Simple. Instead of throwing a neg-hit to bring her down from her false pedestal, raise her on a real pedestal. Let her see that she truly is a 10. This is the essence of charm. Raise people to new heights... raise them to your level. See the magic, the wonder, the beauty in every person you come across. Let them realize the potential inside them.

````Will she even give you the time of day if she is on a false pedestal? I think not. But by knocking her off you can show her that the pedastal she places herself on is not necessary and is counter-productive to effective, healthy human relations. You can't help her if she has no respect for you. There is no "beauty and magic" in arrogance. It is ugly, and when cultivated usually results in deep regret when she reaches the age when the plastic surgeons can do no more.````

And don't reserve this for HBs, only. Instead, make everyone you meet feel like they are special. Let me ask you this question. When was the last time you flirted with a 70 year old woman? No, I didn't say sleep with a 70 year old woman, but just flirt with her, and make her feel like a 20 year old vixen.

If you haven't, then you don't know the amazing rush of making someone feel better about themselves than they have in years. Imagine the experience of seeing someone's eyes light up, their whole soul just singing. And besides, those grandmothers are the most fun, and you will be shocked at what comes out of their mouths - they have absolutely no inhibition.

````Generally true and an admirable trait. Will work with old and not-so-old ladies, most men, and children. Not so with a woman you are attracted to until you establish yourself as a real man who respects himself. The game is different with a prospective mate or girlfiend, my friend. It is just the natural way of courtship. You are obviously a genuinely friendly and thoughtful person, as evidenced in many of your posts. But I have seen you blow several opportunities due to what I perceive as "Nice Guy-ness".````

Continued next post...

 

[Nosferatu]

Re: Re: Re: My (current) thoughts on seduction

Continued...

I remember not too long ago, I was at a lounge and there was this senior citizen sitting there by herself. Most of her family was on the dance floor or talking with other people. I went and started to flirt with her, trying to convince her to fly away with me to Europe so we could elope and make passionate love. Obviously she knew that I was joking around. But if only you could see the happiness on her face. Guess what? All the other girls in the club saw it, and they came up to me that evening, not vice-versa. [/B][/QUOTE] in general.

````It's great what happened with that elderly lady, and I'm sure that your gregarious, friendly personality is very attractive to many people, both male and female. I'm not surprised that other girls in the club came up to you. However, let's say you single one out and are attracted to her. THE DYNAMIC MUST NECESSARILY CHANGE. You attracted her initially, but by showering her with gifts, attention, and dinners, you can easily become taken for granted and perceived as weak, idealistic, and therefore unattractive.

I have recently had the opportunity to put what I learned in this forum to the test. I met a girl in late January and applied many of the techniques discussed here. I applied them intelligently, and in a balanced way, and they served me well. She perceives me as a true man, one who is not intimidated by her, and one who displays strength, ambition, and confidence (all her words). She is a very attractive woman (I tend not to use numbers) and she has a strong personality. She was shocked to discover who I really am, and she said to me several times while shaking her head in disbelief, "I finally met my match". The beauty of all this is that although I used much of the knowledge that I obtained here, it was very apparent to me that I WAS STILL BEING MYSELF. But instead of being an over-polite wuss, I WAS PRESENTING MY SELF WITHOUT APOLOGY FOR BEING AND THINKING LIKE A MAN. I think this is the most important lesson of all in this forum...TO NEVER BE APOLOGETIC FOR BEING A MAN AND ACTING BOLDLY TO GET WHAT I WANT. This attitude is guaranteed to get her heart pitter-pattering. It goes against what mama always taught you, but there are a lot of posts addressing why that is.

MOTU, I fear that this post will appear as an attack against you, but I assure you that I am not out to refute everything you say. I just saw a lot of the newbies saying "Yeah, way to go, MOTU", and I wanted to let them know that there is much validity to many of the lessons taught here. I do disagree with some of your current theories to one degree or another, but I do so respectfully and I genuinely apologize if it appears overly confrontational. I just wanted to present another point of view.

Nosferatu

 

[DJ de Florida]

Re: Part II

Originally posted by Master of the Universe


Hola DJs!

A few days ago, one of the guys on this board who has my phone # called me up and asked me what is the status of the Advanced DJ Boot Camp. As some of you may remember, I had posted that I would have it together and start up in the beginning of May.
.
.
.
Well, I've got to get back to work. Thanks for taking the time to read this folks, and no, MotU hasn't been smoking any pharmaceuticals, but this is how I feel. If you agree or disagree with me, I would be interested in what you have to say.

Master of the Universe

Translation:

1) Be charming.
2) Be fun.
3) Be confident

Master of the Universe

Just busting your chops. All the 'rules' and 'guidelines' put forth by the authors seem to be ways for a guy to appear charming, fun, and confident. But there is a difference in appearing to be charming, fun, and confident and being charming, fun, and confident......

 

[FlyGuy]

MOTU, I won't agree or disagree with your post... what you have posted is what works for you personally, what you have come to realize after a lot of work.

What I think you fail to grasp is that you had to go through a metamorphosis to reach your current level. You say that you ended up right back where you started... I disagree. How could you be the same person as before? You spent countless hours learning theory and techniques, and you field tested them on 3000+ women! I suggest a different conclusion - you probably internalized a LOT of things that worked for you personally.

Also, a lot of the DJ principles are designed to be a little extreme because they have to be! You have to be extreme sometimes to break someone out of a behavior pattern that has been learned over many years.

 

[Mizer]

Well said, Fly.



Mizer

 

[JustDoItAlways]

Hey MOTU, good to see you around again.

And really excellent post.

Things change. Men (not women) change. People grow. Expect to change again.

But one thing about your post bothered me somewhat. You did talk about being proud about your strengths and weaknesses.

If I may say, your strongest strength is in the seduction, romance area. There isn't a guy who's posted on this board or other boards who can top you in that regard.

I may have read it wrong but your post almost sounded like you have discounted that (at least somewhat.)

Continue to maximize your strengths and do not discount that women like to be seduced and romanced. There are other important pieces to the puzzle. But you have one really big piece down pat.

Don't fix what doesn't need fixing. But otherwise, great post.

Talk to you later.

 

[Don-Wan Kenobi]

My thoughts on each of these things.

MOTU, it's amazing how things come full circle. It does feel like starting over again, where you began.

Originally posted by Master of the Universe

1) Most of the methods are more about power and control than about mutual attraction.

DeepBlue posted something a while back on attraction versus obligation. A lot of these tips and tricks are geared towards men who want to talk women into having sex with them because they feel there's nothing inherently attractive about them that would draw a woman's attention in the first place.

Here's my least favorite tip:

When asking her out, don't ask her IF she wants to go out with you but say something like "Let me pick you up at five," as to suggest that you already KNEW the answer was YES.

In sales, you want to assume that your customer is going to make the purchase and use language that presupposes she has already made up her mind; thus, creating obligation.

So, let's say the customer starts having second thoughts about purchasing the widget. You use a variety of tactics (foot in the door, counteroffers, door in the face, etc.) to make her feel obligated and then you close the deal. After she purchases the widget, she'll have to convince herself she did the right thing even if at the back of her mind she regrets her decision (this is called cognitive dissonance).

So, basically you can manipulate a customer to purchase a widget out of feelings of obligation. You close the deal. She's holding the widget, you're holding the money, and everyone's happy. She takes her widget home and starts wishing she never purchased it, tough luck. Transaction finished. End of relationship...

This doesn't translate well in approaching women:

You con a girl out of her number and come across as too slick... she'll blow you off.

You hook up with a semi-drunken girl at a party and she feels embarrassed, she'll never talk to you again.

You ignore a woman when she's trying to tell you that she's not interested... she'll become frustrated and lose respect for you.

The only way you'll have a true, back and forth relationship is if SHE wants to be with you. If she's ATTRACTED to you and not OBLIGATED to be with you... ask a girl "Would you like to go out with me for coffee?" You give up a ton of control... or do you?

2) A lot of the "gurus" seem to think that their way is the only way. Anything else does not work.

A lot of gurus are scamming people out of their money, but who can blame them? We all like easy money. Hell, therapists stay in business and most of them just collect money and listen to people whine all day long.

3) They are way too complicated. There are literally hundreds of different pieces of techniques to supposedly pick up a chick, and most of those contradict each other. Getting girls should not be on the level of designing a nuclear warhead.

I love the thirteen-step method... not sure who it belongs to but one of these pick-up fellows brags of a thirteen-step success plan.

The reason this person has a following is because people with little success want to believe there is a secret, some magic formula that everyone WITH success is following to a T while they remain oblivious. To an extent, when I stress skills over attitude (I've noted a split between skills-oriented posts and self-improvement-slash-attitude oriented posts) I'm sort of buying into the philosophy that my success will triple with some sort of illuminating discovery... oh, I'm supposed to wait SIX days and not FIVE before calling!!! Stupid me!

I'm losing hope.

Just be a Man?

4) Too many rules

This is kind of funny. I asked the best athlete I know how to slam dunk a basket ball and he told me "Practice." I asked the greatest musician I have met to tell me how to perfect sight reading and she said just do lots of it. Someone asked me how to graduate high school and college with a perfect *** and then it struck me... I didn't have a multi-step answer for him; no such algorithm existed, not to my knowlege. So I said "Study."

Study? Perhaps I should have sold him a six hundred dollar course on Speed Testing or I may have offered him a weekend seminar where I watch him study for an exam and inject criticism as I see fit.

5) Many of the rules only work in theory. They don't work in the real world.

I certainly haven't tested every rule I have encountered so I have no opinion here. I will say that when I started reading GM ("method" available on ASF advocating all sorts of sexual overtones and blatant innuendoes... basically, being an obnoxious jerk and injecting the occasional "just kidding" when she goes to slap you) I thought to myself that I would never FORCE this sort of behavior on a girl unless she was extremely receptive from the start and showing signs of wanting to go there herself.


DAYS BEFORE CALLING

Yeah, this remains the greatest controversy in the dating and seduction arena. I usually call within three or four days but not on a friday or saturday. I threw this rule out entirely before and then called a girl the same day I got her number (matter of convenience). She blew me off and my friends criticized the hell out of me for... "Making myself appear desperate." But I wasn't desperate, I just had an idea that required us making plans far in advance and I wanted to call her. "But you looked desperate." I don't really care how I looked. It was convenient for me to call her when I did. "But you looked desperate."

Don't call the same day you get the number.


CHALLENGE

I used to say challenge this and challenge that.

I'm not gonna tell you that was THEN, and now I'm this enlightened sage who looks back on THEN and chuckles.

No, but I started thinking... WHERE DOES this all-important Challenge come from???

THEORY I: I have a lot going on in my life right now. If you want to see me, I'm not easy to come by.

If this is true, this is true. If this ISN'T true then what do you gain by pretending it's true? I'd rather spend quality time with a girl and have her know I've got nothing else to do than spend a friday night alone in my apartment with some chick wondering how many days it'll take for me to call her.

THEORY II: You're gonna have to chase me and not the other way around.

I don't like this. I think if I like a girl and I know her enough to understand why I like her, then I should be honest about how I feel. Why play hot and cold? So she won't dump me? Fvck, if that's the sort of girl she'll be then I won't waste my time with her in the first place. So many guys (present company included) will lose track of standards if it means dating, kissing, or getting naked with a pretty girl. They don' t want to lose the pretty girl so they play these games to "challenge" her. WHY not spend time getting to know the girl instead and then decide if she is worth your time?

MYSTERY

I'm spider man.

Here's one that sounds dumb. Mystery? I used to say mystery this and mystery that, but I'm discovering that women like men, period. Women are always gonna need men just as men need women. Why try and keep them guessing about you? So they fill in the blanks with ideas that you're the man of their dreams? I think women are attracted to you by virtue of the fact that you are an attractive man... If you are an attractive man, you WANT her to know that. If you seem like you're hiding something, she probably won't want to be with you even if you pass the initial test of attraction.

YOU ARE NOT THE PRIZE

Why can't people meet half-way? The guy's the prize, the girl's the prize, bla bla bla... If you are an UG and you only approach women that could model, you will always feel that you are trying for the unattainable. What do you get from that? The feeling that your life is incomplete without the approval of some model prize chick? Or how about if you're intelligent and you only approach women who are less intelligent and easily manipulated. What do you get out of that? Power? Control over other human beings?

SUPPLICATION

There are some guys who are whipped. They are pathetic. Don't be that guy unless you only feel comfortable in relationships where someone else is controling you.

That being said...

I think saying an occasional "I'm sorry" when you mean it, or an "I'm glad you're here," or "You smell nice" when you are being sincere... well, it makes you HUMAN. It acknowledges that you are human and that you appreciate and respect other human beings... even ones with vaginas.

Guys who say they never apologize... I know a couple. Guys who always have to have things THEIR way or NO way. Insecure freaks. So what if women think they're "Tough." They'll never be happy and neither will the woman they're with.

COMPLIMENTS

Only when sincere.

I was kissing and getting into heavy petting with a REALLY HOT girl who thought she was REALLY UGLY (***I do not recommend low self esteem chicks and I have stopped going for them***). I kept telling her how "beautiful" she was and how hard she made me in a futile attempt to get her to have sex with me. I thought if I could play on her insecurity and stroke her ego I'd get laid (I'm really not as antisocial as this makes me out to be - my conscience was beating me up over this...). Well, instead of getting laid, she got really defensive and kicked me out of her dormroom... d'oh. I'm sort of glad that's what happened in retrospect... I'm less evil, I guess.

A week later, I was talking to this girl I had all-but given up on and out of the blue gave her some sweet, sincere compliment... BWAM! She kissed ME.

 

[Don-Wan Kenobi]

ATTRACTION, SEDUCTION, AND LOOKS

Hot or Not? should be called Insecure or What?.

Before casting the first stone, I decided to put my picture up there and noticed two things.

Inconsistency: Just as many ONES as TENS. Different people like different things. I like redheads and Asian girls (not exclusively, but I've met attractive women who fit those descriptions) whereas my best friend wouldn't TOUCH either of them... he only dates blondes. The women (more likely the men) who rated me had difference of opinions.

Personality: No personality rating? What the hell? Wait, there's nothing to judge me on. Charisma (as MOTU put it) is half the ballgame when it comes to that first impression. I know some ugly dudes who know how to make a good first impression. Although my Insecure or What? scores were generally high sevens and low eights I probably would be having SO much success with women and wouldn't have visited Insecure or What? in the first place if my personality was a high sevens and low eights.

BOLDNESS IS MAGICAL

Honest and direct - this combination has served me better than any of the information I've "read about."

Enuff said, time for bed.

DWK

 

[Sisko]

Yeah, before I was so cought up in rules and all, but now that
I actually started meeting girls, the only rules to folow are to have fun, not care abouth the rules, and be bold.

That means doing some of afc stuff, but it really isn't afc if you have a right mindset.

Yes, the mindset is the most important thing, and that is what you deffinatly did change MOTU.

 

[Master of the Universe]

Hey guys,

There were some excellent responses to this thread, and I'll be posting replies to many of them later this evening.

There was one theme that was brought up by several posters though, and I would like to address that right now.

Basically, it was mentioned that while I thought that I had come back to who I was before, the truth of the matter was that in fact I have changed.

This is very true.

I thought about this (in fact SexPDX mentioned this to me in private before), and this is very true. Both in end results and in attitude I have changed.

A year and a half ago, I could count the number of dates I had total in my life on one hand. I've had more dates in a week since then, than I had in my life. Same thing with girls I've kissed. Again, I could count the number in one hand. I've kissed more girls in a single evening than I had prior in my life.

But beyond the tangible results, the greatest gain has definitely been the change in attitude. Prior to studying seduction, I pretty much thought every guy was a player, with the exception of me. I didn't really care, because girls were the last thing on my mind - I had WAY too many other goals on my plate. But it never occured to me that one day I would actually be a player. I remember reading an e-book a year or so before this site, on how to PU girls. And I thought to myself how anyone who could pull this stuff off would be the ultimate pimp - as it turned out, the stuff in that book was actually pretty basic.

Ad while I know that I've still got more to learn (you never stop learning and improving), I guess there's a difference now. Before I was learning techniques, methods, ideas. Now it's more about attitude.

I say the same things I used to say to girls in the past, but now the results are way different. The same thing that used to get a girl to LJBF me, now makes her want me more. It's definitely the atittude, but there would have been no way to acquire that attitude without learning lots of techniques first, techniques which had to be discarded once they were no longer needed.

So I guess Kricket said it very well when I mentioned that I've came back to where I started,

"Except this time, you are a new person."

Maybe I'll post a brief bio of my last year and a half transition from a non-DJ, to an experienced DJ, to a natural DJ, if anyone is interested.

I think this is where I am right now, at the natural stage. For me this is when I no longer think of what to say, how to behave, etc. I just am. Interacting with and attracting girls becomes as natural as eating or sleeping. I guess in NLP it would be called the unconsious competance level.

So for all the DJs and DJs in training out there, I strongly urge you to try everything. Try every single method, no matter how strange they may appear, or how dumb you feel doing them. Yeah, most of them may not be anywhere as effective as advertised, but the truth is that by doing everything you will end up developing your own way, that which feels natural for you, makes you feel good about yourself, and produces results.

Once you're there, discard everything you've learned, and congratulate yourself. It took me a year and a half to get there, 3,000 approaches, hundreds of hours of reading material, hundreds and hundreds of hours in the field, thousands spent on courses and seminars, etc.... and modesty prevents me from saying that I am a very quick learner. So regardless of where you are, keep at it (just make sure you actually implement in the real world... not just reading and theorizing).

Well, my friends, thank you for your feedback, comments, and suggestions. I'll be posting later with replies to many of your replies.

Master of the Universe

 

[crackhead]

great stuff MOTU, excellent post

just curious, how old are you?

and "Maybe I'll post a brief bio of my last year and a half transition from a non-DJ, to an experienced DJ, to a natural DJ, if anyone is interested."

I would be interested in reading that, definitely... especially since you said that a year and a half ago you couldnt count the number of girls you had ever kissed on one hand

 

[FlyGuy]

Yeah, definitley post a bio. We need more "real life" examples of people who went from basically AFC to DJ.

 

[Vronski]

Good post, but it's not advice and it's not for noobs. This is your way of saying that you've achieved the final level of being a DJ.

Sure, meeting girls should not be as complex as a nuclear warhead. But seduction becomes simple and intuitive only after you've read all the manuals and toyed around with 3000+ different warheads. Then it's easy.

For a noob it's better to stick to the rules. Then seduction will become intuitive with practice.

 

[stuartSan]

Great post.

Don Juan Tips.

 

[aBAzLLnA]

ill keep this short...

could this be a metamorphasis of the DJ board?

real provative post, made me really question what i was doing and the purpose of what i was doing.

seems like the board is alive again, but back with better ideas, philosophies and guidelines.

wow, this post surprised the hell outta me. haha, im laughing out loud because the thought of what was thought of as the DJ mindset is being revised and changing...

~ivan

 

[Ofus]

5 stars

 

[Nocturnal]

MOTU, I see a revolution in the DJ world. I didn't know it would be happening when I wrote it, but take a look at http://www.sosuave.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=244894#post244894

 

[Capitol39]

Great post. I agree with everything you said.

However, I think it's a good idea for beginning DJs to read and follow the advice of the Bible. I think it's a good idea for them not to compliment too often, and to wait a few days before calling, etc., etc. so that they learn the basics.

What you wrote concerns more experienced DJs.

Again though, great post.