Men should be even more aware of their age than women

[AureliusMaximus]

marry a virgin

With modern women (In their 20´tes, 30'ties e.g. Millennials/Gen Z), virginity is true unicorn that really doesn't exist anymore.
They all have a very high body count regardless of the numbers they tell you.

 

[pipeman84]

Love ya @pipeman84 but we will never agree on this.

We don't have to agree, we're all different and we each have our own preferences.

With modern women, virginity is true unicorn that really doesn't exist anymore.
They all have a very high body count regardless of the numbers they tell you.

Firstly, I think you're projecting again from your experience and that of red pill gurus.
Secondly, marrying a high body count woman makes no logical sense to me, so whatever problems you get down the road, it was all predictable.

 

[Jake_Gyllenhaal69]

There's a reason traditionally prestigious professions are increasingly filled with immigrants -- they hail from patriarchal cultures where legitimate achievement and sexual success still correlate positively. Boomers love to point out how "lazy" and "entitled" the new generations are -- they're far less interested in talking about the incentives the latter are responding to.

He's white lol

 

[Jake_Gyllenhaal69]

What about something in between?

Not a virgin but a woman with a low body count (less than 5) due to having a few long term relationships that didn't work out for whatever reason?

That's reasonable, any woman with a higher count than 10 loses the ability to properly pair bond and it starts showing in her demeanor and appearance.

 

[pipeman84]

What about something in between?

Not a virgin but a woman with a low body count (less than 5) due to having a few long term relationships that didn't work out for whatever reason?

Or would you prefer a woman with no relationship history?

No judgment, just asking. I forgot if we've discussed this previously.

Since I read that post of yours a few months back that led me to opening my thread about past sexual experiences of a potential wife, I kept pondering on the subject and for me she has to be a virgin. I've collected and processed a lot of data on this, and that's the only conclusion that computes, for me.

I also wrote somewhere else that a good girl can make a mistake once, twice if she's a slow learner/has bad luck so if someone asked me for advice, I'd say he has to be her third, at the most.

 

[DreamAgain]

OP your theory is wrong on so many levels. Its not dangerous. Lol
Thats funny though.
If you think that any relationship is EVER void of transaction I can't take you serious or you have not had much experience in the LTR stuff.

First of all you have to give value to get value. Thats as solid as gravity.
Men carry the burden of performance and that in itself is 1 half of the transaction.

Women wont stay with shlups. And I would venture to say this mystical "good girl" you are saying you must find when young can just as much be ruined by 40 by staying with that same shlup for 15-20 years.
Value in value out

Lol great, have a nice day sir.

Learn what conditional and transactional mean and why they are different.

You completely misunderstood everything and obviously reading comprehension wasn't your strong suit in school.

 

[AureliusMaximus]

I think you're projecting again from your experience and that of red pill gurus.

No red pill "gurus" here so please drop that idea.

What I said is all well vetted and proven these days. The facts are easy to find on the internet.
Modern women have a way higher notch count than in the older days.

Secondly, marrying a high body count woman makes no logical sense to me

It makes no sense to no man.
It doesn't matter if you ask an older gent that is in his 80-90´tes or if it is the guy which is a young blood, only 15 years old. They will all say the same thing which is that they want a woman with as low body's as possible, virgin if possible.

 

[patb]

He's white lol

That doesn't really speak against what I'm saying. Some of us are slower to respond to signals than others.

 

[AureliusMaximus]

He's white lol

Why pull the stupid color card out of the deck at all?

Race doesn't matter.

One thing I never understood is why race is such a big thing in the US. Its so overblown to epic proportion that it is ridiculous.
In Europe where I live it has never been a thing and I really never thought about it. Neither has my friends or people I know in general.

 

[patb]

Why pull the stupid color card out of the deck at all?

Race doesn't matter.

One thing I never understood is why race is such a big thing in the US. Its so overblown to epic proportion that it is ridiculous.
In Europe where I live it has never been a thing and I really never thought about it. Neither has my friends or people I know in general.

Everything is overblown to epic proportions in America: race, cheeseburgers, personal vehicles, women. Race grifting is big business here. Careers and fortunes are made off of it.

 

[pipeman84]

What I said is all well vetted and proven these days. The facts are easy to find on the internet.
Modern women have a way higher notch count than in the older days.

I don't really know if that's true or if we're generalizing from a subset of women (those active on social media, party scene etc). You don't see a demure, family oriented girl on any red pill show on YouTube so we conclude they don't exist. Anyway, suppose it's true, just like there are more obese women that in the past. Just as with the obese, the outer signs of the high notch girls are readily visible, so a man who's on the pursuit of excellence can easily avoid them.

 

[DreamAgain]

Don't want to start a war or anything but there's another side to NOT wanting to marry a virgin I've heard from men, @Pandora being one but there are others, on and off SS.

When you marry a virgin you run the risk of later down the road, her experiencing FOMO and wanting to see what else is out there.

Given you're the only man she's ever been with.

This is very real possibility and seen it happen.

With a woman who's had a few long term relationships that included sex, but they didn't work out for one reason or another, which is why we date prior to marriage - to determine the best "fit" the best person for us - she's dated/had sex with a few men and when she meets the man she decides to marry, she KNOWS though her past experiences, HE is the best man for her.

No FOMO in later years.

Just another way of looking at it, that's all.

That is a fair point you make.

My only response is, you kind of made the counter argument self evident.

The whole point for a woman being a virgin is she is saving himself for the best guy that she thinks is worthy of being with. It's a one shot deal so she must take a leap of faith with the guy.

For the guy he should respect this and be the best version of himself to hold himself to that standard that she found him to be worthy of in the first place.

If she is not sure of the guy, she moves along, and neither party wastes each others time.

 

[pipeman84]

Don't want to start a war or anything but there's another side to NOT wanting to marry a virgin I've heard from men, @Pandora being one but there are others, on and off SS.

When you marry a virgin you run the risk of later down the road, her experiencing FOMO and wanting to see what else is out there.

Given you're the only man she's ever been with.

This is very real possibility and seen it happen.

With a woman who's had a few long term relationships that included sex, but they didn't work out for one reason or another, which is why we date prior to marriage - to determine the best "fit," the best person for us - she's dated/had sex with a few men and when she meets the man she finally decides to marry, she KNOWS though her past experiences, HE is the best man for her.

No FOMO in later years.

Just another way of looking at it, that's all.

This argument is dynamite, I too fell for it for a while, it has a superficial logic that looks unbreakable. But if you really think about it, it reveals itself as the giant with feet of clay that it really is.

Firstly, if the woman has a string of failed past relationships, how can the man take at face value any manifestations of love from her (words such as 'i love you', 'sweetie' etc).... I mean, if I heard 'i love you' I would immediately think...yeah, you said that to 4 guys before me, so that's meaningless. 'Oh baby, you're so good in bed'....yeah right, the previous 4 schmucks heard the same.

Secondly, the farther away she is from virginity, the less loyal she's proven she is. Loyalty is top quality for a wife...not only to be sure that those kids are yours, but also that she doesn't break the family when the kids are 5 and 6yrs old.

Thirdly, re FOMO:

And regarding the sexual curiosity argument, this could happen with anyone. In fact, I'd argue it's more likely to happen with a girl who has a history of promiscuity, because this is a bridge she's already crossed. When you take a girl's virginity (especially within an LTR/marriage) you are imprinting yourself on her, and unless you allow some massive value disparity to occur (like becoming a stay-at-home dad or a total loser), she just has no emotional impetus to go out looking for a bigger better deal.

 

[Jake_Gyllenhaal69]

Why pull the stupid color card out of the deck at all?

Race doesn't matter.

One thing I never understood is why race is such a big thing in the US. Its so overblown to epic proportion that it is ridiculous.
In Europe where I live it has never been a thing and I really never thought about it. Neither has my friends or people I know in general.

Chill the fvck out lol. It's a response to @patb

That doesn't really speak against what I'm saying. Some of us are slower to respond to signals than others.

I read immigrants and I thought you assumed he was some brown immigrant doctor guy.

 

[AureliusMaximus]

Don't want to start a war or anything but there's another side to NOT wanting to marry a virgin I've heard from men, @Pandora being one but there are others, on and off SS.

When you marry a virgin you run the risk of later down the road, her experiencing FOMO and wanting to see what else is out there.

Given you're the only man she's ever been with.

This is very real possibility and seen it happen.

With a woman who's had a few long term relationships that included sex, but they didn't work out for one reason or another, which is why we date prior to marriage - to determine the best "fit," the best person for us - she's dated/had sex with a few men and when she meets the man she finally decides to marry, she KNOWS though her past experiences, HE is the best man for her.

No FOMO in later years.

Just another way of looking at it, that's all.

True there is a balance to everything. I was also speaking in the greater general terms. Not myself specific although neither am I interested in a 304.

 

[AureliusMaximus]

Chill the fvck out lol. It's a response to @patb



I read immigrants and I thought you assumed he was some brown immigrant doctor guy.

I'm chilled as ice in Antarctica bruh.
It was also a question in itself if you didn´t catch it. Cuz I never understood it why it is such big thing in USA.

 

[AureliusMaximus]

He got sex on demand for 30 years (I assume),

Yeah I guess?
But how much of those years that was the starfish position, right?

But agreed though; he's lucky man in other areas (hopefully), blessed with some wonderful children, money to support himself and his kids, and grand kids ect. comfortably which is more than many others couldn't say..

 

[pipeman84]

@pipeman84 relationships can fail for all sorts of reasons, I'm of the belief there are never guarantees, it's all a risk, even marriage is a risk imo.

We do our best but shyt happens sometimes, it's a fact of life.

One or both not keeping their end of the bargain, one or both not respecting boundaries, the man cheats, the woman cheats, communication breaks down, they grow apart.

Failure is not always a bad thing, it's how we learn and grow and make better choices next time.

I respect your opinion though and hope you find what you're seeking.

I agree. Thing is though, what you said above, while perfectly true, affects differently men and women. Here's a couple reasons why:
1. women are responsible for relationships ... so a failed one gets more blame on her than the man (either she didn't vet him properly before entering the relationship or wasn't loyal enough and that's why she broke it)
2. men are valued for experience and maturity, women for innocence and purity (cue the white wedding dress and female virgins being appreciated throughout history). So while 3 failed relationships could be viewed as having increased the man's experience, they're also viewed as having tanked the woman's innocence and purity

 

[pipeman84]

I disagree, relationships are both the man's and woman's responsibility.

A woman might vet properly but later down the road, the man did not live up to his end, broke a boundary, behaved in disrespectful ways, cheated, perhaps even became abusive.

Again, seen it happen, years down the road.

I used to volunteer at a woman's shelter for abused women. These women were giving, loving and loyal AF and I hope you are not suggesting a woman remain in a relationship or marriage where she's been debased, disrespected or abused.

Yeah, of course both of them are responsible, what I meant to say was that relationships are the domain of women. They want to get married, to tie a man down.
Of course I don't suggest women stay in abusive relationships. What I'm saying is that in most cases those abuses were predictable...in other words, the women knowingly tried to tame the wild horse and they failed. Either way, if they were 100% or 0% predictable (the women had bad luck), the end result is that they are left with baggage, and that's not feminine at all.

I'm not suggesting women are angels, women can get bored, cheat, behave in deplorable ways too! In that case, would you say the man didn't vet properly?

Yes, plenty of men don't vet properly. But the lessons learned (hopefully) add to their experience - which is what women seek. It can also turn them in biter losers angry at all women, so it's a double edged sword.

 

[Jake_Gyllenhaal69]

I'm chilled as ice in Antarctica bruh.
It was also a question in itself if you didn´t catch it. Cuz I never understood it why it is such big thing in USA.

Americans cry about everything; it's not just race lol.