Let's Be Real Here Pt.1 - "The wall" actually starts at 50

[Pierce Manhammer]

But is it realistic? Women can enter menopause in their early forties. Are you consistently able to attract women 17 years your junior or younger that you find attractive?

For some men it is possible, but I'd be willing to bet its something reserved for the top 5th percentile.

Well, I'm not sure how much more I need to age or how much more experience you think I need but it's fair to say that I think I know my own mind by now = and, quite frankly, I'm just not attracted to menopausal women.

I'm not sure it's an ideological or philosophical stance per se.

 

[Hal9000]

At no point in a woman's life, prior to the nursing home when most men her age are dead, will a woman have fewer options for sex, marriage or whatever else. Anyone who is waiting to reach the age that they'll finally have more leverage when it comes to the dating game will be waiting forever. The Wall concept is a complete fraud other than the tiny little part of it where older women no longer have access to literally any man they want. That is true for most of them but that still leaves them tremendously more options than all but perhaps the top 1% of men. I'd suggest you make peace with this reality sooner than later.

 

[Westminster]

But is it realistic? Women can enter menopause in their early forties. Are you consistently able to attract women 17 years your junior or younger that you find attractive?

For some men it is possible, but I'd be willing to bet its something reserved for the top 5th percentile.

I'm not sure tbh. But I'm not wanting menopausal women anyway. Sorry, its just not my scene, I'm just trying to be honest when I say I'd rather do without.

Either way, women can go through the menopause at 40, thats true, but its not the norm. I think I heard somewhere that the average is 50 or 51, at least in Europe.

 

[The Duke]

The "funny" thing is that many men believe that OLD is a sustainable alternative solution to C approach (hence how I got sucked into that dryspell, i got lazy due to using OLD).

While the effect of a man who refuses to "ask the girl for a dance" has remained the same aa when we were young; that man will watch from the side how other dudes do play the game. Men are now confused. They've dangled this juicy steakin the form of " millions of single women are now within your reach " in front of them but they never got a taste.

" aaah so i can sit at home in my dirty underwear and STILL get an hb8,5 hy swiping right??"

NOPE!! That's why men struggle. They got a non-working solution, a placebo pill but the effect is gone now. Now these men are standing against the wall alone while the "popular guys" make shyte happen.

There are a ton of guys that need to hear this and do something about it. Learn to take rejection with a grain of salt and cold approach is so much more fun than endless swiping and convos that go nowhere. A smart guy uses both.

 

[IKO69]

If someone from outside the forum stumbled upon this they'd all think we are a bunch of ****in nerds, lololol

The wall, the physical wall is after 30, but mentally it is at 30. That is why they all start freaking out as they approach the big 3-0

 

[typical]

If someone from outside the forum stumbled upon this they'd all think we are a bunch of ****in nerds, lololol

The wall, the physical wall is after 30, but mentally it is at 30. That is why they all start freaking out as they approach the big 3-0

As Pook and AD used to say, "Most men takle life like a series of tasks that need to be completed like a maths problem", A+B= C, They fail to realise that social interactions are not so simple, hence why it's sometimes easier to go back to that base logical explanation to get your point across.

TLDR - Most men ARE nerds LOL ...... even your Gym lad will eventually start to break down his interactions with women like maths problem

 

[Smooth_texter]

If someone from outside the forum stumbled upon this they'd all think we are a bunch of ****in nerds, lololol

The wall, the physical wall is after 30, but mentally it is at 30. That is why they all start freaking out as they approach the big 3-0

While I agree about the mental part (sometimes it starts even at 25), I think that the physical wall starts way past 30. Probably at 50, or even later, as some posters mentioned.

I believe that the mental wall does not matter, since most average women can still attract a lot of men and pick the best.

 

[IKO69]

While I agree about the mental part (sometimes it starts even at 25), I think that the physical wall starts way past 30. Probably at 50, or even later, as some posters mentioned.

I believe that the mental wall does not matter, since most average women can still attract a lot of men and pick the best.

No, you're correct about the physical. A woman in her 30s if she's in shape can still look alright. She can find a decent guy and MAYBE a pretty high value guy.

The mental is everything. I would say you're sorely mistaken to discount how important it is. You see a person a person is free to make whatever choice(s) they want, but they are not free from the consequences of those choices. This goes for women and also men alike. After a certain age and number of failed relationships it weighs on the woman's mind. It manifests in anger, regret, having to hide some things from prospective new partners...becomes difficult for them because they are jaded and they do a good job of pushing away men more than anything.

They sabotage themselves, in the same way some men do by being simps, manginas, cowards etc

 

[RangerMIke]

I know women, who are grandmothers, that look great in their 50s.... I know women in their 30s that have never had kids that look like sh1t.

The 'wall' is relative. Any person, man or woman, that takes care of their health, will continue to look good their entire lives. I'm in my 50s, I look really good for my age, but there is no way I will EVER look as good as I did in my late 30s (which IMO was my peak). All you can do is look great for your age. This means you have to watch what you eat, cut out the drinking and drugs, exercise daily, and have a good work/life balance.

Unfortunately most women are lazy... and when they get to the point in their lives where they REALLY need to step up.... exercise more, eat less and better... they just fvcking quit.

 

[SW15]

At no point in a woman's life, prior to the nursing home when most men her age are dead, will a woman have fewer options for sex, marriage or whatever else. Anyone who is waiting to reach the age that they'll finally have more leverage when it comes to the dating game will be waiting forever. The Wall concept is a complete fraud other than the tiny little part of it where older women no longer have access to literally any man they want. That is true for most of them but that still leaves them tremendously more options than all but perhaps the top 1% of men. I'd suggest you make peace with this reality sooner than later.

There's this idea that at some age in the 45-54 range that single women outnumber single men.

Even if the idea is true, the only men who would gain an advantage would be ~50 year old men wanting to date ~50 year old women. Is that really that good of a prize? Is that worth getting excited to gain that leverage? The answer is no to both questions.

I also think there's merit to the idea that the typical 45, 50, or even 60 year old woman has more options for sex than her same age male equivalent.

A woman in her 30s if she's in shape can still look alright. She can find a decent guy and MAYBE a pretty high value guy.

The mental is everything. I would say you're sorely mistaken to discount how important it is. You see a person a person is free to make whatever choice(s) they want, but they are not free from the consequences of those choices. This goes for women and also men alike. After a certain age and number of failed relationships it weighs on the woman's mind. It manifests in anger, regret, having to hide some things from prospective new partners...becomes difficult for them because they are jaded and they do a good job of pushing away men more than anything.

They sabotage themselves, in the same way some men do by being simps, manginas, cowards etc

Last night, @The Duke posted a swipe app screen shot in another thread of a physically attractive 35 year old woman who is boasting about her non-monogamous lifestyle. You and I both reacted to it this morning.

She is the perfect example of your point that the mental is everything. If she were not a likely nutcase, she would have no problems attracting a man with above average value even at 35 for some kind of LTR. If she were not a likely nutcase, she would likely be in an LTR that is at least 5 years long right now.

In my own experiences in the mating environment, I have seen women 30+ carry the burden of failed relationships and observed behaviors that those failed relationships are weighing on their minds. I have seen the manifestations you mention.

 

[Bigpapa]

In my own experiences in the mating environment, I have seen women 30+ carry the burden of failed relationships and observed behaviors that those failed relationships are weighing on their minds. I have seen the manifestations you mention.

Men are the same though, they too become jaded

Most of the red\black pill or pua guys are actually people either by the lack of success either by being burned by the relationships they had

Both men and women go loco late 20s - early 30s ( in most cases at least )

My grandfather, which is almost 90, told me like 10 years ago. If you do not get married young you will reach a point when you will not want to get married anymore

Whatever we experience now, the older generation knew about it too. That is why most likely back then the government and society pushed for early marriages, because they knew most likely that people get jaded after too many failed relationships

So all these guys who look at the past and say what great it was or whatever, just shows that there is nothing different between then and now in terms of relationships or women. Just that they were more pragmatic and knew the pitfalls of life

If we think that these days ( which are the best days ever ) are tough, our ancestors will laugh

 

[SW15]

Men are the same though, they too become jaded

Most of the red\black pill or pua guys are actually people either by the lack of success either by being burned by the relationships they had

Both men and women go loco late 20s - early 30s ( in most cases at least )

My grandfather, which is almost 90, told me like 10 years ago. If you do not get married young you will reach a point when you will not want to get married anymore

Whatever we experience now, the older generation knew about it too. That is why most likely back then the government and society pushed for early marriages, because they knew most likely that people get jaded after too many failed relationships

I think there's a point to the fact that men become jaded somewhere in the 27-32 year old range too. At 27-32, that's 10-15 years of failed 1st-2nd dates without getting laid, failed relationships, failed nights out at bars/college off campus parties, etc. That takes its toll.

Rollo is a rare red pill guy who has been in the same relationship for nearly 30 years.

 

[Bigpapa]

Rollo is a rare red pill guy who has been in the same relationship for nearly 30 years.

Rollo is just a guy who is monetizing the sadness and frustration of weak men

Most of his advice is water is wet

You do not find any real answers in whatever he is preaching

What he is preaching is dealing with women as a patriarch ( because this worked in the past ), not to actually understand them

But patriarchate worked when the guy had 100% control over the woman ( like inheriting her money or for a long period of time even could kill her if he wanted to ). Trying to be patriarchal does not work.

Women were never attracted to patriarchal guys

If you would go through history we can all agree that the Spartans were the manliest men ever, but despite this women still did not “respect” them as much we like to believe they did

After women got enough resources and power, they started not barring children which made Sparta slowly but surely lose its power and become absolute

Same thing happened to the Roman society

 

[CornbreadFed]

Rollo is just a guy who is monetizing the sadness and frustration of weak men

Most of his advice is water is wet

You do not find any real answers in whatever he is preaching

I have no issues with his style. I just hate how he has obviously pivoted to being a fresh and fit vassal.

 

[SW15]

I have no issues with his style. I just hate how he has obviously pivoted to being a fresh and fit vassal.

Myron of Fresh & Fit has cited Rollo Tomassi's The Rational Male as being influential in the way he thinks.

 

[CornbreadFed]

Myron of Fresh & Fit has cited Rollo Tomassi's The Rational Male as being influential in the way he thinks.

Plenty of leaders saw leaders that they eventually surpassed as influential to them.

 

[Bigpapa]

I have no issues with his style. I just hate how he has obviously pivoted to being a fresh and fit vassal.

If he was a true stud, he would have still enjoyed life with beautiful young women while also keeping his marriage

Look at Neymar, he has a contract with his wife which lets him bang other chicks as long as he is not kissing them on the mouth or goes to prostitutes

There are way more examples like this, where the wife knows what the guy is doing but she is happy that he is returning to her all the time. Even have a friend like this

If people want to follow whatever is preaching, sure they can do that. Everyone has the liberty to do whatever they want to, but stop glorifying a guy like that. He does more bad than good things

 

[SW15]

Plenty of leaders saw leaders that they eventually surpassed as influential to them.

Rollo is 55 right now. Perhaps the point in time when Rollo was most influential in the Manosphere has passed or is about to pass.

Roosh had his Christianity conversion at age 39. It's possible that Roosh's influence would have started to diminish soon had he not left the space.

Roosh, Rollo, and Roissy/Chateau Heartiste were some of the most influential voices in the Manosphere of the late 2000s/early 2010s.

Mystery and Neil Strauss have also fallen off in influence as both of them have reached their 50s.

If he was a true stud, he would have still enjoyed life with beautiful young women while also keeping his marriage

The biggest critique of Rollo is that he has been married to the same woman for 27 years now and likely been in a relationship with her for 29-30 years. He hasn't lived the life that a 30-45 year old never married man has lived.

 

[CornbreadFed]

Rollo is 55 right now. Perhaps the point in time when Rollo was most influential in the Manosphere has passed or is about to pass.

Roosh had his Christianity conversion at age 39. It's possible that Roosh's influence would have started to diminish soon had he not left the space.

Roosh, Rollo, and Roissy/Chateau Heartiste were some of the most influential voices in the Manosphere of the late 2000s/early 2010s.

Mystery and Neil Strauss have also fallen off in influence as both of them have reached their 50s.

It is pretty obvious right now that Fresh and Fit are the leaders of the manosphere. I think their platform alienates a lot of men and causes too much controversy to last. Not to sound bad, but their marketing tactics relate more to a lower-class individual for actual advice.

 

[SW15]

It is pretty obvious right now that Fresh and Fit are the leaders of the manosphere. I think their platform alienates a lot of men and causes too much controversy to last. Not to sound bad, but their marketing tactics relate more to a lower-class individual for actual advice.

There was a time when Roosh and the Return of Kings website led the Manosphere (think 2013-2015). I preferred that era in the Manosphere to now.

Additionally, the black pill has gotten more prominent since the mid-2010s.

I still think the female wall is at least around menopause.