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Michael Ruppert - Peak Oil, collapse

Mr.Positive

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Espi said:
Point being: LIFE GOES ON. WITH OR WITHOUT OIL.
Whoa. I haven't even read the responses AFTER this point, but feel the need to repond to it.

What is your cell phone made of? plastic, oil product. Everything you eat, oil. Your clothes, oil. The keyboard you are typing this nonsense on, yup, oil. You, me, we are all....a slave to oil.

Remember the saying by another well respected poster, anything you can not say NO to is your master, and you are it's slave.

We are all slaves to oil. Not a minute goes by where you are not in contact with either a product made of oil, a product made from energy using oil, food from energy made of oil, or just oil, in your cars, the lights in your home...

Now, think on this for a minute.....most of our oil is foreign. Yes, we many have reserves in the ground months/years away. There's always more oil right? :)

What happens, when oil tankers can not get into Louisiana and offload their oil to feed our massive consumption? Logistically, this is a nightmare. Yes there's other routes, other ports, but this is a major disruption that could take months to logistically figure out.

Our air, is then cut off. We start getting strangled.

Oil $200 a barrell overnight.

What happens to the economy "at that moment". Pump prices skyrocket, joe commuter struggling with is mortgage that's underwater is done. He then, drops his mortgage to move closer to work. Multiply that by the thousands. Food prices, will skyrocket.

Oil is in every part of our lives. You cut that air off...you ever see a man's face when he doesn't get enough oxygen? Not a good thing to see....it's panic, to survive.

Just saying...read this:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100611/ap_on_sc/us_sci_oil_in_everything
 
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Mr.Positive

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Mistic said:
Hey Mr. P. Dong Fu here from the site formally known as NLG. You need to be gettin out of the Bay Area man. Are you still a cop? DO you get any insider info on whats going on.

Also, your argument with drum n bass in the beginning of this thread doesn't make any sense.
Hey Dong, I may have been hard on drum, but it seemed to me like he was derailing the thread.

I like where I live. :) Went surfing the other day, wouldn't give it up for nothing. :D
 

Mistic

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Mr.Positive said:
Hey Dong, I may have been hard on drum, but it seemed to me like he was derailing the thread.

I like where I live. :) Went surfing the other day, wouldn't give it up for nothing. :D

Cool man. You know in Hawaii, so no shortage of surf here. What are you wearing, a 20 mill dry suite up there? Ha ha just kidding.

Maybe I missed something, but it seems drumnbass basically agreed that the video was shocking and said he was gonna stay tuned with his website. When I think of derailing, I think LMS PRL type derailment. I guess my tolerance level is just high after dealing with that guy. Cheers.
 

Razor Sharp

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DanelMadr said:
First Republic is necessary, you can't have a "democracy" where you have to ask for permission for everything. It would be unmanageable and stupid - it would take ages to decide and people don't have time to be experts in economy, defense etc. they pay the government to do that for them.
I agree, but they should also be able to choose the folks that make those decisions. It's fairly obvious that this "choice" is nothing more than an illusion. Elections are rigged in this country. Dead people vote and black people's vote's were tossed in 2000 AND 2004. That is a serious problem that not enough people talk about!

Smaller components? Your enemies would crush you in a day. Not talking about inability to maintain order in the world - merchant routes...even more chaos.
We survived for thousands of years as tribal societies, with trade routes, waging wars, and all with rudimentary tools/technology. I'd also wager that we'd have a lot less enemies if we were not invading sovereign countries and violating the very laws we put in place, *ahem*

Why do you think EU is trying to federalize?
Because its way more lucrative for the 1% at the top. Plain and simple. With the introduction of the Euro, the cost of living has doubled or tripled in some countries. The middle class has all but vanished, where does all that money go?

You almost make me cry. Billions of people would give their left nut to live in a freedom like yours. I lived in totalitarian state and believe me you can feel the difference. Don't call for revolution when you can get elected and change that. Oh you can't? Thats because majority is not on the same wave.
Plenty of people feel this way. The problem is that in order to even make the running, you have to either be filthy rich, or sell out to the very same people who lobby/bribe the government into writing their perverse laws. Look at Obama - he wanted so much to make a difference, and has always talked a good game. But when push comes to shove he works for the same military-industrial complex that Bush did, and is making a lot of the same choices based on that. (especially concerning foreign policy with oil-rich countries)

It is not capitalism. It is modern economy based on free market. And especially in US you can go from 0 to million if you have the right ideas. In other countries you would add up bribes and AK47 to achieve something.
I agree it's the biggest selling point of this country, and the main reason I still live here. But whether you call it capitalism or a "free market economy", it is still based on a model of infinite growth/resources, which is a flawed and dangerous assumption.

Oh common. You have your checks and balances.
LOL - Now that's funny! Thank you for the belly laugh and excuse me while I wipe this tear....

You don't think that legislative, judicial and executive branches all bow to the almighty dollar? The Federal Reserve is what runs this nation, and it is a PRIVATE institution that is not at all regulated - it can do what it pleases at any given time, and all three branches can do nothing more than bend over and take it. This is why I believe America died in 1913. That unique balance of power which made this nation so great was effectively destroyed the moment that the majority of the nation's control was put into the hands of a powerful minority. Ever since then we have become a dictatorship disguised as a democracy.

Germans, Russians who occupied my country made sure that everyone disposed of their guns. You can't have a dictatorship with population having significant firepower. Hold on to the right to carry.
Hear hear! *raises AK-47 in salute*

I don't know man. it could have been risky but it certainly made you prosper for half a century. Is there a better financial system? I don't know any.
Actually America was quite wealthy before the Fed was instated. It got that way by people developing currencies based on local resources. In some places metals were the hot commodity, in others food/produce and in others it was textiles & furs. If you did use plain old dollars, they were backed by actual gold. Point is people traded something of TANGIBLE value.

Today's dollar bill is backed by nothing more than collective debt, along with the empty promise that it's worth something. To make matters worse, that value has steadily plummeted as the Fed prints more money and inflated the currency at their leisure.

Except what I heard in one critique of FR by some commies. The proposed to get rid of money and use work coupons - I give you a car and you will work for me for 10 month. Fvcking ridiculous. Basically making people slaves.
What do you think people are right now? The amount of personal debt in this country is staggering. I have friends who will be paying off their CCs and mortgages (with crazy interest) for the rest of their natural lives - how is that any better?

He said that? I refuse to believe he knew at that time about inflation, corporation or even homeless
The guy practiced law, served many public offices and authored the Declaration of Independence. He knew/saw a lot of things that the people of his time didn't, which is why he is still hailed as a visionary. He has some of the best quotes of all time. Check em out http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quotes_by/thomas+jefferson

Here is another gem:

We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our election between economy and liberty or profusion and servitude. If we run into such debt, as that we must be taxed in our meat and in our drink, in our necessaries and our comforts, in our labors and our amusements, for our calling and our creeds...[we will] have no time to think, no means of calling our miss-managers to account but be glad to obtain subsistence by hiring ourselves to rivet their chains on the necks of our fellow-sufferers... And this is the tendency of all human governments. A departure from principle in one instance becomes a precedent for[ another]... till the bulk of society is reduced to be mere automatons of misery... And the fore-horse of this frightful team is public debt. Taxation follows that, and in its train wretchedness and oppression.

You live in the best country. You take my place I take yours, what do ya say?
Haha, no thanks dude. It is a great country and I would love to see it prosper again. But history is showing us that huge, monolithic governments just can't shake off the corruption. It's too far removed from the very people it is designed to serve in order to place their interests over its own.

Right now the government itself has gotten too big for its britches, building shady alliances with businesses that collide with the average american's concerns. We divorced ourselves from the church for this very reason, only to end up replacing the wealth and influence of religion with defense contractors, oil moguls and corporate leeches. This has to change if we want to stay on the path that got us so much freedom to begin with.
 

If you want to talk, talk to your friends. If you want a girl to like you, listen to her, ask questions, and act like you are on the edge of your seat.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

Quiksilver

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Germans, Russians who occupied my country made sure that everyone disposed of their guns. You can't have a dictatorship with population having significant firepower. Hold on to the right to carry.
yep ;)

I make sure to exercise my right, was one of the first things I did in this country. I have a few firearms and take them to the range regularly. There's some good, honest, and knowledgeable folks in the shooter clubs here who really care about society and can see through the bull****. Australia has harsh firearms restrictions, not ideal but there are worse countries out there for sure.

Don't listen to the anti-gun lobby, it sounds good on the surface but over time EVERY society that surrendered their firearms has come to regret it. I'm on the side of history and the decisions that got us this far, not "new age" untested ideals imagined by those who don't understand sacrifice and the price of personal liberty.

wow, doesn't take long to jump off onto a tangent!

"'Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest."

- Ghandi
 

DanelMadr

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Razor Sharp said:
I agree, but they should also be able to choose the folks that make those decisions. It's fairly obvious that this "choice" is nothing more than an illusion. Elections are rigged in this country. Dead people vote and black people's vote's were tossed in 2000 AND 2004. That is a serious problem that not enough people talk about!
Oh come on. Even if 1000 votes were rigged, it wouldn't change a thing. Choice is an illusion because Dem and Reps will do the same thing when shyt really hits a fan. They are both the middle way...sort of :) Who else? Except Libertaninans...I like em but they would fvcked up the world with their isolationism.

We survived for thousands of years as tribal societies, with trade routes, waging wars, and all with rudimentary tools/technology.
Survived...
I'd also wager that we'd have a lot less enemies if we were not invading sovereign countries and violating the very laws we put in place, *ahem*
Americans are hated and will be hated. Because they invaded or because they did not ;) There are people out there who will hate you just because you are big, wealthy and powerful.

Because its way more lucrative for the 1% at the top. Plain and simple. With the introduction of the Euro, the cost of living has doubled or tripled in some countries. The middle class has all but vanished, where does all that money go?
Actually federalization is opposed by local politicians....mainly because they won't be the big fish in little pond anymore. And it is harder to enjoy corruption with federal government breathing on your neck. Euro is necessary because you have to play by the rules....which Greece did not. My country don't want Euro. Why? Because we are in dept. Politicians want to be in debt - bribing voters. And they have more power when they control currency and don't have to play by the rules.
If you want to have Euro you can't be in deficit. Unfortunatelly the local states are cheating. And those who are not...well now their citizens can see how they were all living in lie - unnatural currency exchange rates before Euro. Social politics in EU are big problem...too much spending only to live the socialist dream. And later generations will have to pay.

Plenty of people feel this way. The problem is that in order to even make the running, you have to either be filthy rich, or sell out to the very same people who lobby/bribe the government into writing their perverse laws. Look at Obama - he wanted so much to make a difference, and has always talked a good game. But when push comes to shove he works for the same military-industrial complex that Bush did, and is making a lot of the same choices based on that. (especially concerning foreign policy with oil-rich countries)
That's real politic. Obama can do shyt. Why? Because in the end of the day if you dismantle industrial-military complex you can just as well nuke your own country. They do what is absolutely necessary and sometimes a little this and that.

I agree it's the biggest selling point of this country, and the main reason I still live here. But whether you call it capitalism or a "free market economy", it is still based on a model of infinite growth/resources, which is a flawed and dangerous assumption.
It is not flawed. It only seems flawed because of oil shortage. But we will evolve and use something better like cold fusion or whatever. But you can't skip from horse to shuttle. One day we will leave our planet with dying sun and head somewhere else ;) And we have to growth to do it.

LOL - Now that's funny! Thank you for the belly laugh and excuse me while I wipe this tear....

You don't think that legislative, judicial and executive branches all bow to the almighty dollar? The Federal Reserve is what runs this nation, and it is a PRIVATE institution that is not at all regulated - it can do what it pleases at any given time, and all three branches can do nothing more than bend over and take it. This is why I believe America died in 1913. That unique balance of power which made this nation so great was effectively destroyed the moment that the majority of the nation's control was put into the hands of a powerful minority. Ever since then we have become a dictatorship disguised as a democracy.
It is strong words. I don't think it is that bad. Dictatorship looks different. And I assure you if someone comes with a better idea how to manage finance with smooth transition, they will all be jobless.

Hear hear! *raises AK-47 in salute*
Actualy AK is shyt. But it is cheap and your local blacksmith can repir that.

Actually America was quite wealthy before the Fed was instated. It got that way by people developing currencies based on local resources. In some places metals were the hot commodity, in others food/produce and in others it was textiles & furs. If you did use plain old dollars, they were backed by actual gold. Point is people traded something of TANGIBLE value.
Today's dollar bill is backed by nothing more than collective debt, along with the empty promise that it's worth something. To make matters worse, that value has steadily plummeted as the Fed prints more money and inflated the currency at their leisure.
I'm not economist but I read something when the crisis hit us. And I was asured this view of things is a bit off. Once again...it is all about expectation. When the bank expects you to prosper...they "print" the money and borrow it to you. Basically there is not enough gold to back up every business idea. It is about expectations. However this needs to be regulated and transparent. Clinton actually deregulated financial houses...the regulation was on them after the big crisis before WW2 for a reason. I don't remember exactly but it was something about seperating commercial and other banking activities.
What do you think people are right now? The amount of personal debt in this country is staggering. I have friends who will be paying off their CCs and mortgages (with crazy interest) for the rest of their natural lives - how is that any better?
They made a choice. Nothing extraordinary. In my country it standard practice to pay for the house the whole life. Sell the house and move somewhere cheaper or get a better job.

The guy practiced law, served many public offices and authored the Declaration of Independence. He knew/saw a lot of things that the people of his time didn't, which is why he is still hailed as a visionary. He has some of the best quotes of all time. Check em out http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quotes_by/thomas+jefferson

Here is another gem:

We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt....
I know he was a genious. And he was right. Keep the government at bay and take responsibility (freedom). Look at Europe...horrible taxation, intrusive government and sheep who just chew on grass government brought under their noses. I think it is still a feudal thinking. Our lord from castle will take care of us...

Haha, no thanks dude. It is a great country and I would love to see it prosper again. But history is showing us that huge, monolithic governments just can't shake off the corruption. It's too far removed from the very people it is designed to serve in order to place their interests over its own.

Right now the government itself has gotten too big for its britches, building shady alliances with businesses that collide with the average american's concerns. We divorced ourselves from the church for this very reason, only to end up replacing the wealth and influence of religion with defense contractors, oil moguls and corporate leeches. This has to change if we want to stay on the path that got us so much freedom to begin with.
Local politics, man. Local politics. It does exists. And it works if people put effort to it. And federal oversight to make it even better.

Yeah money still mean power. It is bad probably but in USA it is not that bad. People with money have money for a reason...they deliver and they create jobs. What is bad when they got their money illegaly. In my world power means money and it is much worse. And too much of the rich people got their money by questionable ways. But it will change.
 

Razor Sharp

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Solid viewpoints DM, some I agree with and others not so much. I could elaborate more, but we've already derailed this thread sufficiently it seems. I'm still waiting for Mr. Positive to weigh on on some of these points and that won't happen if this thing stretches on for 12 pages :p

I suppose we could start a new thread about capitalism, democracy and such but if Im not mistaken those type of discussions are not allowed here. Interesting that the moderators let this one go on as much as it has. Maybe if more of us have thought-provoking, civilized discussions like these, the policies will change.
 

Bible_Belt

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If biofuels like algae cost roughly $6-8 per gallon, wouldn't that be the limit on the price of oil? As soon as another fuel is cheaper, we would simply switch. The only thing preventing that switch right now is that petroleum fuel still costs half as much as biofuel.

I realize that the world doesn't have enough food to use only food for fuel, but algae as a fuel source is very promising, especially because it can be grown in land that is now considered non-arable.
 

synergy1

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Bible_Belt said:
If biofuels like algae cost roughly $6-8 per gallon, wouldn't that be the limit on the price of oil? As soon as another fuel is cheaper, we would simply switch. The only thing preventing that switch right now is that petroleum fuel still costs half as much as biofuel.

I realize that the world doesn't have enough food to use only food for fuel, but algae as a fuel source is very promising, especially because it can be grown in land that is now considered non-arable.
Pretty much. Industry experts expect that algae derived fuels would need subsidies to compete with petrol. Yes, even after the BP incident, regular petrol will still be cheaper than algae fuel. This is because the technology has not yet been scaled to commercial production, although in 5 years expect companies have viable processes to do so. The pentagon is aggressively seeking this technology and wants to fuel 50% of their fleet with it. Airlines are also buying into it - the first 100% algae fuel commercial test run was just performed last week.

The sooner we move away from corn ethonal the better. they want to mandate the E15, or 15% C.E. Since its energy content is lower, basically it means you have to fill up more and that your engine is burning something it wasn't designed too. All you people with old lawn mowers etc, expect them to break down if this B.S passes.
 

You essentially upped your VALUE in her eyes by showing her that, if she wants you, she has to at times do things that you like to do. You are SOMETHING after all. You are NOT FREE. If she wants to hang with you, it's going to cost her something — time, effort, money.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

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