Let's ultra-simplify... What are the top 3 attraction factors?

Atom Smasher

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Chamber36 said:
Women are attracted to ignorant guys because they mistake their idiocy for confidence.

Smart guys are simply open to anything people say, and can easily be persuaded of something if they see it as a superior solution.

Women just want men who are confident in their opinion, even it it's wrong.

I think it all comes down to congruence, being true to yourself.
I'm also a very open listener, and it's not really a turnon to women comparing all the pro's and cons of certain ideas. If it turned women on they'd all hit the chess club.
Yes, I essentially agree with you. I think what I was getting at is that focussed, intentional intelligence, with awareness of how "the game" works, can esily be leveraged to our advantage.

Intelligence that is unbridled and unfocused causes a man to appear fast-moving, fast-talking, twitchy and hyper-aware of surroundings, with a definite tendency to explore and argue pro's and cons with women, which is indeed a total turnoff to them. I have lost many a fish by doing that back in the day.

I once saw a commercial with that little guy Emmanuel Lewis when he was actually a little kid. He was sitting in a parked fighter jet with the canopy open, scatching his head and looking all around at the controls in bewilderment.

I never forgot that because that's how I conceive of extreme intelligence. The mind is like a high-performance, deadly fighter jet, but unless the person at the controls (the "self") grows up and develops and harnesses that power with understanding how the machine works, if it ever does get into the air it will flail around violently until it augers into the ground.
 

st_99

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I had a friend back in the day who was about as ugly as you can get and short as hell to make things worse and had a crap job. BUT this guy still got girls, he was was completely blind to his status and just talked to girls like he was some big shot mr. ladies man. It freaking worked. This guy also either had thick skin or could brush off criticism very well becaus whenever somebody would remind him about how low status he was, he would laugh and i guess lie to himself that he was the man. I'm not saying he got 10's but he did well for himself pulling a couple 7's and a handful of 5 and 6's. In theory he shouldn't have pulled any pssy at all. And these weren't ONS's, he actually dated these girls. True story.

I guess my point is, it really is all attitude. If I had this guys care free attitude, i'd probably quadruple my output no doubt.
 

Plateonics

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I analyzed all responses (within a mind-map) and ranked the items based on frequency as follows:

looks (9)
achievement (7)
confidence (7)
status (5)
game (4)
brains (4)
smooth talker (3)
being fun (2)

Ray Gordon's view was skipped due to it's complexity (not to discount his feedback though).

Each item includes other items as follows:

looks (style, hygiene, health, grooming, appearance, externals, what she perceives, sees you with woman/women)

achievement (goal, car, ambition, leadership skills, classy, knows history, knows foreign language, traveled)

confidence (based in experience, shown in words, body language, idiocy, ignorance, attitude)

status (wealth, has friends)

game ()

brains (intelligence, good teacher, aware))

smooth talker ()

being fun (happiness, emotional intelligence)
 
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Plateonics

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In conclusion, look as good as you can and do something with your life. This will bring confidence and wealth (so you wont have to worry about status because that's what those things bring). Then use your brains too add some game which involves smooth talking and being fun. (Condensed version: Look good and do stuff. The rest will follow. Play the game.)

(If this sounds good, my other conclusion is that mind-mapping is an excellent way to analyze long message board discussions.)
 
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sinnerman

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being mysterious and slightly moody. by moody i mean doing stuff on an impulse. this shows unpredictability. she shud never be able to figure you out completely.
 

Chamber36

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how about being

awesome

INCREDIBLE

like "whoa"
 
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evansblue said:
You think I'm gonna pay her bills??? rofl...

You think she's going to put you ahead of the man who DOES pay her bills? That's the REAL LOL

These are the men that can SUMMON her away from you at any time, and who make it possible for her to even ENTERTAIN you. Wisecracking guys with no money to spend on them don't exactly get them very wet.
 
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Plateonics said:
Conclusion:

Look as good as you can and do something with your life. This will bring confidence and wealth (so you wont have to worry about status because that's what those things bring). Then use your brains too add some game which involves smooth talking and being fun.

(If this sounds good, my other conclusion is that mind-mapping is an excellent way to analyze long message board discussions.)

(Condensed version: Look good and do stuff. The rest will follow. Play the game.)

My views couldn't be that complex, as you basically outlined my CUIPID method.

Lots of men look good and do stuff. It's not an answer in and of itself. The stuff about getting their interest is BASIC. When it comes to hardcore seduction, you need some hardcore skills:

1. Can you dominate a super-elite?
2. Can you HYPNOTIZE a woman properly?
3. Can you MASSAGE her like a professional?
4. Can you TEACH her things about the world she wants to know?

Guys used to trash me for "living with my mother," for example, as an example of low status, yet they failed to see the incredible advantage this gave, even financially. With lower expenses, I had more FREE TIME to spend with them when they called out of work, while my rivals were stuck in their offices. Also, do you really think a super-elite is going to be impressed with a cookie-cutter guy with a cookie-cutter 50k job for which he is ENSLAVED all day? As a gambler, I could win thousands instantly, and use the "TURD money" efficiently, or, if I didn't have money, I had TIME to do things my rivlas did not, like work my artist gimmicks.

Even if a guy lives alone, the woman will find fault with his "humble" apartment, "imperfect" house, or whatever. The OTL, and then Kate, got me off of trying to compete with men financially, so I didn't waste money or energy doing so. This was also a natural golddigger repellant.

Not all women want the same thing anyway. I addressed this as well, as I used to attract "minddiggers" who were heavily into brains (as defined above).

Ray Gordon
Bettor Off Single: Why Commitment Is A Bad Gamble For Men
http://www.toosmarttofail.com/bos.pdf
FREE!
 

evansblue

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BettorOffSingle said:
You think she's going to put you ahead of the man who DOES pay her bills? That's the REAL LOL

These are the men that can SUMMON her away from you at any time, and who make it possible for her to even ENTERTAIN you. Wisecracking guys with no money to spend on them don't exactly get them very wet.
75% of the girls I've slept with didn't even know what I did for a living. And I'm not sure how another man is going to "summon" them away from me when the majority of the time I only hook up with the girl once, and move on.

Guys used to trash me for "living with my mother," for example, as an example of low status, yet they failed to see the incredible advantage this gave, even financially. With lower expenses, I had more FREE TIME to spend with them when they called out of work, while my rivals were stuck in their offices. Also, do you really think a super-elite is going to be impressed with a cookie-cutter guy with a cookie-cutter 50k job for which he is ENSLAVED all day?
You're right. Why would a girl be impressed with a guy who is financially independent and carries his own weight, when she could be with a guy who's living at home with his mother watching Golden Girls reruns. Brilliant logic there.
 

sexysuave

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I'm with evansblue on the "living with mother" thing. I hope you're not still doing that. Dont' mean to be negative, but could be one of the reasons you never "settled down". At the end of the day, any woman wanting to marry you will prefer that you have your own place. Yes, I do understand some of the "advantages" and the time and no rent being huge ones, but living on your own teaches you so much also and helps you "grow up". I know a few men that are in their 40s and 50s, that still live with mom. NONE of them ever got married. Just sayin! Not trying to tell you what to do or sound negative, but I don't think this is a coincidence. I think it takes some guts moving out on your own and being able to survive. All of these guys (that I know) that are living with mother are a little "different" and I could sense a bit of insecurity in them and bitterness about things.

I think that after a while you just gotta move on and create your own life. You don't have to "settle" for 50K a year, always strive for more, have goals, build a business, something man!! You're making it sound like everyone else is crazy because they moved out and are "enslaved" for 50K a year but they weren't afraid of life, they went out and did it, got families, kids, and a lot of people make it far enough to where they DON'T have to work anymore but chose to in order to stay busy, or they do things that make them happy. Trust me, moving out on your own is not all bad. I LOVE my job and am also starting businesses on the side, and you know what, I had a discussion the other day with someone about this, but if I won the lottery, I would not quit my job. Not for a while anyway. I actually enjoy it and still have some goals I'm trying to reach. So no, moving out is not all that bad man. If you're still living with mother, I'd recommend you move on, but that's just me. The "eliminating golddiggers" with this method just sounds like an excuse to me. A good woman wanting to settle down with you would want you to have your own place dude! You sound like Ross Jefferies now with the whole living with mom thing.
 
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evansblue said:
75% of the girls I've slept with didn't even know what I did for a living. And I'm not sure how another man is going to "summon" them away from me when the majority of the time I only hook up with the girl once, and move on.
So you specialize in short-term hookups with easy women.

You're right. Why would a girl be impressed with a guy who is financially independent and carries his own weight, when she could be with a guy who's living at home with his mother watching Golden Girls reruns. Brilliant logic there.

As I go for quality women who don't look to sponge off men, most didn't care. Yeah, tell these men how to risk STDs/HIV by gaming sl*t trash and moving on to the next risk. YOU DA MAN! (not really you're another anonymous internet coward who'd crap his pants before insulting me to my face).


Actually YOUR logic is flawed. Living with mom never meant I didn't pay bills; we just did it to save cash, and because I was discriminated against in office work, so this enabled me more flexibility in my job searches. Ironically, after Mom died, my finances shot up while those who used to taunt me...moved back home! Now that your hating has been addressed, I'll restate my original point.

Living with my mom was a HUGE ADVANTAGE. Here's why:

1. The typical man who "lives alone" does so in a manner insufficient to attract a golddigger (the only type who generally cares about a man's income to begin with), or even one who is scoping him for free housing (another type of woman I don't need or want). You can't have it both ways: if you say that financial and physical independence (I was financially independent and worked) matter to women, then these women are golddigging, however minor it may seem, as they are ruling out men financially rather than based on things that actually matter in a loving relationship.

2. As you pointed out, for short-term hookups, this mattered not at all. A simple tactic I developed to compensate when I had to was to run game in HOTEL BARS, either not stating where I was from, implying that I was a tourist, or a visitor, or a local, or whatever, but I would deal with "travel slots" who had their own rooms anyway.

3. As I lived on a college campus area, most women had their own places, or at least their own rooms. Before my building closed off the roof to tenants, I got quite a lot of action up there as well.

4. The SUPER-ELITE women, the ones who could get ANY rich man, never seemed to care about my living situation, since they could get whatever they wanted anyway. They were SMART enough to figure out that if I were to build a life with them, I would leave the nest and build one with them. Unlike you, they were more positive, and forward-looking, not just trying to AMOG or hate on another man. They tended to choose me becuase of my genius IQ, my being INTERESTING, really good in bed, an excellent conversationalist, and, in my early 20s, a chessplayer (given that chessplayers earn very little they understood my situation just fine).

5. The average "independent" man doesn't earn enough or have a nice enough place to impress the type of super-elites I wanted. You ignored this before, probably because you have no answer for it, but a guy earning 50k and living in a small house is not going to stand out with a super-elite. By NOT competing with them financially, I was able to wipe the mat with these guys in every other area, sometimes even financially.

6. Because my expenses were lower, and because I would often win money gambling (cutting costs enabled me to take the necessary risks as well), I had MORE MONEY than they did to spend on clothing, dates, hobbies, etc., plus I had MORE TIME than they did. What good is it for a guy to be "independent" if he's slaving away SIXTY hours a week at a job, and has no free time to spend with her like during the workday, whereas my lifestyle allowed me this.

Your insults now apply to the men who used to insult me. My economic future is SET. Not many men can say that anymore.

It was only when I wrote BOS that I relaized what a huge advantage I had with what most men perceive as a disadvantage, but I was aware that my results were excellent, so there was no need to pay mind to the idiots who couldn't seee beneath the surface.

Oh yeah, another thing: kicking someone you think is down is never wise, because you never know who will have the money TOMORROW. Beginning in early 2009, I taught that lesson to many.

Your mouth may impress an internet forum filled with guys who have never had a super-elite, but it won't do much to get the type of woman you don't have to abandon after one lay, plus any women who put out so easily is just garbage to begin with, hardly a keeper. I dealt with some of the sexiest women on the planet, and did it without any traditional "requirements." That is the essence of GAME. Know what though? Men who are not smart enough to find the right advice and follow it harm only themselves, not really any skin off my back. I put this info out for the men who claim to want answers, but who seem to think they already have them, as their minds aren't generally open.

The type of women I used to get aren't even on the radar of most men, men who remained focused on the same nightlife trash that makes "PUAs" out of the 20-100 men they act like sl*ts for.

Ray Gordon
Bettor Off Single: Why Commitment Is A Bad Gamble For Men
http://www.toosmarttofail.com/bos.pdf
FREE!!
 

loveshogun

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I'm going to throw it out there that I have a strong need for independence and personal space. I can barely stand living with my brother, and I love that guy.

So, I bought a house, instead of living with my mom. Amazing what good credit and a steady paycheck can do.

Sure, it's FISCALLY more expensive.

But the peace of mind and the opportunity to make my own opportunities far outweighed the monetary cost.
 

loveshogun

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BettorOffSingle said:
as they are ruling out men financially rather than based on things that actually matter in a loving relationship.
Also had to throw this out there: finances absolutely matter in a loving relationship.

Anyone who says otherwise has never been poor.
 

sexysuave

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Ok, since I have a few opinions on this as well, I’ll share.

As I go for quality women who don't look to sponge off men, most didn't care. Yeah, tell these men how to risk STDs/HIV by gaming sl*t trash and moving on to the next risk. YOU DA MAN! (not really you're another anonymous internet coward who'd crap his pants before insulting me to my face).
Didn’t you say somewhere else that you already have an STD? Sounds a little hypocritical of you to be telling this to someone you don’t even know, when you your self have an STD. Did you also get it by gaming sl*t trash? YOU DA MAN!!

Actually YOUR logic is flawed. Living with mom never meant I didn't pay bills; we just did it to save cash, and because I was discriminated against in office work, so this enabled me more flexibility in my job searches. .
What exactly were you discriminated for in your office work? You are a self proclaimed “genius” with a “genius IQ” right? Why didn’t this IQ help you in such petty things as “office work”, or even help you advance wayyyy high up the latter? Why such instability and discrimination if you’re so smart?

1. The typical man who "lives alone" does so in a manner insufficient to attract a golddigger (the only type who generally cares about a man's income to begin with), or even one who is scoping him for free housing (another type of woman I don't need or want). You can't have it both ways: if you say that financial and physical independence (I was financially independent and worked) matter to women, then these women are golddigging, however minor it may seem, as they are ruling out men financially rather than based on things that actually matter in a loving relationship.
This is just plain WRONG. As loveshogun has mentioned, finances do matter and having your own place does matter. It’s not simply about “attracting golddiggers”, I feel as if this is just your excuse for staying at home. Many many MANY divorces stem from money problems. I know plenty of folk who ether divorced or are struggling with stress due to money issues, you can’t say this doesn’t play a role, it’s just wrong! And having your own place or even an apartment goes a long way, NOT for impressing golddiggers, but for giving you normal opportunities for game also. And when it’s time to settle down, it would be nice if she doesn’t have to move in with your folks (I know you already addressed this, but you weren’t planning on settling down anyway, right?).

And having that responsibility also teaches you to GROW UP a little bit and deal with life. Don’t get me wrong, I understand SOME of the benefits of staying at home, but I think the real life experience far outweighs these benefits. You become more of a man on your own. And you DON’T have to work 60 hours a week as you say. I make more than 50K at my regular job (wont’ go into details), and only work 40 hours a week, AND have 3 days off each week (Friday, Saturday, and Sunday) Not too bad right? On top of all that I have amazing benefits, 401k and the whole nine yards. I’m starting businesses on the side, and also have ALWAYS had plenty of time to run game. I don’t see how you had this HUGE advantage of staying home, I would actually say that rest of us have an advantage here. There comes a time when you have to move out and start your own life. You don’t HAVE to, but from my observation, everyone who chose to just stay at home was a little different, and NONE, NONE, NONE of them got married!! Could be a coincidence but I think not.


2. As you pointed out, for short-term hookups, this mattered not at all. A simple tactic I developed to compensate when I had to was to run game in HOTEL BARS, either not stating where I was from, implying that I was a tourist, or a visitor, or a local, or whatever, but I would deal with "travel slots" who had their own rooms anyway.
This is interesting, and let me first say that I have done this a whole bunch as well, as I do get an opportunity to travel a lot and even did it where I lived just for the sake of meeting prospects (ran game everywhere). However, you’re almost implying here that living at home WAS indeed a limitation at times. I’m willing to bet that it was more of a limitation that you’re willing to admit.


4. The SUPER-ELITE women, the ones who could get ANY rich man, never seemed to care about my living situation, since they could get whatever they wanted anyway. They were SMART enough to figure out that if I were to build a life with them, I would leave the nest and build one with them. Unlike you, they were more positive, and forward-looking, not just trying to AMOG or hate on another man. They tended to choose me becuase of my genius IQ, my being INTERESTING, really good in bed, an excellent conversationalist, and, in my early 20s, a chessplayer (given that chessplayers earn very little they understood my situation just fine).

5. The average "independent" man doesn't earn enough or have a nice enough place to impress the type of super-elites I wanted. a guy earning 50k and living in a small house is not going to stand out with a super-elite. By NOT competing with them financially, I was able to wipe the mat with these guys in every other area, sometimes even financially.
Can you please re-read these two paragraphs you wrote. You contradicted your self. You first said that super-elites NEVER seemed to care about the situation, but then said that the average “independent” man doesn’t earn enough or have a nice enough place to IMPRESS the type of super-elites you wanted! Do you see what you’re saying there? Which is it dude? I thought they didn’t give a sh*t, so why would they need to be impressed with a mansion? You’re starting to slip up here a little bit. Once again, you contradicted your self here. Which is it buddy?

Also, you said they are SMART enough to figure you would move out if you were to get married, but you never did that did you? So you had genius IQ, you were INTERESTING, you were just the best in bed, and a superb conversationalist, and a world class chess player… did you have any flaws at all? Really, tell us, have you EVER done ANYTHING wrong? And whatever happened to all of your super-elites, why didn’t you wife up one of them? Sounds like your naming your book “better off single” because you couldn’t get married, and ended up staying living at home.

And for fvcks sake, you kept saying in other posts how you’re pretty much done now, at the age of 44??????? What kinda loser attitude is this? If you are so great, how the hell are you finished at 44?? You have men that are 55 years old potentially trying to learn from you. What are you gonna tell them? “Oh sorry fellas, you’re too damn old, just don’t even try anymore, there is no hope”?? I mean really, what kind of a loser mentality is that you’re not 44 and finished?


6. Because my expenses were lower, and because I would often win money gambling (cutting costs enabled me to take the necessary risks as well), I had MORE MONEY than they did to spend on clothing, dates, hobbies, etc., plus I had MORE TIME than they did. What good is it for a guy to be "independent" if he's slaving away SIXTY hours a week at a job, and has no free time to spend with her like during the workday, whereas my lifestyle allowed me this. Your insults now apply to the men who used to insult me. My economic future is SET. Not many men can say that anymore.
Ok, in your other post you said that you are NOT rich, but yet your are economically SET?? Which one is it, you pretty much made it sound as if you have no money, and compared your self to dudes who do have money, and now you’re saying you’re SET, that’s a pretty bold statement. Once again, kinda contradictory. And you did gambling and you also said how this gig is not your income and you do absolutely GREAT betting on races and what not, man just sounds like a whole lot of contradiction. You sounded like you were so damn great at this betting on race gigs that you were some ultra wealthy guy who is doing this just for fun and NOT the money, but you ARE in fact trying to make your money with this (nothing wrong with it, just a lot of contradictionary info). So would you really tell someone asking for your help to move back in with his mom and not work and spend his extra time doing gimmicks and learning tarot cards? I mean, that was one of your benefits for living at home. Once again, are you EVER wrong? Are their situations where a guy is potentially better of.. sayyyyy having his own place and a job or maybe a business that actually does have steady income, as he is not relying on gambling to make his money? Just curious.


It was only when I wrote BOS that I relaized what a huge advantage no need to pay mind to the idiots who couldn't seee beneath the surface.
So everyone who moves out is an idiot? And everyone should just stay at home with his or her folks and end up being 44 and never married, and as you say “finished”. (I know I know, you just recently picked up a 20 year old, but a few days before that, it sounded like you pretty much “gave up”)

Your mouth may impress an internet forum filled with guys who have never had a super-elite, but it won't do much to get the type of woman you don't have to abandon after one lay, plus any women who put out so easily is just garbage to begin with, hardly a keeper. I dealt with some of the sexiest women on the planet, and did it without any traditional "requirements." That is the essence of GAME.
What woman have you kept dude? Up until a few days ago you were single and “finished”. Who are you trying to fool here. If these “super-elites” were so damn wonderful, how come you didn’t actually “keep” one of them, you know, for the long run?
 

ChalengeGuyFan

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My 'top 3 attraction factors' which apply to a girl who doesn't know you very well:

1. Being interesting - for different girls in some specific circumstances, being interesting could mean having status, appearing successful or mysterious etc.
eg: "that guy in that office... he's the boss! He's HOT!" -- status, leadership, decisiveness
or: "who's that guy at the bar?" -- looks, mysterious
or: "that goalkeeper is so HOT!" -- status, successful, looks
or: "look at that guy in the Porsche!" -- successful, money, status
etc.

2. Having confidence - all the money and all the status in the world will be useless at keeping the pvssy wet _for real_ if you appear as an insecure chode. Confidence is super important from the moment you meet her to the moment you open your mouth to talk, to the end of the relationship. Insecure chodes don't receive too much respect and ultimately get forgotten.

3. Having charm = the attitude that keeps that pvssy tingling and wet. The way you look at her, the way you talk to her, the way other girls (and men alike) respond to you, all these [and others, too] build up charm, which is key to keeping the girl.
 

evansblue

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Couldn't agree more, sexysuave. This guy is so full of sh!t he can't even keep his lies straight. :crackup:
 

corrector

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loveshogun said:
I'm going to throw it out there that I have a strong need for independence and personal space. I can barely stand living with my brother, and I love that guy.

So, I bought a house, instead of living with my mom. Amazing what good credit and a steady paycheck can do.

Sure, it's FISCALLY more expensive.

But the peace of mind and the opportunity to make my own opportunities far outweighed the monetary cost.
You did this for yourself, not to attract women so that's besides the point of this discussion.

Betterofsingle is saying you don't have to do that to attract women.
 

corrector

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sexysuave said:
This is just plain WRONG. As loveshogun has mentioned, finances do matter and having your own place does matter. It’s not simply about “attracting golddiggers”, I feel as if this is just your excuse for staying at home. Many many MANY divorces stem from money problems. I know plenty of folk who ether divorced or are struggling with stress due to money issues, you can’t say this doesn’t play a role, it’s just wrong! And having your own place or even an apartment goes a long way, NOT for impressing golddiggers, but for giving you normal opportunities for game also. And when it’s time to settle down, it would be nice if she doesn’t have to move in with your folks (I know you already addressed this, but you weren’t planning on settling down anyway, right?).
Well, I'd like to see what happens when the dollar collapses. Your government is so high in debt and is increasing the debt limit. If you listen to people like Peter Shiff -- we may experience hyper-inflation. So, what happens with money problems when that happens? What about all the men who have been laid off with more women working in jobs instead?

sexysuave said:
And having that responsibility also teaches you to GROW UP a little bit and deal with life. Don’t get me wrong, I understand SOME of the benefits of staying at home, but I think the real life experience far outweighs these benefits. You become more of a man on your own. And you DON’T have to work 60 hours a week as you say. I make more than 50K at my regular job (wont’ go into details), and only work 40 hours a week, AND have 3 days off each week (Friday, Saturday, and Sunday) Not too bad right?
But you have to work at your job or you are screwed. You can get laid off at any time, maybe your boss may like some women that he does in his office and asks you to train her for a higher position than you have and she's not qualified. Anyway, if you miss a day(s), then you could lose your job again. Therefore, you have no personal time. While you are working, betteroffsingle is working your girl.

sexysuave said:
On top of all that I have amazing benefits, 401k and the whole nine yards. I’m starting businesses on the side, and also have ALWAYS had plenty of time to run game. I don’t see how you had this HUGE advantage of staying home, I would actually say that rest of us have an advantage here. There comes a time when you have to move out and start your own life. You don’t HAVE to, but from my observation, everyone who chose to just stay at home was a little different, and NONE, NONE, NONE of them got married!! Could be a coincidence but I think not.
With the rate of divorces, false domestic abuse allegations (you even have maritial rape!), and a court system that favoures women, lots of men are choosing not to get married. It does't seem to mean anything as it did in previous generations. Maybe the people who live at home are smarter. Again, you eliminate women who want a free home or intend to divorce a few years down the road and take the assets - alimony, etc...
 
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