Long hair or short?

[God_of_getting_layed]

GOGL, although I agree that generally you have to live a certain lifestyle to be able to pull off long hair and short is generally better, your arguments are pretty retarded, I gotta say.

and I gotta say that you have the brain of a retard if you disagree with my arguments. all truth and logic baby.

you long haired queers love to throw out anecdoatal cases that support long hair being good, but for everyone of those cases, theres a million that contridict them. Besides, your talking about celebrities, and only women who are okay with long hair like them. for your information, these women are a minority. Women liked Orlando bloom better in black hawk down than lord of the rings for your info,hhmmmm, I wonder why.

I have explained WHY long hair is feminine, I dont need to explain why a feminine trait is bad. I also explained why no lifestyle or masculine extra traits will neutralize long hair.

Last but not least, empirical evidence proves long hair is ugly. Can you say the millions of surveys that have been done on the subject?

After all, what kind of evidence/logic have you guys braught forward that suggest long hair can be good? none. No logic that makes any sense, no empirical evidence. just a bunch of crap and anecdotal examples.

 

[doctoroxygen]

Your persistent claims of your use of "empirical evidence" are interesting in light of your failure to produce even one citation.

Raj Singh, a researcher into cultural norms at Valparaiso University, writes:

"With no claim to a rational justification, we largely demand that adult males present with bare faces and clipped cranial hair if they are to be presumed good, productive members of society. Yet scholarly studies demonstrate observers typically make many, significantly positive attributions, both of character and life mastery, to the male who "wears" (i.e., does not artificially remove) facial hair or long cranial hair...

A man's reasons for abstention from hair cutting practices all relate to his assertion, intended consciously or subconsciously, that he is not the servant of other men.
When people in positions of (non-religious) authority demand that a man cut his hair or shave his face, their purpose is to require the clipped man to openly demonstrate his obedience and subservience to them" (Singh, 1997).

There's a citation for you. I tend to agree that short hair is a symbol of obedience and subservience to other men. But as GOGL would have us believe, obedience and subservience (BETA traits) are ultra-sexy to women. So by all means, keep your hair short, obedient/subservient men!

 

[God_of_getting_layed]

Your persistent claims of your use of "empirical evidence" are interesting in light of your failure to produce even one citation.

Raj Singh, a researcher into cultural norms at Valparaiso University, writes:

"With no claim to a rational justification, we largely demand that adult males present with bare faces and clipped cranial hair if they are to be presumed good, productive members of society. Yet scholarly studies demonstrate observers typically make many, significantly positive attributions, both of character and life mastery, to the male who "wears" (i.e., does not artificially remove) facial hair or long cranial hair...

A man's reasons for abstention from hair cutting practices all relate to his assertion, intended consciously or subconsciously, that he is not the servant of other men.
When people in positions of (non-religious) authority demand that a man cut his hair or shave his face, their purpose is to require the clipped man to openly demonstrate his obedience and subservience to them" (Singh, 1997).

There's a citation for you. I tend to agree that short hair is a symbol of obedience and subservience to other men. But as GOGL would have us believe, obedience and subservience (BETA traits) are ultra-sexy to women. So by all means, keep your hair short, obedient/subservient men!

bwahhaaa, your source really proved me wrong. :crackup:

you gave a source of some jackass talking about his his beleif about how cutting hair is a sign of obedient men, ooooooh. This guy's statement isnt anyless or more credible of a source then my own posts. lol, why dont you cite me huh? him being a researcher dont mean shieeeeet. hell, Im a researcher too, Atleast my posts actually make sense (ie traits become feminine/masculine due to their gender association). This jackass talking about short hair=obedience is bull****. for future reference, dont post garbage please.

What matters is if the source makes sense, not if the source is by some jackass with some credible title. your source didnt make sense, nor does it prove anytihng about long hair being attractive. try again.

Try posting a source where a survey has actually been done on female subjects asking what they think of guys with fabio hair. This has already been done a million times. Im shocked that people dont beleive me about it let alone their conclusions (long hair=ugly). Im shocked that people are actually taking the effort to ask me to cite these surveys.

 

[God_of_getting_layed]

what is really rediculous about this thread is that the long haired queers still keep trying to argue that long hair is/can be attractive. All I can say is we got a bunch of faggots who are in denial. yeah, keep fighitng it, yes fight it, fight the truth!

THey keep sticking to the only weak defense that they have: "you just gotta be manly to wear long hair, then its actually hot". or they say "as long as your a good looking guy in general, you can wear long hair."

Well, the first one has already been proven false. It follows the logic that masculine traits can cancel out any undesired feminity. Already been proven flase by counter example that we men can all agree with: wearing alot of make up and dresses feminine will not change our perception of a woman's shaved head. Despite the girly sh1t, we still perceive her shaved head as masculine. Extended to men, a goatee, muscles, masculine clothes will not take away any feminity from his girl long hair.

The second arguement is as if it never existed. the fact is, 99% of men who sport girl long hair are ugly as fvck. THey all look like crack heads and are usually into metalhead sh1t if not geek/nerd sh1t. definitely not the beautiful people. Its as if long hair and the metal life style just attracts ugly people. So the point is, it doesnt matter if that argument were right (which its not anyway), even if you could get away with long hair if your a generally good looking guy, it dont mean jack shieet to these long hair queers, becuase 99% of them are ugly and are sh!t outa luck in making long hair work for them, so then whats the point of even try to argue for long hair. your ugly, you might as well give up now, and cut your hair if you care anything about being good looking (but given that you chose the long hair route to begin with, I couldnt imagine why you would care about being good looking...wait a minute, no wonder long hair and metal sh1t attracts ugly people like flies to sh1t).

Archaxis claims hes a fairly good looking guy and so has long hair working for him. Bullshyte. theres like a 1% chance that hes good looking, and I dont think anyone is feeling lucky today about him being that 1% good looking type. I mean, even if you could get long hair to work for you by being generally good looking.

Others claim the same thing as archaxis. 99% of the guys that are arguing for long hair in this thread are ugly as fvck. I aint gotta see your pic to know this, the statistics tell me all I need to know about what you look like.

Another argument I hear is that you "gotta live the lifestyle to make it work". You guys got that ass-backwards, its more like the woman has to be living a certain life style to be okay with your long hair. We all know that only a minority of women are okay with long hair, most women hate it. All you long hair queers who have even gotten any pvssy have only scored with these minority types, let me guess, these women are in the metalhead lifestyle too right? yeah, Im right. None of yall are scoring those hot barbie doll looking preppy types, lol. THe metal chicks are not your typical woman. again, surveys empirical evidence prove this. it aint equally likely that a woman will have a preference for short hair and hate long hair. its more like this: 90% hate long hair, 10% are okay with it/like it.

Oh, and then you guys try to point to your selectively chosen anecdotal cases that are supposed to support long hair being attractive. You point to orlando bloom, Depp and brad pitt etc. Before I comment on this, Id just like to say these cases where seleceted with strong bias to favor the long haired queer's case, they in no way reflect reality. Truth is, for everyone of these examples, theres a million long haired guys who contridict it.

Okay, now Im gonna comment on it. 1st of all, Not every girl even thinks brad pitt, orlando bloom, or what have you is even good looking to begin with, long haired or short. So that leaves us with only a proportion of the female population even liking brad pitt, bloom. Okay, not lets look at only the cases of when Pitt/Bloom/etc. has his hair long, this proportion gets even smaller. Basically, only a minority of women even like orlando bloom with his hair long. alot of women say he's "too pretty" with his long hair and dont think its hot. Bascially, what we end up with is a proportion that just happens to be the same as the proportion found in the surveys and polls of the women who are okay with long hair.hmmmm, a coincidence? I think not.

The same women who are okay with long hair(who are a minority) are the same ones who think those celebs are hot with their long hair. Do you really tihnk celebs are special or something? If a woman hates long hair on men, she will hate even celebs including brad pitt with long hair. no good looking celeb will change this in her eyes. You show me a woman that thinks johnny depp looks good with his long hair, and Ill show you that she is one of those minority types that are okay/like long hair. THis sort of throws a wrench in the long haired ****suckers argument.

 

[Nighthawk]

This guy needs help.

 

[seanchai]

Man, fvck science. Your intuition's gonna tell you everything you need to know in this life. Good luck dude.

 

[skip2mylou781]

ummmmm no. Just look at Orlando Bloom as an example. His popularity soared when he got long hair. Look at Johnny Depp, he can have long hair without skipping a beat; pirates, blow are both the movies that the women I know have thought he looked the sexiest in. Look at Brad pitts famous roles. Legends of the Fall I think its called is the movie that was out when he topped the sexiest man alive list. Women loved him in Troy and Interview with a vampire. Look at all the models now with hair down to their shoulders.

Will some people look better with short hair? Yes. Long hair? Yes. I've heard an equal amount of women that like long hair as short hair.

Ever seen the movie Unfaithful? The guy she's cheating with has long hair. I know it's a movie but I see it mirrored in real life where women love the foreign guy with the long hair.

Hair is marker of fertility. Why wouldn't a woman want someone that isn't sterile?

But the bottom line is Who the **** cares what the woman thinks? If you try and live your life by womens standards you'll never be happy.

please dont use celebrity examples seriously now, celebrities are hot due to being famous for the most part, and i could find u 100 people (both men and women) in a mall in 1 hour that look better than most celebrities

its the fame that exxagerrates peoples looks.........u show orlando bloom or johny depp to someone who has NO idea who they are, and they wont be thought of as so hot

 

[Warboss Alex]

different strokes for different folks.

you have to find which style you look best and feel most comfortable in.

for me it's definitely short, almost army style. I don't have much of a choice because I may well be thinning on top .. lol.

 

[Bvbidd]

yo god, it's not even worth the arguement man.

Logic does not beat people's feelings, and as long as there are posters with long hair they will never agree with you.

Your posts are 100% correct though.

 

[wootapotky]

please dont use celebrity examples seriously now, celebrities are hot due to being famous for the most part, and i could find u 100 people (both men and women) in a mall in 1 hour that look better than most celebrities

its the fame that exxagerrates peoples looks.........u show orlando bloom or johny depp to someone who has NO idea who they are, and they wont be thought of as so hot

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Excuse me. I won't waste my time arguing with someone that has no idea of what makes people attractive.

Edit: sorry. you said thought of as so hot. Maybe one or two women out 100 wont think those two are as hot as if they were famous but I guarantee you they could still get any woman they wanted even if they weren't famous.

By the way GOGL I do not have long hair nor am I into the metal scene. So sorry to disappoint. Am I suddenly not ugly now. Or am I still ugly because I don't think long hair in and of itself doesn't make men ugly or unattractive.

 

[seanchai]

This thread is epic.

 

[wootapotky]

Okay, I did some research on this. Searched the web looking through some forums on discussions about whether women liked men with long hair or short.
Here are my results (on preferences):

Long: 34%
Short: 43%
Medium: 5.8%
Doesn't matter: 8.7%
Depends (with leaning towards long): 1.6%
Depends (with leaning towards short): 3%
Depends (specific styles for either short or long): 2.8%

Total of 427 people (I only counted the women's votes)

with three other votes that I put under depends for the last site I visited and I can't remember which category to put them under (included in the 427).

Sites I visited:

http://www.answerbag.com/q_view.php/82944
http://www.discovervancouver.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9617
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061105233825AApEKCY
http://forums.plentyoffish.com/datingPosts1846167.aspx
http://www.bestandworst.com/v/91315.htm
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=777582&pageNo=1

Now some thoughts on this. I saw a lot of women that said short hair for their preference saying men with "long hair" was a turn off. But I also saw a lot of women for long hair saying being bald is a turnoff as well. I equate super long hair to being bald. Women either hate it or love it. The medium category I put the women that specified hair from just past the ears to shoulder length. I'm sure a lot of the long votes would actually fall into this category. I also noticed a lot more women saying long hair was a sexual turn on when they said long hair compared to women saying short hair was a turn on.

Is this scientific? Probably not (although it meets the 400 person sample minimum which I believe means that it should be statistically pretty close). However, there could be sample biases.

Another observation, i saw a lot of ugly women on both sides of the fence. The relative lack of good looking men with long hair that Gogl said is most likely due to the much smaller amount of men with long hair. If it was reversed and the majority of men had long hair that was well kept and the minority had short hair, it would most likely be the same result.

The last link t-testosterone had a good discussion on this after you get through everyone posting the mullets.

 

[doctoroxygen]

Good work on collecting all that evidence. I'm suitably impressed that, unlike GOGL, you're willing to provide support for an argument.

That being said, two things spring to my mind. Firstly, with that data having been collected on the internet, there are some inherent traits in it that I believe prevent its generalization. For one, there's probably something about women on the internet who share their opinions on long hair that is different than the female population at large. For another thing, n=400 is a more than large enough sample size for generalizability, but only if the sample is random, which voluntary self-report is not. Still, it's a large amount of interesting info.

The other thing that I believe is most important about this is: Here on SoSuave.com, we understand that what women say they want and what they actually want are often totally different things. If we understand it to be true that when women say they want someone who treats them well, they ACTUALLY mean they want someone who is ****y and independent and busts their balls, then I don't believe it's too far to stretch that when women say they like short hair on men, they ACTUALLY mean they have no idea what they want.

 

[Anfz]

ok guys just curious in what category do these hairstyles come under

1)http://img400.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jl37fb3.jpg

2)http://img153.imageshack.us/my.php?image=alex08xc0.jpg

3)http://img490.imageshack.us/my.php?image=02za6.jpg

4)http://img163.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tf15uu2.jpg

5)http://img163.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nunopessoal28tw8.jpg

Are some of these more medium than long ?

 

[God_of_getting_layed]

Okay, I did some research on this. Searched the web looking through some forums on discussions about whether women liked men with long hair or short.
Here are my results (on preferences):

Long: 34%
Short: 43%
Medium: 5.8%
Doesn't matter: 8.7%
Depends (with leaning towards long): 1.6%
Depends (with leaning towards short): 3%
Depends (specific styles for either short or long): 2.8%

Total of 427 people (I only counted the women's votes)

with three other votes that I put under depends for the last site I visited and I can't remember which category to put them under (included in the 427).

Sites I visited:

http://www.answerbag.com/q_view.php/82944
http://www.discovervancouver.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9617
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061105233825AApEKCY
http://forums.plentyoffish.com/datingPosts1846167.aspx
http://www.bestandworst.com/v/91315.htm
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=777582&pageNo=1

Now some thoughts on this. I saw a lot of women that said short hair for their preference saying men with "long hair" was a turn off. But I also saw a lot of women for long hair saying being bald is a turnoff as well. I equate super long hair to being bald. Women either hate it or love it. The medium category I put the women that specified hair from just past the ears to shoulder length. I'm sure a lot of the long votes would actually fall into this category. I also noticed a lot more women saying long hair was a sexual turn on when they said long hair compared to women saying short hair was a turn on.

Is this scientific? Probably not (although it meets the 400 person sample minimum which I believe means that it should be statistically pretty close). However, there could be sample biases.

Another observation, i saw a lot of ugly women on both sides of the fence. The relative lack of good looking men with long hair that Gogl said is most likely due to the much smaller amount of men with long hair. If it was reversed and the majority of men had long hair that was well kept and the minority had short hair, it would most likely be the same result.

The last link t-testosterone had a good discussion on this after you get through everyone posting the mullets.

Okay, let me start off with: 34% + 43% + 5.8% + 8.7% + 1.6% + 3% + 2.8% does not equal 100%!!! it equals 98.9%, not exactly the same. It looks like you cant add or correctly calculate percentages, which makes me question your competence to even conduct a survey correctly.

Second problem with your survey, I looked over your survey in the forums you cited, and you were being very ambiguous in your survey. You didnt make it clear what "long hair" is. You should have used a crystal clear definition: long hair=long enough to put in a pony tail, or shoulder length and loinger etc. The popular shag look should be defined as medium, and should be made clear that it is considered mediumn not long, this should have been made clear, it fvkced your survey up and makes it as if it never happened. Im certain that to many women, the popular shag look we are seeing alot these days would be condsidered long by women. This is not the same as the girl long that metal fags wear, the girl long hair is what Im arguing is a huge turn off to most women. And by the way, the popular shag look is actually very attractive, lots of women think its sexy. Becuase of this, some of the votes for long hair were probably due to the women having the popular sexy shag look in mind, not the flamming gay fabio style that the metalhead queers sport. So this ambiguity you have in your survey in what it means for hair to be long is fvcking up your survey and making it crap. As far as Im concearned, that survey never happened. Try again.

A 3rd problem which you already pointed out, which Ill reiterate any way was that it was biased, self volunteers where the ones who voted, and was done only by message board chicks.

Okay, so You want a source from me? Heres one source that comes to mind: a style survey done by Co-ed magazine, issue #7 fall 2006. On page 119 theres a survey on "what women want men to wear", item #11 was about hair style:
11. I am most attracted to guys who have:
a. hair as long as mine[pony tails are hot] (3%)
b. a nice clean buzzcut (44%)
c.gel heavy hair, the more the better. (5%)
d. Surfer hair [a little long and messy] (48%)


I have no way of actually providing you with an online link to this source, becuase theres no online article of this magazine, but I hope someone on here has that issue and can confirm that this is an authentic source, and Im not making this up. This survey was done on 200+ women, from college campuses all around the nation, making it pretty random, also. The women were not volunteers, they were polled by the writers of the magazine, which obviously randomly approached the chicks, all the chick had to do was respond.

This survey done by Co-ed wildly differs from wootapotkey. And totally supports what Ive been saying. Notice that there was no ambiguity in the hairstyle ddescription, obviously a. is the metal head look, and d. is the popular shag look. (long hair that I talk of being a turn off is not the same as the shag look.) Cant say the same for wootapotkey's survey. Even though this is done on 200 women, even if its off a little bit, I dont see ***** long hair being prefered by more than 10% of the female population, I mean, even if the true percentage was 25% (giving the metal queer some slack in this argument), it would still be very hard for chance to give a 3% estimate for a true est=25% on a 200 sample survey. again, 10% is as high as I would say it could get assuming this survey was off by alot. Id say the 3% they gave is pretty accurate and agrees with my own personal experiences in hearing women's thoughts on the subject. even given 10% in the metal fag's favor, 10% is still a small minority, and is what IVe been saying all along, most women fvcking hate ***** long hair. But truly its probable really near the 3%.

Oh, and Maxim magazine also did a similar poll on the subject, came to the same conclusion, ***** long hair is not loved by the ladies. THe article was titled along the lines of "major turn offs to women". long hair was one of them. I cant find the source right now, but Ill look for it, there may be an online article for this one....Ill see if I can find it.

And here is my reply to your commen about the percentage of long haired guys being ugly. In no way did I mean I see fewer good looking guys with long hair than with short. What I meant was percentage wise, theres fewer good looking guys in the long haired community than the short. In otherwords, Id say only 10% of short haired guys are good looking, only 1% of long haired guys are good looking, this has nothing to do with the fact that long haired fags are minority. THe fact is, the fabio long haired look and metal **** attracts ugly people like **** attracts flies.

 

[God_of_getting_layed]

By the way GOGL I do not have long hair nor am I into the metal scene. So sorry to disappoint. Am I suddenly not ugly now. Or am I still ugly because I don't think long hair in and of itself doesn't make men ugly or unattractive.

If you have long hair, Your pretty much gueranteed ugly not matter what. If you have short hair or some non-fabio long hair style, then it depends on alot of other factors too, such as how attractive your face is, if you even style hair right, body, clothes, etc. etc.

 

[DogFashionDisco]

This is so ****ing stupid.


If you guys are gonna judge your hairstyles just because of what some e-pimp says, then maybe you should just cut off your balls, wrap them up, and mail them to him.


Who the **** cares if you have long hair or short. Sure, some girls may not like the way you look, other girls will love it. All of them are different. It depends on how they were raised/what they're exposed to (ie cheerleader chicks'll typically go for the short haired jocks, emo/rocker chicks probably'll go for the long haired hipsters). I myself have long curly hair. That's right, long CURLY hair, and I love it. And so do many other people (including preps, emos, hipster kids, jocks, basically any of the groups). I've even had a chick say that she'd fool around with me, just because she loves my hair that much (I'm actually serious, and she's not a slut either, HB 8.5). Do you think some generic short haired kid is gonna have that happen to him over his hair.


No. :rockon:

 

[wootapotky]

Okay, let me start off with: 34% + 43% + 5.8% + 8.7% + 1.6% + 3% + 2.8% does not equal 100%!!! it equals 98.9%, not exactly the same. It looks like you cant add or correctly calculate percentages, which makes me question your competence to even conduct a survey correctly.

Did you not see where I said that 3 votes were included in the total that I didn't put into any category. I didn't feel like redividing everything because I added up all the votes and then started dividing everything and then at the end realized I couldn't honestly put those three into any category. Also I rounded the the long and short categories.

Long: 33.9578%
Short: 43.3255%

So 34% + 43.3 + 5.8% + 8.7% + 1.6 + 3 + 2.8 + .7 = 99.9% Close fvcking enough.

And onto your second point I specified medium when I could and I even admitted that it most likely wasn't scientific. I don't know what you are argueing about. I admit that there is no way to tell exactly what constitutes long in every different response since most didn't specify. I put the numbers up to get numbers up there since no one else was providing any.

Yes I agree that most women don't find super long hair on a guy a turn-on. Shoulder length give or take a couple inches is what I consider "normal long" for guys. But what I take as surfer hair is about eye or ear length. But I'm thinking you take it to mean eye or ear length to shoulder length. In which case we kind of are arguing a similar point.

However I don't think that anyone should change their style for anyone but themself.

And just a small point. No woman I know finds Orlando Bloom better looking black hawk down hair style than pirates or kingdom of heaven style. Kingdom of Heaven is probably the only time he has actually acted and looked masculine.

 

[OzyBoy]

i'm gonna get my hair cut this weekend, its getting a bit messy.

 

[Archaxis]

you get more women with your hair down?

Yeah, no question... for as much as I've worn it up (much easier to cope with on the bike or in the roadster), I think I've only pulled intent from a babe once... maybe twice. Down, I get attention all the time.