LTRs

[zekko]

I think LTRs get a raw deal around here, a bad reputation. Not only do posters not value them, they will tell you that you are beta if you are in one, or if you would like to be. I know most of this stuff is geared at the entry level and younger guys, who should be thinking more about spinning plates. But there seems to be little acknowledgement that at some point this can get old for many of us, and that once you sow your wild oats you may find yourself wanting something with a little more substance.

This is partly because sex is way overvalued here, and especially on the general forum. I don't agree with the idea that spinning plates prevents you from having oneitis. The last time I got hung up on a chick (I knew she was toxic so I never acted on it), I was seeing other women at the same time. It didn't make me want her any less. If you are spinning a lot of plates, often there is one you would rather be with than the others.

I have to say that when I think about what I have learned about women, I have learned far more about them while I was in LTRs than when I was spinning plates and screwing around. This makes sense, since the relationship is much deeper.

Look at the movie Swingers, which is often held up as a good movie to learn pickup lessons from. The Jon Favreau character does many things wrong. He is hung up on his ex girlfriend, which is a mistake. He gets a number from a girl and then dials her answering machine like eight straight times, repulsing her. But he redeems himself at the end when he picks up a smoking hot Heather Graham in a bar. He seals the deal by showing his skill at swing dancing with her, impressing everyone with the "twirly whirly" stuff.

But how does he know how to swing dance? It's because he took ballroom dancing lessons with his ex girlfriend. If he hadn't had a steady girlfriend he never would have known how to swing dance, he learned it because he was in a LTR.

 

[MOTU]

I have determined that I am an LTR kind of guy. I like the intimacy that comes with it. I banged 9 chicks in the first half of last year and it was exhausting. The whole dating, plate spinning thing just seemed like work to me.

I don't feel empty without an LTR though... I have a GF now and I think if we break up I would just take a break from b!tches altogether for a while.

 

[zekko]

Breakups are seldom pleasant, but you can avoid a lot of the "hellishness" by not getting married, and by making sure you never invest too heavily into them. The woman is just there to enhance your life, you should never think that you can't make it without her or anything like that. Most relationships have shelf lives, especially in modern society, so I always keep that in the back of my mind.

I think that if 90% of your relationships are raw deals, then you need to screen better and be a lot more picky about who you enter into a LTR with.

I also think that it is probably easier to keep these things in perspective as you get older. You're more likely to see the end of a relationship as the end of the world when you're younger and more inexperienced.

 

[Rainman4707]

One guy posted on here saying you shouldn't keep a plate longer than three months.

I know one will lose power when entering a LTR, but if I like a girl I'm going to see her longer than three months. That's me though. I know some guys want to spin plates.

 

[Die Hard]

I've never been with a woman longer than three months... Three months is enough to establish a strong enough emotional connection to make it hurt when things end, though...

Things work in a clear way with me, when I look at it. I either:

1. Think the girl is fvcking awesome and wanna keep her around for a long time. If we keep seeing each other for over 2 months, my emotional connection to her will have become strong enough to feel sad and hurt when things end.

Or:

2. I Think she's "just okay", in which case I don't really care how long it lasts and will probably end things myself sooner or later. Whether she is the one who ends it or I am the one, I won't feel much pain.


It's the cases that belong in the first category which might demand me keeping my emotions in check and try to prevent myself from getting hurt. But hey, it doesn't really work anyway... If I think she is awesome, I will start to grow feelings for her, whether I like it or not.

The only way to prevent that from happening, is by denying myself certain experiences with her which make me grow closer to her. You know, having deep conversations, sharing personal things, cuddling and caressing in a sweet (non sexual) way, allowing her to come closer to my emotional center.

But I'm not gonna deny myself those experiences, I am a very cold person inside who has been emotionally shut off from his youth. I need these experiences with women, they feel like some of the most precious experiences I can possibly have in my life...

Sure, relationships pretty much always have a shelf life and when it ends, I will feel hurt because I allowed myself these experiences and the emotional bond they caused. But whatever, I feel like I'm going through life like a robot, anyway, just going through the motions and then one day you die, so what was the meaning of it all? I wanna at least feel something in my life, I wanna feel some warmth in my life...

But the more I have these experiences, the better I'm able to handle getting hurt. Plus, it's a conscious choice, I'm not getting fooled the way I was when I was a teenager. I used to believe in "love" and always being together, all the romantic Disney crap. Once a girl left me, my whole belief system would be shattered, lol.

But now I know how things work, I EXPECT the relationship to end, I EXPECT her to start acting like a devilish wh0re after the "honeymoon period" ends etc. I'm aware of the way things work between men and women and this awareness in itself allows me to handle myself better.

When I'm opening up to a woman and allowing myself to be emotionally vulnerable to her, I realize the moment is fleeting, I realize that this same woman who is giving me such warm feelings inside RIGHT NOW, will probably act like a treacherous, cold-hearted bytch in the future. I keep things in perspective and try to connect my feelings to THE MOMENT instead of internalizing the feelings. The latter will happen when you do daydreaming about her and re-live those happy moments with her in your memory. So yeah, daydreaming about girls is a no-no :nono:

As a man, I would like to be able to have feelings for a woman and at the same time not get hurt by her. Which seems like a contradiction, so you either choose to allow yourself ALL emotions, good and bad, or NO emotions at all... The last option is not my choice, I might as well be dead then...

The contradiction from the first option becomes smaller the more you deal with it, though. Like I said, by being aware of things, connecting emotions to moments instead of internalizing them, not allowing yourself to daydream and let your emotions spin out of control etc. you become better at alleviating this contradiction, you become better at finding balance between OPENING your heart and PROTECTING your heart.



Sh!t, why you guys make me write down these deep contemplations? I just wanna be simple minded and bang her brains out!

 

[Rainman4707]

I've never been with a woman longer than three months... Three months is enough to establish a strong enough emotional connection to make it hurt when things end, though...

Things work in a clear way with me, when I look at it. I either:

1. Think the girl is fvcking awesome and wanna keep her around for a long time. If we keep seeing each other for over 2 months, my emotional connection to her will have become strong enough to feel sad and hurt when things end.

Or:

2. I Think she's "just okay", in which case I don't really care how long it lasts and will probably end things myself sooner or later. Whether she is the one who ends it or I am the one, I won't feel much pain.


It's the cases that belong in the first category which might demand me keeping my emotions in check and try to prevent myself from getting hurt. But hey, it doesn't really work anyway... If I think she is awesome, I will start to grow feelings for her, whether I like it or not.

The only way to prevent that from happening, is by denying myself certain experiences with her which make me grow closer to her. You know, having deep conversations, sharing personal things, cuddling and caressing in a sweet (non sexual) way, allowing her to come closer to my emotional center.

But I'm not gonna deny myself those experiences, I am a very cold person inside who has been emotionally shut off from his youth. I need these experiences with women, they feel like some of the most precious experiences I can possibly have in my life...

Sure, relationships pretty much always have a shelf life and when it ends, I will feel hurt because I allowed myself these experiences and the emotional bond they caused. But whatever, I feel like I'm going through life like a robot, anyway, just going through the motions and then one day you die, so what was the meaning of it all? I wanna at least feel something in my life, I wanna feel some warmth in my life...

But the more I have these experiences, the better I'm able to handle getting hurt. Plus, it's a conscious choice, I'm not getting fooled the way I was when I was a teenager. I used to believe in "love" and always being together, all the romantic Disney crap. Once a girl left me, my whole belief system would be shattered, lol.

But now I know how things work, I EXPECT the relationship to end, I EXPECT her to start acting like a devilish wh0re after the "honeymoon period" ends etc. I'm aware of the way things work between men and women and this awareness in itself allows me to handle myself better.

When I'm opening up to a woman and allowing myself to be emotionally vulnerable to her, I realize the moment is fleeting, I realize that this same woman who is giving me such warm feelings inside RIGHT NOW, will probably act like a treacherous, cold-hearted bytch in the future. I keep things in perspective and try to connect my feelings to THE MOMENT instead of internalizing the feelings. The latter will happen when you do daydreaming about her and re-live those happy moments with her in your memory. So yeah, daydreaming about girls is a no-no :nono:

As a man, I would like to be able to have feelings for a woman and at the same time not get hurt by her. Which seems like a contradiction, so you either choose to allow yourself ALL emotions, good and bad, or NO emotions at all... The last option is not my choice, I might as well be dead then...

The contradiction from the first option becomes less the more you deal with it, though. Like I said, by being aware of things, connecting emotions to moments instead of internalizing them, not allowing yourself to daydream and let your emotions spin out of control etc. you become better at alleviating this contradiction, you become better at finding balance between OPENING your heart and PROTECTING your heart.



Sh!t, why you guys make me write down these deep contemplations? I just wanna be simple minded and bang her brains out!

That's sad.

 

[Desdinova]

I enjoy the natural progression of a LTR and having only one woman that I need to focus on. There's nothing quite like that reinforced bond that you develop.

However....

I think LTRs get a raw deal around here, a bad reputation.

Keeping a woman for a LTR comes with a lot of problems and risks. Women can be on their best behaviour for upwards of two years before their real personalities show their ugly heads. There aren't a lot of quality women out there to choose from, and most of them don't have the ability to carry their end of the responsibility in a LTR. If they did, then the membership here would be much lower.

This is partly because sex is way overvalued here

For men, sex is overvalued in general. Once a man can stop putting such incredible value on sex, he gains sexual control in the relationship. She can no longer taunt him with her vagina because he knows he can just as easily get off with his hand.

The reason why lots of men resort to screwing random broads is because LTRs are time consuming, require a lot of energy, are loaded with emotional risk, and let's not forget all the problems that the woman comes with (which includes the desire to eventually marry.)

I cannot blame anybody for taking the exit route on LTRs. They're a lot of work and most of the time they have very little benefit. But when you actually encounter a woman who helps make the LTR awesome, it's extremely rewarding (see Die Hard's post)

 

[zekko]

As a man, I would like to be able to have feelings for a woman and at the same time not get hurt by her.

Like you say, if you close yourself off to having experiences and emotions, then you might as well be dead. Yes, breakups can be sad and can hurt. But so what? Even if you work out heavy, your muscles are going to be sore. If you get punched in the nose, it's going to hurt. Some guys here act like they are so afraid of feeling a little pain. You can't live life without feeling some pain.

Like you say, the key is to keep a balance between opening your heart and protecting it. I wake up every day and try to realize that the relationship could end at any time, I try to keep that mindset and it helps keep my on an even keel.

I cannot blame anybody for taking the exit route on LTRs. They're a lot of work and most of the time they have very little benefit. But when you actually encounter a woman who helps make the LTR awesome, it's extremely rewarding (see Die Hard's post)

I'm not trying to convince anyone to get into an LTR or to stop spinning plates. A lot of older guys here have embraced eternal bachelorhood (like Scara), and that's fine for them. You should be able to be happy no matter what situation you find yourself in. I just get tired of seeing LTRs demonized around here. Even Rollo is married.

I actually think that plate spinning takes a lot of work. I would also say that if a woman doesn't help make the LTR awesome, then why would you want to enter into one with her?

 

[hockeyfreak79]

Like you say, if you close yourself off to having experiences and emotions, then you might as well be dead. Yes, breakups can be sad and can hurt. But so what? Even if you work out heavy, your muscles are going to be sore. If you get punched in the nose, it's going to hurt. Some guys here act like they are so afraid of feeling a little pain. You can't live life without feeling some pain.

Like you say, the key is to keep a balance between opening your heart and protecting it. I wake up every day and try to realize that the relationship could end at any time, I try to keep that mindset and it helps keep my on an even keel.


I'm not trying to convince anyone to get into an LTR or to stop spinning plates. A lot of older guys here have embraced eternal bachelorhood (like Scara), and that's fine for them. You should be able to be happy no matter what situation you find yourself in. I just get tired of seeing LTRs demonized around here. Even Rollo is married.

I actually think that plate spinning takes a lot of work. I would also say that if a woman doesn't help make the LTR awesome, then why would you want to enter into one with her?

Plate spinning does wear me out, I'm too busy half the time playing hockey other hobbies or hanging out with friends/family now. Winter is the perfect timing for a break from it all.

How do y'all define an LTR? 6mo, 12mo? Living together or not living together?

I've been in 2, 1 years relationship since my divorce 3-4 years ago? Sprinkle in some flings inbetween but nothing worth wild really.

I ended the first relationship cause it just wasn't working for me anymore. Was it painful, a little bit, more disappointed than "sad". Did I feel guilty for dumping/hurting her? Yes, but that feeling fades away with time.

She wanted to keep seeing me even if it was just FWB. I just couldn't do it, that's not fair to her. I wanted her to move on & forget about me. It's crazy too cause sexual chemistry was off the charts but I just knew in the long run it wasn't going anywhere.

The other 1 year relationship, well her hypergammy/babby rabbies was in overdrive. 32, no kids, never married. I now know why!

As the relationship progressed I could just slowly see the desperation she had for wanting these things and more. That's just to much damn pressure & not natural for me, yeah feelings where hurt. More hers than mine I suppose but it wasn't a "bad break-up". She wanted to stay friends even though I told long before hand that I just don't do that. HA she thought she was the exception to the rule, imagine that!

Yes, I'm a LTR guy as long as she is worthy of it & past my tests. I too enjoy the itimacy, emotional connection all that stuff.

There are different levels involved here too of course, for me those levels would increase if she lived with me. That's when sh*t gets real! Neither of them lived with me.


http://youtu.be/lejuFlumBo4

http://youtu.be/Ud4HuAzHEUc

 

[Colossus]

LTRs really run the gamut; they can be utter misery or the best thing in your life. They do get a bad rap around here but you have to look at our selection bias. This is a forum of dudes who have been screwed over, cant seem to win with women, or have other issues socializing in general. Yes there are successful and happy dudes here but they do tend to fade away once they've reached that point. Only a few stick around.

I have been both the most miserable and the most happy in my life during LTRs. The thing you have to understand is that once you care about someone beyond the level of a fvck toy, you open yourself to being hurt. That's just life----no amount of prophylaxis or strategics can eliminate all risk. Some guys choose to just not take any risk; they refuse to go into an LTR or commit to any one girl for fear of failure, heartbreak, losing money, etc. Ultimately I think that is a coward's play, because by choosing to avoid all risk you never really get to to live. I'm not advocating haphazardly jumping in to commitments with girls by any means, but if you find one you really like and she has passed your qualification standards and the test of time---whatever that is for you---then sooner or later you need to take a leap of faith or just cut bait. Don't half-ass it.

I think guys who come here fall into this trap of trying to find the perfect balance of getting laid and not committing to any one girl. They are scared. They might develop short game but their long game is untested, broken, or non-existent. You can play like this for a time, but it gets empty after a while and it's not for everybody. IMO there is much more fulfillment in a healthy LTR. Pvssy is pvssy boys. It all feels the same once you've had enough.

Good women----really good, loyal, chaste, sweet-hearted women are extremely difficult to find. But they do exist. These are the girls you go all-in for. Not like an AFC, but like a man who has some experience under his belt and knows what does (or more importantly what doesn't) make him happy.

LTRs, even the best ones, are not always easy. I look at it like a garden. If you have a beautiful garden, you need to tend it for it to produce fruit. You have to feed it and water it and pull out weeds as they arise. You'll have good crops and not so good crops. But on the whole, a well-tended garden in healthy soil will produce good crops year after year. You cant just sit back on your laurels and expect bountiful harvests to come your way. You have to keep bettering yourself, address issues if you have them, pay it forward with regards to making her feel loved and respected. And she has to do the same for it to work. This isn't chump stuff, it's real life stuff. This is what comes AFTER you have sown your oats and you want more of a partner in life and not just a box to pound. There are no guarantees of success. But you can live your life like a pvssy or you can take a leap of faith (an educated leap of faith of course) when or if you DO find that girl that stands apart from all the others.

 

[ZTIME]

Man, read all of these posts, and this is one tough situation!

By reading most of the stuff in here, there are guys that believe in LTR's and guys that don't. I'm just too confused to really make an educated decision.

I think that guys have a pre determined set of rules and expectations when it comes to dating women and getting into an LTR with them. So we date them and call them a plate and continue to search for another woman that might reach our expectation levels quicker. It's weird, but as were doing this the original "plate" still has the opportunity to prove her worth and become an LTR instead of a plate.

I think that women do the exact same thing! They'll qualify you with there pre determined needs, wants, and desires while still searching to find someone else who may meet them quicker. If they don't find them quickly enough.....Well, you're the "next man up".

Here's the conundrum....If all relationships start this way, won't they end this way? Sure there will be this time of fvcking all of the time and trying to adjust to each other's needs (Honeymoon), but once that's over won't it just end in the same vicious cycle it started at? You both yell and scream at each other and try to win the "exit game" just so you can start the same cycle over with someone new?

Maybe I'm just jaded. My last three relationships were: 14yrs., 2.5yrs., 3.5yrs. Maybe I should start back at the beginning with my pre determined set of rules and expectations before I commit to anyone.

 

[RangerMIke]

Making an LTR work well is a lot of work. I've been in a couple of exclusive LTRs since my divorce... they're nice... but they don't last. Sooner or later our paths diverge. Just the way it is. If you can find a high quality woman that makes you happy keep her. Never compromise your purpose and happiness for her... And she shouldn't do the same for you. If either of you aren't getting their needs filled why continue?

 

[Poon King]

Most people have been brainwashed into believing that their lives are "empty" without a LTR... which is utter nonsense (and has already been said on this thread).

Some LTRs are good and some are bad. Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. When I sh!t on LTRs.. my main objective is the lower their importance in the eyes of men.

Lets be honest.. if the ONLY way for you to be happy in this world/life is to be in a LTR with a woman and your life is "empty" without one.. well.. that's pathetic.

There is more to life than women. Women are not oxygen. And once you craft a life that doesn't revolved around making women priority #1.. you will find you are happier AND have more power in your relationships with women.

Wanting women is fine. NEEDING women is pathetic. Therefore, anyone who "NEEDS" a LTR to be happy or "whole" is pathetic.

 

[backbeat]

I think LTRs get a raw deal around here, a bad reputation. Not only do posters not value them, they will tell you that you are beta if you are in one, or if you would like to be. I know most of this stuff is geared at the entry level and younger guys, who should be thinking more about spinning plates. But there seems to be little acknowledgement that at some point this can get old for many of us, and that once you sow your wild oats you may find yourself wanting something with a little more substance.

This is partly because sex is way overvalued here, and especially on the general forum. I don't agree with the idea that spinning plates prevents you from having oneitis. The last time I got hung up on a chick (I knew she was toxic so I never acted on it), I was seeing other women at the same time. It didn't make me want her any less. If you are spinning a lot of plates, often there is one you would rather be with than the others.

I have to say that when I think about what I have learned about women, I have learned far more about them while I was in LTRs than when I was spinning plates and screwing around. This makes sense, since the relationship is much deeper.

Look at the movie Swingers, which is often held up as a good movie to learn pickup lessons from. The Jon Favreau character does many things wrong. He is hung up on his ex girlfriend, which is a mistake. He gets a number from a girl and then dials her answering machine like eight straight times, repulsing her. But he redeems himself at the end when he picks up a smoking hot Heather Graham in a bar. He seals the deal by showing his skill at swing dancing with her, impressing everyone with the "twirly whirly" stuff.

But how does he know how to swing dance? It's because he took ballroom dancing lessons with his ex girlfriend. If he hadn't had a steady girlfriend he never would have known how to swing dance, he learned it because he was in a LTR.

yea man aint nuthin wrong bout bein happy n havin fun n an ltr. men with skills r the one who cann keep the woman know wut im sayin?

Most people have been brainwashed into believing that their lives are "empty" without a LTR... which is utter nonsense (and has already been said on this thread).

Some LTRs are good and some are bad. Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. When I sh!t on LTRs.. my main objective is the lower their importance in the eyes of men.

Lets be honest.. if the ONLY way for you to be happy in this world/life is to be in a LTR with a woman and your life is "empty" without one.. well.. that's pathetic.

There is more to life than women. Women are not oxygen. And once you craft a life that doesn't revolved around making women priority #1.. you will find you are happier AND have more power in your relationships with women.

Wanting women is fine. NEEDING women is pathetic. Therefore, anyone who "NEEDS" a LTR to be happy or "whole" is pathetic.

:yawn:

more beta anger cummin from playher man the beta troll who hates to see n e men in ltr's. n e word of ltr puts this beta n an angry rage lol

 

[Scaramouche]

Dear Zecko,
So nice to know you read my posts....But as for Scarra embracing Bachelorhood,it was really forced upon him...I was quite happy in the what I thought were two different LTR's in the most permanent form called marriage...I am very happy with a full on LTR I have had for 8 years...It still has a lot of Magic in it,because I never outwear my Welcome...Familiarity breeds contempt.. another LTR though she is seen less frequently has been going for 11 Years...Another Lady I have been seeing for four years she is house bound looking after a retarded Kid...Yet another affair has been cruising along for 2 years she has a husband with Altzheimers...There is nothing cheap or tawdry about any of these interests...I sometimes see them as a Vocation a calling even LOL

 

[G_Govan]

I've seen men in LTRs who claim they're happy and I find the crap they deal with to be quite off-putting. Men don't generally like to talk about how messed up their relationships are because they don't want to expose what they might consider a chink in their armor. Similar to how every man out there will tell you he makes his girl c-m 50x a day. There's a lot of ego involved.

LTRs are necessitous like most relationships. You WILL be compromising on certain things. It could be:

1.) Settling with someone who is less attractive than you'd prefer.

2.) Having to care for someone who has ongoing medical issues.

3.) Dealing with whatever baggage came with a person prior to being with you.

4.) Limiting your options with other women to show commitment while not knowing if this is being honestly reciprocated, and lets face it, women often win this game in spades.

There are many more downsides that others have mentioned. I'm not saying you should never enter an LTR but I fully understand those that stay away from them. LTRs are not kind to men in feminized countries.

*Zekko I think your age plays a large role in your perception as well.

My father told me honestly he married my mother out of loneliness. You can imagine how that turned out for us kids...

 

[SteR]

My father told me honestly he married my mother out of loneliness. You can imagine how that turned out for us kids...

Ouch. That's honestly one of my biggest fears. I wonder how often it actually occurs? I think it's probably quite common.. but people may not admit to it.

Just out of interest, how did their relationship look from your perspective as a kid?

 

[zekko]

How do y'all define an LTR? 6mo, 12mo? Living together or not living together?

I tend to think that most "steady girlfriend" situations qualify as an LTR, it's not so much about the length of time exactly. But I think usually less serious relationships will weed themselves out by the 6 month mark. So I have a hard time thinking of anything 6 months or less as long term.

Some guys choose to just not take any risk; they refuse to go into an LTR or commit to any one girl for fear of failure, heartbreak, losing money, etc. Ultimately I think that is a coward's play, because by choosing to avoid all risk you never really get to to live

Yeah, I've always thought that whole "protect your heart at all costs" philosophy to be a little cowardly. When you're playing football, you can't worry about getting injured all the time.

And she has to do the same for it to work

And there's one of the big downsides of an LTR. You can do everything right, but if she doesn't put in the work it can still all come crashing down. And that is completely out of your control. And she'll probably blame it all on you anyway, lol.

I've seen men in LTRs who claim they're happy and I find the crap they deal with to be quite off-putting.

I don't think that is inherent in LTRs though. A lot of guys are chumps out there. If you don't put up with crap, you shouldn't have to deal with it. Of course, that also means you can't go walking around behaving like a spoiled brat kid yourself. I've always said that you have to role model appropriate behavior - the man is the leader.

 

[G_Govan]

Ouch. That's honestly one of my biggest fears. I wonder how often it actually occurs? I think it's probably quite common.. but people may not admit to it.

Just out of interest, how did their relationship look from your perspective as a kid?

Father said it was great the first 3 years, then nose-dived. The most I remember was frequent, intense arguing and there were some physical altercations I didn't witness, but figured out much later in life.

I remember asking my father why he had cuts on the inside of his hands and told me they were paper cuts. That really threw me for a loop because I believed him and was quite paranoid about shuffling paper. I forgot about it for a very long time and it resurfaced randomly so I asked him about it again. He said my mother threatened him with a pair of scissors and he ended up cutting his hand when trying to take them from her.

I have more stories but you get the picture.

In a nutshell, it wasn't pretty.

I don't think that is inherent in LTRs though. A lot of guys are chumps out there. If you don't put up with crap, you shouldn't have to deal with it. Of course, that also means you can't go walking around behaving like a spoiled brat kid yourself. I've always said that you have to role model appropriate behavior - the man is the leader.

It's what I see often though. Seeing one of my best friends growing up being talked down to like a child is quite unnerving. I wanted to step in and say something but I know better. Most men I encounter walk on egg shells around their women.

It isn't because there's something inherently wrong with LTRs, but that in today's cultural climate (particularly westernized environments) men aren't equipped to deal with them properly. Have you noticed the number of advertisements that paint men as absolute idiots and buffoons needing women and even children to bail them out of their stupidity?

I didn't realize how prevalent it actually is. You won't find a single commercial where a woman is characterized in the same fashion. Even movies with a male lead, the man has to be calmed down and rationalized to by a woman because he's all flustered and unable to see the big picture. You know, pretty much the opposite of reality. A true gender role reversal.

 

[evan12]

I think LTRs get a raw deal around here, a bad reputation. Not only do posters not value them, they will tell you that you are beta if you are in one, or if you would like to be. I know most of this stuff is geared at the entry level and younger guys, who should be thinking more about spinning plates. But there seems to be little acknowledgement that at some point this can get old for many of us, and that once you sow your wild oats you may find yourself wanting something with a little more substance.

This is partly because sex is way overvalued here, and especially on the general forum. I don't agree with the idea that spinning plates prevents you from having oneitis. The last time I got hung up on a chick (I knew she was toxic so I never acted on it), I was seeing other women at the same time. It didn't make me want her any less. If you are spinning a lot of plates, often there is one you would rather be with than the others.

I have to say that when I think about what I have learned about women, I have learned far more about them while I was in LTRs than when I was spinning plates and screwing around. This makes sense, since the relationship is much deeper.

Look at the movie Swingers, which is often held up as a good movie to learn pickup lessons from. The Jon Favreau character does many things wrong. He is hung up on his ex girlfriend, which is a mistake. He gets a number from a girl and then dials her answering machine like eight straight times, repulsing her. But he redeems himself at the end when he picks up a smoking hot Heather Graham in a bar. He seals the deal by showing his skill at swing dancing with her, impressing everyone with the "twirly whirly" stuff.

But how does he know how to swing dance? It's because he took ballroom dancing lessons with his ex girlfriend. If he hadn't had a steady girlfriend he never would have known how to swing dance, he learned it because he was in a LTR.

I think men have also two strategies , one for long term and one for short term , so young men tend to only think how to get pvssy, so for them LTR is not in their agenda , also there is a broken men and some others who are not LTR material.
From the other side there are guys (me included ) who are looking for LTR, and we are the minority and the reason is the much you get older the less single men you will see , hence the less men supporting LTR you will find on these forums. And to be honest men who look for LTR and still single for no reason are minority, people always ask me why you are single and I dont have an answer either. and the much you get older the much you see guys in your age already have families and kids