Man's Best Friend Isn't a Dog, It's Competition Anxiety

[jonwon]

>> I agree that it is disrespectful for a woman to do jump in another guy's bed in her underwear in front of you (or not in front of you for that matter)...

A lot of guys would look at this and think "OMG....you basically just GAVE her permission to cheat!". I disagree. You basically told her non-verbally that her pu$$y holds no power over you.>>

... AND that you'll stick around for even more bad behavior from her, but what that signals to the female mind is that the reason it doesn't bother you to be disrespected is not because you're so in charge of yourself so as not to throw a tantrum, but because you don't know better then to have some self-respect and walk. Expect even more cat & mouse type antics trying to pull your strings from those women when you send that kind of signal out.

>> now it simply lowers my interest in the girl and its more or less - Next, type attitude.>>

In continuing my thought: we surround ourselves with people that either are positive or negative for us, and where one man accepts or tolerrates bad behavior, another doesn't. Ask yourselves: why do I accept or tolerate bad behavior? To have her to f@ck? Then you're willing to sell yourself for a ride. Is it, deep down, about wanting to maintain popularity or wishing to appear cool? Or a fear of rejection, or becoming persona non-grata or a fear of loneliness or something? It's always something, but it's not about the bravado.

>> it just makes the others seem that much better, since when you are confronted with this stuff >>

I suspect that it's not that she seems better, but what it really is, is that you're more attracted to better behaved females; it's way more appealing to you and therefore, given that you're also physically attracted to her, so is she. Or put another way, you're attracted to gold, not turds, plain and simple; it's not that turds make gold seem better.

You really have no idea.

Your speculating the dymanic, your seeing things that are not there, she was a fuc* a plate, one of about 4 girls I was seeing at the time - there was no drama, no effect, it was cute and boring - I did not read into it because there was nothing to read into it, was like getting scratched by a fly - It effected me about this much 'zero'. You need to understand something, I know this game inside and out, I know how to play bitc*es especcially ones like the one described - The girl stuck around because 'I let her', not the other way around - I dont think your fully understand what type of guy I am.

Yes it's disrespectful, if it was my GF, she was a FB a plate, a shag, something to blow my nose on (figure of speach), she did it to gauge my interest in her and what she found was 'nothing' no reaction, so it actually back fired on the bitc*, that was reward enough to know I could blow through it and still have the FB, the shag, the phone call sex, still come round and slap my dic* inbetween her massive ti*s and enjoy every second of it - then when done I sent her home on her way.

If she was a GF, she would have been out the door, but she wasn't she was one of a number of girls I just happened to be fuc*ing who tried to use an AFC (no offence to my friend), to gauge my interest. The guy like I said would have been shi**ing bricks, the girl knew it, she was very clued up on the male female dynamic and wanted to find a 'chip' in my armour, what she found was a guy who simply found her actions juvinile boring if not a little 'cute'.

STR8Up cheers for digging me up dude, it's apprecciated.

Most guys here I understand where there coming from, its the 'relationship' dynamic, when in-fact the girl in question was never relationship material from the start but she had great fuc* potential - hence her actions where orchastrated because women do not like to be simply 'fuc*ed' they like to know they 'have' you in some form or other - this girl in question did little things of this nature because I gave her zero attention other then sexual - hence being in her shoes, I must have appeared to be a guy she could not understand, most guys would have buckled from day one - here she finds a guy who simply pumped and kept her hanging because the sex was good, her tits where huge and in the bedroom she aimed to please - She knew it would not get further and she used to say I was the guy with 'issues' because I refused to 'commit' - She knew I was simply 'using' her so on the contrary I understand her actions, but her actions are not what I want from a women -

Whilst the current girl I am seeing has bombed right through the facade and proved her worth - hence the girl I am seeing was simply a '****' who has stuck around and instead of creating attention seeking drama due to an ego bruising on my part, she kept on giving - and I kept on taking - A little like a total Ars-hole tbh about it - but at the end of the day that attitdue has this girl eating out of my hand and she would do ANYTHING for me and I make no exageration about that at all.

Also Jophil, I care not if the women 'won' or not, this aint a race - Won in what way I ask you? Won because I still blew my load on her massive tits? If thats winning she can keep winning - Incidently I aint seeing the girl anymore, I got bored of her, cut her off and replaced her, but i did not replace her because of this episode - I replaced her because I got bored of fuc*ing her - I knew what type of girl she was, she was a great girl to be around, she just wanted to have her ego massaged and me and a mate fighting over her would have give her goose-bumps, simply because I used to treat her like a royal ars*hole but she kept coming back for more, but towards the end I suspect she wanted to try to 'effect' me.

There was ZERO attraction from her to my mate, he wasn't her type, I knew that before she did this, she knew I knew it, even so she could have fuc*ed him for all I care - then she would have been out - but she didn't, her actions where 100% a product of the effect I had on her, the guy was a prop, she did it 100% for effect for me, I knew it - Hence why I saw right through it, in a way it's attention on my part, I made a girl so want to know where I stand she would hop into the bed of a guy she did not like to gauge my interest in her, because as stated women are not happy with just 'fuc*ing' -

I also had the girl in question, a few weeks earlier around the house in some sexy underwear to show her off to my mates, because she looked good - I asked her to make us all a cup of tea - we sat in the living room (lounge), watched a movie me, her and two of my mates with her dressed up in french slut wear, and I loved every second of it. If it was my wife, no way - or a GF< she was a Fcu* something to keep around, pure sexual and alot of fun.

What I did is carried on has normal and when she brought it up, I simply said "he'd make a good BF for you, I think you should go for it".

If I would have reacted, dumped her over it - she would have won - actually if we want to talk about winning and loosing, it would have given her what she wanted, then I know 100% actually 10000% I would have NEVER seen her again. If I would have reacted she would have won and got exactly what she wanted, and in that she would have probably text, emailed, face-book my friend and rubbed my nose in it some more - just for effect because each time it is awarding her attention and validation.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

I think the point of contention here is between a desire to effect control of a woman's behavior, but we're neglecting the Desire Dynamic. I think this debate is really dependent upon the context of the "relationship" with that individual woman. JOPHIL and MR. ME are interpreting this control in the form of direct, overt ultimatums - change this behavior or else. Or else what? You're still not going to alter her desire to behave a particular way even if she changes her behavior.

The other approach is to indirectly (covertly) send the same message, but this comes off as being permissive or tolerant of a particular behavior to that mindset. I can understand the want of being firm in that it makes a guy seem resolute, but it's only a strength in as far as you can actually enforce it - which is usually removing yourself from that relationship anyway.

Behavior is simply the manifestation of what's motivating a person. You can change criminal behavior, but the criminal must reform himself, he's got to change his mind about himself. You can't tell a person to be different, they have to be led to it, and it has to be of their own will.

 

[guru1000]

I think the point of contention here is between a desire to effect control of a woman's behavior, but we're neglecting the Desire Dynamic.

Point missed is when a contender crosses the boundaries of respect, she is no longer an asset.

To keep a girl of this character in your harem would mean either you are short in options or you care less about your company. Either or is not congruent with a healthy lifestyle. If she attempted to get a reaction out of Jonwon and stooped to this level; what's next? This will be the same girl filing a rape charge at the local precinct. What a girl does when she's desperate is a good indicator of her character.

Best response is "Have a nice day!"

 

[Jeffst1980]

Point missed is when a contender crosses the boundaries of respect, she is no longer an asset.

To keep a girl of this character in your harem would mean either you are short in options or you care less about your company. Either or is not congruent with a healthy lifestyle. If she attempted to get a reaction out of Jonwon and stooped to this level; what's next? This will be the same girl filing a rape charge at the local precinct. What a girl does when she's desperate is a good indicator of her character.

Best response is "Have a nice day!"

Exactly. No point in trying to send covert messages when a girl just needs to be "next"d. And it's worth repeating that desperation brings out the worst in anyone--continuing a sexual relationship with a loose cannon is just BEGGING for trouble.

No matter if she's a GF, a "plate," or an "f-toy"--it is STILL a relationship of some sort if you're continuously sleeping with her. She WILL have some bearing on your life, and you will have little control over what she decides to do out of desperation.

STR8UP- The reason to "punish" women by withdrawing affection is pure behaviorism. Reward good behavior and punish bad behavior. Do that with enough consistency and you'll notice that you will receive a lot more good behavior. If you "next" lousy women, you won't receive any further bad behavior from them. It DOES feel better that way.

 

[Trader]

Exactly. No point in trying to send covert messages when a girl just needs to be "next"d. And it's worth repeating that desperation brings out the worst in anyone--continuing a sexual relationship with a loose cannon is just BEGGING for trouble.

No matter if she's a GF, a "plate," or an "f-toy"--it is STILL a relationship of some sort if you're continuously sleeping with her. She WILL have some bearing on your life, and you will have little control over what she decides to do out of desperation.

STR8UP- The reason to "punish" women by withdrawing affection is pure behaviorism. Reward good behavior and punish bad behavior. Do that with enough consistency and you'll notice that you will receive a lot more good behavior. If you "next" lousy women, you won't receive any further bad behavior from them. It DOES feel better that way.

It's easy to tell what kind of a guy someone is, ignore what he says, just look at the type of girls he is with (be it friends, gf, f-buddy). When your girl has issues, it says more about you than it says about her. After all, you chose her.

 

[STR8UP]

I think the point of contention here is between a desire to effect control of a woman's behavior, but we're neglecting the Desire Dynamic. I think this debate is really dependent upon the context of the "relationship" with that individual woman. JOPHIL and MR. ME are interpreting this control in the form of direct, overt ultimatums - change this behavior or else. Or else what? You're still not going to alter her desire to behave a particular way even if she changes her behavior.

The other approach is to indirectly (covertly) send the same message, but this comes off as being permissive or tolerant of a particular behavior to that mindset. I can understand the want of being firm in that it makes a guy seem resolute, but it's only a strength in as far as you can actually enforce it - which is usually removing yourself from that relationship anyway.

The highlighted text above illustrates the need to have LEVERAGE in order to have CONTROL.

These guys going on and on about how your booty call is a reflection of who you are as a man.....puhleeeez.

How do I lose self respect for shooting my load in a chick that I don't care about who supposedly "disrespects" me? It isn't a relationship that's based on respect, at least not when it comes to sex. Now, if she were to start dropping french fries on the floor of my car or leaving used tampons on the counter....that's a different story.

 

[guru1000]

Str8up you are a good guy but continue to make the mistake of bad company. Whether a business partner or FB, you still choose to associate with bottom of the barrel characters rather than disqualify them all together. This thread is a perfect example of your thought process with regard to a low character FB used as a c** receptacle until the day she blind sides you.

I could care less whether a man, woman, FB or transtestical. If a person displays low character, he or she will ultimately bring more problems than benefits. It is best to nip it in the butt and walk away. But if you choose to play with fire because it is EXCITING, accept responsibility and don't point fingers when you take it with no vaseline.

 

[ThunderMaverick]

Oh Guru, silly you. When you warn him about a f*ck buddy blindsiding him; You obviously missed the thread where one of the girls he f*cked previously told everyone that he had AIDS because he slept with her BFF out of revenge.

How could it not be said that the company you keep is a reflection of yourself?

You welcome it, STR8. You revel in it. You love making examples out of bad women that YOU PURPOSEFULLY BRING INTO YOUR LIFE who burn you, KNOWING that they'll burn you. There's a lot of men here who are older than you (even younger) who have come here for YEARS who don't post 1/3 of the bad experiences they have with women. If they do they learn from it. You know the type of behavior to avoid. You know the body language, the company the woman keeps, etc. However you still continue to rummage through garbage and complain that you haven't found a full lobster dinner. Are you willfully ignorant?!

For christssakes man, you need to replace your filter. It's either way too dirty or it's just defective.

 

[STR8UP]

People hear one side of my life and they thing they know me. LOL

FYI- I have some pretty awesome friends. I have had girlfriends that were good people. I have had the same primary business partner now for over 10 years. The only person outside of family that has earned my trust.

Anyone who has lived life knows that it's impossible to judge people with 100% accuracy.

I have learned to hit it about 95% of the time, but my requirements for who I allow into my business world or who I allow into my close personal circle are different from my "casual acquaintances" and "booty calls". These people only have the keys that I allow them to have. The damage they can do is minimal.

If you guys think it's THAT important to prove a point, preserve your self respect, or protect your sanity or whatever....knock yourselves out. For me if or when a person really screws me over or displays that they are more trouble than they are worth, I cut them off. Just like I did with the recent FWB situation. For me to cut a chick out of my life (who I really don't care about beyond an occasional shag) for trying to get under my skin.....I would feel like a weak ass pu$$y for letting her little chick games affect me. You guys are the opposite. You think you got disrespected so you have to prove to the world that you don't tolerate that.

The only way someone can disrespect you is if you CARE. I care about my family, friends, car, house, business, etc. I don't care about some silly little attempt by a woman who I am just using for sex with to make me "step up my game" or whatever.

 

[Ballie]

Competition anxiety

Competition anxietyThat was the OP initial thread - gone a bit off the point haven't we with personal attacks? We are here to learn, I have certainly done so in the year I have been on this forum and have upped my game from AFC to DJ.

My personal experience agrees with the OP. In the relationship I am in at the moment, my GF knows that there are other women interested in me and if she messes around with other guys I WILL walk away. I also agree with other guys here about not moving in with her and only seeing her on weekends. She knows I go out during the week and talk to other women socially at the pubs, clubs etc.

I believe in only having one GF at a time, so I don't mess around - but the competition anxiety of not having me with her all the time keeps this relationship fresh. That's why I will never remarry because that is game over in a relationship.

 

[jonwon]

This thread has de-railed, it’s now turned into a pis*ing contest.

STR8UP, don’t explain yourself, you don’t need to.

For starters I was the one who made the claim, these guys can attack my character and integrity as much as they like, call the girl low class, call me the guy who does not have options.

Let them, I don't give a flying monkey fuc*.

And neither should you.

I enjoyed myself with that girl, more then I enjoy coming here and having my character attacked over something trivial.

Pointless debate, I wasn't seeking advice, and get this I especially was not seeking advice on who to date and who not to date, that fella's is my choice, so live with it accept and and swallow it -

My choice, my life, I won’t make excuses, I won’t make amends for what your perceive the situation to be because I've tackled your posts and now you’re getting pissy because you can’t deviate from your original response to this thread no matter what I write - The only way to placate this is to 'agree', but I aint going to agree - not one bit - the girl was allot of fun a plate a fuc*, nothing -

Bottom of the barrel, clearly, I picked her up of the street, some urchin I managed to get 'lucky' with, hence she was willing to jump into any guys bed - Give me a fuc*ing break - Pathetic. You attack my character, you attack the way I do things and you attack what and how I do things, no wonder I stopped posted in this place many years back.

Guru first you greet me, then you attack me - what is your malfunction. Listen for you only, I care not what you think - it is clear your only responding because your simply backing up your initial post, this strikes me has a guy who can't back down - well back down bud - because you've got it all wrong and your actions in this thread are not only making this hole bigger there also putting up a divide between me and you - not something I wanted but your character assassination is not warranted or needed.

Your not going to change the situation, you’re not going to change my attitude or make me think - 'Wow this guy is so right', because rather frankly your way off base, so far off base your need to back up this thread with insulting character attacks clearly points to that fact - I aint your bitc* so stop trying to post to me like I am.

It was a nothing, a none entity situation, my mates thought it was cute, I thought it was cute - And did you miss the part where I stated I had the girl round the house in her underwear weeks before anyway (this was an house share), You skip past that bit did you - does that sound like a guy who really gave a fuc*, when I was encouraging her to be like that in some small portion, because I found it fun, forgive me If I don’t bend to your way of doing things - I enjoyed it too.

Now the fact of the matter is, where I am coming from your responses seem the product of a boring old fuc*ing fart - she was fun a bit of fun, sex and I enjoyed every second of it - Should I excuse myself due to some SS code that you need to boot every women from your life if she steps out of line? No sorry I don’t, because in this context, you guys are reading far too much into it.

That alone proves the type of guy I am compared to you and the type of girls I can attract and date - I date quality girls all the time, infact my current GF is borderline SS quality, but fuc*ing boring - tbh about it -

I like a bit of spice, I like a fun girl - the girl was not a sla* - she was working has a network engineer for BT - more money than most of the guys on this forum - went to university came out with honours, but I suppose she is low quality because she wanted to test me like I tested her. Get real.

Carry on - This thread has de-railed I apologise about that STR8UP and also about the need for these guys to jump on your nuts too –


It's getting to the stage where you cant post anything unless it slots into the rigid SS code of how to meet and pick up chicks - but whooo be the man who actually has some fuc*ing fun with them -

Also your coming across has men who 'own' women, you don't own shi* - keep your attitudes in check - I meant no offence when I came here and there is ZERO justification for the character assasination simply to qualify your own posts.


I'm done explaining myself.

 

[ThunderMaverick]

This thread has de-railed, it’s now turned into a pis*ing contest.

STR8UP, don’t explain yourself, you don’t need to.

I'm done explaining myself.

Hahahahaha

 

[jonwon]

You, however, do need to explain yourself. lol

You have a problem with me thunder?

 

[ThunderMaverick]

You have a problem with me thunder?

*puffs out chest and slicks back hair with comb* No.

You got a problem with me?

 

[ketostix]

The other approach is to indirectly (covertly) send the same message, but this comes off as being permissive or tolerant of a particular behavior to that mindset. I can understand the want of being firm in that it makes a guy seem resolute, but it's only a strength in as far as you can actually enforce it - which is usually removing yourself from that relationship anyway.

That is exactly the problem with being covert, in other words saying nothing, when a woman does something you don't like. It's much more likely to be perceived as permisiveness or tolerance for her behavior. If she needs to be nexted then why not tell her what you didn't like AND next her?

Behavior is simply the manifestation of what's motivating a person. You can change criminal behavior, but the criminal must reform himself, he's got to change his mind about himself. You can't tell a person to be different, they have to be led to it, and it has to be of their own will.

Well I look at it as reinforcers are components of leading a person to want to change. There's negative reinforcers and positive ones. Criticism or disapproval is a negative re-enforcer.

 

[jonwon]

*puffs out chest and slicks back hair with comb* No.

You got a problem with me?

Not in the slightest.

In-fact Thunder, though we may not agree on everything, where all here for the same reason - I understand where guys are coming from, but sometimes you know it's better to take a step back and say 'I think I went a little too far there' and in this thread for example I think a few people stepped over that line.

But anyway I digress - Back on topic.

Water of a ducks back.

*heads to the bar and buy's thunder a drink and discusses the next chicks to talk to*

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

That is exactly the problem with being covert, in other words saying nothing, when a woman does something you don't like. It's much more likely to be perceived as permisiveness or tolerance for her behavior. If she needs to be nexted then why not tell her what you didn't like AND next her?

If you're at a stage where you're going to NEXT a woman because her behaviors are betraying her real intent (desire), or are consistent enough for you to develop a sense of her character with some predictability (i.e. there are no "mixed messages"), then yes, I'd agree that you do have the option of OVERTLY telling her the reasoning for you NEXTing her. However, if you've adamantly made the decision to walk away, who's benefit are you really serving by doing so? You're still going to walk, so are you doing so to teach her a lesson in behavior modification, or are you doing so based on some need to feel justice is served for yourself by pointing out her faults directly to her?

Now, bear in mind, you've made the decision to NEXT her. In a week, she'll be a footnote in your sexual past, right? The reason I point that out is because precious few men issuing this sort of overt ultimatum really want to NEXT the girl and most hope that in doing so she'll make a genuine shift in her personae with him. This is exactly why men agree to marriage counseling; they think that the negotiations will influence her genuine desire, when in fact it's just an overt form of bartering for her desired behaviors and never addresses the root of the problem which is she has no genuine desire to perform them.

OK, now throw all of that out the window for a moment, because that's NOT what we're discussing here. What we're hitting upon is an interaction that come prior to NEXTing a woman, prior to making that decision to walk away. If you've made the decision to walk, then being covert or overt about it is really just a formality - it's just a matter of how you want to exit. But what we're talking about is using competition anxiety covertly change the game, retain the frame and, hopefully, inspire a genuine desire. It's a solid principle that a woman's imagination is one of the most useful tools in the DJ toolkit. However, this imagination is killed by OVERTLY issuing terms of compliance; an ultimatum. She doesn't have to wonder about a knife behind your back if you've got a gun to her head.

Women thrive on their imaginings. A woman quickly loses interest in the AFC who spends hours on the phone with her or the guy who vomits out his entire life story at a restaurant on their first date. There's nothing left to wonder at; there's no more imagining because you've spoiled the movie for her before she got to watch it unfold. Guys who do so, the guys who think OVERT, full disclosure - say what you mean and mean what you say - are thinking like men. They are content driven, where as women are context driven in their communication. As a Man, I'd want another guy to give it to me straight, here's what I need and when I need it - great, I'll see what I can do. It's problem solving, identify problem, identify solution, take action, on to the next issue.

Women don't operate like this - unless conditions force them to do so, but it's not their preference. You wont change her mind with an OVERT, artless, sledgehammer ultimatum. You may change her behavior, but understand it's change based on a threat, it's change based on obligation not a fundamental shift in her thinking or her character. It's behavior modification rooted in a cost analysis, risks vs. reward, and the moment the reward becomes less valuable than the obligations needed to maintain it (in lieu of better options), then she opts out and returns to her genuine desire. By exerting direct overt control, you become her jailer who can't indefinitely keep her locked up. And really, would you want to? Would you want a woman who's obligated to behave as you desire or would you rather a woman who's genuine desire is for you?

 

[guru1000]

.

Guru first you greet me, then you attack me - what is your malfunction. Listen for you only, I care not what you think - it is clear your only responding because your simply backing up your initial post, this strikes me has a guy who can't back down - well back down bud - because you've got it all wrong and your actions in this thread are not only making this hole bigger there also putting up a divide between me and you - not something I wanted but your character assassination is not warranted or needed.

Yo Jonwon. Don't misconstrue any of my posts as an attack to your character. Actually, we all have a different code we live by and that's great. You and I are alike in the sense that we have a strong foundation of beliefs that we do not betray. In other words, we stay true to ourselves. And at the end of the day, isn't that what really matters? How else can one develop the fortitude to tackle the world if he cannot stay true to his own convictions.

No offense bud, only business.

Actually I was the guy who made wrong choices in people whether business partners or women. It cost me five years and over a million dollars. You can say it was a hefty price for bad decisions. Going forward, this valuable experience has also saved me time and bad investments.

You wont change her mind with an OVERT, artless, sledgehammer ultimatum. You may change her behavior, but understand it's change based on a threat, it's change based on obligation not a fundamental shift in her thinking or her character.

Depends on the context and the offense. If it is a non exclusive candidate, why are you telling her anything?
In the case it is your LTR or wife, many of the SO's choices are based from her upbringing and not desire. In other words, she is programmed by habit to think this way. This is where boundary implementation and overt expectations are necessary. After she has unequivocally proven herself to be a quality candidate, she is made aware of the Do's and Dont's to fully understand your boundaries and consequence of her behavior.

I would argue that one should not try to increase desire with tactics. Her desire should be naturally high in you already and not manipulated through covert jedi mind games. Instead of increasing her desire through strategy, one is best in focusing on his own intrinsic value to bring genuine IL to the table.

 

[jonwon]

Yo Jonwon. Don't misconstrue any of my posts as an attack to your character. Actually, we all have a different code we live by and that's great. You and I are alike in the sense that we have a strong foundation of beliefs that we do not betray. In other words, we stay true to ourselves. And at the end of the day, isn't that what really matters? How else can one develop the fortitude to tackle the world if he cannot stay true to his own convictions.

No offense bud, only business.

Actually I was the guy who made wrong choices in people whether business partners or women. It cost me five years and over a million dollars. You can say it was a hefty price for bad decisions. Going forward, this valuable experience has also saved me time and bad investments.




Depends on the context and the offense. If it is a non exclusive candidate, why are you telling her anything?
In the case it is your LTR or wife, many of the SO's choices are based from her upbringing and not desire. In other words, she is programmed by habit to think this way. This is where boundary implementation and overt expectations are necessary. After she has unequivocally proven herself to be a quality candidate, she is made aware of the Do's and Dont's to fully understand your boundaries and consequence of her behavior.

I would argue that one should not try to increase desire with tactics. Her desire should be naturally high in you already and not manipulated through covert jedi mind games. Instead of increasing her desire through strategy, one is best in focusing on his own intrinsic value to bring genuine IL to the table.

Then where cool, thats good to know - If anything your one of the posters I have alot of respect for, due to the way you post the things you do.

Dont change that for me, your advice is golden - It's understandable when you dont know the guy your responding to and I aint like most guys, so in fairness the advice was good, just not applicable in this situation -

Though for any other guy 100% solid advice and I agree with all of it.

 

[scrouds]

After reading this thread, all I have to say is that I have a lot to learn. Damn.