Letting your girlfriend hang out with other men (orbiters) is a stupid thing to do

[zekko]

Also whats the point of dating monogamously if you dont plan on getting married and having kids?

I'm in a monogamous relationship and I don't plan on having kids or getting married. I find value in it, I find a depth there that I don't get otherwise. Different people choose to live their lives in different ways. You might as well say what's the point of having sex if you don't want kids, since the whole purpose of sex is reproduction, after all.

I know the boundary thing is different. And it does have a certain dominant/submissive ring to it. However, for the long term, by setting these boundaries, I feel you're actually setting yourself up to be cheated on.

I think the opposite is actually true. Because if she is going out with male friends and orbiters regularly, that makes it a heck of a lot easier to hide an affair, doesn't it? It also allows her to put herself into situations where she might run into temptation.

Setting boundaries will work, for the short term, the honeymoon phase, as you will. But eventually, once you two start getting comfortable with each other, here's a scenario that's going to happen: She's going to be out with one her girlfriends eating lunch and her friend's brother is going to stop by to say hi.

What is she supposed to do?

Your gf has now been put into a difficult situation. Can she hang out with her friend and her friend's brother? Or is that not allowed? What do you think her girlfriend is going to say?

What about when everyone from her office is getting a drink to celebrate something?

What's she supposed to say there? "Since there are guys there, my boyfriend won't allow me." Or, does she make up a lie so you don't sound like an insecure controlling a$$hole.

You're setting up a strawman here, because as far as I know, no one has suggested anything this rigid. No one is asking the girl to become a social pariah, she can do all the things normal people do. All she has to do is respect the relationship, that's what it really boils down to.

 

[Peaks&Valleys]

These first three quotes ran congruently, I just separated them for the sake of commenting.

Highly interested women will cut out other dudes on their own. My girlfriend did just that. She had no need for other men in her life except for me. I didn't even need to set a boundary. That was what she decided on her own.

^^^This right here, OP summed it up real nicely, thought it needed another look.

Sure you're not in this category zekko?

But for other women who don't think that way, will respect a boundary if the man she is highly interested in sets one from the beginning.

In the first quote, OP said that highly interested women will cut out other men on their own. On the second he said that another type of highly interested women will cut out men only if the man sets boundaries. Oh, gotcha, different types of women. NAWALT.

There is no need for her to be spending more or equal time with other men. But these betas will allow it to go on and think nothing will happen.

key word: betas. I could never imagine myself in an exclusive relationship where the woman spends more or equal time with other men. Well I guess there's the whole work issue of guys they have to work with, not sure how you guys handle those boundaries, or do you guys just make them quit their jobs?

Excellent post OP.

Narcissist. Two very important points.
You are not controlling women in your life so much as you are controlling FOR the wrong women in your life.
Women will disrespect ANY man if the man allows them to. Setting boundaries is how you prevent it. The point is, she doesn't even know what the definition of disrespect is, simply because so many AFC chumps are too afraid to hold their women to any rules.

rascal is exactly right.

Any man who fails to set boundaries has a scarcity mindset and is too afraid he will lose his sole source of intimacy.

rascal didn't set boundaries with his girlfriend though.

Beta orbiters can fvck your girlfriend very easily when they have something she wants

Nah, don't think so. But maybe if you're dating an absolute worthless wh0re, then maybe.

In my College Psychology class, there was a dude who managed to steal a copy of the final. The class was very hard and the professor made the multiple choice tests extremely hard with A-E answers. The answers were paragraph long answers and you had to do all the reading, watch the films, plus read all the supplemental material to know what would be on the test.

So, the dude who stole the test was an orbiter of a chick in the class who was a solid 8. Some would call her a 9. He used that as leverage for having sex with her. If she had sex with him, he would give her the answers for entire final test. The orbiter wasn't a real good looking guy, but he used what he needed to score the lay. This chick had a boyfriend who was on the basketball team and she decided that her grade in the class (which meant not having to study for a hard final but to party over the weekend instead) was more important than her boyfriend.

She ended up fvcking the orbiter (which the dude got some video of that encounter) for the answers for the test that she didn't have to study for.

^case in point.

You're setting up a strawman here, because as far as I know, no one has suggested anything this rigid. No one is asking the girl to become a social pariah, she can do all the things normal people do. All she has to do is respect the relationship, that's what it really boils down to.

A highly interested woman, who respects the relationship, won't purposefully put herself in situations where there's a high chance that she will cheat. If she knows a guy wants to bang her, and she physically attracted to him, then she should not be going out with the guy. This is obvious, but if you have to set boundaries for her to not go out with this guy, then you are with the wrong woman.

Bottom line: If she knows you will leave her if she cheats, and she still cheats, then this is a low quality woman, and not for you. Boundaries may have kept her from cheating, for a while. But the longer you stay with her, the more opportunities down the road she is going to have. You can set all the boundaries you want, you can even make her quit her job and not leave the house.....but then you'd have to watch out for the mailman. You could tell her though, that she's not allowed to say hi to him. You'd also have to watch out for salesman, but I guess you could handle that one by simply telling her to not to answer the door all together. But then again there's online issues, chat rooms.....some guy could be interesting and witty and funny, they could exchange messages, next thing you know they're exchanging emails, pictures. Guess, for that one, you could just tell her she's not allowed to go online. When I was a telemarketer (way back in the day), I'd sometimes flirt with the women, part of the sales strategy, and it was fun. So, I guess you'd have to worry about telemarketers flirting with them, guess you could set that boundary by not allowing her to answer the phone. Daily errands are out of the question, because she's not allowed to leave the house. What about if she wants to get her nails done? You could allow that I guess, but just remind her that she can't stop anywhere else.

The whole point here is that, no matter what you set for "boundaries" there are always going to be opportunities. You can curtail them for a while, but eventually she's going to be in a situation where she has to make the decision on her own.

One day she may come to you and say: "this guy from work has two tickets to my favorite singer, he said his friend can't go anymore so he has an extra ticket and asked if I wanted to go."

That is when you say: "he wants you to come along because he wants to bang you."

Her: "no, we're just friends." (friends meaning some guy at work she talks to every once in a while)

You: "yeah, but he wants to bang you."

Her: *after hamster brain makes a few rotations* "oh, yeah, he probably does, I'll tell him I can't"

Guy at work was coming on to her, in that sly devilish way of his, however, there are no real rules, or boundaries, but there is trust. So she brings up this situation to you, you handle it by helping her figure out what is going on here. She makes the decision to turn him down. Crisis averted, and she has gained some priceless knowledge on handling these situations in the future.

Now, if boundaries were set. She probably wouldn't bring up that the guy asked her out. She would not want you to think she was violating any of these boundaries by talking to other guys. She would know the "rules" and not want you to think she was violating this by leading the guy on some how, so she wouldn't mention this to you, she would hide it. However, she would turn him down though, but on self-reasoning that she's turning him down because those are the rules. And in her mind, she would be thinking: "I can't go out with a friend of mine from work to see my favorite singer for free, because my boyfriend said I can't hang out with other guys"

In the no boundaries way, she's turning him down because she's making a decision (with some help and guidance from you in this case) that she's not going to put herself into that type of situation. A situation that she could have resented you for, is now a situation that has been brought to light for what it really is, and because of this, she will now be more on guard with this guy.

Last thoughts:
This site teaches that being an orbiter will not get you laid. However, this thread is saying differently. Why is that?

 

[zekko]

In the first quote, OP said that highly interested women will cut out other men on their own. On the second he said that another type of highly interested women will cut out men only if the man sets boundaries. Oh, gotcha, different types of women. NAWALT.

People can say NAWALT, but it's true, people have individual differences, whatever general tendencies there may be.

Anyway, I'm glad you brought this up, because I don't agree with the "A highly interested woman will not spend time with other men". I mean I'm sure that happens sometimes.

But the reason I don't agree with it is that women are brought up in the culture today to believe that they can have it all, and they can do whatever they want. The feminized society tells them that it is okay for them to hang out with male friends and that anyone who objects is an insecure, jealous, controlling monster. In fact, there are guys on this forum who believe this, after all they've heard it all their life.

Anyway, when I first was going out with my girlfriend she had some orbiters she hung out with. We had some discussion about it, and she acknowledged that she knew they wanted more from her, but that they weren't going to get it. To her it was a friendship. I don't blame her, she was conditioned that it was okay. Her former boyfriend let her hang out with her orbiters.

Regardless, that arrangement was not satisfactory to me. She was pressing for exclusivity, but I told her that I had no interest in having a girlfriend who hung around with male friends. So she got rid of them. That was 10 years ago, and that was the end of it. She knew what my requirements were, and she decided to meet them.

The whole point here is that, no matter what you set for "boundaries" there are always going to be opportunities. You can curtail them for a while, but eventually she's going to be in a situation where she has to make the decision on her own.

You have to set the boundary somewhere, even if it's only in your mind. For you maybe it's if she sleeps with some dude. For me if she goes out with a guy one on one. I just think it's only fair that she knows where the boundary is. How can she play the game if she doesn't know the rules? If the time comes when she resents me for it, then it's all over anyway. That's okay, 10 years is a pretty good run. But I don't think my boundaries are unreasonable, so I don't think she has reason to resent me.

Last thoughts:
This site teaches that being an orbiter will not get you laid. However, this thread is saying differently. Why is that?

You shouldn't take this site's advice as universal truths. They are more like general guidelines. Being an orbiter is not a very effective way to get laid. That doesn't mean it isn't possible. Past discussions on this topic have shown that. This site teaches you to stay out of the friendzone, but I've turned LJBF into sex. These principles are just guidelines and generalities - these are social issues we are dealing with, it's not like the laws of physics.

 

[TheException]

So Exception,

Your last two responses to me were full of name-calling and not answering my questions. It has now been FIVE times the questions below were asked and you still have not answered.


Is the sixth time asking the magic formula? Or will you continue to avoid it?

Might want to try seven...

 

[Trump]

Your thought here is stemming from the mindset that you are not in a position to implement boundaries and thus will lose your source of sex as a result.

What makes you have this mindset? Have you ever set boundaries and received that result?

Have you ever walked away from a woman when she was being disrespectful? If so, what happened after you did this?

Have you ever performed ANY kind of takeaway from a woman?


This is a major topic that this board needs to discuss more. Most of the comments I see here and otherwise on the subject of disrespect and boundaries has it's root in men not having the confidence to know that the woman will come back or that another one is just around the corner.

If men do not have the confidence in their ability to replace the girl, the root source is either in not knowing the value of what they provide, or they simply are not doing something right with women.

Now this site is filled with advice on game. But how many men here have ever taken a moment to figure out exactly what it is of value that women seek from him?

I've put boundaries on girls I'm not really attracted to (i.e lower value) than me. The ones who are hotter than me, they can kind of they do what they want. again my value to be seen with them and have sex with them is more important than any disrespect they give me. I outweigh the pros vs the cons, and in this day and age with feminism, entitlement, etc, etc, the pros always win.

Anyway I see your point, but I think setting boundaries its kind of like telling an employee "don't do this to damage my brand." Of course you can tell him, but they should know themselves.

 

[JoeMarron]

Sigh...the ground that this dead horse was laying on has been beaten to death.

Boundaries are first and foremost a screening technique. When a man gets into a relationship he's inviting the woman into his kingdom. A proper kingdom has rules, if the woman doesn't like them then she can get the fvck out. Everyone has expectations about how their significant other should behave in a relationship. It's simply good sense to spell those expectations out.

 

[zekko]

The purpose of this boundary is to.....

1.To select for women who value YOU over male attention.
2.To select for women who respect the relationship enough to not put themselves in constant questionable conditions (surrounding themselves with men who want to fvk them).
3.To set a higher threshold for red flag recognition (Much harder when she is already engaging in one-on-one frequently with other men).

Totally agree, you explained that very well.

my value to be seen with them and have sex with them is more important than any disrespect they give me.

Interesting.

Anyway I see your point, but I think setting boundaries its kind of like telling an employee "don't do this to damage my brand." Of course you can tell him, but they should know themselves.

Again, like Danger and Joe above said, boundaries are primarily a screening technique.

 

[TheException]

So why are you so terrified of answering them? You now constantly insult those who would place this boundary, yet you always run away when faced with the tough questions on how you handle it.

Im petrified actually.

Id try an 8th time....youve been desperate and needy to this point....might as well keep going.

 

[Peaks&Valleys]

If my gf were to go out with guys one on one that I would consider a threat, then she would not be my gf, for more reasons than one.

Some of you guys can understand this, some can't. There's many levels to this way of thinking.

Maybe that's just one way to do it. I just wouldn't be exclusive with a woman if I had to regulate what she did. If I did have to keep tabs on her, and moderate her behavior, then I wouldn't have chosen her.

 

[asa_don]

Because he didn't need to. She wasn't crossing the boundaries in the beginning. My statements are based on the presumption that said boundaries are already being crossed *before* the man commits.

Hence my point earlier to Narcissist that if he would dump a girl who started seeing men one-on-one, doesn't it make sense to not even commit to one who is still seeing men one-on-one?




Once again from the top:

A boundaries primary purpose is not to CONTROL women, It is meant to control FOR women who are more likely to cheat. You are coming at it from the aspect that it's primary purpose is to keep her from cheating.


The purpose of this boundary is to.....

1. To select for women who value YOU over male attention.
2. To select for women who respect the relationship enough to not put themselves in constant questionable conditions (surrounding themselves with men who want to fvk them).
3. To set a higher threshold for red flag recognition (Much harder when she is already engaging in one-on-one frequently with other men).

This is not rocket science and we have Exhibit A supporting this argument right here which only happened a month ago. This happens all of the time and we see it here constantly.

For this thread I linked above as Exhibit A, if there was a boundary set by the OP then all three of the list above would have been solved.





Look, if men here would dump a woman who suddenly started doing one-on-one with another man, why on earth would you commit to a woman in the first place if she was doing one-on-one time with other men? You wouldn't.

So the point is when such a woman pushes you for commitment, but at the same time has man friends like this, your response should always be....



It is that easy. Boundary set. Why is everyone so afraid of doing this?

great point, they have no balls and are afraid of losing her, that's why. guys who let their chick boss them around wont set any boundary.

 

[zekko]

great point, they have no balls and are afraid of losing her, that's why. guys who let their chick boss them around wont set any boundary.

I think some of these guys have bought into the PUA idea that when a girl sh!t tests you and tries to make you jealous, you are supposed to act all alpha and be nonreactive. That's solid advice, but the problem is that this applies to a girl you trying to pick up, not to a girl you are considering exclusivity with.

The other reason is that this generation has been raised to believe the feminist idea that if you object to women having their male friends, then you are jealous, insecure, controlling, and possessive. Those words are carefully chosen to shame men. What guy wants to be any of those things? But it's all just feminine BS designed to manipulate men into letting them have their cake and eat it too.

 

[Peterpack]

I've banged another guy's girl as an orbiter

She was out one night with her girlfriends, her bf was working away. We had a fun night as a big group (my mates and her friends). She asked me to give her a lift home and one thing lead to another (all initiated by her)

You want to keep guys with any game whatsoever as far away from your girl as possible.

 

[Peaks&Valleys]

Lets try a little scenario. What would you guys do?

You've been dating this girl for a month, and you like her, and it's starting to get serious, and she's been giving you signs that she really likes you as well. You're thinking you may want to go exclusive with this chick. You're talking to her on a Tuesday about the weekend. You ask her if she has any plans. Which would you rather have her come back with:

A) she's goind to a club with one of her single girlfriends

B) she's meeting a guy friend at a bar for some drinks

Next question: How would you respond if she made any of the above statements?

Me? I would simply say: okay.

Then, it would be up to her to change her plans for me. If she knew that I was free, and she still went ahead with above said plans, without even trying to fit me, or all out canceling plans with other people, then I would back off from my exclusivity thinking.

By no means, am I going to tell her she needs to cancel either of those plans, or would I tell her she needs to stop seeing either of the above. She would need to do this on her own.

Then if she did cancel or cut those engagements short, or invite me along (which I'd, in most cases, politely turn down), then it would be up to her to start making me the priority. She should not be making new plans without coming to me first.

Now, single girlfriend and club....no bueno if she's my girlfriend. This one would raise eyebrows. Bar and a few drinks with long time guy friend, while I'm out with my guy friends, fine with me.

All of this crap is on a case by case basis. Some of these scenarios, you may need to walk her through so she's the light. But she should always be putting you first. And yes, there will be things she should not be doing if she's exclusive with you.

I've banged another guy's girl as an orbiter

She was out one night with her girlfriends, her bf was working away. We had a fun night as a big group (my mates and her friends). She asked me to give her a lift home and one thing lead to another (all initiated by her)

You want to keep guys with any game whatsoever as far away from your girl as possible.

Classic. Let's break this little scenario down:

This chick was out with her with her girlfriends, they ran into some dudes, one she fvcked. I've seen this scenario a thousand times myself. My friends and I running into a group of chicks, and one or two of them as a boyfriend. Sometimes the chicks with boyfriends stick around, sometimes they go home. Me: "why is she leaving?" (usually the hottest one) Her friend: "oh, she has a boyfriend."

She sees a situation where things may get sticky if she continues on said course, so she says her good byes and politely takes off. She had her fun, maybe even did some innocent flirting, but that's as far as it goes. She knows, and recognizes, the situation for what it is.

Now, if above chick was going off of rules or boundaries or whatever, she could say: "I was out with my friends." "They were talking to these guys." "I wasn't doing anything." "It was them." then "blah, blah, gerble, garble, they guy fell and his d1ck landed in me, gerble, blah." "what, I can't even hang out with my girlfriends!!"

Like everything else, it's not black and white. It's not, if you don't do this, then this won't happen. She needs to have the ability to keep herself out of these situations on her own.

 

[Peaks&Valleys]

Girls with the constant GNO's are just as bad as having lots of guy friends. That is a deal breaker. More importantly frequent GNO's are one of the many signs of h0r that men need to recognize.

With that said, Rollo is exactly right that the way to pass the $hit test is to let her go. But the real issue at hand here is whether this is a constant thing or not and whether there is value to a man in sacrificing his fvking multiple girls for a woman who behaves in such ways.


In my experience from witnessing and partaking in fvking other men's gfs, those who seek constant GNO's are really just still "shopping" for a better man. In short, you are not it and you are just a filler until someone comes along who really knocks her undies off. Best to just keep her for fvking and not limit yourself whatsoever.

I agree with this 100%

And Rollo's article echoed a lot of what has been said on this thread, some of it to a T. He's referring to GNO's though, but I feel they're similar. I would like to see what he has to say on the whole guy friends/orbiter issue. There's different settings for a GNO, but most of the time, there's going to be guys around somewhere.

I actually feel she has a higher probability of cheating on a GNO, vs. going out with a guy she's been long time friends with. With a GNO she has a chance to run into a PUA or some guy that randomly happens to blows her doors off. She also may get stuck being a wing woman for one of her single friends, which could start off innocently but lead to something else.

When she hangs out with a guy friend, she already knows what she's dealing with. If she had it in her mind that she wants to bang this guy, then that's another story. However, if she's meeting this guy with no intention of cheating, and he's already in the friend/orbiter category, then I feel there's virtually no worry about her cheating with him. Hypergamy would be not come into play with a guy friend. She already chose you vs. that guy friend. And, as long as she chose you with good intentions, and you haven't turned into a beta wuss, then I feel you shouldn't have anything to worry about.

 

[goldengoose]

This would be a great conversation.

Hey Joe, How is your girlfriend doing?

Great, she is out with a guy friend on a date.

If your gf is with her guy friends, her IL is dropping.

 

[Peterpack]

Classic. Let's break this little scenario down:

This chick was out with her with her girlfriends, they ran into some dudes, one she fvcked. I've seen this scenario a thousand times myself. My friends and I running into a group of chicks, and one or two of them as a boyfriend. Sometimes the chicks with boyfriends stick around, sometimes they go home. Me: "why is she leaving?" (usually the hottest one) Her friend: "oh, she has a boyfriend."

She sees a situation where things may get sticky if she continues on said course, so she says her good byes and politely takes off. She had her fun, maybe even did some innocent flirting, but that's as far as it goes. She knows, and recognizes, the situation for what it is.

Now, if above chick was going off of rules or boundaries or whatever, she could say: "I was out with my friends." "They were talking to these guys." "I wasn't doing anything." "It was them." then "blah, blah, gerble, garble, they guy fell and his d1ck landed in me, gerble, blah." "what, I can't even hang out with my girlfriends!!"

Like everything else, it's not black and white. It's not, if you don't do this, then this won't happen. She needs to have the ability to keep herself out of these situations on her own.

I'm gonna add a bit more info about what happened.

Firstly me giving her a lift home was nothing particular unusual from her friends or my friends point of view as we lived fairly close to each other and in a different direction from the city from her friends. She did not flirt with her particularly aggressively during the night, just playful, it was only when we were alone in the car (well out of range of her girlfriends) that the sexual aggressiveness from her part started.

Now since that night (and this was several years ago), she actually stayed with her boyfriend, mainly because he was a fairly rich lawyer. But she made an effort to stay away from me after that. If we saw each other out, she would come say hello then retreat fairly quickly. Being the gentleman i am, i never kissed and told anyone about that night and i think they are getting married soon.

 

[Peterpack]

Back to the main topic

In this day of age of facebook and other social media, girls more than ever are so conscious of their social status and how to improve it in the eyes of their social circle. Keeping high value guys in their life is one way of doing this. She's out with her friends, she knows a guy that her friends think is cute, instantly her social value increases. It's the same for us guys, the more hot girls you know, even if you aren't banging them, the higher your social status is when out and about.

I find the above true particularly of younger (18 to 23) year old girls. When a girl is truly looking to settle down and get married, she is more willing to sacrifice things which add to her social status for security.

 

[Trump]

You want to keep guys with any game whatsoever as far away from your girl as possible.

Bro that advice is no good. Unless he is with her 24 hours, how is a guy supposed to keep his girlfriend away from all guys with game? She could meet a guy at the mall, at the supermarket, at the bus stop, at school, at work, at a sports game, at a night club, etc, etc, etc. She is going to do what she is going to do and isn't afraid of the consequences. Instead of "keep guys away" should be "pick a girl you can trust."

I think its been said before but I think boundaries come down to social value. She's a model, she can do anything she wants. She's lower than you, she is not permitted to speak to anyone.

 

[JoeMarron]

I think its been said before but I think boundaries come down to social value. She's a model, she can do anything she wants. She's lower than you, she is not permitted to speak to anyone.

And this is why men interested in monogamy should be dating down. If a man tries to date out of his league he has no leverage. If anyone wants to date models but they don't have that kind of value then they might as well settle for just sex.

 

[( . )( . )]

These threads always bring out the chorus of muppets declaring " I'm so alfalfa and nonchalant I wouldn't care if my chick was having drinks with lucifer himself " . It's all bollocks, I should know I used to be one of them.

Turns out if your chick even vocalizes her desire to hang out with other men and dares to risk you dropping her like a hot rock if she does then you are not the man you think you are in your own mind and she thinks she can do better. Sorry fellas.

If this scenario even pops up then you've dropped the ball somewhere. Women who think you're the best man her SMV can acquire don't dare do this sort of stuff. Beta orbiters were useful to prop her ego and used as a tool she once seperated the wheat from the chaff with. She should be over all that if you're perceived as top dog in her eyes.