Millionaire tip of the day- Meet a 20yr. old MILLIONAIRE

[STR8UP]

Originally posted by GQ_Confidence_1
IMO, one of the biggest problems people face when trying to build wealth is that they get stuck trying to do what everyone else is doing.

I see this all the time on the internet (not necessarily a bad thing). But the choices are usually.....real estate, small business, ebay, MLM, stocks or some kind of trading. Usually there is a guru leading the way.

Kiyosaki, Russ Whitney, Carleton Sheets, Tony Robbins, etc.
You can make money in those. No question. But there's a million other possibilities. I've been down the self help/guru road. I don't think you see all the possibilities there.

You are looking at it the wrong way. There isn't a "self help guru" method for wealth. The way to become wealthy is to buy assets, plain and simple. The guru's might have different suggestions to help you along the way, but the premise doesn't change.

Most of the stuff you mentioned is all about business related stuff. There are guru's out there for that too. That's why you need to expose yourself to all asset classes and many different methods so you can decide what method works for YOU.

Leverage is the most important word though. You can't become a millionaire at 20 trading time for an hourly wage. Every millionaire has used leverage in some form.

Unless you are a business genius that knows how to build a VERY profitable company with a very tiny investment, that is very true.

 

[sifer]

Haha, I cracked up at Gio's response. His bitterness and anger knows no end. His wifey got a response and he considers it an attack of some sort.

Sounds like someone has too many kids.

Ok, Gio/Pen, listen, more than half of us are willing to listen. Why don't you write a thread about how to get rich/wealthy? Tell us how STR8UP is bull****ting. Or in a more harsh word, LYING. Is STR8UP lying because he bought or has bought real estate with his credit card? Are you telling us real estate cannot be bought with credit card?

STR8UP, I couldn't be bothered to write the PM again. Damnit, just do yourself a favor, lawsuits in USA is flying high (as usual), so what I mean to say is - DON'T DO IT. Don't show the pics or docs to them. You don't need to risk lawsuit and privacy invasion for the sake of your ego being stroked.
I hope you already knew that.

Gio might sue you.

 

[DumpaLumpagus]

Hi I have read this entire post and I am very intrigued. I have, one question...

Using leverage lets you get hold of a property, okay? But unless property(s) generate more then debt incurred, you have absolutely no money because you do not have equity. The lender has the equity, the meat, the money. I agree that this game is a two-way street, its either a risk or a security. So if I want to start investing, in the beginning should I attempt to generate enough capital for myself, before expanding? EXAMPLE: I bought condo on lended capital for 100,000 and happened to generate 120,000 from it. If I can do this 5 more times I will have 100,000 of my OWN money and not the banks to sink into ONE more condo (its an example, okay?) NOW I have the equity in one property! WHAT SHOULD I DO!? Should I use leverage again to expand, and take the risk, or should I turnover the condo I own for 120,000 and invest my capital into, say, a 115,000 condo?

By the way, thank you for introducing me to the Credit Millionare, it seems to be worth the investment.

 

[sifer]

Originally posted by DumpaLumpagus
By the way, thank you for introducing me to the Credit Millionare, it seems to be worth the investment.

I spoke to Donna before. Very smart.
Got an autograph from her. w00t

It's like one of those moment when you get a handshake from Donald Trump (waaahaha).

Seems like STR8UP and I get our info from the same people. No wonder it works because we put it to work and it gets the results desired.

 

[sifer]

Here are my thoughts.
For anybody who might read threads/posts by STR8UP or backbreaker or mine hoping to get rich and wealthy.

First off, don't get me wrong, everybody wants to get rich. Everybody wants to be wealthy and not have the pressure waking up with financial problems.

But have you ever asked yourself, why? Why are you doing this?

I'm going to say this; it is going to pull you and push you. You just have to deal with it. If you can't, you die (not literal but in the sense of spiritually or emotionally, whichever cracks your egg).



Most people won't fight, most people are average and die. And most people find it too hard. It's easy to stay in school, go to college, then get a job. Seriously, I had honor (1 class) and AP (Advanced Placement) (2 classes at the time, were getting invited to the third) classes in high school. And it was those moments when I dropped out. I could've stayed and gone to college.

That decision was the scariest but the best I've ever made. I know for sure, guaranteed, and I'll make a bet with anyone that if I wanted to go to any Ivy League, any prestigious school, I can. I can work hard as hell. I consider myself a person with integrity and discipline.

Little note - Of course, the bet must be substantial. I'm talking about a bet that is large enough to cover my entire time at the particular prestigious college, AND more for me after I graduate. And it MUST be on paper. That is we will sign a contract and if you don't uphold your words, you'll be seeing my lawyer. And if I don't succeed, the money that was supposed to be used to pay for my college and me for my time will be paid to YOU instead.

I want to restate the obvious.

Why do you want money?

So you can buy your needs.
So you can live your life and maximize our hobby and interest.
So you can love your kids and family better.
So you can enjoy life the way it is meant to be enjoyed.

But what I realized is that life isn't as good as you or I would like it. I want what everybody here wants. I want world peace, cures to AID/HIV, ending to the world hunger, etcetc. But unfortunately I don't see that coming too soon.

Seriously, think about it.

I rather everyone be filthy rich and wealthy and happy than the opposite. I rather live next-door to a spoiled kid who shows off his car everyday than a poor kid that dresses all ghetto (and living in lower New York, I know how it is; when your police case number starts stacking, that's when you realize you gotta do something about it). I want to live peacefully knowing that my next-door neighbor is doing the same. I don't want to lose my sleep worrying because my neighbor is poor and might destroy MY house and even take my life.

Questions I would hope you consider;
Do you find yourself comparing yourself with another person different from you?

My advice - don't. So what if you become "better" than the person you're comparing yourself with. There will always be someone on "top" of you.

It seems like people in this forum like to compare themself with someone. And if they aren't at where the person "better" than them is at, they attack that person, usually sarcastically and bitterly. Not referring to anyone in particular.

Do you go, "hm... this person is a fraud, ok, I am not going to take his advice"? What if, for example, in stocks, this stock expert lived a false life, lied about his mother being Virgin Mary and his father being Jesus Christ, yet gives you a piece of advice to invest in a certain stock that, in one week, gives you a 1,100% of the investment in profit.

My advice - don't. What difference is Pook's "Be a man", than mine, if I wrote, "Be a man"? It's always the same. The law of physics works in every planet. 1+1=2

I find it funny how people are hypocrites on here and don't want to admit it or just don't realize it.

Take for example, someone buys property for no-down and then attacks someone else who gives that advice and that someone says it's not a good advice because it sounds like a get-rich-scheme. What? You believe in one thing and do the opposite. Not the first time it happened too.

Do you find yourself in a hard situation? When the advice, "go to school, work hard, go to college, work hard, and have a family, and work harder," isn't working, don't you think maybe it's time for a change?

My advice - there are people who go bankrupt, they commit suicide (I just read one, any Asians who can read Chinese can read today's World Journal will know the news I'm talking about, yes, the article where he took his 7 y/o son with him because he was afraid his son might grow up to hate him and spit on his grave because of his failure in his business) instead of toughing it out and learning to deal with hit. Either that or they start to slack off and their bill piles up. They do it badly too.

DEAL WITH IT. DEAL WITH IT. You put yourself there, you can get back up.

 

[sifer]

Do you find yourself motivated by money? If you do, you will never get it. That's rephrasing Rockefeller in my own words.

My advice - it's hard to work with someone who has dollar signs in his eyes. It makes you feel like you are being taken advantaged of. Would you rather work with some greedy bastard? Or a guy who is willing to help you? There we go.
As I think, I am.

What about pursuing your passion? Why not pursue it with all of your might and spirit? Why stop and say "it won't make me a profit" then change major/profession/job/etcetc?

Forget business, forget investing in real estate, forget investing in stocks.
JUST DO WHAT YOU LOVE. Stop worrying about money, worry about what you love.

It doesn't matter though, in the end, because when backbreaker is done with his business, he'll be home enjoying life as best as he could and he could try to give some free advice to people who want it.

In fact, I don't care if someone attack me, insult me, call me names, because when I get home, I'll be enjoying life. (Pst pst... I play Guild Wars, anyone play? I got Ventrilo! w00t)
I get to walk to my bank and get first instead of waiting in line (people like STR8UP usually do not wait in line. No wait, better example, Bill Gates or Donald Trump. You think they wait in line when they go to the bank?).

I'll be drinking and having fun with what life can offer. I'll simply call up one of the girls and play strip poker or just go straight to the sex. Then send them home back to their college room.

STR8UP too. Some people here attack him, subtly or directly. Do you actually think he's going to cry in the corner of his bed curled up into a ball? Waaaahhh wahhhh someone hurt my feelings on the INTERNET. Yea right.

I see people like STR8UP everyday and I've dealt with Gio's kind when I invest (and I still do). Yea, Gio's kind outnumber the STR8UP kind but the people that act, think, and do things similar to what STR8UP advise, are usually the ones I see living a good life, not bitter or angry. Willing to listen and take up what they can do and help their fellow human beings.

What about backbreaker? Or even Page? You think you saying a few things will change the course of history on a damn forum? "Oh I'm going to log on the internet.... hm... WHOA, I don't like the sound of that advise, because it never worked for me, I'm going to e-talk his ass and be an e-thug to his ass, I'm going to e-intimidate him, woo wooo woooo he's scared alright".

Sigh.

What I don't understand is, how is an advice bad or good when it isn't laid out? What I mean is, if you hear someone say "oh he's giving bad advice", you would also want to know how, right?

If it gives me $1,000 profit legally, why not take it? Who cares if the advice is "call the IRS and talk it out to lower the tax payment" so long as it's legal and ethical. Most people pay tax and sadly, overpay. I know this, I pay my tax. I don't pay over, in fact, I aggressively attack (dispute) the IRS and tell them why I am not willing to pay too much tax. Of course they understand and reason and I don't have to pay as much tax as the average. I would be willing to bet that I pay less tax in percentage of my asset to liability than STR8UP and backbreaker. Yes! That's a threat to you two!

Did you know? There was a research done by Forbe's magazine I believe. They sent out 50 something application on a hypothetical businessman who has to pay tax, to IRS officers, accountants, tax consultants, investors, etcetc. The professionals, or as Gio seem to like to refer them as, "the white collars".

What is astonishing is that the highest tax paid and lowest tax paid difference was a whopping $70,000+. Some people accept their fate and pay too much tax. Some people don't, they fight the fate (or fight the life as Robert Kiyosaki's rich dad would like to say). And then they pay less and save and invest more.

Listen, Gio and the rest who might think like him.

It doesn't matter if people here converts to white-collar and become rich and wealthy. In fact, what you might not realize is sosuave is a secretive society. The advice given here are usually given here because we want the best out for each other. It's why Pook writes (he once said writing is the heart of the soul, something along those lines) for free. It's why STR8UP and backbreaker gives advice for free.

And if it's bad advice, SIMPLY DON'T TAKE IT. Do what you usually do. Go to school, get a degree in Business or whatever it is you want, and start your own business and do things your way. Go ahead, this is your life. Not mine. I don't care or know if you do LSD and do illegal things. I don't get why some people are so bitter and attack people like STR8UP at every chance they get.

Yes guys, there are lots of con artists out there, there are lots of scam artists out there. It's called life, you deal with it. It isn't just in business. It's EVERYWHERE in life. It's in martial art too, you ever heard of McDojo? I practiced Muay Thai all my life, it's like my financial stances, I learn to weed out good and bad. I know what advice is good in martial art. I also know the difference between a teacher who emphasize on belts and a teacher who emphasize on efficiency and training. This is why I listen, instead of calling people off. Because I listen and learn, and see, "he walks his talks", rather than, "ooooh he's got a black belt", which is pretty much the same analogy as "ooooh STR8UP showed his pics of his property! That's it, all of his advice are good for me!"

Oh, and I remember you once saying you got a black belt in some martial art Gio. So what? Got your ass handed to you and your ego crushed so you decided "I'm going to attack everyone from hereon this day!" Oh wait, feeling sad your black belt means nothing now?

I have no credential of my martial art or real estate or anything I do but I don't go about "I HAVE A BLACK BELT!" nor do I intend on earning any if I could (in Muay Thai they wrap a sash on their arm), I don't care. I make money, put food on my table, and make people smile. I'm not trying to prove anything.

Get this, everyone can do a blue collar job. Everyone can deliver mail, hold a gun, or work on the electricty. But not everyone can train themself to be a go-getter, nor is everyone willing to train themself to get the "eye of the tiger". It's easy for everyone to take the easy way out. Trust me, high school and college are NOT hard. Its' what you do with yourself and your time that makes it tough. The smartest people I know are the same people who study hard and say college is silly easy. Then they become a waitress wondering why nobody wants to hire them.

In fact, the top-tier white collar IMO are a rare thing these days.

Oh yeah... and you don't hope to get rich and/or wealthy.

You either know it and get there or you don't and don't get there.


edit - did I tick off someone? Cry me a river. Crryyy meee a river... oooh. Cry oh cry me a river. I didn't intend it but it bothered me so much because it insults my intelligence. Hey call me out, call anyone out, I really want to hear it.

 

[Giovanni Casanova]

Originally posted by STR8UP
If I let you borrow $10 today with the understanding that you would pay me back $20 next month, you might tell me to get lost because that would equate to you paying me HUNDREDS of percent in interest. You would be absolutely justified in telling me to get lost if you were to use that money to buy clothes or food or anything else that has no value (even if you were to put it in the bank earning a small amount of interest) but.....BUT....what if instead you took that money and bought a rare coin from person A for $10 then turned around and sold it to person B two weeks later for $30. You could pay ME the $10 principal and the $10 interest, and YOU keep the difference. Ten bucks in your pocket for knowing that interest is only a cost of doing business.

Further proof of your full-of-sh*tness.

I could borrow $10 from you to buy a rare coin, sell it for $30 and pay you back $20. That way, I make $10 for being smart enough to buy a rare coin and immediately turn it around for a 300 percent profit, something which is fairly rare and difficult to do. And you make the same $10 profit for doing basically nothing. So out of my $20 profit, you take a large portion with your insanely high interest. But in reality, a person who was a little more intelligent could get a more reasonable interest rate, borrow $10, pay back $10.50, and pocket $19.50 in profit.

You think it doesn't matter how much profit you make as long as you make a profit? Are you so free with your money that you think it's acceptable to piss away half your profits on interest as a mere "cost of doing business"?

 

[Giovanni Casanova]

Originally posted by sifer
Ok, Gio, listen, more than half of us are willing to listen. Why don't you write a thread about how to get rich/wealthy? Tell us how STR8UP is bull****ting. Or in a more harsh word, LYING.

I don't have a problem with the fact that STR8UP is bullsh*tting and/or lying. I said that from the beginning. I don't have a problem with STR8UP regurgitating late-night Carleton Sheets infomercials, he can do that till the cows come home... and more power to him and all the idiots that follow him like blind sheep. My comments have for the most part been directed toward the idea that "white collar" people are in some way more productive, "higher producers" or more valuable than the blue collar workers upon which everyone relies.

Is STR8UP lying because he bought or has bought real estate with his credit card?

I do not know STR8UP well enough to know if he is dumb enough to buy real estate with a credit card.

Are you telling us real estate cannot be bought with credit card?

Certainly not.

You don't need to risk lawsuit and privacy invasion for the sake of your ego being stroked.

#1: There's no way to really prove sh*t on the Internet.
#2: Nobody cares.

 

[Giovanni Casanova]

Originally posted by sifer
Oh, and I remember you once saying you got a black belt in some martial art Gio. So what? Got your ass handed to you and your ego crushed so you decided "I'm going to attack everyone from hereon this day!" Oh wait, feeling sad your black belt means nothing now?

I have no credential of my martial art or real estate or anything I do but I don't go about "I HAVE A BLACK BELT!" nor do I intend on earning any if I could (in Muay Thai they wrap a sash on their arm), I don't care. I make money, put food on my table, and make people smile. I'm not trying to prove anything.

I have no clue what kind of acid you're dropping. I was once involved for several years in a martial art, and I guess I must have mentioned it here for you to know about it, but I defy you to show me where I went running around constantly saying "I HAVE A BLACK BELT" ANYWHERE.

I have said it before and I will repeat: I don't care if someone spills coffee in STR8UP's circuitry and he starts regurgitating EVERY SINGLE INFOMERCIAL that airs between 2:30 and 5:30 in the morning. My only issue was the idea that "white collar" people were somehow better or more productive than "blue collar" people.

And if it eases anyone's mind, I promise that when these guys lose their shirts buying real estate with credit cards, I might smile a little, but I won't laugh. Okay, I'll at least try really hard not to.

 

[Giovanni Casanova]

Originally posted by sifer
Haha, I cracked up at Gio's response. His bitterness and anger knows no end.

I have nothing to be bitter or angry about. I have everything I could possibly want. I have nothing to prove on an Internet forum, but I can guarantee you I wouldn't trade my balance sheet with yours or STR8UP's.

 

[STR8UP]

Originally posted by Giovanni Casanova
Further proof of your full-of-sh*tness.

I could borrow $10 from you to buy a rare coin, sell it for $30 and pay you back $20. That way, I make $10 for being smart enough to buy a rare coin and immediately turn it around for a 300 percent profit, something which is fairly rare and difficult to do. And you make the same $10 profit for doing basically nothing. So out of my $20 profit, you take a large portion with your insanely high interest. But in reality, a person who was a little more intelligent could get a more reasonable interest rate, borrow $10, pay back $10.50, and pocket $19.50 in profit.

You think it doesn't matter how much profit you make as long as you make a profit? Are you so free with your money that you think it's acceptable to piss away half your profits on interest as a mere "cost of doing business"?

Let me restate something for those of you who might WANT TO LEARN SOMETHING (that excludes Mr. Know-it-all).

When I say, "It doesn't matter what the interest rate is" that DOES NOT mean that you should pay more than you have to at any given time. It means that WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO A PROFITABLE DEAL GOING THROUGH OR NOT GOING THROUGH YOU PAY WHATEVER YOU MUST PAY TO MAKE A PROFIT!

Gio would rather let a profit pass him by than pay what HE feels is an exorbitant interest rate. Now THAT makes a lot of sense! Make 100% of ZERO rather than 1% of SOMETHING. I'm sure most of you who are reading this are intelligent enough to understand why A LITTLE is better than NOTHING.

Gio, you LOVE to argue for the sake of argument. But let's set the record straight. NO ONE IS SAYING YOU SHOULD EVER PAY MORE THAN IS NECESSARY. But to pass up a profit just because YOU PERSONALLY judge the cost of business to be TOO EXPENSIVE is nothing more than your than your ego overriding your common sense. What the HELL is your point?

You say, "But in reality, a person who was a little more intelligent could get a more reasonable interest rate, borrow $10, pay back $10.50, and pocket $19.50 in profit."

Well, that's all good and fine, and any IDIOT could see that it's better to pay .50 for something as opposed to paying $10, BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT! You have your head SO FAR UP YOUR ASS that you can't even take a second to understand my point. The point is, WHY WOULD YOU PASS UP A PROFIT BECAUSE YOU BELIEVE SOMEONE ELSE (the bank or whoever is charging you interest) IS MAKING TOO MUCH MONEY? If the ONLY way to secure a loan and make a profit is to PAY the $10 why the fukk would you pass it up? USE YOUR BRAIN FOR HALF A SECOND.

Seriously, I am about THIS close to not responding to any of your ridiculous sh!t. You do NOTHING but criticize and have ZERO input other than accusing others of being scam artists. Until you have the balls to step up to the plate and MAKE A LEGITIMATE ARGUMENT consider yourself ignored. Anyone with half a brain can see that you add ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to these discussions. For all of your useless hot air you have yet to make ONE legitmate point. Until you are willing to actually contribute I have nothing else to say to you.

 

[STR8UP]

Originally posted by DumpaLumpagus
Hi I have read this entire post and I am very intrigued. I have, one question...

Using leverage lets you get hold of a property, okay? But unless property(s) generate more then debt incurred, you have absolutely no money because you do not have equity. The lender has the equity, the meat, the money. I agree that this game is a two-way street, its either a risk or a security. So if I want to start investing, in the beginning should I attempt to generate enough capital for myself, before expanding? EXAMPLE: I bought condo on lended capital for 100,000 and happened to generate 120,000 from it. If I can do this 5 more times I will have 100,000 of my OWN money and not the banks to sink into ONE more condo (its an example, okay?) NOW I have the equity in one property! WHAT SHOULD I DO!? Should I use leverage again to expand, and take the risk, or should I turnover the condo I own for 120,000 and invest my capital into, say, a 115,000 condo?

By the way, thank you for introducing me to the Credit Millionare, it seems to be worth the investment.

You seem to have everything under control. The question of whether or not you should buy now, sell later, or whatever depends upon your personal goals. That's not something that can be answered by reading a paragraph.

And you say, "Using leverage lets you get hold of a property, okay? But unless property(s) generate more then debt incurred, you have absolutely no money because you do not have equity. The lender has the equity, the meat, the money."

That's the tightrope you have to walk, I'm afraid.

If it were easy to buy something for 40% below market value and rent it for a 20% cash-on-cash return then EVERYONE would be doing it. You are going to have to search out the deals. They won't fall into your lap on a regular basis.

Lots of people will tell you that this and that can't be done. It's usually the ones who don't have much experience telling you this though, so make sure you try it for yourself.

You asked about generating capital before you expand. If everything were ideal you would have the capital you could use to expand. But you know that things are rarely ideal. Keeping that in mind, the proper use of credit and debt is the key to expanding without having to wait to save up your own capital. Remember, as long as the profit covers the expenses (including interest on loans), you come out ahead.

 

[Giovanni Casanova]

Originally posted by STR8UP
Gio would rather let a profit pass him by than pay what HE feels is an exorbitant interest rate. Now THAT makes a lot of sense! Make 100% of ZERO rather than 1% of SOMETHING. I'm sure most of you who are reading this are intelligent enough to understand why A LITTLE is better than NOTHING.

Yes, but how many are smart enough to figure out this equation?

You buy a piece of property for $100,000. You keep it for a year believing it will increase in value by 50% in that time, allowing you to sell it for $150,000.

If you can get a loan for 5%, causing you to pay back $5,000 (for simplicity's sake), that's a profit of $45,000. That's better than paying 25% interest, paying back $25,000, and making a profit of $25,000. As you say, any idiot can figure that out.

Furthermore, if one cannot get a loan at anything less than 25%, then that loan would be the smart move, ASSUMING that everything laid out in this scenario is guaranteed, which it is NOT.

Here's what it takes a very special idiot to not be able to figure out -- if that property's value "only" increases 10% over the year, the guy who bought at 5% still makes a $5,000 profit, while the moron who bought at 25% is $15,000 worse off than when he started. And if the property value DECREASES for some reason, both people lose money, but the 5% guy loses a lot less. The problem with those financial geniuses from the 90s as well as you is that incapability of realizing that there are no guarantees.

And it's possible that there's someone else reading this that realizes that 100% of zero is better than paying 25% interest on a $100,000 loan for a property that's worth $80,000 if you sold it today. And although I'm sure this message will be lost on you, there is only so long that real estate prices can rise at paces outstripping the income of the people who buy it before people will stop buying at these artificially inflated prices and the market will correct itself. And not to be mean or anything, but I think it would be really funny if you had your last penny invested in real estate when that happens.

Until you are willing to actually contribute I have nothing else to say to you.

Oh, boo hoo. That really makes me sad. You keep saying that sh*t, but you only do it when you find yourself incapable of dealing with your shortcomings in a logical manner. Look, if you want to save face by pretending you don't see my arguments, the very least you should do IS to stop responding to them. Otherwise, it just looks like you're purposefully avoiding the shortcomings in Carleton Shee-- I mean, your -- plan.

 

[backbreaker]

You make some great points...

To be totally, totally honest, because now that I can honestly say this I want to...

The REAL reason I wanted to start my company, was because I wanted to impress a certain girl...

Of course, I was 18 then and AFC as c ould be...

But that reason didn't last too quickly... Once I s tarted it, quitting wasn't an option... It wasn't a question of WILL I, it was how long it was going to take, because make no mistake, I was going to succeed.


I remember I wanted financial security... and to be 100% honest, If I really wanted to be lazy the rest of my life and not work, I probably wouldn't have to because I know how to make the money I have work for me...


But, with that said, my family, most of them, arent' as well off as I am... My mom is, she makes over 150K a year, and I guess my dad doesn't need much help if any, he makes around 40/50K a year if I had to guess, but both of their parents, my cousins, are not poor, but are stuggling to get by.

My Grandmom was 70 and still working because she couldn't afford to retire... the first thing I did, before I bought anything, was told her to quit working... I slide my other grandmom some money every month to help with the bills so she can work only one job instead of working 2/3 jobs to keep up... My LITTLE cousin, who is I think 18 now, has a 2 year old son and no dad, so besides babysitting from time to time, I help out (even though now she is in the navy and more than take care of herself)...

I guess you can say with more, comes more responsbilities... becuase I couldn't just be spending all of my money on myself, when I have family, close family, struggling to get by...



One key I found out when I was in the mist of building my company, is that you have to learn to enjoy where you are then, to apprciate where you are going... You just can't say "when I get rich, I am going to..." because you wont enjoy it...

even when I worked 17-18 hour days, I found time to cook me a nice meal from time to time, and sit down in front of the TV and watch my Favorate TV show. Might not seem much, but it ment alot to me... and you enjoy it alot more knowing that you havent been sitting in front of the TV all day, but busting your ass..


Also, to be that successful, you have to pretty much abandon your current way of thinking... There are no such things as Saturday or Sunday Off... I havent followed a 5 day work week sechedule since I was 18... Even now I work 7 days a week... Now, from time to time I might take a day off to do something diffrent or because I am drained, but I don't just look at the calander and sit at home all day on Saturdays or Sundays... that's a wasted day.



Honestly, I never understood everyones facination with the Real Estate Business... People act like it's the best thing since sliced bread, but One Diaster/Depression/ETC can leave you Loosing Thousands or Millions...

IN other words, YOU have very little control over if you make money or not... It's all up to the economy... Economy up... more people buy houses, house costs go up... Economy goes down, people don't buy houses, houses sell cheaper if at all, loose money...

As Giovanni pointed out, for that scheme to work, and It could, but EVERYTHING would have to be perfect..

1) Low interest rate

2) People actually buying houses

3) A person actually Likes and buys your house


That's 3 things you that you have little/no control over... Yes the interest rate can go off of your credit, but say, banks need a better Financial Quarter, and they are instructed to raise all future interest rates...


BEcause it's a compound Interest Rate, YOU CAN NOT AFFORD TO KEEP THE HOUSE FOR MORE THAN 1, 2 YEARS MAX, IF THE INTEREST RATE IS EXTREMELY LOW...

But once you start getting in the double digits, you are asking to eventually loose money.

One day I would love to build and own a Medium/Large Apartment Complex... thoose are cash cows...

 

[backbreaker]

and I am not taking sides, but I think on this arguement I see what Gio is saying...

He isn't bitter, or have anything aginast STAR8UP, but all he is sa ying is that Real Estate isn't as easy as Buy Low and Sell High...

that's pretty simplistic...

Real Estate Bank Interest Rates are common to the problem I face when I am horse racing...

Because I make large bets, usualyl in the thounsands, the Goverment takes a whopping 28%, yes, 28% of whatever I win before I can touch it...

Not to mention, the built in Track Takeouts on Mutal Pool Betting, which averages around 18-19% percent.

So in parallel, the "buy low sell high", is just as simplistic as someone telling me "I can do what you do, all you have to do is find horses that can win"...

My mom did what you are talking about for 6 years, I have seen it first hand fall apart... Now, you are not my mom, but my mom is not sloutch, and works for herself making over 150k a year...

What got her is one of the three things we were talking about.. actually FINDING someone to buy the houses she had for sale...

All in all, my mom owned between 10-12 houses before she got to the point where she couldn't pay the banks back and had to file bankrupecy.

But yes, do what you love... there is money in any field...

I would never play the stock market, ,considering the Risk V. Reward ratio, I am alot better off doing what I am doing now... Plus I ran a company... I know what went on behind closed doors.. Compaines don't always do what's in the best interest of their investors/shareholders...

I don't play the stock market, I own some stock, stocks that are pretty much tried and true, and I just collect my dividand checks instead of letting the money sit in the bank.

Now HOW MANY people do you know that have an extra $10,000 laying around LET ALONE $100,000? You are taking for granted that others have the same resources you do. Even if we DID, the way to make money grow is through leverage, not by paying cash for assets.

One Sentence you say you did a good jog turning nothing into something, and the next sentense you say "You are taking for granted that others have the same resources you do"

If that were the case, when I started my company ,we would have tired to get a loan/grant, and when we didn't, woud have thrown in the towel...

Some things take time...

If I had to start with no money, this is exactly what I would do...

1) I would save money, working a regular job, as much as I could when I could... I would then take that money and buy a house, a cheap house, couple of thousands of dollars..

2) I would rent that house out, and while I was renting that house out, I would borrow money using the equity value of the house that I already bought

3) Using the money I am making from renting the home, now homes, I would save up to pay off the bank for the 2nd home I am renting out... These houses shouldn't be more than 20/30k depending on where you live (i know only one of my mom's houses, which was actually a small apartment complex, costs more than 25k).. You should be able to pay it off withina year...

Now, that you have paid off BOTH houses, you can now borrow money using the equity of both houses and buy another house...

Repeat..

Yes, it takes alot longer, I'll give you that, but there is very little way you could loose money or go bankrupt.. AT worse, very very worse, they take teh 1st home you bought if you are not able to pay for the money you borrowed from the bank... but even thenyou are not up to your neck with credit card debt, and that shouldnt happen.

That's similar to the same appraoch that we took.. Instead of throwing money in marketing and hoping sales would get better just becasue we spent more on marketing, and becaue well, we couldn't afford to spend what larger computer compaines could, we made it more EFFICENT...

If you take out a decision to use Computer Shopper Magazine to run ads, which wasn't my decision (if you pick up August-October issues of PC magazine last year, or PC Ads were in there.. and were hands down the best ads in there... I did them all myself... so good that Larger Magazines were calling us trying to get us to use their magazine within 3 days of the first bunch hitting the shelve)

Anyway, ,if you take out that decision, our Average Cost per customer After January 1st 2004, was between $27-35 dollars per customer, depending on the time of the year...

In Contrast, the averge computer company spends Anywhere between $100 and in some instances, $300 per customer (Falcon NW, Alienware)...

Instead of just throwing money into the marketing, we rolled up our sleeves and did it the hard way.

So when we were actually able to just "throw money at it", our returns were GREAT.

 

[backbreaker]

Oh, one more thing before I foget, and I swear this isn't a flame but an honest question, because I was going to ask you but your PM was full.. what exactly DO you do STar8up?

You have a bright mind, and I was just wondering.

 

[sifer]

Originally posted by backbreaker
Honestly, I never understood everyones facination with the Real Estate Business... People act like it's the best thing since sliced bread, but One Diaster/Depression/ETC can leave you Loosing Thousands or Millions...

That's too bad, people don't read. To make it worst, gurus say you can get rich with real estate. And you know what? Yes, I'll type it in cap, YOU CAN GET RICH WITH REAL ESTATE. But nowhere do guru that I know of say you can get rich QUICK. People get in thinking it's quick. They're disillusioned.

As for me, if you want to know, I was raised that way. My father is an architecture. I was given legos to play with when I was younger.

IN other words, YOU have very little control over if you make money or not... It's all up to the economy... Economy up... more people buy houses, house costs go up... Economy goes down, people don't buy houses, houses sell cheaper if at all, loose money...

Actually, you don't seem to be a real estate investor. There are technique on creating a buyer's market or a seller's market on a particular property. Real estate investors make profit no matter where they are or what the condition is.

As Giovanni pointed out, for that scheme to work, and It could, but EVERYTHING would have to be perfect..

Nothing is perfect, people still profit.

One day I would love to build and own a Medium/Large Apartment Complex... thoose are cash cows...

Actually from experience, apartments are harder to invest in and more complex and far more riskier than single house.

Just thought you should know that. They're not cash cow. Single house and 4 units and lower are usually the cash cow.

 

[STR8UP]

Originally posted by backbreaker
Oh, one more thing before I foget, and I swear this isn't a flame but an honest question, because I was going to ask you but your PM was full.. what exactly DO you do STar8up?

You have a bright mind, and I was just wondering.

No offense taken whatsoever.

I have been on my own financially (self employed) for the last 8 or so years. During that time I spent most of my days running my retail business. Bought a few properties just before I got involved in business, but once I had the responsibility of the business the real estate was put on the back burner.

I am now in the process of selling a large portion of my retail business to my working partners and have been concentrating on real estate for the past year or so. Between my biz partner and myself we have managed to pick up 20 condos (a few are pre-construction so they are still in the contract phase) and are working on a commercial property. If you would have told me two years ago that I would have written that many purchase contracts in basically a year I would have told you that you were insane, but somehow we managed to pull it off.

Incidentally, and not that I can convince everyone that this is true or possible or whatever, but if I would have skipped business altogether and kept buying properties (with my no money down technique), my net worth would be many, many times what it is today.

So to answer your question, I am an investor. I don't really consider what I do to be work although I suppose it technically IS, but my "work" only requires me to devote a few hours per week of my time. I make money mainly by signing my name and making phone calls.

That's another thing about business. You mentioned having to work a bajillion hours per week. At this point I wouldn't give up my free time for pretty much ANY amount of money. Business drains you physically and emotionally. The only way I will get involved in business again is from the INVESTOR side of the table.

I actually enjoy developing a concept and consulting, but NEVER AGAIN will I subject myself to actually having to manage the day to day operations. Even if someone offered me $1,000,000 to do it for a year I would have to think about it long and hard before I could justify trading my time and my sanity.

 

[backbreaker]

I swear to god this is my last post, but I was going to start another one, and I thought it would be better here....

I had a sorta eye opening experience today....


Okay, so as everyone knows, I handicap horse races for a living ,and do very well by so...

Now, I am watching the Breeders cup on NBC today... Usually i watch TVG on satlilate, and they aren't as bad, but this was pathetic.


Now, as every last race comes on, these two/three dip****s get in front of the TV Screen and spot out "oh, Lost in the Fog is going to be the winner, this isn't a race, blah blah blah"


I mean, LITF was already a favoite, and at one point I thought he was going to win the race as well.. different story I will hit on later...

Right beforethat, I peeaked at the toteboard, and noticed that other horses were getting play... until the broadcasters came on TV and then LITF got even heavier play...

All because of what two dip**** announcers got in front of National TV and said...

It's ovbious to me neither did their research, because when I did, it was as clear as day that LITF had a) never faced anywhere close to the compition that he did today and b) wasn't the fastest horse in the field, as he usually is...

Now, granted the horse won 10 of 10 lifetime, but all were against Graded 3 year Olds... He was going against G1 Class 3 and UP for the first time, which is a HUGE jump in class.

So what does Lost in the Fog do? He struggles until he gets tot he back stretch, and his jockey, Russell Baze gives him the go, only to start going backwards...

I didn't win that race, but Lost IN the Fog didn' teither...

So after the race is over, Russell Baze the Jockey gets on TV and says something to the account of "yeah, he just wasn't his best today, i mean (and this is my favorate quote in horse racing), that's why it's called horse racing"

What he should have said was "yeah, in all honestly, the owner of this horse is a dumbass for putting up $120,000 to enter a race only paying $500,000, in a race that has horses of the calibur he hasn't ever seen before"

Okay, so we then later on, get to one of the only 2 races I won today...

It's the Breeders Cup Distaff... And there is this horse by the name of Ashado... Now, she is a damn good horse, but she isn't a great horse, and is probably the most inconstant horse I have ever seen..... NeVER seen her run two good back to back races, and I have never seen her win a Grade 1 Race, as this one was today.. I mean, I am sure she has, but everytime I pass up a bet because Ashado is an Even money favoaite in a G1 Race, she gets her ass handed to her

so I tell myself.. not today...I've lost Thousands because of this inconstant ass horse...

So the dip****s get in front of the TV and say "oh, Ashado is the best philly ever (which is an insult to horses as Winning Colors and Silverbulletday) and she is goign to do this and this, blah blah blah)...

(I take that back, Ashado's last race was a G1 that she won, but should have lost because she blocked in Happy Ticket who was gunning her ass down)

This time, I could actually see on the toteboard, where people were thinking like me at first... "damn, I don't want to bet this horse".. Got close to 7/2 for a very, very quick second,... until these dumbasses got on TV and she dropped back down to 2/1...




As for me Pleasant Home was coming out of the toughest prep race, where she had a great showing, and had great workouts, and loved Belmont's race course... becasue no one mentioned her she went off at 31 to 1 paying $62.75 and RUMPED with complete ease, , making me a very, very, very happy man.


The only race they got right was the Classic, where in my opinion, Saint Liam would have to be shot to not win that race... he was heads and sholders above any other horse in the field.. The horse was so good that he toyed with a horse by the name of Roses in May at the beginnig of the year, and Roses in May went on and won the Richest Race in the World, the 6 Million Dollar Dubai Handicapp...

And even then, one of the dumbasses on TV said "well, But Borrego's last race was so damn impressive, I can't bet against him"

Anyone who makes their bets off of exactly what a horse did the other day, is a complete idiot.. they are horses, not people...



So what happens, Saint Liam not only won, he did it going a distance he never had gone before, and did it starting from the 2nd to last post, which is almost impossible at Belmont.... He basically Jogged until he got to the stretch, cut it on, and when Flower Alley showed some compition, Jerry Baily showed Saint Liam the whip, , and the race was over.

(I also won this race to... I usually don't bet on horses with short odds, but this was money in the bank)


So what is my point in behind all of this?

American people are sheep.

Not only are the people too stupid enough to Pick up a Daily Raing Form (I don't even use this, but it's the standard... which is exacltly why I don't use it) and analyize information for themselves...

The Classic had over *$8 Million Dollars, that's right, 8 freaking Million dollars in the Mutal Pool, 1.4 Millon in the Pick 4 Pool, 4.5 Million in the Pick 6, 4.4 Million in the Exacta pool, and 4.2 Million in the Trifecta pool...

In case you don't understand the significance of that, ,and Average Saturday future race day at Belmont, the Mutual Pool MIGHT be $500,000.. And that's at Belmont... The average is probably more closer to $100,000

All of these dumb asses come to the track or bet at home, pretty much putting their opinions on two/three people who don't know what they are talking about... Then when they loose , they are the first people to blurt out "oh, it's impossible to beat the races"


That in a nutshell, is the problem with american society.. Lazy, uneducated and dont' want to think for themselves... To "comfortable" to make a change for the better or to try to do something that might be considered a risk...

Say businesses... Someone may want to start a business... but peer pressure around them says "no, that's too hard.. you are doing fine being a normal ass underacheving ****"...

So lets say he gets past the naysayers and follows though... The first thing he usually does is try to figure out the "secrets" in owing a business.... Okay, I need a business... Ineed money...

So you go to the bank... Get turned down.. Try to raise VC... don't like your idea... Try to go though Angel Investors.... No luck.. Grants? :crackup:


Now, you reach a crossroad... Assuming you didn't get any money or you have none saved up, you really only have 3 options...

1) Quit and say "it's impossible to start a business"

2) Use your home/cars as equity to borrow from your business... yes there are people stupid enough to do this ,even if you have kids... As much as I love myself, If I had kids, I would never put the roof over their heads in jeporady.. now if I was single, I would do it in a blink of an eye.


3) Figure out a way to SAVE or EARN the money necessary


It's usually the people who choose number 3 that succeed...

And not only because of the decsion, before you make a decision, you are going to have to ask myself... Do I want it BAD enough to wait and learn and save THIS LONG if need be, or am I looking for a quick fix?

That's what I had to ask myself when it became apparant no one was going to give us any money.. So instead of *****ing about it, we figured out a way to make our own.

Let me tell yo usomething, about horse racing, because I know so much about it... the only reason there arent more people that do what I do is because the media is so quick to tell you that it's impossible to make aliving doing it... (if people had HALF of the information that was available in the stock market for horse racing, I honestly belive Horse Racing would be the most valauble sport in the world)

First of all, If someone ask what I do for a living, I tell them wihtout hesitiation... I don't care what they say "you gamble, that's bad".. I love what I do, ,and w hen I bring people along with me from time to time to the track, they love it to ,and they all tell me they wish they could do the same..

But when people ask me HOW I do it... I chuckle and say "hard work"

I would NEVER tell someone, somthing that took me the better part of 6 years to master... yes, 6 FREAKIN Years of Loosing race after race, learning more about the game (Even when I had my company, I still studied horse racing, I knew one day this is what I would be doing for a living)

A LONG time of TRIAL and ERROR .... I have a craft that is priceless.. Why would i be so quick to shard that with ANYONE?

Espically when, if I show you what I know, I am taking money out of my own pocket?

the WORLD would I share it?

Unlike the Casino, I am not betting against the Horse Track, I am betting against all of the otehr dumbasses in teh stands and at home... the track is going to get 18 percent of whatever is bet off top anyway (Belmont made 2 million, from the Mutal Pool ALONE just by RUNNING the Breeders Cup Classic race)

So, why would I give you the gun with loaded bullets to shoot me with?

So people have these books about horse racing and "stragities and methods" by authors who have "inside information"... and then wonder why it doesn't work, and are quick to conclude that "it's impossible"


Also, in the Classic, there wa ahorse from New Zealand named StarCraft, whos owner, does exactly what I do, and has made millions upon Millions in his life... He put up 800,000 just so his horse could run in the classic ... and his horse has nevr run on dirt.


Perception vs. Reality

 

[backbreaker]

Originally posted by STR8UP
No offense taken whatsoever.

I have been on my own financially (self employed) for the last 8 or so years. During that time I spent most of my days running my retail business. Bought a few properties just before I got involved in business, but once I had the responsibility of the business the real estate was put on the back burner.

I am now in the process of selling a large portion of my retail business to my working partners and have been concentrating on real estate for the past year or so. Between my biz partner and myself we have managed to pick up 20 condos (a few are pre-construction so they are still in the contract phase) and are working on a commercial property. If you would have told me two years ago that I would have written that many purchase contracts in basically a year I would have told you that you were insane, but somehow we managed to pull it off.

Incidentally, and not that I can convince everyone that this is true or possible or whatever, but if I would have skipped business altogether and kept buying properties (with my no money down technique), my net worth would be many, many times what it is today.

So to answer your question, I am an investor. I don't really consider what I do to be work although I suppose it technically IS, but my "work" only requires me to devote a few hours per week of my time. I make money mainly by signing my name and making phone calls.

That's another thing about business. You mentioned having to work a bajillion hours per week. At this point I wouldn't give up my free time for pretty much ANY amount of money. Business drains you physically and emotionally. The only way I will get involved in business again is from the INVESTOR side of the table.

I actually enjoy developing a concept and consulting, but NEVER AGAIN will I subject myself to actually having to manage the day to day operations. Even if someone offered me $1,000,000 to do it for a year I would have to think about it long and hard before I could justify trading my time and my sanity.

Damn, 20 condos, that's pretty good..

LIke I said, I'm no where near as knowledable on REal Estate as I am with Computers or Horse RAcing...I can write a book on either... so If I am wrong on anything, by all means, explain to me.

I have free time, but I tend to spend it all or most of it at the Race Track now... half of the time I am not even betting.. I just love the envrioment that much....

My next project that I k now I am going to be working on, besides buying a few more properities to rent out, is starting an Indpendant record label for my two friends... They are both extremely talented musicans and they have been shopping their CD around to the major labels, and even have had a couple of offers...

One day we all were sitting around and they were explaining to me how the business of music works and that if you are an Independant label, you get WAY more money that the avarege recording artist (usually 7-8 per cd for independnt vs. 1-2/3 dollars per CD if you are not independant and singed to a record company)

And then I said... "Dude, if that is the case, why are you shopping your record around trying to "signed" if you KNOW where the money really is?"

And one of them said, remember, we are all best friends, "uhh.. damn, that's a good question... I guess because we don't have the money to go INdependant"

So I asked them "So how much are you talking about"

So he did the quick math "I don't know exacty but, maybe a hundred thousand or so to start off"

So I say "and you never thought to ask me for the money?"

He says "Actually I didn't, you want to?"

So I say "Sure"

so we went over a basic guideline, and started an actual company... Because they are my best friends and because welll.. I don't need the money in any way, I told them to just give me a share of the company, and let me recop my initial investment.

So as we speak, they are wraping up their first real album, and it's freakin unreal. It's Rap, but it's not Gansta Rap... IT's alot like Kayne West (my friends are very, ,very talented) exactly they can actually rap... Even get regular rotation down here..

So their first CD drops hopefully in the middle of January.