Isn't it better to be aware of the difference between infatuation and love rather than have a heart filled with bitterness? I have a real problem with women and men who contribute to this crap. We run into these people who do things to hurt other people because they are bitter and angry about being hurt. Everytime a woman or man goes out with this lousy mind set they just create another member of the opposite sex who is going to go out and hurt more people. It's a viscious circle and the reason so many people here have been hurt. It's better to be a part of the solution than a part of the problem. Yes, you all should be cautious and only give your heart to a person who truly deserves it, and not tolerate any crap. But you should NOT be going out and behaving in the same exact way you complain about others behaving. It's hypocritical.
'Love' - and AFCs
- Thread starter WildThang
- Start date
penkitten
Master Don Juan
now everyone go download my fav mp3...outspoken "loveis for the weak"
I agree with Wyldfire. Just as no two men are alike, no two women are alike either. If you believe all the propaganda in the original post, then expect to lead a very lonely life, still here everyday asking for advice on how to pick up chicks (since you will have never had a meaningful loving relationship 'cause you believed all this junk and ended up pushing away any real potential love).
Persistant
Senior Don Juan
Have to agree with Wyldfire as well, you're confusing infatuation with love, as has already been stated. Just cause some chump falls hard for some girl that doesnt reciprocate the same feelings or actions and calls it love, does not make it so. I know cause I was that chump at one time and the experience opened my eyes up and after that I've had alot more control. Its really just a simple mistake made by a naive person who is estatic that they've finally found someone who they believe likes them and they let their mind run rampant and play tricks with them. Its usually an affliction of the younger people but some never learn to pace themselves through relationships. I know lotsa people like this, a friend of mine, she would jump from one boyfriend to the next always believing each one was "the one" and the one she was going to marry, only after dating them for a month or so. To harbor a bitterness over this is rather immature and to simply not learn from your past is just plain stupid.
Sir_Chancealot
Master Don Juan
Methinks Wyldfire is starting to show her true self
First, a quote. I wish I could properly attribut it, but I cannot.
Immature love (infatuation)= I love you because I NEED you.
Mature love = I need you because I LOVE you.
Yes, there is true love. No, it doesn't necessarily take all that much time, but it usually does.
Yes, women are heartless. Can you think of any phrase that is the male equivalent of "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned?"
That phrase was invented for a reason you know.
There are very few good women out there. They are damn rare. How do WOMEN try to control men? "Let me count the ways!" (I'm just a Shakespeare quoting MACHINE tonight
)
Gentlemen, see how many of these apply to you when you have been in an LTR/marriage/lived together:
1) She will try to tell you what to wear.
2) When she moves in, she will immediately rearrange your furniture.
3) She throws out perfectly good items because SHE doesn't like them.
4) Everything is always about HER feelings
5) Try, JUST TRY and keep the toilet seat up.
6) Emotional manipulation abounds.
7) Thinks THEY should lead the household.
Here's some for the dating guys:
1) Will always want to listen to HER music on the radio
2) Always wants to pick the restaurant/movie/place. If she doesn't do this, then the next one will apply
3) When asked what she would like to do, responds with "I don't know. You decide." then b*tches about your decision
4) Tries to get you to spend less time with your friends.
Here's some for ALL women
1) B*tch B*tch B*tch, Nag Nag Nag, B*tch B*tch B*tch! All in the guise of "helping" you to be a "better person". Hmmm, seemed you were plenty good enough to get together in the first place.
2) Plays the "If you loved me..." routine
There are more, but I could go on all night, so I will end it there.
I think that Wyldfire is just an older, smarter version of MsThang.
Out of all the posts on here, how many can you recall where the guys said "This girl is great, she never lies, she treats me with respect" etc., etc., etc.?
I can think of ONE. One out of thousands. In another thread, I told you about 4 women who actually preferred "nice guys". Four.
So, I think it IS safe to "generalize" about women.
The younger guys on here don't need to hear this crap about "all women aren't the same" because, YES THEY ARE. Sure, there are a FEW rare exceptions, but as the saying goes, they prove the rule.
Listen, how do you think all of us got here? You think it was by some accident? All of us either 1) Got d*cked around by women or 2) Had our hearts stomped on.
Yes, men will tell women anything they want to hear to get laid. Guess what? It works. Guess what again? All woman have to do to not get played like that is to not give it up. Pretty simple, right? Guess who that little tactic is used by all the time? Jerks. Guess who doesn't use the tactic? Nice guys. Want to go for the trifecta and guess who gets laid more?
We have to learn all these "rules" (which, as you get older and more experienced, becomes "guidelines") to get to know women. Know why? Because women are conniving, heartless, greedy, thankless b*tches.
I could go on and on. Ok, all of those here who have had a woman draw out a breakup raise your hands. Now, why did the woman draw it out? There could be a couple of reasons. She will say she didn't want to "hurt him", when what she really meant was that she didn't want him to be mad at her. Or she will hang on because she doesn't want to be alone. What do those two examples have in common? It's all about what SHE wants and/or feels.
Can you please explain to me how a woman sacrificies in a relationship, because I'm pretty clueless right now. What sacrificies does SHE have to make? What's with the silence? Could it be because SHE DOESN'T? That's right. She doesn't.
Women run on their emotions. When men find this out, they find out how easy it is to manipulate them (the woman's feelings, that is). Which, by the way, is not something men are prone to do. They do it as a last resort, because nothing else has worked. Once he learns how to manipulate a woman's feelings, she is putty in his hands. Case in point....Wyldfire.
She thinks her Across-The-Country-Would-Be-Boyfriend is a DJ on this site. Well, guess what Ms. "All women aren't the same"? You KNOW he is using these tactics on you, AND THEY ARE STILL WORKING!
But you aren't like other women, are you? Nope, women aren't the same.
First, a quote. I wish I could properly attribut it, but I cannot.
Immature love (infatuation)= I love you because I NEED you.
Mature love = I need you because I LOVE you.
Yes, there is true love. No, it doesn't necessarily take all that much time, but it usually does.
Yes, women are heartless. Can you think of any phrase that is the male equivalent of "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned?"
That phrase was invented for a reason you know.
There are very few good women out there. They are damn rare. How do WOMEN try to control men? "Let me count the ways!" (I'm just a Shakespeare quoting MACHINE tonight
Gentlemen, see how many of these apply to you when you have been in an LTR/marriage/lived together:
1) She will try to tell you what to wear.
2) When she moves in, she will immediately rearrange your furniture.
3) She throws out perfectly good items because SHE doesn't like them.
4) Everything is always about HER feelings
5) Try, JUST TRY and keep the toilet seat up.
6) Emotional manipulation abounds.
7) Thinks THEY should lead the household.
Here's some for the dating guys:
1) Will always want to listen to HER music on the radio
2) Always wants to pick the restaurant/movie/place. If she doesn't do this, then the next one will apply
3) When asked what she would like to do, responds with "I don't know. You decide." then b*tches about your decision
4) Tries to get you to spend less time with your friends.
Here's some for ALL women
1) B*tch B*tch B*tch, Nag Nag Nag, B*tch B*tch B*tch! All in the guise of "helping" you to be a "better person". Hmmm, seemed you were plenty good enough to get together in the first place.
2) Plays the "If you loved me..." routine
There are more, but I could go on all night, so I will end it there.
I think that Wyldfire is just an older, smarter version of MsThang.
Out of all the posts on here, how many can you recall where the guys said "This girl is great, she never lies, she treats me with respect" etc., etc., etc.?
I can think of ONE. One out of thousands. In another thread, I told you about 4 women who actually preferred "nice guys". Four.
So, I think it IS safe to "generalize" about women.
The younger guys on here don't need to hear this crap about "all women aren't the same" because, YES THEY ARE. Sure, there are a FEW rare exceptions, but as the saying goes, they prove the rule.
Listen, how do you think all of us got here? You think it was by some accident? All of us either 1) Got d*cked around by women or 2) Had our hearts stomped on.
Yes, men will tell women anything they want to hear to get laid. Guess what? It works. Guess what again? All woman have to do to not get played like that is to not give it up. Pretty simple, right? Guess who that little tactic is used by all the time? Jerks. Guess who doesn't use the tactic? Nice guys. Want to go for the trifecta and guess who gets laid more?
We have to learn all these "rules" (which, as you get older and more experienced, becomes "guidelines") to get to know women. Know why? Because women are conniving, heartless, greedy, thankless b*tches.
I could go on and on. Ok, all of those here who have had a woman draw out a breakup raise your hands. Now, why did the woman draw it out? There could be a couple of reasons. She will say she didn't want to "hurt him", when what she really meant was that she didn't want him to be mad at her. Or she will hang on because she doesn't want to be alone. What do those two examples have in common? It's all about what SHE wants and/or feels.
Can you please explain to me how a woman sacrificies in a relationship, because I'm pretty clueless right now. What sacrificies does SHE have to make? What's with the silence? Could it be because SHE DOESN'T? That's right. She doesn't.
Women run on their emotions. When men find this out, they find out how easy it is to manipulate them (the woman's feelings, that is). Which, by the way, is not something men are prone to do. They do it as a last resort, because nothing else has worked. Once he learns how to manipulate a woman's feelings, she is putty in his hands. Case in point....Wyldfire.
She thinks her Across-The-Country-Would-Be-Boyfriend is a DJ on this site. Well, guess what Ms. "All women aren't the same"? You KNOW he is using these tactics on you, AND THEY ARE STILL WORKING!
But you aren't like other women, are you? Nope, women aren't the same.
TheDude
Don Juan
It has nothing to do with love or infatuation. It has to do with CO-DEPENDENCY. A man or woman who latches on to another person whether the feeling is reciprocated or not and sheds his/her own identity, thinks the other makes them "complete" is doing so out of a weak sense of self.
The gushy, constant need for affirmation from the other has nothing to do with what the person feels for the object of his/her attention. It's an indication of what he/she doesn't feel for themselves.
Love takes an acceptance of not only those qualities in another person that makes them feel "complete", but also those qualities that make them feel "apart". It's about learning how to be intimate for the sake of intimacy not for the sake of self-gratification, and how to be alone for the sake of solitude not for the sake of loneliness.
That's why I like this board. I don't look at this as tips and instruction on how to pick up women, I look at it as how to become more comfortable with myself. Gain confidence in myself, become more aware of myself. Those qualities that we had as AFC's were not only barriers to attracting women, but also barriers to really knowing ourselves.
TheDude
philosophically abiding...
The gushy, constant need for affirmation from the other has nothing to do with what the person feels for the object of his/her attention. It's an indication of what he/she doesn't feel for themselves.
Love takes an acceptance of not only those qualities in another person that makes them feel "complete", but also those qualities that make them feel "apart". It's about learning how to be intimate for the sake of intimacy not for the sake of self-gratification, and how to be alone for the sake of solitude not for the sake of loneliness.
That's why I like this board. I don't look at this as tips and instruction on how to pick up women, I look at it as how to become more comfortable with myself. Gain confidence in myself, become more aware of myself. Those qualities that we had as AFC's were not only barriers to attracting women, but also barriers to really knowing ourselves.
TheDude
philosophically abiding...
Dr_Feelgood
Don Juan
Very insightful Sir_Chancealot. Sounds like we dated the same women. (Ha ha ha)
Even though, I've been saying the 2 women I'm interested in now, are different, in reality, they're probably not. I was starting to get infatuated and think that they were special. I was drifting back into AFC land. This post really opened my eyes. The only reason these girls are crazy about me, and I've been getting farther than I have in awhile, as far as relationships; is that I've become more of a Don Juan. (sorry about the long run on sentences)
In the past, I was a Don Juan, without even realizing it. Somehow, I lost my way for awhile. In the past, I must have done something right, because I had at least one LTR.
I agree with a lot of what you said though. There are very few women who truly like decent or "nice" guys. VERY FEW. And it's way too early in either of my relationships to know if these women are one of the few. Odds are that neither of them is. Eventually, I'll slip back into chump mode. She'll get bored, decide she's gotten what she wanted from me, and dump me. Almost every guy friend I have, is either divorced or getting divorced. In 90% of these cases, the guy wants the relationship to last. The wife either cheated, or decided she didn't want to be married anymore. I won't even mention some of the ludicrous reasons some of these women gave. It's a wonder I have any confidence to start a relationship at all. Women complain that men are commitment phobic. No wonder!
I read a retarded article in todays USA Today. It talked about how more women are wanting to date guys in uniform since Sept 11. (firemen, police, military) It talked about it like it was a fad to date these men. That women were only wanting to date them, because it was a new, trendy thing to do. One women's friends told her, after she was dating one of these guys for a month; that she couldn't break up with him yet, because they hadn't met him. How fickle are women these days? That's just sick!
I agree with Doc Love. 90% of the time she ends it. Women will say they want a great relationship with a guy, and they want it to last. Then why are they always ending it? A lot of times they end it without even giving a guy a fair chance. They don't even know the guy, and they dump him. I think it's really hard to take a womans' side on this matter. I'm not just saying that because I'm a man. The facts speak for themselves. The whole system is screwed up and doesn't give most guys a fighting chance from the start. That's why we have this site. I'm trying to fight it, but I'm becoming more and more of a jerk, the more I think about all of this.
Even though, I've been saying the 2 women I'm interested in now, are different, in reality, they're probably not. I was starting to get infatuated and think that they were special. I was drifting back into AFC land. This post really opened my eyes. The only reason these girls are crazy about me, and I've been getting farther than I have in awhile, as far as relationships; is that I've become more of a Don Juan. (sorry about the long run on sentences)
In the past, I was a Don Juan, without even realizing it. Somehow, I lost my way for awhile. In the past, I must have done something right, because I had at least one LTR.
I agree with a lot of what you said though. There are very few women who truly like decent or "nice" guys. VERY FEW. And it's way too early in either of my relationships to know if these women are one of the few. Odds are that neither of them is. Eventually, I'll slip back into chump mode. She'll get bored, decide she's gotten what she wanted from me, and dump me. Almost every guy friend I have, is either divorced or getting divorced. In 90% of these cases, the guy wants the relationship to last. The wife either cheated, or decided she didn't want to be married anymore. I won't even mention some of the ludicrous reasons some of these women gave. It's a wonder I have any confidence to start a relationship at all. Women complain that men are commitment phobic. No wonder!
I read a retarded article in todays USA Today. It talked about how more women are wanting to date guys in uniform since Sept 11. (firemen, police, military) It talked about it like it was a fad to date these men. That women were only wanting to date them, because it was a new, trendy thing to do. One women's friends told her, after she was dating one of these guys for a month; that she couldn't break up with him yet, because they hadn't met him. How fickle are women these days? That's just sick!
I agree with Doc Love. 90% of the time she ends it. Women will say they want a great relationship with a guy, and they want it to last. Then why are they always ending it? A lot of times they end it without even giving a guy a fair chance. They don't even know the guy, and they dump him. I think it's really hard to take a womans' side on this matter. I'm not just saying that because I'm a man. The facts speak for themselves. The whole system is screwed up and doesn't give most guys a fighting chance from the start. That's why we have this site. I'm trying to fight it, but I'm becoming more and more of a jerk, the more I think about all of this.
SoSuave.com
Administrator
Tips forum.
gettingthere
Don Juan
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2001
- Messages
- 114
- Reaction score
- 0
For what it's worth, most middle class Americans love to fantasize and romanticize about the 'simple life' of the working class. They are oddities we like to look at and marvel at from time to time, but we don't actually want to be like them or actually live with them. How many of those 'heros' can anyone name? probably less than 1.
[This message has been edited by gettingthere (edited 11-28-2001).]
Chance, the guy I think may be here doesn't use these tactics on me. He calls less frequently because of a screwy situation, not because of any "rule". This guy respects me and knows full well that I will always be there for him no matter what and that he doesn't have to play foolish games to get that from me.
It's not the guy's actions towards me that leads me to believe he is here.
It's your right to think that all women are the same (except for YOUR relatives and closet friends, ironically). I still think you are bitter, too.
It's not the guy's actions towards me that leads me to believe he is here.
It's your right to think that all women are the same (except for YOUR relatives and closet friends, ironically). I still think you are bitter, too.
Chance, the guy I think may be here doesn't use these tactics on me. He calls less frequently because of a screwy situation, not because of any "rule". This guy respects me and knows full well that I will always be there for him no matter what and that he doesn't have to play foolish games to get that from me.
It's not the guy's actions towards me that leads me to believe he is here.
It's your right to think that all women are the same (except for YOUR relatives and closet friends, ironically). I still think you are bitter, too.
It's not the guy's actions towards me that leads me to believe he is here.
It's your right to think that all women are the same (except for YOUR relatives and closet friends, ironically). I still think you are bitter, too.
Jake Steed
Master Don Juan
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2001
- Messages
- 865
- Reaction score
- 0
Maybe Chance is bitter. Maybe not.
But if he gets laid more and played less by following "rules" based on generalizations of women, then why the hell would he NOT follow those rules?
The result is all that matters. 99% of DJ tactics work. 0% of nice-guy tactics work. You can't argue with REALITY.
Jake
But if he gets laid more and played less by following "rules" based on generalizations of women, then why the hell would he NOT follow those rules?
The result is all that matters. 99% of DJ tactics work. 0% of nice-guy tactics work. You can't argue with REALITY.
Jake
Don Phenom
Senior Don Juan
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2001
- Messages
- 462
- Reaction score
- 0
WildThing, you've got something here
HOWEVER, one thing you have to learn if you want to be a True Don, is that all women ARE unique. What you posted will help AFCs become jerks, but it won't help them become Dons. And believe me man. A True Don will ALWAYS be able to get a girl who's attached to a Jerk, with almost no effort.
AFCs see women as:
special idividuals that need to be worshipped.
That right there, is some good bull s**t. NO WOMAN should be worshipped, but all should be respected.
As a Don, you'll see women are ALOT simpler than a AFC thinks. But going the route WildThing is suggesting will NOT help you understand women.
LISTEN UP GUYS- Believe me, you will get some girls using that advice, but if you find any that are really worth your time. When she catches a Dons eye, poof, with hesitation she's gone. THEN WHAT, your ass is back in the same stupid ass position you're in RIGHT NOW.
SO take the advice with a grain of salt. because what it will make you is not who or what you want to be. Especially if you're in the presents of a true Don, because believe me, You WILL Lose.
Finito
------------------
Don Phenom-Unphasable, you couldn't make me lose my cool if you set me on fire. My motto is simply "I will not lose."
[This message has been edited by Don Phenom (edited 11-28-2001).]
HOWEVER, one thing you have to learn if you want to be a True Don, is that all women ARE unique. What you posted will help AFCs become jerks, but it won't help them become Dons. And believe me man. A True Don will ALWAYS be able to get a girl who's attached to a Jerk, with almost no effort.
AFCs see women as:
special idividuals that need to be worshipped.
That right there, is some good bull s**t. NO WOMAN should be worshipped, but all should be respected.
As a Don, you'll see women are ALOT simpler than a AFC thinks. But going the route WildThing is suggesting will NOT help you understand women.
LISTEN UP GUYS- Believe me, you will get some girls using that advice, but if you find any that are really worth your time. When she catches a Dons eye, poof, with hesitation she's gone. THEN WHAT, your ass is back in the same stupid ass position you're in RIGHT NOW.
SO take the advice with a grain of salt. because what it will make you is not who or what you want to be. Especially if you're in the presents of a true Don, because believe me, You WILL Lose.
Finito
------------------
Don Phenom-Unphasable, you couldn't make me lose my cool if you set me on fire. My motto is simply "I will not lose."
[This message has been edited by Don Phenom (edited 11-28-2001).]
I couldn't care less what "rules" anyone plays by. The issue I have with what Chance is saying is that he thinks he knows more about who I am and what my relationships have been like than I do. And frankly, in that regard, he doesn't know his @ss from his elbow.
If you want to talk, talk to your friends. If you want a girl to like you, listen to her, ask questions, and act like you are on the edge of your seat.
Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.
lordclem*
Master Don Juan
mmmmmm wildthang and sir chance. posts are very insightful.but (deagleclaw puts a gun to my head) wyldfire has a point.
no i have not gone mad. now most women are ****ed up yes i totaly agree.giving newbies wildthangs post totaly agree.has a dj he will meet at least one woman that will stand out and show him that well that they are all not hoes!!
the self inprovement side of djing should help here too.it may be hard to leave to take in,but i am sure he well get it.and till he finds one of those good women,the others will make due(ie the best he can find)
this stands by what jake stead said.
"He calls less frequently because of a screwy situation, not because of any "rule"
oh i would say i told you so but i am sure you really would like to say so,but your pride wont let you.
"That right there, is some good bull s**t. NO WOMAN should be worshipped, but all should be respected."
don
"till she gives you reason to stop"
maybe if wildthang said that the current social state make women think that they can get away with ****ed up behavir and hoe activity endless and more that ever.many of them will do this some we have to treat them all the same till given reason to think/know that she is not.then move from there adding that most women will hoe up.
LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU GUYS THINK ABOUT THAT (wyldfire i am waiting)
wyldfire you said "knows full well that I will always be there for him no matter what and that he does not have to play FOOLISH games to get that"
how to you show him that.and please dont insult us by saying you told him(i would just want to kick you if you said that).what do you do.
---------------------------------------------
i really should take you up on calling ours stuff "foolish".but i want you to focus on the other thing i said
the devil
Okay clem, I'll do my best to answer your questions.
Firstly...the guy IS in a FUBAR situation right now that severely limits our ability to converse on the phone. I hate it and am pissed off about it because he is being a "Chump" in this situation. He knows that, I have told him that but he can't seem to extract himself from the mess.
For the record...I am a damn good woman who is both easy on the eyes and very easy to get along with. I don't play stupid @ss games. If you have read the Power of Feminine Grace article...I'm about as close to that as a woman can get. I can tell you right now that I wouldn't give men like Wildthang the time of day. He is obviously a bitter jerk with more resentments and emotional baggage than I want any part of. So frankly...men with that attitude are not going to even get close enough to the kind of woman they are looking for because they have such a miserable piss-poor attitude that they will only attract f*cked up women. I'm sure plenty will disagree with me, seeing as I have tits and all, but the fact is...I am right and those wiser fellas KNOW this. Why do you think they keep telling newbies not to try to become a jerk? They aren't just blowing air out of their arseholes, afterall.
I know there was a 3rd question, but for the life of me I can't recall what it was...so you will get that last answer in another post.
Firstly...the guy IS in a FUBAR situation right now that severely limits our ability to converse on the phone. I hate it and am pissed off about it because he is being a "Chump" in this situation. He knows that, I have told him that but he can't seem to extract himself from the mess.
For the record...I am a damn good woman who is both easy on the eyes and very easy to get along with. I don't play stupid @ss games. If you have read the Power of Feminine Grace article...I'm about as close to that as a woman can get. I can tell you right now that I wouldn't give men like Wildthang the time of day. He is obviously a bitter jerk with more resentments and emotional baggage than I want any part of. So frankly...men with that attitude are not going to even get close enough to the kind of woman they are looking for because they have such a miserable piss-poor attitude that they will only attract f*cked up women. I'm sure plenty will disagree with me, seeing as I have tits and all, but the fact is...I am right and those wiser fellas KNOW this. Why do you think they keep telling newbies not to try to become a jerk? They aren't just blowing air out of their arseholes, afterall.
I know there was a 3rd question, but for the life of me I can't recall what it was...so you will get that last answer in another post.
Why do you find it so funny? If ANY man were as blatantly disrespectful to me as you have been on this forum I would be repulsed by him. For all I know you could behave entirely differently to people under different circumstances, but I'm going on what I see right here. And you are being a total @ss.Originally posted by WildThang:
You have *no idea* how funny this is. Really and truly - you can't even begin to guess.
Never try to read a woman's mind. It is a scary place. Ignore her confusing signals and mixed messages. Assume she is interested in you and act accordingly.
Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.