LTRs

Tenacity

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For those you guys that say you were happy in an LTR, can you elaborate? Happy in what way and does that happiness come DIRECTLY FROM the girl, or is it coming from yourself in some capacity?

I am just NOT getting any value from women other than sex and someone to hang with/chill with/go places with. There's no fulfillment, there's no sense of loyalty, there's no support of your dreams, there's no SHYT. If I dropped dead tomorrow they wouldn't give a damn.

Maybe it's just me, maybe I svck and I'm bringing this on myself in some way through not meeting women in some secret pseudo "quality women" mill where there's this HOST of quality women walking around. Or maybe I svck in that I'm not PERFECT and have some flaws, I don't know....but I'm really trying to come to terms that this concept of being in a "quality LTR" isn't going to happen and I'm trying HARD not to go fcking crazy. It's as if my biological wiring wants a quality LTR but the market isn't producing that shyt.
 

Tenacity

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Well, I don't get anything but SEX and dates. That's why I opted out of marriage, creating children and doing nothing other than just spinning plates.

I think this is my lot in life in relation to this area because I have continually been meeting new women, dating new women, fvcking new women and it ALWAYS ENDS UP THE SAME.

So, either it's the market or I just svck, but that's all I'm getting out here.
 

hockeyfreak79

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I am just NOT getting any value from women other than sex and someone to hang with/chill with/go places with.

Yeah that sounds about right! No one said it would be easy man. My ex knew that the above was in fact true too. She even said it to me out loud...lol She would always try to find a way to please me. Bringing me gifts (clothes) or even asked me if I needed $$ when my budget was tight, dinner, weekends away etc.

I've lowered my expectations from woman a lot since divorce & rarely ever expect to be self fulfilled by them.
 

zekko

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Scaramouche said:
I am very happy with a full on LTR I have had for 8 years...It still has a lot of Magic in it,because I never outwear my Welcome...Familiarity breeds contempt.. another LTR though she is seen less frequently has been going for 11 Years
Here's a good example which shows that LTRs do not necessarily have to be monogamous.

G Govan said:
It's what I see often though. Seeing one of my best friends growing up being talked down to like a child is quite unnerving
As you say, the culture today is raising boys to be neutered pvssies. She can only talk to him this way if he puts up with it. The man needs to keep the frame. It helps if you do not get married, because once you get married, then the state basically tells you that she owns your @ss.

Tenacity said:
For those you guys that say you were happy in an LTR, can you elaborate? Happy in what way and does that happiness come DIRECTLY FROM the girl, or is it coming from yourself in some capacity?
It's a cliché, but you have to be happy on your own first. You have to have a philosophy of life which enables you to be happy on your own. Then the woman can add to your enjoyment without you growing dependent on her.

I happen to live with my girlfriend (11 years now). Sex and companionship are obvious perks, but what I enjoy is the partnership. We both have a stake in taking care of the house, the vehicles, the yard, keeping the food on the table, spending quality time together, etc. It's nice to have someone going the same way that you are.

I know that quality women are scarce though. It's a bit of a contradiction in the manosphere. They tell you there are billions of women in the world so you have abundance. But decent women suitable for LTRs can be hard to find. I'm fortunate in that nice girls (as opposed to filthy hosebags) tend to be attracted to me.

Social Leper said:
Step 1 - Find a good girl. Step 2 - there is no step 2. That's it. This site can only teach you to spin plates and screen. The rest is up to you.
I think it's partly screening - you can't turn a ho into a housewife. But the other part is to keep the frame. The man MUST keep the frame. So I'd say it's half screening and half keeping the frame. Sh!t, BE the frame.
 

Vulpine

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Before I found this place, I had several LTR's that lasted far too long. "Back then" I figured I was doing right by "toughing it out" in crap situations. For all I knew, I had to "man up" and just accept whatever antics a chick would dish out in order for my p-p to get wet. I used to let myself be part of "sex as a weapon" and other toxic power struggles.

Women would ask me, "Vulpine, why aren't you married?" Try as I might, I couldn't get a woman to sit through the answer. I had reasons why LTR's had failed, but women don't want to hear that those "failures" were the woman's fault: they want to assume the man is to blame. So, I chased off many dates with truth. "I haven't met a woman that I would want to marry."

After many years of not understanding (or, at least, not fully acknowledging the dynamics I suspected as real) the branch-swinging hypergamy, the "next best thing", "Mr. Right Now", or "bigger better deal", when I finally found this site things clicked in my head based on the experiences I already had.

Of course, like most new to this site and the red pill, I had some grieving and evolving to do after discovering my theories were truths. My mother, aunts, exes, they all were seen under a different light afterwards, and it was extremely off-putting. I have to admit, I found myself very against LTR's for a while.

...then the BPD chick came along and made it too easy. That's a story that's been typed before, so let me just move along...

After that, I had time to examine my serial monogamy. What I came to realize is that my LTR failures in the past were more due to being an AFC than being unworthy or low value. No, I wasn't bad in bed or ugly, I wasn't broke or a loser in any way, my head just wasn't right. Along with materials here and some introspection along about the time I was typing up the "Map and Compass" and rapping about "The Castle" metaphors, I used an example of walking on a trail in a thread about confident persistence.

Using this "walking on a trail" metaphor for my life, I found that as I walked along the trail, women would meet me and walk a while next to me. Eventually, they'd come to a fork in the trail and take another direction, leaving me to continue on my path alone. Women would walk with me through life a while, then go their own way; another would come along, we'd enjoy our time, then go our separate ways eventually.

I couldn't understand why women wouldn't stay on "my trail". It wasn't until I scrutinized "the trail I was on" that I really began to understand my previous failings with women.

"Men go their own way" wasn't a popular expression then, but, the idea really epitomizes my LTR failings. It turns out, my trail had no aim, no end, it just twisted and meandered around to wherever struck my fancy. Since I had no "X on the map" and no direction, goals, or ambitions, women began to see me as a dead-end prospect. And, although sex kept them around much longer than they would have stayed otherwise, they would still eventually find a new branch and swing off.

Once I understood market value more, and was exposed to the "men as leaders" and "captain of the ship" dynamics better, I was able to take time away from dating, focus on my future, and work on making myself a better man in general. Then, after developing goals and direction, once I got more active in the dating scene, my whole attitude and dating persona changed. I found that the women I had availability to (in my area at least) just didn't measure up to my value: they didn't bring anything to my table.

So, with all the garbage I could be in a relationship with, LTR's were pretty far out of my head. I really kicked myself for attempting LTR's with the trash that I did: "How could I let myself be a dildo like that!!!???!!!" Rather than stay bitter at women and myself for past mistakes/wasted time/life, I simply resigned myself to the understanding that it would need to be a pretty amazing chick to surprise me into even considering another LTR.

Unshockingly, I sifted through scummers until I reached a point where püssy was püssy, and I was doing many (most) women a FAVOR by having sex with them. They certainly didn't do anything to deserve sex from me, I just needed a place to park a load.

Sheeeyit... I remember being on a meet-up with an online date chick and wanting to terminate the date, or "punt" if you will. She was a snatch, and I didn't care to play with her anymore, so I asked her this:

V: "I want you to really think about what I'm about to ask you: Would you honestly want to be with a guy who is attracted to your behavior?"

A split second later, she was up out of her chair and walking out the door. MAN! the look on the people's faces! I just made a "clapping the dust off" motion with my hands and ordered another ****tail. ...wish you guys could've seen it. But, she instantly reinforced my point.
:rolleyes:

Anyway, crummy dates persisted until I met a chick that shocked the sh¡t out of me. It was just a random "here is a chick making eyes at me" sort of out-of-nowhere situation. Had I not known what I was looking for, had I not had experience enough to tell the difference, had I not sifted through the scummers, I wouldn't have recognized quality-according-to-me when it was sitting across from me.

And, conversely, if SHE hadn't sifted through loads of douchebag AFC's, she wouldn't be able to compare/contrast effectively, either. That is, because she was qualifying me, and she had previous experiences herself, she was able to recognize and appreciate my value.

Just yesterday, someone asked me how long it has been: coming up on 5 years. Fortunately, I live in a state that doesn't recognize common law marriage, but...

She's been walking the trail with me, over and around obstacles, through all sorts of inclement weather, and it's been pleasant. We're great friends, and more importantly, part of a team. I see many, many dudes out there who don't make that very simple distinction before jumping into destined-to-fail LTR's: adversarial versus cooperative. You want a partner, not an enemy, in a relationship. The actions, not the words, show you the difference. I have tried coupling with adversaries in the past, women with agendas that don't include me in the future, and now it's obvious how I could've seen the warnings.

Ultimately, my attitudes about LTR's changed back-and-forth. I'll just say I had the wrong idea of what an LTR was for. It was just something that happened, everyone does it, in my mind, so "I should, too", right? I had no idea that I should be qualifying women in my life, so, of course, I had bad experiences in LTR's. I would settle for whatever landed on my cøck, and would accept abuse as though it was part of the package. Then I thought LTR's were strictly for idiots. Finally, I arrived at the idea of "choosing".

You can do that? PICK who you bang? WOW!

That simple bit of empowerment, simple as it seems, was all the difference in the quality of my LTR's.

Without a goal, guys will sift through the scummers endlessly. That's not particularly bad for a lot of guys whose focus is not on a future family. However, I couldn't stand the part-time job experience of dating. All the money and time, the preparations and the travel, the phone calls and the "game", all that crap... If I could just have 1 cool chick, with a tight box, a pleasant voice, shorter than me, weighs less than me... the rest of the trash you can set on fire.

I'd much rather use my energy and resources toward what lays further up ahead on my trail than finding someone to walk with me. I can see in some of the posts around here how that lack of understanding about what "lies ahead" on guys' "trails" could affect their attitudes about LTR's. I can't blame any dudes for being against them. For me, LTR's have a pragmatic value. Stress is a killer, guys, and the exposure and risk associated with dating are stresses I am happy to do without.

"Happier" to do without, I should say. And, studies have shown in increase in life longevity for those who have coupled. It's really no wonder. I mean, for one thing, warts and HIV is off the list of things I'm concerned about. The threat of psycho stalkers and exes is lessened, though I do get occasional "5-year calls" from exes. LTR's afford you less stress, if you qualify correctly. That's a big "IF" that most guys, myself included, miss; and it makes all the difference between good and bad.
 

Do not be too easy. If you are too easy to get, she will not want you. If you are too easy to keep, she will lose interest in you. If you are too easy to control, she will not respect you.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

Colossus

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Tenacity said:
For those you guys that say you were happy in an LTR, can you elaborate? Happy in what way and does that happiness come DIRECTLY FROM the girl, or is it coming from yourself in some capacity?
It's a bit of both, but mostly her.

When she cooks for me, refills my plate, cleans my dishes and does my laundry, sucks my c0ck almost every mutherfvcking DAY....those things make me feel good.

When she listens to me without touching her phone, offers me encouragement or suggestions, and does her part to keep the house clean and functional....those things make me feel good.

When she doesn't nag me, doesn't break my balls for something I didn't mean to do, and doesn't take everything I say into some solipsistic narcissistic context....those things make me feel good.

Now granted, I wasn't a miserable fvck before we met, and neither was she. She was a virgin and I had worked out a lot of my issues with women. I also had no delusions that there was a pot of gold at the end of the pus$y rainbow. I knew that sex with even the hottest women would eventually get old, and what really mattered was what kind of human being she was if I'm going to be spending almost every single day with her.

To reiterate Social Leper, I really believe at least 50% of marital and LTR happiness is finding/choosing the right woman.

Step 1. Find a good girl, with low or no mileage.
Step 2. Be a Man.
Step 3. You cant control everything. When in doubt refer to step 2.
 

Poon King

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Tenacity said:
For those you guys that say you were happy in an LTR, can you elaborate? Happy in what way and does that happiness come DIRECTLY FROM the girl, or is it coming from yourself in some capacity?

I am just NOT getting any value from women other than sex and someone to hang with/chill with/go places with. There's no fulfillment, there's no sense of loyalty, there's no support of your dreams, there's no SHYT. If I dropped dead tomorrow they wouldn't give a damn.

Maybe it's just me, maybe I svck and I'm bringing this on myself in some way through not meeting women in some secret pseudo "quality women" mill where there's this HOST of quality women walking around. Or maybe I svck in that I'm not PERFECT and have some flaws, I don't know....but I'm really trying to come to terms that this concept of being in a "quality LTR" isn't going to happen and I'm trying HARD not to go fcking crazy. It's as if my biological wiring wants a quality LTR but the market isn't producing that shyt.
This entire post is spot on.

Men who are happy in LTR are either living in delusion or happy for another reason. Its not the woman or the relationship that's making them happy.. its the delusional perception they have of their position and the woman that makes them happy.

Women will commit to the best deal in town (available to them).. whatever that is. The minute a better deal comes.. she will leave and she will do it with no guilt or remorse whatsoever. Women don't give a sh!t about men. They never have and they never will. Men are to be used until no longer useful.

The old-school housewife existed based on dependence. Women NEEDED men to provide.. so they gladly exchanged personal freedom for security (since they had no other choice). Now that women have choices.. the only ones who want to be housewives are lazy gold diggers. Women's morals and personalities are situational and based on the environment. In France when the Nazi's took over.. the women sided with them.

Women go with the WINNER and they don't care who the winner is. This has always been their nature and it will always be their nature. As long as men refuse to get this through their thick skulls.. they will continue to be disappointed by the actions of women. And they will continue to be idiotic white knights.
 

Rainman4707

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Wow, great thread.

I want my genes passed on.

I feel like I've got to have a shot at the family life. Hell if it dose'nt work out at least I gave it a shot.
 

Tenacity

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Poon King said:
This entire post is spot on.

Men who are happy in LTR are either living in delusion or happy for another reason. Its not the woman or the relationship that's making them happy.. its the delusional perception they have of their position and the woman that makes them happy.

Women will commit to the best deal in town (available to them).. whatever that is. The minute a better deal comes.. she will leave and she will do it with no guilt or remorse whatsoever. Women don't give a sh!t about men. They never have and they never will. Men are to be used until no longer useful.

The old-school housewife existed based on dependence. Women NEEDED men to provide.. so they gladly exchanged personal freedom for security (since they had no other choice). Now that women have choices.. the only ones who want to be housewives are lazy gold diggers. Women's morals and personalities are situational and based on the environment. In France when the Nazi's took over.. the women sided with them.

Women go with the WINNER and they don't care who the winner is. This has always been their nature and it will always be their nature. As long as men refuse to get this through their thick skulls.. they will continue to be disappointed by the actions of women. And they will continue to be idiotic white knights.

I agree with every single thing you just said, this is exactly the SAME analysis that I'm seeing. So it's like this....

- Either me and you are crazy

- Or these other guys are delusional

- Or these other guys have some secret seduction tactic to turn a mediocre or average chick into a quality chick

- Or these other guys have found this secret "quality woman cave" that they go in and pull a quality chick out of.

I'm thinking they are delusional, but I want to have some sort of discussion here. If you guys have some secret place you find these quality women at or you are using some secret seduction tactic......can you PLEASE SHARE the information??
 

Lexington

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I used to exclusively spin plates until recently. I've been in an LTR for close to a year now. LTRs aren't for everyone but they can certainly be rewarding provided you follow some simple guidelines:

1. Make sure you have an understanding of women before entering into an LTR. Most guys dive head first into the first LTR they can get into. They don't have a good understanding of the nature of women and sexual relationships. This is why a lot of people in these circles advised holding off on LTR until at least your late 20s. Most women naturally have better emotional intelligence than men and if you don't know what you're doing, you can be in a world of trouble. Spinning plates will gain you a lot of invaluable information.

2. Make sure she is not an Alpha Widow. A woman can only love a few times before her heart becomes calloused and she cannot effectively pair bond. A woman who rode the **** carousel hard (most American women these days unfortunately), is not LTR material. Women were never meant to have lots of sexual romantic partners. Remember, reliable and widely available birth control is a very new invention.

3. Ideally, she should come from a good family background. A woman who comes from a broken home, a dysfunctional family or an abusive childhood is often damaged goods. She doesn't know what a healthy relationship looks like. It is very unfortunate that many people these days come from bad family backgrounds, but it's not your burden to rescue these women.

4. Do NOT pursue relationships with single mothers. This should go without saying, but it is quite astonishing how many young men pursue serious relationships with single mothers. Things get a little bit different if you're older and the children have left the household. But in most cases, a single mother is awful LTR material.

5. She should be feminine. Most of us here are heterosexual men. We therefore have a masculine core. Like the negative is attracted to the positive, the masculine is attracted to the feminine. You will not be happy with a manly woman, no matter how attractive she may be. The exception to this rule is if you are a man with a feminine core (and they do exist).

6. Commit when your sexual market value (SMV) is high. Many of us come here when our SMV is low. It usually takes time to build it up. It took several years for me to build muscle, get fit, improve my dress sense, learn about social dynamics/Game etc. It takes most of us time to reach a point in life when we are well-off financially. This is another reason why it's often better to hold off on LTRs until later in life when you have actualized your potential. Obviously if you are a 23 year old dot-com billionaire, a pro athlete and/or famous pop star, this dynamic is different.
 

Tell her a little about yourself, but not too much. Maintain some mystery. Give her something to think about and wonder about when she's at home.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

Tenacity

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Lexington,

What are you receiving from the LTR relationship that you didn't receive when you were spinning plates? Is the woman actually doing some traditional women like activities like supporting you, championing you, she has your back, and you have this feel of loyalty from her that even if you were DOWN...she would try to pull you back up?

Or, are you doing very well in life right now (you listed number 6, having a high SMV) and she's just GOING along for the ride? Isn't it easy to "love someone" when they are on top of the world, but what happens if the fun stops.....you come crashing down....you lose your confidence, etc.? She is going to help BUILD you back up, or just hop on another ship?

I believe a guy should strive to be the total package, which would give him a high SMV as you pointed out, which in turn would increase his quantity of a.ss overall. But the reason the a.ss increases is because those girls are looking to hop on a gravy train, have some fun, etc. But what happens if the train stops? What happens if you are having a BAD MONTH and can't be so "****y Funny" right now, can't be so entertaining, don't feel like dycking them down.........is she going to be there to help you back up or is she going to leave?
 

zekko

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Social Leper said:
There seems to be a misunderstanding on your part about the definition of screening.

If you screened properly you wouldn't be turning a ho into a housewife anyway.
I didn't misunderstand, I was agreeing with you. You should screen, so that you don't try to turn a ho into a housewife. That's what I was saying.

Tenacity said:
What are you receiving from the LTR relationship that you didn't receive when you were spinning plates? Is the woman actually doing some traditional women like activities like supporting you, championing you, she has your back, and you have this feel of loyalty from her that even if you were DOWN...she would try to pull you back up?
So if you want to spin plates, spin plates. I happen to prefer being in a LTR, at least at my age I do. I don't care to put in the energy of collecting numbers or finding new plates to spin every week. But even if you are looking for an LTR eventually, spinning plates is not a bad way to meet a decent girl.

I am not delusional, I have nothing to be delusional about. I was happy ON MY OWN, as I lived happily on my own before my current girl moved in. The girl only ADDS to my life, I am not DEPENDENT on her. We've lived together for 11 years now. We're not married, I'm not getting married, and we don't live in a state with common law marriage.

I have no illusions about the nature of women. You can't control women, and you shouldn't trust what you can't fully control. That's why I won't get married. I like what Vulpine said about walking down the path. Right now we're walking down the path together, but at some point I FULLY EXPECT one of us to take a fork in the road, and take a different path. Until that happens, I'm enjoying the relationship. If we stay together, great. If we split up, then I get to go date other women. It's WIN/WIN. I have no delusions about "FOREVER" or living in some kind of fairy tale. I've learned through the school of hard knocks that most relationships have a shelf life.

Tenacity said:
I'm thinking they are delusional, but I want to have some sort of discussion here. If you guys have some secret place you find these quality women at or you are using some secret seduction tactic......can you PLEASE SHARE the information??
No secrets here. I found her in the outer edges of my social circle, I met her at a dinner someone I worked with was giving, she was in her family. We just chatted a bit, no big deal. Then we ended up running into each other several times, and we always stopped to talk a bit. I didn't find her in a bar, or a club, or online dating.

Poon King says girls want a winner. I don't say this to brag, but I am a high value male. I don't mean that I'm some super hot guy, because I'm not. And I've spun my share of plates, but I'm sure there are other guys here who have slept with more women than I have. That's one mistake they make on this forum. They think that the more chicks a guy sleeps with, the higher value he is. You shouldn't define a man's value by women, you should define it by his accomplishments. Women want a guy they can brag about to their friends, because women take a lot of validation from the status of the guy they are seeing.

I've always believed in self improvement (one reason I like this forum), and I've had decades to work on improving. I don't mess around with C&F, I'm myself. I will tease girls, because that is naturally in my personality. But I am always myself, and I refuse to compromise on that. And I think because of that, I tend to attract nicer girls. As opposed to trying to act like a douchebag and attracting club slvts.

I've been blessed, and I've been fortunate, because my health is good and all, but I've worked for decades to make my life exactly what I want it to be. I take pleasure in simple things, I don't like my life complicated, so things usually go pretty smoothly. That's not to say everything is perfect for me, it's not. But I honestly don't have much to complain about. And one reason for that is that I have prioritized what needs to be done, and I've put a lot of work in.

I also live in one of the more conservative areas of the country, maybe that's why there are still a few women around here who are not outlandish despicable wh0res.
 

backbreaker

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A few thoughts


1. The thing about good LTR's is that they are quite binary; there are no semi good relationships, there aren't HB 6 relationships lol. They either work, or they do not work. My point being, is that you're going to run through a bunch of bull****, and then one day it's just gonna fit / work.


The proof is in the pudding; guys, in this very thread, who were hell bent on LTR's looking at their post history are now in LTR's. Myself included. Lexington, etc.


The thing is, if you pick anyone but the right person, it's gonna suck ass. If you get married / have a LTR for any reason except the fact that the 2 of you really care about each other, it's gonna suck ass.



2. Ive been married for 2 and a half years, been dating my wife for twice that amount and I'm still quite smitten with her. She's still smoking hot to me, she is still sweet and nice and cracks ****ty jokes lol and tickles me when i'm trying to work. But then again I like myself. The thing about it is, I like myself, I'm not defined by my relationship with my wife. I don't look to her / us / our marriage for meaning in life. I mean we're married, and we have a son, about to have another daughter and all that is great but that's not why I'm happy.


3. Dating a LTR is like buying a car. If you go to the car lot with **** credit and you say you want a car, you can get a car but what are the odds that the car is going to run, not need a new engine lol, is not a total POS. Butif you got really good credit you can pay a little bit more and get a brand spankin new car with all types of warranties and **** on it and you're more likely to get a better relationship. my point being, as Lexington stated you should not even b e considering / thinking about LTR's into your SMV is high becuase you have no idea whats really out there / available yet. I don't have to tell my wife to not be a **** lol or hope she has sex with me but she's a quality woman, that would not gie me the time of day if i didnt have my **** together.


4.
I think it's partly screening - you can't turn a ho into a housewife. But the other part is to keep the frame. The man MUST keep the frame. So I'd say it's half screening and half keeping the frame. Sh!t, BE the frame.
About a month ago I was having a pretty ****ty day. i mean really really ****ty. I had lost 2 clients in the same day over some bull****, my son decided he wanted to try to learn how to throw a curveball.. in the house lol.. and broke a window, one of my fish died and my dad who i hadn't heard from in like 2-3 years just out of the blue hit me up and asks for a good chunk of money.

So I'm talking to my wife about my day and mind you all day long she's been getting a mani / pedi and getting her hair done and going grocery shopping. So I'm griping and venting and **** and while i'm taling toher she gets on her phone and emails me a meme about "seems like you have a case of being a little *****"


I'm like alright lol. you want to play the game raw like that lol. It was a friday night. I didn't yell at her, i didn't argue with her. I laughed it off, called my girl friend and told her we were going out/ i needed to get out the house and my wife is trippin lol. so we go and drink and kick it and have a good time. i didn't do **** i wasn't supposed ot, i was a good boy, but still.


so i walk through the door at about 2-3am in the morning and my wife is sitting there like my mom"where have you been?!" I told her, you were right, i was being a little ***** so I just got out the house and went and had fun.

Realizing that this was all 100% her fault for being silly / having a bit of a princess complex lol, she told me she was sorry and that she should be more understanding and she understands that she has it made in a sense. She blamed it on her hormones for being pregnant which i don't doubt, but still.


That, is how you keep frame. every once in a while you got to remind your LTR you have options.


screening will handle 80% of the problems a man has. But women, are women, and by nature will do women **** like **** test, etc. That is what frame is for.
 

Colossus

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All the LTR haters will come around eventually. They all do. It sounds trite, but they just haven't met the right girl yet. I've been here 10 years. It's just a phase of growth.

"Meeting the right girl" also does not necessarily negate all you have learned. It does not change the nature of women, but you may see it in a different light.

There is a reason why most of the vets either leave sosuave, end up in LTRs, or both. They meet a girl who stands apart, and they keep her; or they just get tired of seeing the same questions, same lessons, and same problems come up here day after day. There is nothing new under the sun, and we aren't reinventing wheel here. King Solomon was talking about the pitfalls of h0rs and women's and lack of virtue 3,000 years ago. Each man has to learn the same lessons in his own way.

Great list from Lexington, btw.
 

Tenacity

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backbacker,

Okay but why wasn't she there for you in a supportive role when you were having a bad day? She made a joke about it, basically telling you to fvck off? Or am I missing something here?


zekko and Colossus,

I'm waiting for you guys to tell me what you are getting from the chick that you didn't get when dating? Also, I'm waiting for you guys to tell me that she supports you, is loyal, cooks, cleans, or does something for you in terms of wanting to HELP YOU rather than just enjoying the ride of being with a dude with his shyt together. I understand you guys have your shyt together and you have a chick "riding" with you that is somewhat positive most of the time and doesn't have an attitude problem....I get that....I'm saying what does she do FOR YOU that she wasn't doing outside of the relationship?


That's my question to you three guys, because right now I can just go and run into an relationship tomorrow. So what? What am I getting from these people that's going to be different?

Quite frankly with the backbacker example, I would have cussed that chick out. Here I am having a bad day and you are supposed to be my "soul mate" (whatever the hell that is) and you are cracking jokes? I have to implement some "tactic" like running out with a friend just to GET YOU to act like you have some sense? This is what I'm talking about, who the hell has time for that bullshyt? Are you an adult chick or not? And if you are an adult, why don't the fvck you act like it?

Lol, I'm telling you guys that's one thing I don't do, I don't do seduction or player tactics. I'm straight up, blunt, direct and REAL....and I expect the same from a chick. I shouldn't have to use some "tactic" to get you to act with some damn sense, I'm just going to cuss you out and kick you out of my apartment.

That's why I never understood the concept of what a shyt test is or supposed to be, I'm out of college, and I didn't sign up today to take a damn Scan-tron. I'm a fun loving guy but hey lol, I don't get the concept of a chick doing DUMB shyt or fvcked up shyt to you, and you are supposed to just let it go or not get annoyed by it?
 

Just because a woman listens to you and acts interested in what you say doesn't mean she really is. She might just be acting polite, while silently wishing that the date would hurry up and end, or that you would go away... and never come back.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

ZTIME

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Tenacity said:
backbacker,

Okay but why wasn't she there for you in a supportive role when you were having a bad day? She made a joke about it, basically telling you to fvck off? Or am I missing something here?


zekko and Colossus,

I'm waiting for you guys to tell me what you are getting from the chick that you didn't get when dating? Also, I'm waiting for you guys to tell me that she supports you, is loyal, cooks, cleans, or does something for you in terms of wanting to HELP YOU rather than just enjoying the ride of being with a dude with his shyt together. I understand you guys have your shyt together and you have a chick "riding" with you that is somewhat positive most of the time and doesn't have an attitude problem....I get that....I'm saying what does she do FOR YOU that she wasn't doing outside of the relationship?


That's my question to you three guys, because right now I can just go and run into an relationship tomorrow. So what? What am I getting from these people that's going to be different?

Quite frankly with the backbacker example, I would have cussed that chick out. Here I am having a bad day and you are supposed to be my "soul mate" (whatever the hell that is) and you are cracking jokes? I have to implement some "tactic" like running out with a friend just to GET YOU to act like you have some sense? This is what I'm talking about, who the hell has time for that bullshyt? Are you an adult chick or not? And if you are an adult, why don't the fvck you act like it?

Lol, I'm telling you guys that's one thing I don't do, I don't do seduction or player tactics. I'm straight up, blunt, direct and REAL....and I expect the same from a chick. I shouldn't have to use some "tactic" to get you to act with some damn sense, I'm just going to cuss you out and kick you out of my apartment.

That's why I never understood the concept of what a shyt test is or supposed to be, I'm out of college, and I didn't sign up today to take a damn Scan-tron. I'm a fun loving guy but hey lol, I don't get the concept of a chick doing DUMB shyt or fvcked up shyt to you, and you are supposed to just let it go or not get annoyed by it?
Funny story. I was at my favorite lunch spot today. I go there about 4 days a week. (meat and vegetable selection works for my diet). My server is the same everyday. About every three days I ask her for a bag of oyster crackers. The first time I did this, she asked me if I was joking. I said no, and she asked what they were for. I explained that in the lobby of my company I keep a rescued amazon bird that happens to love oyster crackers.

Today while having lunch I showed her a picture of the bird eating an oyster cracker she had provided. She smiled and asked what it meant when I said that the bird was a rescue bird. I explained that the bird had been attacked by a cat which stuck it's claw in her eye and bit off one of her toes. I told her it took me a year to get the bird to come out of it's cage and eat from a human's hand.

Her reply......... "Wow, I wish I had someone who would come and rescue me and take care of me!" My response of course was "Start by rescuing yourself and you'll feel better".

I'm not against LTR's, but there are way to many women out there with this wounded bird mentality just waiting for the right guy to come along and take care of them. And the worst part is that sometimes the red flags aren't as easy to read. Some of these women are so good at hiding their insecurities and problems that by the time you figure them out, you're already 7 months deep in a relationship.

I'm happy for the guys on here that are happy with their current relationships. My place in this world is not meant to judge any of you. I can only share my own experience as it applies to a given topic. I don't regret any of my LTR's, except the last one. So live life as you like it. Just try to make the memories good ones.
 

backbreaker

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Okay but why wasn't she there for you in a supportive role when you were having a bad day? She made a joke about it, basically telling you to fvck off? Or am I missing something here?
first of all, ,for the most part I can deal with my bad days myself. I've been through alot and the **** I consider a bad day, really isn't all that bad in the grand scheme of things. Even that day wasn't "bad" in the historical context of some of the **** I've been through. And most of the time, 98% of the time i would say when I do have something to say she's eager to be there for me becuase I don't realy oepn up emotionally alot even to her. She is always on a feelz kick "how are you feeling" "why don't you talk to me about stuff" and the tidbits I do give her she eats up.

IN short, she was trying to be funny, and she's not, and she was trying to be funny at a time when I really didn't need her to be funny I needed her to give me a back massage and just listen to me vent.


There are no princesses. My wife is great for me but she' snot perfect. **** I'm not perfect. There are without question things I could do to be a better husband, i can stop being such a prick to her friends lol. I don't like but a handful of her 50 odd friends. When I get caught up into work I neglect my wife at times, never my son, but i do my wife. at least once a week she gives me the puppy dog look when i'm working at 1-2 in the morning and she wants some QT.

At the end of the ay I know she cares, deeply. I just don't like the context of being called a little ***** so I wanted to nip that in the ass. Plus if you haven't caught on she's pregnant and I remember the first time her hormones were all over the place, we'd get in fights over ice cream and **** lol so she has more lee way
 

Colossus

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Tenacity said:
zekko and Colossus,

I'm waiting for you guys to tell me what you are getting from the chick that you didn't get when dating? Also, I'm waiting for you guys to tell me that she supports you, is loyal, cooks, cleans, or does something for you in terms of wanting to HELP YOU rather than just enjoying the ride of being with a dude with his shyt together. I understand you guys have your shyt together and you have a chick "riding" with you that is somewhat positive most of the time and doesn't have an attitude problem....I get that....I'm saying what does she do FOR YOU that she wasn't doing outside of the relationship?
You must have missed my post above:

It's a bit of both, but mostly her.

When she cooks for me, refills my plate, cleans my dishes and does my laundry, sucks my c0ck almost every mutherfvcking DAY....those things make me feel good.

When she listens to me without touching her phone, offers me encouragement or suggestions, and does her part to keep the house clean and functional....those things make me feel good.

When she doesn't nag me, doesn't break my balls for something I didn't mean to do, and doesn't take everything I say into some solipsistic narcissistic context....those things make me feel good.

Now granted, I wasn't a miserable fvck before we met, and neither was she. She was a virgin and I had worked out a lot of my issues with women. I also had no delusions that there was a pot of gold at the end of the pus$y rainbow. I knew that sex with even the hottest women would eventually get old, and what really mattered was what kind of human being she was if I'm going to be spending almost every single day with her.

To reiterate Social Leper, I really believe at least 50% of marital and LTR happiness is finding/choosing the right woman.

Step 1. Find a good girl, with low or no mileage.
Step 2. Be a Man.
Step 3. You cant control everything. When in doubt refer to step 2
.
 

zekko

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Tenacity said:
zekko and Colossus,

I'm waiting for you guys to tell me what you are getting from the chick that you didn't get when dating? Also, I'm waiting for you guys to tell me that she supports you, is loyal, cooks, cleans, or does something for you in terms of wanting to HELP YOU rather than just enjoying the ride of being with a dude with his shyt together. it?
As I said before,
"Sex and companionship are obvious perks, but what I enjoy is the partnership. We both have a stake in taking care of the house, the vehicles, the yard, keeping the food on the table, spending quality time together, etc. It's nice to have someone going the same way that you are."

Really, what I enjoy is the partnership. I mean, yeah she works full time, and yeah she helps with the cooking and cleaning, but there is a bit of her being along for the ride, as you say. That's because I'm the male, I'm the leader. I think PUAs talk about how you have to take a girl into YOUR life, not the other way around. What I get is a woman who is interested in investing herself into MY life.

You keep asking this question, like we are supposed to convince you to get into an LTR. But I'm in an LTR because I enjoy being in one, that's really all there is to it. It's that simple. If you don't want to be, then I wouldn't get into one. I spent years spinning plates, and those years were invaluable as far as building experience goes. But I never found them satisfying, at a certain point ultimately I found them unsatisfying. Like Colossus says, maybe it's a phase of growth.
 

Tenacity

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zekko said:
As I said before,
"Sex and companionship are obvious perks, but what I enjoy is the partnership. We both have a stake in taking care of the house, the vehicles, the yard, keeping the food on the table, spending quality time together, etc. It's nice to have someone going the same way that you are."

Really, what I enjoy is the partnership. I mean, yeah she works full time, and yeah she helps with the cooking and cleaning, but there is a bit of her being along for the ride, as you say. That's because I'm the male, I'm the leader. I think PUAs talk about how you have to take a girl into YOUR life, not the other way around. What I get is a woman who is interested in investing herself into MY life.

You keep asking this question, like we are supposed to convince you to get into an LTR. But I'm in an LTR because I enjoy being in one, that's really all there is to it. It's that simple. If you don't want to be, then I wouldn't get into one. I spent years spinning plates, and those years were invaluable as far as building experience goes. But I never found them satisfying, at a certain point ultimately I found them unsatisfying. Like Colossus says, maybe it's a phase of growth.
Got it, maybe I missed over the part earlier. Actually THIS structure makes sense, because the girl is actually a partner and is invested into the situation.

I haven't found a chick like this, the chicks I get aren't trying to invest shyt, they just want to go along for the joy ride and get whatever they can get out of it (dyck, head, free dates, weave payments, etc).

Maybe it's ME, maybe it's the women, maybe it's the market....I don't know what the hell it is, all I know is that these have been my results in which the only thing I'm getting from them are people I can have SEX with and use as a Companion when I go to places like the movies, restaurants, etc. Also someone I can text and talk to, and chill with in general. But it doesn't go beyond that.

I do keep up some layer of barrier between my total self and the women, because I just don't fvcking trust them. I don't get the feel from ANY woman I meet that this chick gives a rat's a.ss about me personally, so maybe that's adding to the problem where MAYBE they could become this financial partner but I'm not allowing it? I don't know, but I just don't want a chick ANYWHERE NEAR my finances. I would just like them to show some loyalty, care, and support, I don't need a financial tag team partner, I don't think I would EVER allow myself to be financially partnered with a woman.

I don't know, what I do know is that the marriage thing I have totally opted out of and I'm in talks with a Urologist to get this Vasectomy done. I honestly don't think I'm going to meet a chick that will bring to the table anything different than what I've been getting and I consider right now to be one of my PEAK years. Yes, I believe I will make more money as I continue to age but right now I'm the perfect combination of personality, sexuality, decent looks, a nice car, a nice place AND with a decent level of money. And despite all of that, THIS is all I'm getting??

The writing is on the wall for me, I guess it's just not meant for me to have these fulfilling relationships that you guys speak of. As a result, the smart thing for me to do is make sure I put the layer of protections in place so that NONE of these women I'm seeing now (or will be seeing) has the ability to financially harm me.

Because if I were to get ANY of them pregnant, despite having the qualities to be a great Father, they are going to fight that shyt tooth and nail to PREVENT me from Fathering anybody as well as financially bankrupt me. And Lord help me if I were to MARRY any of these people...they wouldn't just bankrupt me but they would send me back into homelessness and that's when I would snap and take my life (and their life as well). So to avoid all of this bullshyt, it's best that I opt out of everything because I just can't see how these things would turn out good for me in the end. I don't see it.
 
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