Martial Arts: Zui Quan

[WORKEROUTER]

Thank you for the replies. I think I should clear some things up.
1. I am doing this for fun and fitness not for self defense
2. I have a few friends who are fairly good in other martial arts (2nd and 3rd degree black belts in Tae Kwon Do (eg 4-8 years)) who could help me with some techniqes and training.
3. I know for sure that there are no Zui Quan Dojos here. There are some TKD and Kung Fu and Boxing but I dont want those.
4. If I seriously do this I am going to study and research and try to set up sparring times.

I would stay away from your TKD friends. They'll probably teach you more harm than good.

If you want to learn how to fight, then you have to step up and take the pain.. You say you don't want to go to a boxing gym. Why not? Are the guys there too tough for you?

I'll tell you one thing though. You train a good year in boxing with some form of ground fighting and you'll be taking any one of your friends out in no time.

If you don't really care about learning how to fight (which is totally fine, btw), then go practice whatever you want to practice. But just remember not to be delusional. Make sure you know that what you're doing is essentially along the same lines of TaeBo in terms of street-effectiveness.

 

[WORKEROUTER]

Iado is pretty bad ass.

But anyways... back to the man's overly stated intention here.

I understand the consensus opinion here of choose another style (cause that one is too specialized and just sorta sucks outside of its extremely random context... and I agree) but lets help the brutha out.

Also... its clear that nobody can effectively and efficiently learn any martial art thoroughly without a Skilled Teacher. But... considering he doesn't have a teacher in this art locally, and is not looking to train in another art... how bout we bring it back to the point at hand.

Where do you think Martial Arts styles were born from?

They were innovated by individuals. Whether the dynamics of the style were drawn from observation of a praying mantis, or the understanding of lifes energy and its flow between polarity (yin/yang). So open your mind's and draw upon yourself as a creative and intelligent source.

So Brian... dig the collective advice here, thats of value to you... and feel this art out, in a way that sincerely satisfies what your looking to accomplish with it.

Other my previous post and some other good advice, that would best set you on your way (in the limited specific context your after). I would reccomend...

-Losing weight
-Checking out some excercises in flexibility and balance. (cause Drunken boxing is seriously fluid random movements)

I would think a sincere effort in Yoga might bring all 3 of those aspects into your body/mind/life.

Not to mention the infinite other benefits as well as BabyDoll Ass in there
Hope this helps you more'

At first, I liked what you are saying. But then, I realized it was all too idealistic.

The whole kung fu/shaolin/ki/inner energy/true self/ninja philosophy makes great additions to MA movies, but the truth is that it's proven itself to be highly effective in actual combat.

I'm not saying it's bad. I'm just saying that when it comes to actual, balls-to-the-walls fighting, it amounts to bullsh*t.

You are helping brian out here by giving him some excellent, creative advice. As long as he keeps in mind that he would get his ass beaten with a skilled fighter, and as long as he's okay with putting his time and energy into something that is ultimately of little combat value, then it's all good.

 

[Enjin 7]

try muay thai if you dont like wearing shorts or you just like showing off "battle scars"

my shins are like 5 different colors right now, ranging from white, red, blue, brown, and black some *****es dig cuts all over your body

 

[Brian20o2]

Thanks for the honest replies. I have no doubt that Boxing, muai Thai, etc are all very effective for fighting. I am not doing this for self defence. I have never been in a fight and usally stay away from dangerous people.

There is some very good advice here and it seems many of you know some stuff. I might take a couple of months of kung fu to get a little knowledge. But classes are so expensive. Usually about 150$ a month.

I guess Ill just do a little reasearch and keep working out at my gym.

 

[flippinfreak]

Yeah, and try to find some cheaper classes...

University classes I think were $60 dollars for 3 days a week for 4 months.

Go to a dojo, and you've got free training supplies, daily classes, teachers and students to ask, and it costs about $50-$60 per month...

look around, can't be that hard to do the research properly. Business directory's, librarys, visitor centres, High school gym teachers, all those places can point you in the right direction.

 

[zip]

In my opinion, Muay Thai is the martial art will give you the best workout.

Go sign up at a legit school. You cannot teach yourself. You are a fool if you think you can.

 

[flippinfreak]

You are a fool if you can think you can push yourself hard enough, correct your poor stance/technique, and know from experience where you are weak...

If you study slowly, but train hard, you will get it over time...

A dojo will definitely speed things up for you though.

He wants it for fun and fitness. I'd take it for the philosophy and flashy show imo.

If there is nobody to teach you, you always have to have a teacher in the back of your mind, and PERFECT the technique, memorize it in your muscles, not your mind, before you decide to move on.

 

[Brian20o2]

I'd take it for the philosophy and flashy show imo.

What philosophy is that? And I am doing It a little bit for show. It is a very interesting topic and if I could do some crazy drunken looking routines that would be cool. But Mainly just for fun.

 

[flippinfreak]

Seriously, that's what I workout for, it's all for the show, and being healthy... being fit isn't too much for me...

Zui Quan to me always meant be different. TKD follows the same path, but TKD says be fluid, which I think is more forward thinking, no living in the present, something which I deeply enjoy.

Zui Quan, drunken Fist, crunken funky monkey boxing, is all about living. Letting your movements react to life. Never showing your true intentions. Non-telegraphic movements. Being drunk means a whole lot more to me than living sober does. Drunken fury, drunken rage, drunken dancing, drunken stumbling, drunken thinking, drunken speech, drunken joy, drunken frustration, drunken interest, and above all drunken humor!

Being able to throw your entire body into the movements is amazing, being able to snap and move according to your opponents energy is admirable, being able to decieve a man when he thinks you are finished is just plain amazing.

Sword style would in my mind be unstoppable, being able to perfect the agility, flexibility and coordination of wushu, and throw it into an unpredictable and mesmerising form is what I think it's all about.

 

[DarkLight]

At first, I liked what you are saying. But then, I realized it was all too idealistic.

The whole kung fu/shaolin/ki/inner energy/true self/ninja philosophy makes great additions to MA movies, but the truth is that it's proven itself to be highly effective in actual combat.

I'm not saying it's bad. I'm just saying that when it comes to actual, balls-to-the-walls fighting, it amounts to bullsh*t.

You are helping brian out here by giving him some excellent, creative advice. As long as he keeps in mind that he would get his ass beaten with a skilled fighter, and as long as he's okay with putting his time and energy into something that is ultimately of little combat value, then it's all good.

It is absolutely idealistic. But in his scenario, with his rigid desire in this style with no teacher... lol, come on dude... what else am I left with?! A miniscule window, where idealism is the only beam of light small enough to pass through, and work with.

In regards to the power of conciousness when mastered being 'bullsh*t"... when it comes to balls-to-the-wall fighting. I have to 100% disagree with you.

I won't for a minute discredit the levels of power that TRUE masters in their art hold. It goes way beyond tactic into the mysteries of conciousness, and the universe itself. Master's are beyond just knowing powerful techniques... they ARE power.

Now on the everyday BS levels of you and I... checkin bunnies out in the mall, etc. Absolutely agree with you. A year in Muay Thai would whoop the ass of a Ba Gua student, or some other internal art.

But there is a threshold... where the one would overtake the other. Its a universal law itself. Water concquers the rock. Just depends on the level of adeptness achieved in the practitioner.

lol... I totally agree with your last paragraph. I'm not looking to delude homey into thinking otherwise. I, as I've stated several times... totally agree with you, that this art for the most part, is a total and utter waste of his time/energy. Like everyone else here... I would suggest a more practical fighting system. As well agree on the infinite value and importance of proper training from a skilled teacher.

My personal suggestion... Muay Thai, Wing Chun, JKD, Krav Maga, and maybe an internal art (Aikido, Ba Gua) to compliment. One or a combo of the above. So... like you mentioned Brian and as your bro's here have advised, def. consider some other options. Surely you can find another teacher/school outside the martial art of TKD locally. Good Luck Man.

 

[Chillisauce]

I won't for a minute discredit the levels of power that TRUE masters in their art hold. It goes way beyond tactic into the mysteries of conciousness, and the universe itself. Master's are beyond just knowing powerful techniques... they ARE power.

But there is a threshold... where the one would overtake the other. Its a universal law itself. Water concquers the rock. Just depends on the level of adeptness achieved in the practitioner.

Have to disagree with this bro, you've bought into the whole mystical bull$hit of martial arts. If that kind of stuff were true, we'd be seeing a bunch of old 'masters' beating the crap out of people in competitions such as UFC, Pride and the such.

 

[flippinfreak]

Have to disagree with this bro, you've bought into the whole mystical bull$hit of martial arts. If that kind of stuff were true, we'd be seeing a bunch of old 'masters' beating the crap out of people in competitions such as UFC, Pride and the such.

From what I know about my sifu's, they wouldn't degrade themselves by joining any entertainment fighting system...

Though, if they were to join, they'd get their asses kicked, they're past their prime, and a new age of MMA has arisen.

All along you guys have been going off talking about fights this, strength that, wuhsu/kung fu/eaight immortals crossing sea cr@p.

He's not into that, all he wants are the deceptive movements, and to gain a little fitness.

Zui Quan is a specialized art. It is one of the final forms of the art you learn in wushu style. It takes great flexibility, wrist and hand power, and requires an overall suppleness to your body.

It's good as just a general sport for you to practice...

Who in their right minds would go into a UFC cage match armed to the teeth with battle armor and broad swords?

Exactly... nobody in their right mind, but people still spar and practice with spears, swords, staffs and fans. Blind people practice Taichi, they aren't going to try and pulling some clouds from their ass. Ten year old kids know capoeria and wushu, think they are going to go out and wail on their friends?

To most sane and normal people, they are NOT going to go out and fight with this stuff. They DON'T CARE!!!!

edit: There is already a thread to argue over fighting arts. This is a thread to ask how a person can train in a single art...

Okay, the art has been dead for a thousand years, and a new student finds buried teachings that will take years of practice. How does he perform the movements without a dojo there to train him?

 

[DarkLight]

From what I know about my sifu's, they wouldn't degrade themselves by joining any entertainment fighting system...

Though, if they were to join, they'd get their asses kicked, they're past their prime, and a new age of MMA has arisen.

Agreed... I don't think anyone of the level of mastery I'm speaking of, would care to (or feel the need) to step into a UFC cage. Thats like telling an enlightened monk to enter a debate contest. lol, ridiculous.

Now would Ladell stomp some adepts in the ring... absolutely. But I'm saying... if it was otherwise, just in life scenarios... trust that the master would have the perception to wield circles around him in life. Wether it be deception, dominating pychic power, etc..

I think your forgetting the spirit it takes to transcend oneself, and face the eternal death of truth. I cannot even begin, nor fathom the power such a transformation would yield.

And this isn't being lost in esoteric bullsh!t. This is as plain everyday sh!t as nuclear power plants, splitting atoms. I'm merely just appreciating it as such.

I've spent my dues in this realm. Been meditating for ages, spent a year in India doing nothing but, practiced for years interspersed in Aikido, Shaolin Kung-Fu, Muay Thai and yoga. And have seen, experienced some amazing sh!t in all these worlds.

I don't for a minute discredit the strength of a UFC fighter and ferocious strength in a ring, but in the same token... nor do I discount the man whos been practicing his art for 35+ years, entering his spirit in fearless meditation, and experiencing life from the seat of that power. Simple as that.

As far as sticking to the topic and helping the brutha out.
Solid... that was my original idealistic goal here.
Check my previous posts, along with everyone elses great advice.
Hopefully you've gotted something of merit out of this thread, and maybe some more excellent comments to come.

Peace and...

 

[WORKEROUTER]

Darklight and flippin, you both provide excellent thought about the traditional arts.

The only problematic thing that has evolved over the past decades is the false notion, popularized by McDojos and such, of such arts as being great combat systems.

 

[DarkLight]

First of all, thank you.
And for ease... I hear you man.

The systems of today, vs. the animal forms of yesterday etc. are designed more for sheer effective combat. Krav Maga being taught to the Israeli Elite Soldiers (Masad) etc. Total and instant whoop-ass. The only purpose to it.

But that is not to say the adepts of other arts, couldn't match and/or exceed today's system's. Its just to say, that the M.A.'s of today will get you to where they're at a hell of a lot quicker.

Anyways... cheers and Peace'

 

[Dust 2 Dust]

Yeah,TKD and Kung Fu suck. Anyone with 2 months of BJJ training will beat you easily. If you want a few laughs then go into this thread and you can watch the Gracies b1tch slap and humiliate Kung Fu Masters in front of their students. http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=96520.

I have a black belt in TKD and eventually abandoned it. TKD and Kung Fu students are quick on their feet, but as soon as the fight goes to the ground all their concentration and training goes straight out the window.

You should also investigate Krav Manga schools you're considering joining. Since reaching US shores it's beginning to get McDojo'd. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDojo

http://www.furyu.com/archives/issue8/zanshin8.html

 

[brucevangeorge]

Yeah,TKD and Kung Fu suck. Anyone with 2 months of BJJ training will beat you easily. If you want a few laughs then go into this thread and you can watch the Gracies b1tch slap and humiliate Kung Fu Masters in front of their students. http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=96520.

I have a black belt in TKD and eventually abandoned it. TKD and Kung Fu students are quick on their feet, but as soon as the fight goes to the ground all their concentration and training goes straight out the window.

You should also investigate Krav Manga schools you're considering joining. Since reaching US shores it's beginning to get McDojo'd. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDojo

http://www.furyu.com/archives/issue8/zanshin8.html

As a student of Tae Kwon Do (former student) I wholeheartedly agree! TKD is only good for ring fights that have rules. In the real world... you could get one hit at the beginning of the fight and you're screwed.

Ground fighting, grapling, and lastly striking ALL the WAY!!!

MMA > TKD, KungFu, Druken whatever... etc.

 

[Brian20o2]

That you all for your honesty and help.
I have one question though: What excercises and stretches would you do while training?

 

[mark83]

brian if i were you i would look into a style of martial arts thats similar in movement like Capoeira and tai-chi take some of those classes and try apply what you learn there to what you are trying to teach yourself....it will help alot if you have a training partner that is well versed in any martial art becuase they will be able to help you see what will be effective and what will be ineffective and after all this i am just now relizing that this thread quite old and you have probly already decided on something else

 

[Kev07]

If i remember correctly from chinese movies, they read a scroll, cough up blood, and then drink a gourd of alcohol. then they go around kicking butt