Long-Term Relationshios are NOT natural

[Blusher]

They are not natural and science supports this. It is not natural for humans to be monogamous.

Who said LTR's had to be monogamous arrangements?

 

[Blusher]

Society needs betas to fall in line and be "good men". Being a good man doesn't make you alpha. Having morals doesn't make you alpha either. Power makes you alpha. Freedom makes you alpha.

If you define yourself by rules that don't benefit you.. you are beta.

Not having a moral compass doesn't make someone an "alpha" it's just makes one a sociopath.

 

[zekko]

So LTR's are not only natural but they are absolutely vital for the spread of the alpha gene in the human race. Without LTR's we probably wouldn't have survived climatic events such as the ice age and we'd be looking at a very different picture today. So yes, natural but not life long pair bonding.

Of course LTRs natural. You'd have to be a blogger with an agenda to claim they're not. Humans are naturally intelligent and adaptive - we use different mating strategies - that's why we're the dominant species on the planet! Humans don't have to stay in the jungle and swing from trees, we have too many skills and abilities.

Who said LTR's had to be monogamous arrangements?

And that's a good point as well. Many of the Biblical patriarchs were polygamists.

 

[zekko]

yes humans can adapt and even betas can find ways to attempt to undermine hypergamy and secure a mate for the long haul (marriage, religion) but GIVEN THE CHOICE, most men would naturally (as you yourself admitted several times) prefer to have multiple mates. so if we can agree that the biological default of men is to spread their seed without investing too much of themselves into one mate, we can argue that long term monogamous relationships are NOT natural

I disagree. GIVEN THE CHOICE, many men choose monogamous relationships, or to stay with the mother of their children to protect the nest, on their own, without societal pressures. This has happened repeatedly, naturally, in many different settings. I agree that LIFELONG monogamy is not natural for most.

Yes, many men spread their seed (that's natural for humans as well). And usually what happens is the male spreads his seed, but then becomes interested in one particular female, at least for a time. BOTH THINGS HAPPEN, and both things are common! That's why you have all this "oneitis" on here, and how hard so many try to "unplug" other men. You think all that would be happening if it wasn't happening naturally? Of course it's natural. It may not be "red pill" or "PUA" or "MGTOW", but it's most definitely occurring naturally.

People who claim that guys only get "infatuated", or "fall in love", or "get oneitis" because they've been brainwashed by Disney movies are trying to delude you.

 

[captain55]

Put a female rat in a cage with a male rat and he will have sex until he is physically exhausted and then stop all together, until a new female rat is put in the cage. Why would this be any different for women?

Sexual variety is adaptive, and that it evolved to prevent inbreeding and incest. When you get close to a woman you become familiar to her as a sibling and she loses sexual attraction. Most of us are still haunted by women who have left us because they simply refused to be monogamous anymore, accept it for what it is- nature and it won't bother you as much. chances are you aren't attracted to her anymore either, you just think you are, or know you won't do better.

 

[captain55]

They are not natural and science supports this. It is not natural for humans to be monogamous. Staying to raise a child has more to do with the child and less to do with the relationship between the male and female.

Humans do what they believe to be beneficial to them.. natural or not.

Humans have done many unnatural behaviors for thousands of years now. But they are still unnatural. Do you think building the pyramids was natural just because it was done by ancient humans? Because that seems to be the argument most of you provide... that just because it happened "long ago" it is automatically natural.

Alphas have never committed to women long-term as long as human history goes back. Only betas. Alphas have always f*cked multiple women. Always.

True but with society today you have guys with good genes clinging and getting heartbroken by women who aren't even in the same area code as them, in terms of attractiveness. I know guys who could be male models who are with average looking women, and get played by these average looking women. There is also evidence that dumber men are more likely to cheat.

 

[Poon King]

True but with society today you have guys with good genes clinging and getting heartbroken by women who aren't even in the same area code as them, in terms of attractiveness. I know guys who could be male models who are with average looking women, and get played by these average looking women. There is also evidence that dumber men are more likely to cheat.

Yeah? And there is evidence that smarter men are more likely to never commit in the first place. Most of the people who advanced humanity the most were people who avoided commitment to women:

Galileo Galilei, Nikola Tesla, Isaac Newton, Leonardo da Vinci, Michelangelo, Beethoven, all lifetime bachelors.

So there goes that argument. :crackup:

Only betas look for happiness from things OUTSIDE themselves (women). Anyone who wants to be a co-dependent beta is free to do it. Just don't call yourself "alpha" because you're not.

 

[captain55]

Yeah? And there is evidence that smarter men are more likely to never commit in the first place. Most of the people who advanced humanity the most were people who avoided commitment to women:

Galileo Galilei, Nikola Tesla, Isaac Newton, Leonardo da Vinci, Michelangelo, Beethoven, all lifetime bachelors.

So there goes that argument. :crackup:

Only betas look for happiness from things OUTSIDE themselves (women). Anyone who wants to be a co-dependent beta is free to do it. Just don't call yourself "alpha" because you're not.

Human beings are social animals. I agree remaining monogamous with a woman is beta as ****, but wanting companionship and something more than sex is not. I'm friends with a retired professional MLB player, the guy is worth millions and has banged Victoria secret models but still is unhappy because he has no wife/family and has had so few meaningful relationships due to the lifestyle of being a professional athlete and still talks about how he wishes he married his high school sweet heart. Guy can have any woman on the planet....so there goes your theory.

 

[Poon King]

Human beings are social animals. I agree remaining monogamous with a woman is beta as ****, but wanting companionship and something more than sex is not. I'm friends with a retired professional MLB player, the guy is worth millions and has banged Victoria secret models but still is unhappy because he has no wife/family and has had so few meaningful relationships due to the lifestyle of being a professional athlete and still talks about how he wishes he married his high school sweet heart. Guy can have any woman on the planet....so there goes your theory.

Since when are all MLB players alpha?

Read my other thread: http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=223145

Sure.. there is nothing wrong with relationships and companionship. But we are talking long-term right?

One MLB player is a pathetic co-dependent beta (who wants to get married).. and that makes your argument hold water? :crackup:

There are many men who don't "need" a wife or family to be happy. I listed several examples that trump your one bad example.

Nothing you say will ever make a co-dependent beta "alpha". Sorry.

 

[Firestar786]

The truth is p00n king, let the beta comments keep on coming because you know they're the ones who are gonna commit to women FULL TERM, and their wives/gf's are gonna F*ck alphas like us.

Males like us would not think twice of commiting to such b1tchs because we know the many advantages we have from fvcking about and living a bachelor life that married/girlfreind life cannot compare to.

It takes a deep gulp of the red pill to understand that- nothing you can read or hear can make you fully swallow the red pill only pure experience.

These particular brand of beta retards have to conform to society as it needs some of us to be that way.

Not everyone is made for the knee deep pu55y lifestyle

 

[Poon King]

The truth is p00n king, let the beta comments keep on coming because you know they're the ones who are gonna commit to women FULL TERM, and their wives/gf's are gonna F*ck alphas like us.

Males like us would not think twice of commiting to such b1tchs because we know the many advantages we have from fvcking about and living a bachelor life that married/girlfriend life cannot compare to.

It takes a deep gulp of the red pill to understand that- nothing you can read or hear can make you fully swallow the red pill only pure experience.

These particular brand of beta retards have to conform to society as it needs some of us to be that way.

Not everyone is made for the knee deep pu55y lifestyle

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Firestar786 again."

You're right and I'm starting to think I should just leave them be. Life as the beta sacrificial lamb is tough. These betas have to justify it in their minds somehow. But less betas committing means women have to step up their game. But these betas are too desperate to try it because they "need" a woman to cuddle with and take care of them when they have the flu.

What betas don't get is that women themselves never totally commit to men. Women f*ck alphas on the side any chance they get.. the hotter they are the more they cheat. I've had several wives and girlfriends offer themselves to me, its funny. As recently as NYE. Its well known that most cheating women never get caught.

So women don't commit and alphas don't commit. Its really only the betas that are dumb enough to commit. The entire world sh!ts on the beta male... women, children, alphas, gays, etc.

If you are a beta.. you are emotionally weaker than all alphas and all women. How does that feel? Because women don't give a sh!t about commitment. They see it as a one-sided thing. Beta commits to her and.. she commits to herself (and her children if she feels like it). :crackup:

Women are as free as alphas. They do whatever benefits them with no guilt and follow only the rules that benefit THEM. Betas are the only suckers in this world.

 

[Leif_Johnson]

Women f*ck alphas on the side any chance they get..

Alphas are not in abundance as you think. The majority of people are average
to below average looking. No below average looking woman will ever have sex with an alpha. She will be happy with the plumber she is with.

but in today's society it makes less and less sense to commit to a woman.

Why? Don't you have the value to keep her long term? Are you unable to replace one women for another? You guys are making it more difficult than it is making women more powerful than you.

 

[Poon King]

Alphas are not in abundance as you think. The majority of people are average to below average looking. No below average looking woman will ever have sex with an alpha. She will be happy with the plumber she is with.

So you believe only attractive women cheat?

Does it matter if she cheats with an alpha or a more attractive beta (than she has now)?

Why? Don't you have the value to keep her long term? Are you unable to replace one women for another? You guys are making it more difficult than it is making women more powerful than you.

Why should a man keep a woman long-term? Take kids out of the equation and list 5 reasons.

 

[zekko]

But perhaps Poon was thinking of marriage as an LTR and thus saying it was unnatural?

This is why I am saying that before you two get into an argument, it is best to define what is meant by LTR.

I can certainly understand the argument that marriage is not natural, but if an LTR is defined as say five years then that could be argued as natural so that the children can survive. Additionally, another great point was made about LTR's do not necessary mean monogamous.

Ultimately the message Poon is trying to convey is to just not commit. We may disagree on how he got there, but in today's society it makes less and less sense to commit to a woman.

If he meant marriage was unnatural then he should say that. But that isn't what he said. If he wants to say it's best not to commit to a woman, I have no problem with that. If he wants to say relationships are just for betas, I won't even quibble with that (I may not necessarily agree, but I would let it pass).

But if you say "LTRs are unnatural", I'm going to call you out on it because that's obviously not correct, it makes the manosphere look stupid. That's like saying "The earth is flat. Here's my advice on women".

 

[Poon King]

But the statement that LTRs are unnatural is true from the perspective that LTR's to someone means marriage, or more than 20 years together, or more than 4 years together.

My point is that you are pushing back in the same manner in which Poon made a mistake, but not defining LTR to begin with.

You are speaking past eachother because of a simple definition issue. You two may actually agree 90% if you both agreed anything longer than 5 years is an LTR.

Danger.. as usual you are correct. But zekko doesn't like to read so he missed all the parts of the thread where I clarity what I mean by LTR.

 

[captain55]

The truth is p00n king, let the beta comments keep on coming because you know they're the ones who are gonna commit to women FULL TERM, and their wives/gf's are gonna F*ck alphas like us.

Males like us would not think twice of commiting to such b1tchs because we know the many advantages we have from fvcking about and living a bachelor life that married/girlfreind life cannot compare to.

It takes a deep gulp of the red pill to understand that- nothing you can read or hear can make you fully swallow the red pill only pure experience.

These particular brand of beta retards have to conform to society as it needs some of us to be that way.

Not everyone is made for the knee deep pu55y lifestyle

I don't know what fairy tale world you and some guys are living are living in but in the REAL world, You can not treat some 9/10 like ****, play games with her ass, and expect to keep her around unless your one of the top guys yourself. the most beautiful women date down for a reason and that's to avoid the bull**** the top players come with, to avoid being cheated on etc. IF an average guy (and most guys on this forum are average I imagine) did the things many on this forum suggest they would be laughed out of the ballpark by a truly beautiful woman.

As for the quote I bolded, again only the top 5-10% of dudes can pull quality tail all the time being single unless you have a lot of time on your hands. . An average single guy should be trying to get a girlfriend, it's the best way to increase status.

 

[Poon King]

I don't know what fairy tale world you and some guys are living are living in but in the REAL world, You can not treat some 9/10 like ****, play games with her ass, and expect to keep her around unless your one of the top guys yourself. the most beautiful women date down for a reason and that's to avoid the bull**** the top players come with, to avoid being cheated on etc. IF an average guy (and most guys on this forum are average I imagine) did the things many on this forum suggest they would be laughed out of the ballpark by a truly beautiful woman.

As for the quote I bolded, again only the top 5-10% of dudes can pull quality tail all the time being single unless you have a lot of time on your hands. . An average single guy should be trying to get a girlfriend, it's the best way to increase status.

Take away the requirement that every woman you f*ck be a 9/10 (which is supermodel, movie star, celebrity hot) and your argument totally falls apart.

I don't think most men here have ever dated or f*cked a 10. And to be honest.. I would rather f*ck 7/8's and be in control (alpha) than commit to a 10 and be her b!tch (beta).

 

[PeasantPlayer]

Why do people assume movie stars are 9's? Most celebrities are ugly to average looking and look no better on average then normal people. I seen women who are not celebrities who look better them Halle Berry, Scarlett, Kim Kardashian ETC, so stop these non sense. And most models are ugly and look starved and anemic

 

[zekko]

I have enough value to keep my woman interested in me despite my saying no to her wanting to get married (note my definition of LTR is marriage).

It does take a certain amount of value to keep a woman when she knows you will not marry you. Women grow up expecting to have children and get married (not necessarily in that order these days). So she has to think more highly of you than the idea of getting married, no small task! My girlfriend would love to get married to me, but she knows I won't. She has to value me a great deal in order to accept this arrangement.

I don't understand defining an LTR as marriage, however. Obviously, marriage is an LTR, but an LTR is not necessarily marriage. I would say almost any kind of steady girlfriend is a LTR.

Oh, and Danger. Don't every take sides with anyone against the family again.