Men should be even more aware of their age than women

BeExcellent

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It gets back to the value equation.

@pipeman84 values innocence and purity and is holding out for a virgin who will commit to a 38 year old man. Check. That is what he most values.

@catsmeow2 has a husband who values her life experience more than he values innocence and purity. He’s looking for a partner not a daughter.

My fiancé (46 years old) is similar to Cats husband. Frankly he finds me rather vanilla at times compared to the promiscuous background he’s had. And that is one issue you run into with previously promiscuous men. They like a sexually experienced woman. They expect a woman to know her way around a man, expect her to know how to satisfy him sexually and they have a whole library of bawdy experiences to drawn from. They do not have interest in or patience for a completely innocent woman whose emotional well-being is totally wrapped up in the sexual experience and they do not have the patience to lovingly show a virgin everything she will need to learn in time, never mind the tolerance of whatever fears and hang ups and preconceptions the innocent has about sex.

Men have the fantasy that they will capture a virgin, turn her into his own personal vixen, and it will be perfect. This is largely not how it works. This can be true when BOTH the man and woman are inexperienced and they can learn and bond together without the bias of prior experience. In fact that is the best way I think. But when a large experience gap is present? You are going to often times have a mismatch in expectations and other areas that create challenges you were not expecting.

And even if a woman has had a great marriage let’s say, and a great sexual experience in that marriage and finds herself widowed? She may have only have had one partner, but had sex with that single partner hundreds or thousands of times in the marriage. She is now an experienced woman as far as sex is concerned (and has demonstrated loyalty to death do us part too), but those women are very very rare, and go off the market quickly if they become widows, or they remain forever off the market (like my mother in law) who never felt right about dating or sex with someone else after she lost her husband.

So this is a much more complicated topic than @pipeman84 realizes.

Furthermore I think it is a cope often times for men who are themselves inexperienced sexually and who hide behind the lamentations of purity into their middle age but yet they didn’t make finding that innocent virgin a high priority in youth when they had exposure to such women OR they were not desirable to the women they sought and were not interested in the women who were interested in them.

My 20 year old son does not have this problem. But he’s got his values sorted too. And he is consciously shunning promiscuity for commitment as is his GF (a virgin when he started dating her) and only his 2nd partner.

The fantasy is to have it both ways. But that is often a fallacy.
 
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SW15

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Doctors , both male and female , are notoriously known for having a very bad sex life

So being in the top 1% of salaries is not really helpful in this regards
Female MDs and PhDs are not desired by too many males. There are some mega beta males who think a careerist woman is desirable, but even most betas aren't that excited by them.

Most male doctors I've encountered have been married.

I don't really agree, the transactional type of girls will not gamble like that. Especially over a longer span of years with someone. Maybe if this guy is a future professional athlete she will wait, but a normal guy finishing some degree to work in an office or laboratory I don't think the draw of resources is strong enough, as he won't be rich but simply middle class likely.

Doctors take over 10 years to make money and sometimes even longer, that is a long ass time to wait if you meet in college. She is willing to give up 10 years of her life for some eventual doctor salary percentage? She can find an already done transactional deal with an older guy where she doesnt have to wait and give up her best years.
Rich Cooper believes women wait at the finish line and pick the winners.


Rollo Tomassi believes women in their 20s will commit to a man based on the potential of being a winner.

 

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Rich Cooper believes women wait at the finish line and pick the winners.



Rollo Tomassi believes women in their 20s will commit to a man based on the potential of being a winner.

Yes , both are true

But being a winner is not necessarily linked to the financial aspect

Women think short term mainly ( how is he now ? If he is a winner - like being desired or being considered smart etc , women will link short term with long terms - , it is always a matter of now not in 5 years from now

If short term does not match with long term , then she will find another guy , and things will start from fresh again

Most Future prospects f8ck it up , just look at the pro athletes . Most wonder kinds never last more than a couple of years being a pro
 

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My fiancé (46 years old) is similar to Cats husband. Frankly he finds me rather vanilla at times compared to the promiscuous background he’s had. And that is one issue you run into with previously promiscuous men. They like a sexually experienced woman. They expect a woman to know her way around a man, expect her to know how to satisfy him sexually and they have a whole library of bawdy experiences to drawn from. They do not have interest in or patience for a completely innocent woman whose emotional well-being is totally wrapped up in the sexual experience and they do not have the patience to lovingly show a virgin everything she will need to learn in time, never mind the tolerance of whatever fears and hang ups and preconceptions the innocent has about sex.
Where does this observation come from? When I encounter a sexually experienced woman, the back of my mind does not trust her. I've also taken a girl's virginity before (she was 18 and I was 30) and had an eight month relationship with, and had great sex.
 

BeExcellent

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Where does this observation come from? When I encounter a sexually experienced woman, the back of my mind does not trust her. I've also taken a girl's virginity before (she was 18 and I was 30) and had an eight month relationship with, and had great sex.
From my experience and the experience of people I know well. From observations made by men here for example when they have asked for advice and related experiences from their lives.

I refer to people like my mother-in-law, family members, my fiancé, close friends, and so forth. Some people have a good experience like you did, but why did the relationship with the virgin dissolve after only 8 months? Great. You took a V-card. Why didn’t it work out? Who broke it off and why?

You are demonstrating beautifully my point. You found a virgin. Ok. It didn’t work out for some reason. What is it you value? Not virginity it would appear.

The conquest? I deflowered “X” virgins? I’m asking in earnest because truly if innocence was what you truly value long term? You’d still be with her imparting your wisdom as a mature man & more life experienced partner. You reward her gift that she can only give one time.

So what happened after a mere 8 months?
 

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Plinco

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So what happened after a mere 8 months?
One of the problems that I've encountered with big age gaps, is that a lot of people feel that such an age gap is unacceptable. Her friends were encouraging her to find someone else, and when the relationship had enough of a down moment (when it became work on her part), her friends' advice was more alluring than I was and I caught her cheating on me.

To be clear, I wasn't seeking out a conquest, or for the sake of taking her virginity. What I learned from that experience is that a man needs to protect a woman from herself, and it was a reminder of just how toxic the culture can be.
 

Slowhandluke

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One of the problems that I've encountered with big age gaps, is that a lot of people feel that such an age gap is unacceptable. Her friends were encouraging her to find someone else, and when the relationship had enough of a down moment (when it became work on her part), her friends' advice was more alluring than I was and I caught her cheating on me.

To be clear, I wasn't seeking out a conquest, or for the sake of taking her virginity. What I learned from that experience is that a man needs to protect a woman from herself, and it was a reminder of just how toxic the culture can be.

An average woman has 8 to 10 years of peak attractiveness.. If she spends 6-7 of that with an older guy, by the time her friends' advice becomes undeniable like the siren's song (unless she's completely stupid), she wouldn't follow it... Being in a relationship exacts a toll on everyone... The longer you are in it, the more you have to lose by ending it. Obviously, sometimes people are stupid and don't understand this. But people (women and men) are slowly learning this lesson. Besides, do you really want to be with stupid people? Good ridden, I say...

If the relationship lasts only a year or two, it's not really a relationship; but dating... and one would be unwise to date (or take serious) only one person in the beginning.

 

Stanley

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I'm realizing through this thread and few others that there is a large contingent of posters here that are situationally Trad-Cons. Also a lot of "Having your cake and eating it too" sentiments.
 

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pipeman84

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My fiancé (46 years old) is similar to Cats husband.
He's 7-8yrs younger than you....that alone and I can't relate to him at all. Add to that the fact he's engaged with a woman with children. So it seems like he's looking for a mommy figure (his player past suggests he's insecure), while I'm looking to be a father figure in the relationship (which is in line with masculine-feminine dynamics).
And that is one issue you run into with previously promiscuous men. They like a sexually experienced woman. They expect a woman to know her way around a man, expect her to know how to satisfy him sexually and they have a whole library of bawdy experiences to drawn from. They do not have interest in or patience for a completely innocent woman whose emotional well-being is totally wrapped up in the sexual experience and they do not have the patience to lovingly show a virgin everything she will need to learn in time, never mind the tolerance of whatever fears and hang ups and preconceptions the innocent has about sex.
That makes sense for casual relationships, but when thinking LTR/marriage it doesn't compute. One doesn't have patience to show her how to please each other in the bedroom but will have patience to be a leader in the relationship and deal with all the stuff life throws at them? C'mon. ;)
So this is a much more complicated topic than @pipeman84 realizes.

Furthermore I think it is a cope often times for men who are themselves inexperienced sexually and who hide behind the lamentations of purity into their middle age but yet they didn’t make finding that innocent virgin a high priority in youth when they had exposure to such women OR they were not desirable to the women they sought and were not interested in the women who were interested in them.
I wouldn't say it's complicated, it's different strokes for different folks. And I don't think it's cope to look for purity, it's called being true to yourself and what you're looking for. Re finding the innocent virgin 15yrs ago when the exposure to them was much higher...that's true, but the capacity of handling them wasn't there yet.... it's like with a Ferrari...is a 20yrs old really capable of handling it? More often than not, no.
 

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Plinco

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From my experience and the experience of people I know well. From observations made by men here for example when they have asked for advice and related experiences from their lives.
Since you haven't replied to me, I'll just add this in now to get to my point.

My experiences with people and observing people tell me a completely different story, with a few exceptions. You say you have examples from this forum, can you provide these examples?

You are demonstrating beautifully my point. You found a virgin. Ok. It didn’t work out for some reason. What is it you value? Not virginity it would appear.
No, it does not demonstrate your point. Just because it didn't work out, didn't mean I didn't value it. You're either being stupid or dishonest.
 

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Don't want to start a war or anything but there's another side to NOT wanting to marry a virgin I've heard from men, @Pandora being one but there are others, on and off SS.

When you marry a virgin you run the risk of later down the road, her experiencing FOMO and wanting to see what else is out there.

Given you're the only man she's ever been with.

This is very real possibility and seen it happen.

With a woman who's had a few long term relationships that included sex, but they didn't work out for one reason or another, which is why we date prior to marriage - to determine the best "fit," the best person for us - she's dated/had sex with a few men and when she meets the man she finally decides to marry, she KNOWS though her past experiences, HE is the best man for her.

No FOMO in later years.

Just another way of looking at it, that's all.
Yeh i agree. Virginity is overrated. The most important factor in a woman is her agreeability /submission.

To my surprise many virgins are not submissive. They are arrogant and demanding due to a lack of life experience.

Virginity is valuable because it lessens the chance that she has been alpha widowed. Once a woman has been alpha widowed she is useless to another man.
 

Plinco

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Yeh i agree. Virginity is overrated. The most important factor in a woman is her agreeability /submission.
The more sex partners a woman has, the less agreeable she becomes. That's the whole point. Granted, virginity is not the only factor here, but it's a factor.

To my surprise many virgins are not submissive. They are arrogant and demanding due to a lack of life experience.
Arrogant because they are virgins or arrogant because these are women?
 

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Men have the fantasy that they will capture a virgin, turn her into his own personal vixen, and it will be perfect. This is largely not how it works. This can be true when BOTH the man and woman are inexperienced and they can learn and bond together without the bias of prior experience. In fact that is the best way I think. But when a large experience gap is present? You are going to often times have a mismatch in expectations and other areas that create challenges you were not expecting.
Well, it's not a fantasy, more like what marriage has been about until the very recent past. This BS with women being ran through by several guys while in their prime years (which they euphemistically call gaining life experience and having relationships that ran their course) and marrying when they're 30+ is a travesty and a mockery of the marriage and romantic love concepts. The white wedding dress, the man going to the bride's father to ask permission to marry his daughter are evidence of what I'm saying.

I don't believe the case of high-school/college sweethearts is as ideal as you make it out to be. I have a good friend my age who's been with his wife since they were both 14...and they went through some shyt which would've been avoidable had he been older and more experienced. Generally speaking, the man being older and with more life experience and the woman being a virgin give best odds of happily ever after. That's just logical conclusion if one considers human evolution, male-female dynamics, history.
 

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That's just logical conclusion if one considers human evolution, male-female dynamics, history.
the Homo sapiens are here for like 400k years , never really they were monogamous . People were dying very young and remarrying after in the earlier history ( the church led period )

But even then , you had guys with high social ranking ( like kings , lords , etc ) who would father a lot of bastards outside of the marriage

Through history was always kinda the same script , hotshots we’re having multiple women while guys on the lower ranking did not really have any . This was not a problem as a lot of them would die due to pandemics or wars

Things started becoming a problem when the lifespan increased
 

SW15

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My fiancé (46 years old)
He's 7-8yrs younger than you....that alone and I can't relate to him at all. Add to that the fact he's engaged with a woman with children. So it seems like he's looking for a mommy figure (his player past suggests he's insecure), while I'm looking to be a father figure in the relationship (which is in line with masculine-feminine dynamics).
The guy we're talking about it here gives off the impression of being at least a quasi cuck, if not a full cuck depending on the interpretation of the word cuck.

It's seemingly impossible to positively spin a childless 46 year old man with a woman 7-8 years older who still has one child under 18 living at home.

I wouldn't understand why any desirable childless man would choose a woman with children under 18 still present. A mid 40s childless man is capable of having options with women who are late 30s/early 40s and childless. That's not a big stretch.

It's important to me to be the older one in a relationship. The masculine-feminine dynamics do tend to be off in situations other than that. The same thing happens with women taller than me too. I need to be taller or at a minimum the same height. Women also prefer not to be taller.

I've seen an increase in relationships where the woman is between 6 months-3 years older. While that's not cougar territory, that does throw off the masculine-feminine dynamics. Men have a strong preference to be the older partner. Being with a woman who is even slightly older throws that off a little bit.

Men have the fantasy that they will capture a virgin, turn her into his own personal vixen, and it will be perfect. This is largely not how it works. This can be true when BOTH the man and woman are inexperienced and they can learn and bond together without the bias of prior experience. In fact that is the best way I think. But when a large experience gap is present? You are going to often times have a mismatch in expectations and other areas that create challenges you were not expecting.
I don't believe the case of high-school/college sweethearts is as ideal as you make it out to be. I have a good friend my age who's been with his wife since they were both 14...and they went through some shyt which would've been avoidable had he been older and more experienced. Generally speaking, the man being older and with more life experience and the woman being a virgin give best odds of happily ever after. That's just logical conclusion if one considers human evolution, male-female dynamics, history.
The high school or college sweethearts thing can have some appeal. Eventually, even the passion in those relationships dies out. Most relationships have a shelf life of goodness of around 5 years, regardless of how long the relationship actually lasts. It's not uncommon to see a couple in their 30s who met in high school or college who have been together 10-15 years. They likely have children by the 10-15 year point in their relationship. To the outside world, their relationship would look nearly ideal based on their longevity and the fact they are building a family together. Longevity doesn't mean much other than longevity. However, 10-15 years into a relationship, sex frequency has likely diminished. The typical US marriage in 2021 with partners under age 60 contains less sex in it than the 1989 marriage with partners under age 60. These long marriages with less sex aren't as good as they seem to outsiders because of the less frequent sex and increased levels of stress in most cases.
 

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The more sex partners a woman has, the less agreeable she becomes. That's the whole point. Granted, virginity is not the only factor here, but it's a factor.



Arrogant because they are virgins or arrogant because these are women?
"The more sex partners a woman has, the less agreeable she becomes. That's the whole point. Granted, virginity is not the only factor here, but it's a factor."

This is a fallacy among RedPill guys. I don't disagree with this statement but the truth is very complicated. Yes I agree the more times a woman has been hurt the less agreeable she becomes. Virgins are not inherently agreeable because they are virgins. This myth of a quiet demure village girl virgin is just a myth. Trust me on this. I have dealt with village girls from Russia who never even touched a peniz. They are combative too. I have also dealt with African virgins. They are also annoying as fukk. Sometimes a well seasoned girl is more fun to be around than a virgin. Virgins are usually virgins because of some social akwardness. They are not usually virgins because of some moral principles.


Arrogant because they are virgins or arrogant because these are women?

Virgins tend to be more arrogant because they have very little life experience. They think they know more than you. They have not been humbled by life yet. They often have very unrealistic expectations of a relationship because they have nothing to compare you to. The natural state of the female is to be rebellious and arrogant towards a man. They only become compliant once life has humbled them a little bit. Virgins have not have that happen yet.

Most men who speak on this topic have never dated and fukked a virgin before so they find it hard to believe what I am saying. I would rather have a chill funny women who has had 10 dycks than a " know it all" virgin. Virgins are virgins because of a superiority complex and not because of morals ( usually).

Now if you find a compliant virgin then you are lucky. We have had virgins on this forum before and they were not very submissive. Its all about life experience.
 

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A good example of an annoying virgin is the track runner Lolo Jones. She claims she is a " virgin" but she cant find a man. She is annoying as fukk in interviews. You can tell she has a big superiority complex and is impossible to get along with. This is how many virgins are. Virginity is a small but essential piece of the pie. The main factor is submission. Submission can be gained by the woman being humbled by life.

In an ideal world I would like a virgin. The world is not ideal and many times virgins are not being raised to be submissive. A girl can grow up in a home where she becomes a virgin at 25 but still does not know how to submit. It happens a lot.

 

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Virgins tend to be more arrogant because they have very little life experience.
So a 22yrs virgin is arrogant while a 22yrs who's had sex with 3 different guys is not because she now has life experience? Riding and sucking c0ck is the fast lane to wisdom for women, I presume :rolleyes: :lol:

A good example of an annoying virgin is the track runner Lolo Jones. She claims she is a " virgin" but she cant find a man. She is annoying as fukk in interviews.
Correct, she comes across as masculine.

In a 2012 interview on HBO's "Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel," Jones said her virginity was a "gift I want to give to my husband." 100% the right mindset IMO.

She said: If there's virgins out there, I'm going to let them know, it's the hardest thing I've ever done in my life—harder than training for the Olympics, harder than graduating from college, has been to stay a virgin before marriage. A devout Christian, Jones has previously discussed the central role religion plays in her life from reading the Bible before a race to listening to Christian music.

That shows she doesn't hold out because that's who she is at heart (a traditional, family oriented girl) but because of religion. So her virginity is worthless IMO. It's like a counterfeit Rolex.
 

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Jones has previously discussed the central role religion plays in her life from reading the Bible before a race to listening to Christian music.

That shows she doesn't hold out because that's who she is at heart (a traditional, family oriented girl) but because of religion. So her virginity is worthless IMO. It's like a counterfeit Rolex.
The need of sex is super primal , so a woman who is not having sex most likely is not normal or has a very low low libido

If a woman finds a guy that she finds attractive , she will get wet so the body can accustom the penis . Very raw instinct that can not be controlled

You guys over think this virginity thing
 
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