LTR can't handle communication differences, is their hope?

[Scaramouche]

Dear Vic,
I once went to a Dance at a Nightclub in the Basement of a large Hotel,there was a beautiful blonde there,Swedish?certainly Nordic.....She was a great Dancer,but couldn't speak a word of the Queens English....To cut a long story short I ended up in Monicas Room at the Hotel and it was really Glorious...So an accomplished DJ can handle any Communication Problem.

 

[Atom Smasher]

Victor,

Personally I'm trying to learn to seem unaffected and not to raise my voice, but I'm seriously wondering if women can actually pick up on the subtlety of a man staying in "understated" mode. Sometimes women seem so thick and unable to reason that it seems that the only way to get through to them is by raising one's voice. But this could be a mistake on my part, and I'm going to experiment with a different tactic (if I'm able).

I just saw a video clip of Micky Rourke and this young wrestler Jericho on the Larry King show, and although the confrontation was of course staged, Micky seemed to own the youngster by acting very unaffected. In the Roarke said to the belligerent youngster, "I'm going to take the high road and wish him all the best", and then finally, "Have a good night, son". He seemed to own this kid by acting totally unaffected. He beat him with class.

Can that be done with a woman? I'm about to find out. Just tonight I finished a 1.5 hour phone argument with my current woman, and I found myself raising my voice. I don't mean yelling at all, but rather a strengthening and an increase in directeness and volume, along with more emotionality (indicating that I was fazed by the whole thing). I got her to see things my way, but man, what an effort. Two hours of my life that I'll never get back, LOL.

Next time I'm going to try to really be quiet and unaffected, and in fact speak so softly as to require her to lean in. If I notice anything of interest I'll report in.

 

[RMM]

The only problem with that is that she would walk away thinking to herself, "See, I KNEW I was right!" She will forever think that SHE dodged a bullet.

I fail to see the downside to this outcome. If she walks away thinking she dodged the bullet, there's a better chance she will just bugger off and not bother him again.

That is, if one is serious about dumping the witch if necessary.

 

[Atom Smasher]

Well, the point is, why perpetuate her self-delusion? Why lower yourself to name-calling and the very temporary gratification of telling her off?

Resorting to baser reactions tends to diminish us internally. In my opinion, being an actualized man means learning to thoughtfully respond instead of react. Blowing off steam at a woman just shows a lack of self-control and internal weakness. It demonstrates these qualities to her, and even worse, it demonstrates those qualities to you. It's a fail.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

She has given me her 'must list' which she says must be met in order for us to work.

NEXT.

I don't need to read any further. She controls the frame and is doing so by means of extortion. Your relationship is based on negotiated desire and compliance. Of course you're having vocal arguments - your amplifying frustration is rooted in her dictating the terms of her intimacy to you, and in your lack of any real available options you feel powerless.

Move on, spin more plates.

 

[Noodles]

Noodles:

I would love to video tape myself to see how it is. Here is my perception: I never say anything in my content that belittles her, insults her, calls her names. I don't swear, i am not yelling to where my face is red, etc.


My g/f is the type that doesn't have any issue with bringing up anything that has offended her. On certain things she will not compromise on, and this is one of them.

It doesn't sound like you've gone over the top then and indeed you seem receptive to suggestion. I would imagine she's never dealt with someone raising their voice and she finds this intimidating - however, I imagine you also find her quiet monotone style unsettling as well then?

I would imagine this leaves two possible situations:
1. You change the way you communicate - maybe you have to write emails or whatever to each other. This sounds slightly odd though doesn't it? And it's not exactly a long term solution.
2. You accept that you're happy with what you do. You accept that you can't change her. But you can change her for someone else.

If she's making that much of a big deal out of things and you aren't screaming at her...I'd walk away. Too much drama.

 

[Tazman]

She has given me her 'must list' which she says must be met in order for us to work.

God I wish I were in your shoes after she presented this list. I see these things as very easy to deal with, but the problem is I never get to this point because they know I'd laugh histerically at something like this. It's insulting really. She's not your employer nor are you an employee, you need to tear this list up in her face and tell her you're moving on.

 

[Die Hard]

Finally some good advice in this thread

 

[heroshima]

I think you hit the nail on the head. She doesn't accept this side of me and she has never been conditioned to have a man talk directly to her like i have done. I know this because I have seen her father and the way they communicate. I don't think he has ever raised his voice to her...hense why she is having a hard time dealing with raised voices when we argue.

I'm guessing there's something going on in her history that is causing her to react this way. I bet you've never seen her father raise his voice at her. I'm also willing to bet that he (or some other male authority figure) HAS and the outcome WASN'T GOOD.

There's also a really good chance that whoever did raise their voice to her has also hit her (or she's seen that happen to someone close to her, like her mother). That might explain why she is so afraid that you will use physical violence.

You don't need couples counseling. SHE needs counseling to understand why she is reacting so defensively.

Its normal to raise your voice when you get involved in a discussion that you care about.

 

[VictorK]

Gentlemen,

I want to start off by thanking each and everyone of you who have taken time out of your busy schedules to offer your insights and suggestions.
This situation has been a difficult one for me, and I want you to know that your feedback is giving me some clairty and perception of my situation.


Atom Smasher:

Best of luck on trying to to enhance the new communication style that you mentioned. I agree, that remaining calm and in control is ideal for any and all situations. However I don't believe its practical for 100% perfection everytime. I have gotten better in terms of holding myself back when I agrue with my g/f but even a raised voice disagreement once a month is too much for her. For her, she has communicated to me that she can't handle more then 1/2 'raised voice' arguements a year. And absolutely no shouting.

I am thinking that for me to get to a level where i can hone my 'unaffected communication style' will take quite some time (i have to retrain 30years of behaviour). Unfortunately, I don't have the confidence in her patience to wait for me to get there. She expects to see me reach that level within the next few months.

Let me know how you are progressing would be interested to see.

ALL:

Despite our differences, I have strong feelings for this woman as i thought we were going to move to the next level. She is a good person at heart and has made me happy in many other ways. I would not want to intentially hurt her, or cause her pain. If our relationship ends, I wouldn't have one final screaming match and blame her for everything. Ironically, i would take the high road.


Rollo, Die Hard & Tazman:

I agree I felt insulted that she gave me a list, but after i got over anger and thought that it was a blessing that i saw this side of her now, and not after we had gotten married. At the same time, if shes unhappy, she is letting me know what is it about me that is causing her to be unhappy. Now I have a line of sight to see what, if anything can be done to salvage things.


Noodles:

Over the years I have been able to gather some tidbits of information that may have helped shapped her psychi:

1. Her parents divorced at age 10. She has emotional scars from this. She has stated when she was young she would hear her parents fighting then she saw the divorce and the pain each parents went through. This tramatized her and she tied a connection to raising ones voice to arguements=fighting=divorce=ultimate pain

2. Her male figure in her life (father) spoiled her with attention from a divorced dad, never raised a hand or his voice to her. She has been conditioned for a man to treat her like her father has. I can show her love and attention, but its difficult for me to be monotone in emotional situations.


I have thought about the email communication strategy for when we fight, but like you i don't know if that is a long term solution.


heroshima

As far as she has told me she has never been hit by an ex or father. I have never thrown anything at her or made any motions to her that would indicate that i was about to strike her. When she told me she felt i could get physically violent, I was shocked because i didnt feel i had done anything to make her draw that conclusion. I pointed to my history and track record of never hitting a woman before and she responsed by saying "in an emotional situation anyone can lose it". I was taken aback by this because it showed me that A) she doesnt trust me completely B) she doesn't believe i can control myself.

To have this doubt and lack of trust in your partner is signs of a disaster no? It's like when one partner thinks the other is cheating, and its only a matter of time until the evidence comes out.

Her lake of faith in me was really hurtful and dissappointing

 

[SharinganUser]

I don't think your main problem is your differences in communication styles.

VictorK Said:
4. She wants to get engaged and keeps on bringing it up in our conversations. I keep on telling her I am not ready because she is my first LTR and half of our relationship she was away for school.

5. My girlfriend gets upset and we often argue about this.

VictorK's problems with this girl two years ago.


I think your problem is that haven't got any of these previous issues sorted out.

You even admit it in the previous thread that she "can be manipulative." And that was about two years ago. Obviously this behavior hasn't changed, mainly because you've given her no reason to change it. She even suckered you to go into couples counceling.

VictorK Said:

but she can be manipulative at times. She tells me that if she doesn't get married soon, by the time I am ready for marriage she will be in her early 30s, and then by the time she has kids (mid 30s), they're are lots of chances for complications to the babys health and her health...so she says if i cared for her, i wouldn't put her or our 'unborn' children at risk......after writing that...i admit...women logic is sometimes crazy.

And now you say that she's given you a list? Where is your SELF-RESPECT?

This woman has highjacked your dignity, your pride, and your sense of self-worth/respect. You need to give her an ultimatum. Don't talk to her about it. Don't discuss it, don't compramise on it. You do not negociate with terrorists.

 

[VictorK]

I don't think your main problem is your differences in communication styles.



VictorK's problems with this girl two years ago.


I think your problem is that haven't got any of these previous issues sorted out.

You even admit it in the previous thread that she "can be manipulative." And that was about two years ago. Obviously this behavior hasn't changed, mainly because you've given her no reason to change it. She even suckered you to go into couples counceling.



And now you say that she's given you a list? Where is your SELF-RESPECT?

This woman has highjacked your dignity, your pride, and your sense of self-worth/respect. You need to give her an ultimatum. Don't talk to her about it. Don't discuss it, don't compramise on it. You do not negociate with terrorists.

Yes it's the same girl...here is an update on that:

for the past 8 months we don't talk about getting engaged anymore....she said she has 'taken' a step back until i get my 'anger' under control. Anger to her is having a conversation where i raise my voice once a month.

The way things are going we are probably headed our seperate ways...but its still a difficult process to go through, especially when you are close to someone and never thought this would happen...

 

[Jamo]

You obviously have deep feelings for her so I'm sure you will not take the advice given here at hand and apply it immediately. I'm sure you will try just "one more time" for what it is worth. Go ahead, but reading all this from a third persons point of view, I would chuck her out of the window with her childish manipulative ultimatums in tow.

Bottom line is that you have to let her go. You have been at it for 2 years!! You are a marionette on strings for her. You dance to her tune and to her whims. You cannot, and should not want to tolerate this. Relationships are not supposed to be 90% pain.

I think this is a marvelous link:

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=176859

Good luck