Most common flaws in the way a budding DJ thinks and acts

[Slickster]

The new or wannabe Don Juan makes a lot of mistakes which really hold him back in the early stages.

- He chooses targets.
- He see's a girl he wants and focuses his "game" on HER.
- He spends time thinking about how he can "get" her, impress her, what to say, how to act.
- He thinks about his potential girls even when they aren't around.
- He walks into a crowded room and immediately looks for targets.
- He places himself in a position where he is always chasing.
- He asks questions like "How do I game this type of woman?"
- He asks questions like "She doesn't seem interested, what should I do?"
- He has trouble maintaining a conversation when a pretty girl walks by.
- He does a terrible job to cover up the fact that he's checking her out.
- He is a different guy when women are around.
- He is fun and loose when he's hanging with his buddies but serious and reserved when in the company of hot women.
- He asks women out on dates with "Do you want to ________?" instead of suggesting that they should join him on something he already had planned.
- He ignores the ugly girls in the room.
- He doesn't realize that the hot girl will like him more if her ugly friends want him too.
- He lets women disrespect him for the perceived ultimate goal of sex.
- He wastes time thinking about women who aren't showing strong signs of interest.
- He fails to gauge her interest properly.
- He fails to realize which girls are best suited for him based on his looks and attitude.
- He wants to date 9's and 10's right away.
- Rather than date a 6 or 7 and learn the craft he stays single holding out for that one special hottie.
- He wastes his time theorizing, planning and "learning" how to get that one hot girl and ends up learning very little waiting for her to come along.
- He meets a girl he likes and feels like he has to make a move before she gets away.
- He gauges the success of a date by how much action (sex) he got.
- He makes a move that get's shot down and keeps putting on more pressure.
- On the phone he talks and waits until she wants to end the call.
- On a date he lingers and waits until she wants to end the date.
- He fails to see the value in the slow play.
- He spends too much time talking on the phone with female friends.
- He thinks about his ex gf's
- He wonders how to get them back.
- He rudely "NEXTs" girls who show low interest to protect his frail ego.
- He fails to realize that they sometimes come around again later on in life and things might be different.
- He has risky unprotected sex.
- He wants to spin lots of plates but gets himself stuck in a relationship and ends up cheating.
- He blames women, marriage, society, and her mental issues, for his problems with women.
- He feels like he is competing with other guys for her attention.
- He worries about his age.
- He lies to sell himself.
- He has no balls.
- He fails to be fun and funny.
- He spends more time on the DJ Discussion forum than he does reading the articles or the DJ Bible.
- He logs onto the Don Juan Discussion forum everyday.
- He thinks and overanalyzes about the "game".
- He fails to keep things simple.

 

[backbreaker]

so basically he's an epic failure

 

[Boilermaker]

great.

most of it accurately describes me.

why don't you do the budding DJ another favor and also explain how you avoid these pitfalls, one by one?


*Edit: Actually now that I think of it, putting a mere "DO NOT" in front of every point by itself is quite instructive.

Fantastic...!

 

[Buddha_Mind]

Well we are human, perfection is a tough thing and I've never seen it.

But I do appreciate this list, it reflects on some things I need to improve upon.

Here's a few more:
- He chooses not to approach and let's fear control him.
- He lets one rejection or failed relationship bet he keystone by which he pacifies all future attempts.
- His focus is getting laid.
- He wastes time thinking about *her* (who flakes on him every time, or has a boyfriend or sh!tty relationship on the rocks)
- He makes decisions in his life for women over his own forwards movement.
- He forgets that he is his own center, not her moon

 

[Zarky]

I agree with pretty much everything in the OP.

Especially the concept of hunting vs. fishing. Don't hunt a specific woman, but rather fish for women in general. Throw your bait in, let the fish nibble, and then when you draw them close to the boat club 'em on the head.

When you fish, you don't really care which specific fish you get, because they're essentially all the same. The smallest fish you throw back, but if the fish is big enough, you'll take it. And hopefully you'll have at least a few in your boat.

 

[Slickster]

The idea for this list came from my work. We do accident analysis to determine all the negative factors in a chain of events that led to the incident.

Essentially learning thru your mistakes just by becoming aware of what you are doing wrong.

This can be very difficult to accept when you have to admit your own mistakes. When it is done in an open and objective way though, it really works and it feels better when you realize that you are using your mistakes to teach others.

 

[backbreaker]

Remember, perfect is boring. There is a saying in AA, we strive for spiritual progress not spiritual perfection.


The fact that, someone may do something wrong, or doesn't have it "all figured out" doesn't make them not DJ material.


IMHO, a person crosses the barrier and breaks through the plain, when they simply decide not to put women on pedal stools any longer. Every guy who registered with this site, came here, becuase they put women before themselves, thought women were prizes to be won and every other stereotype out there, I don't have to go through them all. The second a guy makes that conscious decision to say you know what, screw that, I'm going to do things my way, and no you aren't any better than I am, and honestly isn't just saying it, means it, is when a man becomes a DJ. All the other stuff honing in on a new skill set

A guy who has just been interverted his entire life and doesn't really speak out, you can't pigeon hole the guy b saying becuase he has trouble speaking to a pretty women, or any woman for that matter that he still is not a DJ. The fact that he is attempting to talk to the woman he desires and is willing to risk rejection, is the end game in this situation, not if he is stuttering or not. That will come in time.

 

[st_99]

IMHO, a person crosses the barrier and breaks through the plain, when they simply decide not to put women on pedal stools any longer.

This pretty much sums it up.

 

[backbreaker]

You know what's funny, and I didn't even think about how much this site changed me. Just in general with dealing with women, 10 years ago, if we were sitting at a group of girls, and guys, I would try to do something cute or to agree with them to get them to like me. Now, for instance a few weeks ago there was this slightly overweight, not fat fat, but overweight, maybe 160, 5'5 and her friends (who were, actually cute) at a party with us, and she was trying to tell everyone about who to diet and how she gets all her nutrients from pills and she rallied off like 10 different pills she takes. I respectfully tried to explain to hear that you can't go to chili's and eat 2 entrees and some cheese dip, and gop home and pop 10 pills and think you are just as "healthy" as the guy who sat home and ate smoked salmon, a side of green beans, brown rice, an orange and some skim milk. Of course her fat ass got her panties in a sweaty ass bunch, becuase her mom was a nurse, she thought she was the know all be all of health.

Or like 2 days ago, the day before thanksgiving, I guess that's 3 days ago, we decided we were going to have a small thanksgiving get together at our place this year instead of pissing of both my familes lol. Anyway, she, my fiancee, got the idea in her head somewhere, that becuase she was cooking all day on thursday, it was going to prevent me from being hungry on wednesday. um.. no. I worked on wednesday. i orked my ass off on wednesday actually and instead of sucking it up, I told her look, I worked 10 hours today, the least you can do is make sure i have something to eat when i'm done I know you are going to be cooking tomorrow, and i'm going to help you but still, a brotha gotta eat lol.

Now yes, I could have got my black ass up and went and got something to eat, but that's not the point. it wasn't even about the damn food per say. SHE could have gotten up and gotten food. She decided she wanted to be lazy that day. Why should I work all day after coming from the gym and then make sure we have something to eat while you have done nothing but get your hair done all day? fuuuuuuck that. 10 years ago I would have not said anything and gotten food and she would have thought less of me. And she had her lip poked out about it, i'd rather deal with a poked lip, then someone poking her lip becuase i've become a chump if you catch my drift.

Anyway, 10 years ago, had I knew I was right I still would not have said anything because I was afraid of 1. conflict and 2. afraid of not being approved by her, even though I didn't want her. This is actually quite common with women with me. It's not that i'm an *******, i'm not, I just say what I feel needs to be said instead of walking on eggshells. Some women aren't used to that anymore. My whole outlook on women went from one that I wanted to impress them, to where they now have to impress me. Rather they have to or not is not the point, the fact that, this is what I firmly believe now, regardless of the schematics of it all, is what makes you a DJ or not. 10 years ago I would have thought i had a nice friend who I could kick it with becuse she was "nice". now, I look her as uninformed attention seeker who would rather pop pills than eat right.

 

[Slickster]

Thanks backbreaker you've given me some more ideas...

The budding DJ makes mistakes when...

- He fears conflict with women
- He sacrifices his own beliefs and values in an effort to be more likeable.


I don't completely agree with your "perfect is boring" statement however. I do understand where you are coming from. I also believe that being truly perfect is nearly impossible.

I heard a good piece of advice once...

"Aim for perfection. Settle for excellence"

This to me is a good attitude for an aspiring DJ. Be aware of your faults. Strive to eliminate them as best you can. Realize you'll never be perfect but always strive for improvement.

 

[Alchemystic]

I am not sure we were encoded with the same DJ program in our heads.
We are not in the same wavelength.

Are you sure you are talking about the real Don Juans or the Fake Don Juans who lurk in sosuave.com?
I am not sure which of the two do you mean?
Maybe you got your information on what a True Don Juan all screwed up?
Where do you get all these ****ed up information from?

I think what you were referring to your post were the wannabe Don Juans, The Conservative, religious AFC Nice Guys pretending to be Don Juans.
You got it all mixed up somehow.

I could make a detailed step by step review about your post but I am too busy right now so I will do it later.

Oops gotta go, I am late for some ass smoochin'.

 

[Buddha_Mind]

^^this guy is a fool.

More to original post:

- budding dj believes sex is the victory...
- budding dj thinks cheating is fair-game
- budding dj wants to know how to get with a girl with a bf
- budding dj thinks change is overnight
- budding dj underestimates afc-relapse

 

[Boilermaker]

not to dilute the point here, but the "fishing" vs "hunting" analogy is bankrupt.

EVERYBODY chooses targets. You can't operate without choosing targets. Do you sit around in a coffee shop all day and expect women to come to you and open you ?.. That would be a good fishing metaphor but you wouldn't get anywhere for years.

It's one thing to recognize the "true" value of a possible prey to correctly evaluate the next course of action ( escalate or next ) ..

There are always targets. You are just saying they are cheaper (and insignificant) than many of us actually think.

But that comes back to MEETING women and GENERATING possibilities...


A LOT of things converge to this singularity in the world of AFC: HOW TO MEET LOTS AND LOTS OF WOMEN?

 

[Slickster]

^^this guy is a fool.

More to original post:

- budding dj believes sex is the victory...
- budding dj thinks cheating is fair-game
- budding dj wants to know how to get with a girl with a bf
- budding dj thinks change is overnight
- budding dj underestimates afc-relapse

Yes! All good stuff.

There's NO reason to cheat if you play the game right. Stay single and enjoy yourself.

Girls with boyfriends puts you in a position of chasing again. If she really wants to be with you, SHE will make it happen.

 

[Slickster]

I'm not trying to act almighty here. I'm just trying to share what has always worked for me so that others can benefit.

not to dilute the point here, but the "fishing" vs "hunting" analogy is bankrupt.

EVERYBODY chooses targets. You can't operate without choosing targets. Do you sit around in a coffee shop all day and expect women to come to you and open you ?.. That would be a good fishing metaphor but you wouldn't get anywhere for years.

Sitting around a coffee shop "waiting" will get you no where.

I think there is a great misconception that to be successful with women you have to be out there approaching and trying to close every target you see. That is chasing. I guess it works for some people and it has for me to some extent. Trying to charm people like that is VERY difficult however and in most cases I think it comes off as schmoozing and creepy. In my experience that kind of game works best on airhead chicks. The women with good heads on their shoulders see your efforts as trying too hard. I'll try to share what works for me in an effort to make my point about chasing and targets.


My game is this:

Coffee shops
I go to the same coffee shop all the time. The cute girl that works there gets a simple smile and hello the first time. This goes on for a few more times, then she gets some small chit chat. Very brief and with absolutely NO hints whatsoever that I am interested. Eventually she becomes more and more comfortable with seeing me around. I'm a familiar face and maybe we've bumped into each other around town a couple times. Somewhere down the road we actually have a really good conversation. Even though I don't know her at all we are familiar with each other enough and it is easy for her to talk to me because I have never given her any indication that I'm pursuing anything. We have a great conversation, I make her laugh, and show that I'm a fun guy. In the meantime I have been playing this exact same game with some of the other regular customers. THEY DON'T EVEN HAVE TO BE WOMEN!! When cute coffee girl sees me she sees a fun loving guy who is everyone's friend. All of this conveys value and generates interest. Now down the road when I visit the coffee shop I notice that cute coffee girl is the one chatting ME up. She's telling me stuff and stories about HER life. We joke, we laugh, we're friends with that underlying tone that "something more" just might be there someday. When I ask her out doesn't concern me at all. Hell she might ask me out first! I haven't chosen anyone as a target because I do the same thing with everyone. You might call this fishing. I call it planting seeds. I plant them EVERYWHERE. The video store, the grocery store, the gym, etc. Everywhere I frequent. Over the long run it is difficult to go anywhere without running into familiar faces and possible romantic interests.


Parties
When I go to a party or pub I don't focus on picking up women at all. I have a great time with my friends or whoever is around. I'm not trying to be the life of the party so much as trying to make everyone around me have a great time. My single buddies walk in and immediately focus on the hot chicks (targets). They are worried about playing it cool in an effort to get in there somehow.

So while my buddies are focusing on gaming their "targets", I'm in the other room organizing a silly drinking game or game of Catchphrase - the sex version with whoever happens to be there. When the screams of laughter start emanating through the house people come to check it out. There, they see me in the middle organizing it all. I see my buddy and his "target" standing on the sidelines watching and I overhear her asking him "Who is that guy?". He is defeated and I feel bad because all his gaming and hunting didn't stand a chance when she saw me confident enough to be silly, making everyone laugh, and generally leading the fun times. I'm not hunting or fishing. I'M THE BAIT. I'M THE FISHING LURE. I AM THE TARGET!

Whatever kind of party it is I generally just try to be that good time guy. I'm not doing it for attention or to attract women. I like to have fun and bring others along for the ride. It's contagious. The women ARE attracted but that is just a nice side effect. When your buddies start catching on and see the positive results they join in too. Then you have a whole crew of good time guys who walk into a party and light the place up.



Anyhow, the original list above was generated mainly from things I've learned here and over the years things I've seen my unsuccessful friends do over and over.

Sure "hunting" or approaching will work if you do it enough. I never ever wanted to be Joe Schmooze who hunts down hot women and talks them into liking me.

To me, a real Don Juan is the guy who walks into a room and has all the women wanting him just by being himself. Whether they approach or act on their desires doesn't even matter.

These are two VERY different ways of approaching the idea of being successful with women.

 

[Buddha_Mind]

no man not almighty

Slickster -- these were good words, not almighty, and you know I'm not sure how much people have to perceive this as "game", because truly I do not believe you are suggesting your social interaction to be ingenuine. That's where this stuff gets hazy -- if you are BSing people than you are a BSer. I'm not sure a DJ has to be that way -- but rather understand the ways of people, perhaps being so understanding of people that he knows how to carry the vibes of the social atmosphere.

Most people *are rather suggestive* as to what is happening all around them. We are social creatures. We are looking around us to others to gauge their reactions on all sorts of things. Hell, most people really have assembled an entire world-view and an entire-life based upon what others have suggested for them.

I think learning to understand the art of being a social "butterfly" if you will is the right step towards getting the type of women you want in your life. Nobody wants to be around someone who is so socially awkward that they cannot speak their ideas or keep the "vibes" of the group up. Usually people who are able to keep the "vibes" going and take leadership are the ones people look up to (males as friends and females who want to be with them).

Truly, whether or not you are trying to get laid, it's just good to talk to people. Really everyone has something you can learn from, as they have their own unique set of life experiences and histories. Really, a person who learns to reach out and spread good social vibes will learn a great deal from other people, likely be far more self-empowered, and will find women more naturally being attracted to him (and alot of this is simply you are becoming a man of social value...people want to talk to you...and enjoy talking to you). This does not have to be a "feigning-of-friendship" so to speak. If you are at a point where you feel you are BSing someone for the sake of the conversation, well you should probably wrap it up and find something more real to fill your time with.

I think this is solid advice (from slickster) for sure.

If you are having trouble engaging people (not just women), just keep practicing. I've always found that just asking people questions about their own lives is a great start (as covered in the DJB and countless threads, who doesn't enjoy sharing about themselves).

Slickster -- for those who have trouble finally asking the barista out (given her cues of smiles and laughs and a previously-established-rapport) what's the best approach? Do you go with the, "hey I'm doing this and this..care to join"? That seems like the smoothest way to extend an invite without pressure and without context of "is this a date"...leads to wonder (ie, what will our adventure be like? what does he see in me?) from the woman...and if she declines, well life goes on, there's more hotties in line.

 

[Buddha_Mind]

I also am not sure if I entirely agree on the "target" approach. Man, what I've done is I have my "target" in my mind so to speak, ie, the fish I'd most prefer to eat and enjoy and spend time with, but I do generally "keep the vibes flowing outwards" in a sense. I find if you focus all of your energy on a single chick it can be too intense...maybe for those who are not yet understanding the right ways of dealing with their selected target, a bit of "net-fishing" is not a bad thing...

I'm open to new ideas on this. I am working to improve also.

 

[Slickster]

Slickster -- for those who have trouble finally asking the barista out (given her cues of smiles and laughs and a previously-established-rapport) what's the best approach? Do you go with the, "hey I'm doing this and this..care to join"? That seems like the smoothest way to extend an invite without pressure and without context of "is this a date"...leads to wonder (ie, what will our adventure be like? what does he see in me?) from the woman...and if she declines, well life goes on, there's more hotties in line.

Exactly my mindset and what I would do.

Even further I don't just suggest that she join me to do __________. I actually am doing _________, whether she's coming or not. There's a big difference there and it will come thru in your conversation if aren't actually planning to do what you say.

If she declines, no worries, no rejection, no nexting, no thinking about her anymore than usual. Carry on as if it never happened. Business as usual next time I see her. I might even ask (suggest) her out again if the right signs are there.

 

[Boilermaker]

Exactly my mindset and what I would do.

Even further I don't just suggest that she join me to do __________. I actually am doing _________, whether she's coming or not. There's a big difference there and it will come thru in your conversation if aren't actually planning to do what you say.

slickster, I disagree. Your mindset relies on HER leading and initiating the entire thing. Why would she ask to join your chess simul on ICC ?...

Most of the time it doesn't work like that. Unless you are a celebrity, maybe! It might even come off as you are too scared of rejection and that you don't have the courage to come out and make a bold move.

I totally understand your "fun, charming, nice but attractive" guy approach but I think an important element is missing.

BALLS

 

[Slickster]

slickster, I disagree. Your mindset relies on HER leading and initiating the entire thing. Why would she ask to join your chess simul on ICC ?...

Most of the time it doesn't work like that. Unless you are a celebrity, maybe! It might even come off as you are too scared of rejection and that you don't have the courage to come out and make a bold move.

I totally understand your "fun, charming, nice but attractive" guy approach but I think an important element is missing.

BALLS

Hahaha, Boiler.

If you knew me you'd see why I think that "BALLS" comment is funny.

I think that you are missing something here.

She isn't initiating anything. I'm asking her out. I'm just not using the standard "Hey do you wanna go on a date with me line?" When you do that you are placing the ball in her court. You may have done the "bold" initiating but ultimately it is HER that is choosing YOU. She is choosing whether or not your plan is going to happen. You are placing her in control of your destiny.

In my scenario I already have plans to go do something amazing and I merely present an option for her to join me. I'm going regardless of her answer. This isn't done to avoid rejection although that's a nice bonus isn't it? It's done so that I'm always in control and she gets a glimpse at the interesting and fun life I'm leading. (with or without her)