Morals will lose you the game.

[PantyWhisperer]

I'll quote my man Dalton, the bouncer played by Patrick Swayze in the wildly underrated, un-apologetically cheesy "Road House":
"I want you to be nice.. until it's time..to not be nice" This is basically how I handle myself with people, be they male or female. I do unto others until they do unto me. Then I smack em hard.

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

The problem with morals is people use them to try and control other people, or to rationalize their own shortcomings.

It is often a way of getting others to lower, or give up, their value - based on other people's insecurities.

Morals aren't sh*t in this game. They are a way for women and weak men to virtue-signal, and for loser guys to try and control women and stronger males.

This is some of the truest stuff I have ever read. Everyone ought to take note of this.

Spot on post.

Very deep and wise. A lot of people are ignorant of the fact that morals are a social construct and they vary from culture to culture. The end goal of morals is the same though: To give power to the people who create them.

People decide what is "right and wrong" based on their own strengths and weaknesses.

This gets me wondering though. Morals are more so about not abusing another's weakness in the broad sense rather than anything specific. But is this innate or a completely social construct?

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

Complete social construct.

Are morals also built to avoid conflict or is it it solely for power?

 

[Slash Dolo]

Bro your post is conflicting. You are saying you have had sex with 30+ women at 27, but have learned the hard way morals lead to a loss. If you have had so much sex with so many women, what are you trying to accomplish with morals? You want a relationship? You want a soul mate? You want a wife?

Usually men get angry when they can't get sex from women and subsequently throw morals out to get sex or win at all costs. What are you trying win with women if you've had so much sex? It appears you want a wife and they are not cooperating, or there is something you are telling us.

30+ successes were met with 20-30+ failures. Probably more. Not ashamed to admit that. In those failures you see some things that will make you red pill faster than light. It's the failures and not the successes that truly shape you.

I respect if you guys feel differently, and I take a pretty nihilistic approach to all this. But I just want p*ssy, and I want it to be as easy as possible, and I want to waste as little time as possible doing it. Poon King brought up a good point that may be easier for some though; only throw morals out when faced with a situation that calls for it.

 

[Who Dares Win]

Exactly, I read somewhere that you are a relfection of the 5 people closest to you.

Stepping over the line is generally a defence against assh0le behaviour. The bully isn't as big when you hit them back.

Im not sure I got the meaning of the last lines, could you please elaborate.

 

[Slash Dolo]

To the OP:

Like Poon King said, FAIRNESS goes out the window, but morality does not. I'm not gonna fvck my brother's wife once he gets married just to win at some game, or screw my wife's sister(s) just so that I "don't lose" once I do get married. That's just fvcked up. However, I don't care for hurting a woman if she tries to screw me over. All is fair in love and war.

Should have clarified, but nah, I wouldn't do this either in regards to a friend/brother. Morality with WOMEN should go out the window. Not with your bros.

This is such bullsh!t. A war where you have to give up your humanity in order to win is a war not worth winning. You put yourself in a lose-lose situation here. Either you lose women or you lose your morality. I say f#ck that.

When women lose their morality us men should be the better person, we should in fact be extra moral. Us men have always led society. What we have today, our society, our western morals and values, our wealth, succes and stability, has all been build by men. Lets not tear that apart and revert back to barbarism for women, shall we? Instead we should show women the light and get them back on the right path, our path.

Some women will follow, some wont. To the latter I say; f#ck them. They'll get what is coming to them when they end up lone, miserably cat ladies past their experation date.

If you have to stoop down to the level of immoral women to sleep with them, you're acting like a beta f@ggot. You don't want to be a beta f@ggot. Instead you want to be alpha and NEXT these women.

Being alpha, being a proper DJ, isn't just about sleeping with lots of women, it's about being a leader, an upstanding citizen who leads by example and who both men and women look up to.

I respect your opinion even with the passive aggressiveness of it. If I can't be a predator, I'll be a scavenger. It's better than being prey. You do what works for you though.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

@cola once gave us an invaluable quote when posting about stoicism.

"Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth." - Marcus Aurelius

The individual should use all the available tools to develop his own destiny & path. He who stops to consider society's failings will end up becoming part of them.

The enlightened individual often sees the hypocrisy in society's morals & values. Therefore, he only plays for his own gain. Natural selection removes the purposeless. One should aim to rise above the preconceptions & paradigms. One leads by example, not by joining the diatribe spouted by the deluded hordes.

And then it depends on what is 'gain', and if Naturalism is itself just one perspective.

The point of everything being a perspective, or interpretation, is a skeptical one. It's directed at knowledge. If bodies of knowledge are recognized to be dubious, we are then forced to live by faith, by our instincts, which are diverse and in conflict.

The point of self development is to create a coherency out of them, not to obliterate the rest while reducing to one. The moral instinct is just as innate as our desire to copulate.

The OP, along with others, is not interested in self-development. Perhaps one day he will be. That's his choice to make. There's another camp, who are concerned with being the best they can be, and as an all round individual as opposed to just a seducer of women, will balance that goal with other goals in life.

Those in the first camp have a specific aim -- they want to bed women. Those in the second camp have a larger more general aim -- they want to improve with women whilst also improving as a man. The OP makes no grandiose statements about the nature of reality and morality. He is fully aware of his limited ambition, and that it most probably will suit his aim to ignore morality. If immoral, he is honest. He does not spout a 'bad faith'.

 

[wifehunter]

The problem with morals is people use them to try and control other people, or to rationalize their own shortcomings.

It is often a way of getting others to lower, or give up, their value - based on other people's insecurities.

Aka Legalism... it's worse than sin itself!!!

 

[guru1000]

The subject of morals is extremely broad. I'll respond with understanding that OP's argument is to game women by "manipulation." IF I understand incorrectly, feel free to qualify the argument further.

Here are my thoughts in manipulating women: Effecting game is akin to sales. You have weaker salesmen who evade and obfuscate dynamics in an attempt to dupe the subject into acquiescence. And they are successful (until they get caught). Then you have stronger salesmen who are 100% forthcoming with their intent, but possess such strength (frame) in their delivery that they neither need to obfuscate nor dissemble. They just are; they say what they want to say with no forethought, and women naturally fall into their frame.

In "strong game," there is no rehearsing, no thoughts of "what if," no thoughts of "how to." There is just you and what you desire ... and then there is she, who will naturally follow your lead. And so: When you reach the epitome of "game," you come to the realization that there is no "game."

 

[guru1000]

This is ridiculous.

Of course it is to you. We are in different dimensions. You're a 6 chaser. You're still learning.

 

[3agle 3yes]

I'll direct this at the OP because there's far too many comments.

It depends what your goal is and what you want, if you want be moralistic (in the way you used it in your post) or not.

You either win or lose. Once you start realizing you hate losing more than you love winning, the means it takes to get the win will no longer bother you. Myself, I aim to only win from now on. You should do the same; no matter what you have to do to get there.

What constitutes "winning" or "losing" to you?
Is it this?

...I just want p*ssy, and I want it to be as easy as possible, and I want to waste as little time as possible doing it...

Because if "getting pvssy" constitutes "winning" to you then I think I've found the "issue".

I honestly believe men place more value on women than they've ever placed on them before.

And it's creating two extremes, but both are MANIPULATORS. 1) The nice guy, who manipulates women by buying them gifts...acts "nice", gives compliments and general needy behavior etc and 2) The bad guy, you manipulates by using some of the methods you've mentioned earlier.

Women have only gotten to where they are (acting like queens, flaking etc) because their pvssies have become OVERVALUED.

We live in an era of cheap, quick frills...where nothing lasts anymore.

Most people are too concerned with instant gratification and external validation.

This type of thinking will never get you to a higher level.

 

[guru1000]

That's why I went out today only approaching 8's, idiot.

LOL.

 

[zekko]

One of my best friends got married last year. He works his bollocks off to provide for a plain/boring woman, and a kid that isn't his.

I've said all along that marriage is a bad deal for men in the present culture. This guy married a woman with a ready made family. Was this guy's problem that he was beta, or that he was just stupid?

It's key to understand that society was built by beta-males, for beta-males.

Wow, I didn't realize that beta males had so much power. In any case, I'm sure many so called "alphas" benefit from society along with the betas. Indoor plumbing comes to mind.

In "strong game," there is no rehearsing, no thoughts of "what if," no thoughts of "how to." There is just you and what you desire ... and then there is she, who will naturally follow your lead. And so: When you reach the epitome of "game," you come to the realization that there is no "game."

That may be put a little too cutely for some, but as I said in a previous post: I refuse to play games, it's too adolescent for my taste. I prefer to operate from a strong frame instead. When you do this, everything else takes care of itself.

 

[guru1000]

You maintain frame, somewhat like Hitler did in his bunker losing WWII.

You speak of advanced game, yet anyone with even a handful of cold-approaches knows you are talking detrimental bollocks.

Hilarious how you won't discuss the basics of your own game, yet you expect people to hear you out about your 'advanced game'

You have no business replying to me, nor to advise others, when your average plate is/was a 6.6, by your own admission. Humble yourself. Come back when you get real numbers.

That may be put a little too cutely for some, but as I said in a previous post: I refuse to play games, it's too adolescent for my taste. I prefer to operate from a strong frame instead. When you do this, everything else takes care of itself.

One word. Authenticity.

 

[zekko]

Operating from a strong frame is still game.
How do you pull then?

Strong frame is the most important part of game. But when you authentically have a strong frame, as I said, the rest takes care of itself, and you don't have to play games. I'm not saying no one should play games, I'm just saying it's not my preference or style.

As for how I pull, I thought you were aware I had a girlfriend, so I'm not currently trying to pull (yes, I know that you probably find that whole sentence horrifying - to each his own). But to answer your question, just vibe, invite them somewhere, escalate from there. I don't put much thought into it, other than whether or not they meet my requirements.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

Strong frame is the most important part of game. But when you authentically have a strong frame, as I said, the rest takes care of itself, and you don't have to play games.

This is when "there is no game." Your frame is natural, and you don't have to "think" about game. Not that the mechanics of interaction don't exist, you just don't need to think about them. Unconscious competence of "game."

And yes, when top athletes are playing, they aren't consciously thinking, "who should I pass to, when should I shoot etc." It's what THIS BOOK is all about. It's natural. They are "above" other players in that regard.

But to answer your question, just vibe, invite them somewhere, escalate from there. I don't put much thought into it, other than whether or not they meet my requirements.

The bold underlined part is the ONLY thing you'll worry about when you are operating from a strong and natural frame.

And believe it or not, you can generally tell pretty quickly once you get enough experience.

As far as "morals" go, to get back to the topic, that blends into "whether or not she meets your requirements," whether or not she is of sufficient moral character, according do your own (not society's) definitions.

As far as morals come from, I recommend interested in learning beyond internet chest beating, to take a look down THIS rabbit hole.

A Farewell to Alms

You might say this is an economic and evolutionary description of where "morals" came from.

But it's not obvious. You'll have to do some thinking....

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

When you reach the epitome of "game," you come to the realization that there is no "game."

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't this essentially what Pook meant when he said that the answer to women is already embedded within our nature? (The Secret Of The Jerk)

 

[Slash Dolo]

I'll direct this at the OP because there's far too many comments.

It depends what your goal is and what you want, if you want be moralistic (in the way you used it in your post) or not.

What constitutes "winning" or "losing" to you?
Is it this?
Because if "getting pvssy" constitutes "winning" to you then I think I've found the "issue".

I honestly believe men place more value on women than they've ever placed on them before.

And it's creating two extremes, but both are MANIPULATORS. 1) The nice guy, who manipulates women by buying them gifts...acts "nice", gives compliments and general needy behavior etc and 2) The bad guy, you manipulates by using some of the methods you've mentioned earlier.

Women have only gotten to where they are (acting like queens, flaking etc) because their pvssies have become OVERVALUED.

We live in an era of cheap, quick frills...where nothing lasts anymore.

Most people are too concerned with instant gratification and external validation.

This type of thinking will never get you to a higher level.

One could argue that manipulation is the basis for the rise of some of the most powerful men. Adolf Hitler. Charles Manson. Not regarded as good people, but they were damn good at gaming everyone. They're infamous.

Months ago I was having sex and not enjoying it. It was like putting a bandage on a severed limb. Something was missing. I realized I didn't necessarily enjoy the the act of sex anymore (these were plates I could hit up anytime), but the pursuit and accomplishment of the goal. We as men set goals and meet them, even subconsciously. We are a competitive species, and the competition involved in getting a lay is the main drive now. Finding out what makes people tick and, yes, manipulating your way in if need be is now what I am interested in. Relationships are fleeting and a made up construct by society. I don't value them or take them seriously.

There are certain girls who will only sleep with you if you are seeing someone, or if you have a certain set of ideals, or if you're a f*cking psychopath (let's hope you are simply a good actor and not the real deal with this one.) You'll be missing out by not expanding your tool set. We will all still lose at this game no matter our experience levels, however my goal is to lose as infrequently as possible no matter the cost. Women are getting more and more ridiculous, insane and entitled by the day. If you put meaning into societal boundaries like relationships, marriage and morals, I feel you will be in for quite the disappointment down the line. Unless you are incredibly lucky, at least.

 

[guru1000]

ITDG, Pook was a young theorist whose ideas were inspired by and modeled high-value men. But his thinking in how to model is very different than being.

You start great. You don't end great. The end result is a manifestation of who you think you are today. Great actions follow great thinking, not contrariwise. I am not advocating to abandon practicality, but rather to understand your potentiality and embrace your higher value. The good news is this high-value paradigm is a choice. Unfortunately, many choose to be ordinary ... And ordinary they self-ordain. Show me any poster here, and I will show you his fate.

Apple began with a thought: Jobs said I'm going to build the greatest fcken computer which will be held in the hands of and cherished by all and will revolutionize the way the world uses technology. And so he did. Jobs was a mental giant before he became an actualized giant. He wasn't taught tricks and techniques. He began great--and reality succumbed to him, to the higher-value he declared and "owned"... to his frame.

As you are, you will not become, as you have already become. Game is limiting in this context as who is she that YOU need to game her. On the individual level, Who is placing whom on a pedestal in such a context where game is required or
even thought about? Game is anti-game. Authenticity with higher value is true game.

I earnestly believe it is within all of us to be great, to transcend "game," in spite of the physicality which I so often solicit working on.

 

[SteR]

I think this thread sort of ties in with the one made the other day about frame.

In "strong game," there is no rehearsing, no thoughts of "what if," no thoughts of "how to." There is just you and what you desire ... and then there is she, who will naturally follow your lead. And so: When you reach the epitome of "game," you come to the realization that there is no "game."

That may be put a little too cutely for some, but as I said in a previous post: I refuse to play games, it's too adolescent for my taste. I prefer to operate from a strong frame instead. When you do this, everything else takes care of itself.

This is when "there is no game." Your frame is natural, and you don't have to "think" about game. Not that the mechanics of interaction don't exist, you just don't need to think about them. Unconscious competence of "game."

I agree with what @guru1000 says here. I paraphrase here, but I think Mystery (the PUA) said himself that game is basically imitating the behaviours of guys successful with women. So you're basically presenting alpha traits to women. The problem is that they're not authentic - you're faking it. It works great for pick up I guess, but sooner or later the facade will crumble and the true, weaker, character of the man will be exposed. When you're using 'game' you're effectively sacrificing your true self in order to pander to women.

From my understanding, when you've 'mastered' (I use this term loosely as I believe we're always learning) game is when you're acting from your authentic self. You're unafraid to express your true desires and there's no show going on here. It's funny because in some way 'be yourself' really is good advice. You should be going for what you want in life, rather than trying to mould yourself to what you think a girl wants. The success comes when you have the SMV to back it up.

One could argue that manipulation is the basis for the rise of some of the most powerful men. Adolf Hitler. Charles Manson. Not regarded as good people, but they were damn good at gaming everyone. They're infamous.

I agree with you to an extent, but I don't believe there was any conscious manipulating done by these men. As I mentioned in the frame thread, I believe this men believed so strongly in their own realities that others either conceded to them or had to walk away. I believe Steve Jobs was another man like this..