Jury Fights on Behalf of Citizen Against IRS, and WINS!

[A-Unit]

A link will be supplied that supports my previous posts regarding the ILLEGALITY of taxation and filing. The information is out there, but so few choose to read and research it, and ever fewer would dare slight Uncle Sam or have the resources to, so that most people voluntarily comply, day in, day out.

The link connects to (2) recordings with a Juror and a blog-site about an Illinois man who refused to file state income taxes. To prop up his position, he was/is a current US Postal employee. He never found the Illinois law forcing him to pay, or requiring him to pay. The Illinois law had its state taxing power from the "Federal Law", and in turn, this Illinois man went on a crusade to find that Federal law, with NO SUCCESS. Forced, compliant taxation is not a law. Not in the manner most citizens are aware of.

This is but one feather in the quiver toward justice and fairness for all. Obviously as a society we need to come together to pay certain pieces of our income, such as for roads, healthcare, law enforcement and safety, and some portion to our liars for hire (aka Politicians), but needn't supply the state/federal gov. with so much money they indebt us to other nations, take off on globalist wars, and use and misappropriate OUR money for those 1% who deem it's best for all us.

However, the pieces of income DO NOT need to be so layered that our taxes exceed our earnings. When you add up not only the withholding tax of our Federal and sometimes State income, but LAYERS of taxes on ALL the products we buy, SALES taxes, EXCISE taxes, GAS and TOBACCO taxes, as well as property Taxes, people pay MORE than 50% of their income toward taxes, since EVERY layer of a product HAS taxes embedded in it, all through the life cycle of the process. What does that makes you feel, to automatically lose 10% if you earn enough, and then to lose ever more dollars to taxes, feeling, well, helpless?

We need to stop feeding the blob, as it's growing so big it may consume us in the process....

http://yannone.blogspot.com/2006/08/jury-that-took-on-irs.html

Click the points that are labeled Part 1, then part 2. It will open a separate window with a very clear conversation between a talk show host and a female juror.

You can label this "conspiracy theory" if you like, but what people are really saying when the label ANYTHING conspiracy theory is: DON'T THINK FOR YOURSELF.



A-Unit

 

[Vulpine]

I have read some about income tax being unconstitutional. It turns out that the federal income tax bill was passed illegally. And, since the income tax is based on a scale, it is not "fair and equal to all citizens" as stated taxes must be in the constitution. Where tobacco tax, gas tax, and sales tax are all a set percentage (and therefore legal), income tax is not a set percentage and thus illegal.

And yes, you do not have to pay income tax. But, be prepared for a court battle when the IRS (which is not a government body, but a agency working for the government) comes knocking on your door.

See, the legalities are enforced when someone signs their tax return or tax withholding forms. The lines that you sign about "true and accurate" and such are the part where they can stick you because it's a binding legal document when you sign. Also, they hold you to fraud if you file incorrectly or deceive the IRS. They will contact you and make you sign that if you fail to sign your return. However, if you don't file a return, or forms to have taxes taken out of your paycheck, it's on them to come find you. And, when they do find you, they have to prove that you are legally obligated to pay: which they can't because their isn't a law that says you have to... income tax is illegal is why. The catch is, if you file with false information or have taxes taken out of your pay by using false information, then they will stick you for fraud or the form of fraud called "income tax evasion". So, it's a matter of convincing your employer that you don't want ANY taxes withheld - and they won't let you get "whole" pay. Nope. They'll make you fill out a W-4 as a condition of employment.

What it boils down to is if you are in the system, then you have to play by the system's rules. If you find an employer who is willing to pay you full pay without filing tax withholding forms, then you can get away with not paying income tax because you aren't in the system. Employers don't (don't care to) understand that they can be completely legal by classifying/writing off your pay as "business expenses" instead of payroll. The employer would need to pay you as though they were paying a bill for your "goods and services rendered" sort of like hiring an outside consultant and paying their fee.

Income tax is a voluntary tax.


But what about Al Capone? Al Capone should've had a better lawyer.

Uh... but federal employees don't need to pay tax. When I was in the Army, they didn't take tax out of my pay.

 

[GirlCrazy]

Heh, good luck finding a legitimate employer who doesn't withhold taxes, and good luck convincing the buyer of your house that the IRS lien on it is unconstitutional.

Until the judicial branch of the government rules income tax unconstitutional (which I hope they do - it's a mess), then the reality of it is that I work, pay taxes, and get to spend what's left over.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Heh, good luck finding a legitimate employer who doesn't withhold taxes...

You'd need to submit along with form W-4, IRS forms 6450, W-8, 590 and an Affidavit of Citizenship and Domicile and if necessary, an Affidavit of Authority. That's how you would do it.

 

[A-Unit]

Re:

The point is, the government bodies ENFORCING this outdated, and illegal institutions WON'T come forward on their own. We are not only the PRISONERS, but we are also the builders of the PRISON through our own negligence, ignorance, and apathy.

Don't buy my word, though I'm not the only SS poster who's created such threads. Other's have piggy-backed on my own, or created their own from scratch. Most refutations of topics I or other posters have created are more to the fighting or libeling point; they don't find out definately one way or the other, the TRUTH. In some situations, you have to INFER or LOGICALLY ASSUME the conclusion, if only based on a 51% swing in favor of a certain decision. 9-11 would be one such case. There's more evidence supporting the fact that the buildings were blown up, inside out, like a controlled demolition, THAN against. But this post isn't about that.

Rather it's about TAXES and WAKING people up.

YOU have freedom and control to read the consitution and the laws governing your state, but those employed by the GOV., hope you never read it or make a bytch about it. And when you do, they hope you're so depressed by what appears to be a mountainous voyage, that you give up and resign yourself to THIS system. It's called LEARNED HELPLESSNESS. Most people are very upset with BUSH, but NEVER do anything. They just bytch. Again, this isn't a BUSH post, but hear MORE people against than for, yet they do nothing but bytch.

YOU have freedom to make a stink, and if a person ever feared reprisal, doesn't that give your position MORE respect and truth, rather than less?

Very often those who have important findings will write/post under their TRUE name in the event something happens because then people will KNOW they existed and then something happened to them. As only a basic screen name or login name, you care little weight, as perhaps I carry little weight except for my posts, the people I've spoken directly to on here, and what I have said. William Cooper, author of "Behold a Pale Horse," despite his damning material, videos, and books, used his real name to generate trust in what he spoke about and so that any reprisal that might have occurred would be smurched out since he was now fairly well known. Other's like him have done the same, learning that secrecy in matters dealing with the SYSTEM is more oft going to get you killed, or at least discredited.

And if those in GOV, the higher echelons KNOW and want this secret, what makes you think they're paying anything?

I've even asked Accountants, but unless you find a vigilante accountant, few are going to rock the boat. It would bring quite a bit of undo light to accounting tax returns they've done, and could result in much IRS scrutiny for improperly filed returns. In a sense, they're not better than the middle managers or NOBLES who get some benefits for keeping the system intact.

Remember the part in Braveheart when the Noble says it's HIS NOBLE RIGHT to sleep with the man's wife on their first wedding night? He's granted certain rights and priviledges just for keeping the peace for the King. However, he's meaningless to both sides. The people hate him, and the king would dispose of him in a second if he was ever disobeyed. And that's what middle managers in companies are, IRS auditors and employees, accountants, and the host of middle feeders who have INSIDER knowledge, yet won't rock the apple cart for fear of losing their meager benefits conferred by their position. A nice cushy income, a pretty, compliant wife, a nice car, extra vacation time, perhaps above average health benefits, a retirement package, and all goes swimmingly. Most people seak employment from the GOV for the simple fact you get decent wages, rarely see layoffs, and very good health and retirement benefits, as well as the proposition of moving up as retirement hits the older employees.

Charlie Sheen's father in "Wall Street", a movie I've watched thousands of times over was far more right than wrong. Producing and creating something of value is more noble than buying and selling like a slave owner other people. As good as Greed might be, and as cool as that quote might be, reverse the equation and see what it'd feel like to be on the buying/selling side?

Check stuff out on your own. It does no good to parrot what other's say, or try to argue or disagree if you don't even realize that this situation currently exists: that taxes are illegal and are collected and managed by an illegal agency not legal by the standards of our constitution, which is the supreme law of the land, regardless of your religious denomination. Is it any wonder that reading the consitution thoroughly in HS or college isn't made a requirement?



A-Unit

 

[Vulpine]

Heh, good luck finding a legitimate employer who doesn't withhold taxes, and good luck convincing the buyer of your house that the IRS lien on it is unconstitutional.

That's all fine and nice.

Did you listen to the links? Take a few minutes and listen to both part one and part two. Until you present to me the law, you can't make Mr. Knowitall cracks without sounding like a "sheeple". And to that I respond with "Ba-ah-ah-ah".

You are part of the problem, not of the solution.

In this case, the guy was not guilty because someone was paying attention and asked to see the law that the guy was supposedly breaking. When they found and read the Illinois law, it referred to the condition: "those that are required to pay federal income tax are also required to pay Illinois state tax".

Well guess what Chachi, noone is REQUIRED to pay federal income tax: it is voluntary. However, American "sheeple", such as yourself, blindly believe things that so-called "authorities" tell them without looking for themselves. These "sheeple" end up on the juries that find people "guilty" of make-believe laws because they simply believe they exist... just like the Tooth Fairy.

 

[A-Unit]

Re:

Nice reply, Vulpine. To the point, not too harsh, just cynical enough.

That's worth some rep points in my book.


A-Unit

 

[GirlCrazy]

That's all fine and nice.

Did you listen to the links? Take a few minutes and listen to both part one and part two. Until you present to me the law, you can't make Mr. Knowitall cracks without sounding like a "sheeple". And to that I respond with "Ba-ah-ah-ah".

You are part of the problem, not of the solution.

In this case, the guy was not guilty because someone was paying attention and asked to see the law that the guy was supposedly breaking. When they found and read the Illinois law, it referred to the condition: "those that are required to pay federal income tax are also required to pay Illinois state tax".

Well guess what Chachi, noone is REQUIRED to pay federal income tax: it is voluntary. However, American "sheeple", such as yourself, blindly believe things that so-called "authorities" tell them without looking for themselves. These "sheeple" end up on the juries that find people "guilty" of make-believe laws because they simply believe they exist... just like the Tooth Fairy.

...and that rambling tirade is supposed to convince me otherwise? I'll take that to mean that you don't pay taxes?

Honestly, you sound like that old crazy man in front of some store I used to shop at who spouted that stuff to anyone that would listen, which ironically, was usually nobody. The only folks I know who don't pay taxes are either a) in trouble with the law or b) bums or c) nut-cases.

I've never met one single person who lived well, who also didn't pay taxes. It's like those "live better, work union" stickers you see. They're always stuck to a '78 nova and never to an SLK roadster.

But assuming you're right, what, as a half-man half sheep, can I do to break out of this vicious cycle of giving the government money? Clearly the government isn't qualified to spend my money. I think we can all agree on that!

 

[A-Unit]

Re:

How was that "hunters of dune" book? I passed by it @ Boarders and saw the movie quite a long time ago.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I agree on MOST people paying, but that's just it, sustaining the system through sustainenace of FALSE, UNTRUE, beliefs. Most people pay them, or cheat them, UNTIL they can fight them. We are hopefully all on the same team, HUMANITY.

If that's the case, despite what you table as Rambling Tirades and Refutation of facts, why not tell us/me what you know or don't know of the topic, what doesn't make sense, and present your conflicting or supporting facts? It does no good for anyone to spit back and forth that my grass is greener without supporting it, especially if one of us is color blind to begin with and can't distinguish colors anyways.

-Point blank, Taxes are illegal. So is the IRS as an extension of of the US treasury and the creation of the Fed.
-Money is misspent.
-Most people will pay taxes UNTIL they have a plan of attack, a good accountant, and their shyt in order.
-Continuing to pay taxes only prolongs the life of defunct systems.
-A bad system can't be made better. A bad system has to be junked.
-It is a voluntary system, AND Most of our tax dollars DO NOT go to things which benefits and improves humanity, rather it goes to things that DEGRADE and RUIN humanity, i.e. War, Fights over sexuality (Gay marriage), supporting the Welfare state, and Imprisoning ourselves by hiring a plethora of Politicians who grease palms and steal healthcare benefits. If everybody, like jerking the power on a HUGE computer system sucking the life out of them, STOPPED one day, they'd be forced into changing.


A-Unit

 

[Bible_Belt]

http://www.fraudsandscams.com/sixteenth.htm

 

[Shiftkey]

Maybe you're right, but I'm not so sure it would be good for the country to just stop income taxation. It would create a major problem just to adhere to what could be an oversight or mistake in the Constitution. You said so your self that we need tax money for roads, law enforcement, etc. How would we pay for that without income tax? Sales tax wouldn't cover it.

This sounds to me more like an indirect rant on foreign policy, and I agree with you that it's a mess. But adding another problem isn't going to solve our problems with foreign policy. Especially not at a time where the stupid masses think terrorists are going to blow us up. We should focus on stopping the fear mongers in the Whitehouse before ending income tax.

 

[Vulpine]

...and that rambling tirade is supposed to convince me otherwise? I'll take that to mean that you don't pay taxes?

Erhem... I don't when I am not in the system. That is, I don't pay taxes whenever I'm not bound by forms to have to.

I've never met one single person who lived well, who also didn't pay taxes.

I have. This guy is stinking rich, and he's rich because he's smart. He owns 8 apartment complexes. It sort of makes me sick, but, only because I'm jealous. Not only does he sit on his but and "collect money", but he doesn't have a job. Since he doesn't have a job, he has collected his eligible share of unemployement. (Shady... but funny.)
Lived well? I don't know if I can say he lives well, but he does have a woman who he has been living with for 23 years and will not marry. He rides around in a Porshe and flies around in an experimental/ultralight plane on trips constantly after he 1. built the plane 2. got his pilot's license. I mean, with all the freaking time he's got from not having a job... might as well do something productive. I could ramble on and on, but as you can see he is obviously "unplugged" from the matrix. Has he gotten caught? How would he? He doesn't send the IRS his current information.

The guy is my idol.

By the way, A-Unit, I haven't seen previous posts of yours about this. What I know is from what I've been presented elsewhere. So, if I sound like a parrot, I'm merely offering agreement based on what I've known outside of SS.

 

[GirlCrazy]

How was that "hunters of dune" book? I passed by it @ Boarders and saw the movie quite a long time ago.

Much better than I expected. Line 1 of the book is "we all wish Frank Herbert were alive to write this book", which I think echos everyone's sentiments.

If that's the case, despite what you table as Rambling Tirades and Refutation of facts, why not tell us/me what you know or don't know of the topic, what doesn't make sense, and present your conflicting or supporting facts? It does no good for anyone to spit back and forth that my grass is greener without supporting it, especially if one of us is color blind to begin with and can't distinguish colors anyways.

Fair enough. My knowledge of the subject is based on 20ish years paying taxes, and making sure I hit all the loopholes that I can to minimize my tax burden. I know that my tax bracket is a high one, and I pay up the wazoo even with the writeoffs I have. I'm not a lawyer, or an expert by any means. Nor would I call myself one after listening to a couple podcasts.

What can be done (long term)? Two words, flat tax. At the minumum, to live, humans require X amount of infrastructure. The paramedics / police don't see your 911 call as voluntary. The money for roads / streetlights / etc., has to come from somewhere, and I don't have a problem pitching in for it. Just the money our government wastes could probably provide infrastructure for the whole world, so the system is seriously broken.

What can be done (short term)? The best option looks like just paying it. Not paying, in the short term, would involve giving back a substantial number of "shiny objects" which I have no intention of parting with, other than to upgrade to newer, shinier objects. If you look at it as a "cost of doing business", then it doesn't really matter. I make X, I pay Y, in taxes, and I'm left with Z. Now Z does me just fine, and allows me to invest some and make more money, which of course the government takes their cut. I look at my net worth (shiny objects minus what I owe), and just don't see the goverment as a major factor in my life.

So I (like most others) do nothing to change the government, enjoy my life and spending Z on shiny objects. This allows me the complete freedom of indifference towards all things government. I 'pay the man' and then the man can fvck off as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Vulpine]

http://www.fraudsandscams.com/sixteenth.htm

Most common arguements? I never heard that "Taft as president" one... funny. The more common ones I hear are along the lines that some states didn't vote, or voted "against" but were counted as "for" so the 3/4 business was fraudulent and/or the vote failed.

 

[GirlCrazy]

Erhem... I don't when I am not in the system. That is, I don't pay taxes whenever I'm not bound by forms to have to.

So you didn't file your 2005 income taxes then? If you did, then all I'm saying is don't be so quick to pat yourself on the fur, and practice what you preach.

I have. This guy is stinking rich, and he's rich because he's smart. He owns 8 apartment complexes. It sort of makes me sick, but, only because I'm jealous. Not only does he sit on his but and "collect money", but he doesn't have a job. Since he doesn't have a job, he has collected his eligible share of unemployement. (Shady... but funny.)
Lived well? I don't know if I can say he lives well, but he does have a woman who he has been living with for 23 years and will not marry. He rides around in a Porshe and flies around in an experimental/ultralight plane on trips constantly after he 1. built the plane 2. got his pilot's license. I mean, with all the freaking time he's got from not having a job... might as well do something productive. I could ramble on and on, but as you can see he is obviously "unplugged" from the matrix. Has he gotten caught? How would he? He doesn't send the IRS his current information.

Within 5-10 years I intend to be mostly unplugged from the matrix. I plan on paying local property taxes on the large ranch that I'll own, and living on the money I've set aside (after taxes). As far as completely unplugged, I don't see how that's possible. If you own a home, vehicle, phone, etc., then you give the government money. Your friend's pilot license fee probably helped pay for a JDAM guided ordinance, which was probably dropped on school children. Bottom line, the government is always going to get a piece of the action. They're like the mafia. My personal goal is to minimize their piece, and maximize mine.

I'm all ears on how your friend can run a mini empire without giving the government money, and without exposure to jail / lawsuits. Not being as altruistic as you guys, first I look at "what's in it for Chachi".

*edited for glaring error in grammar*

 

[Vulpine]

The money for roads / streetlights / etc., has to come from somewhere, and I don't have a problem pitching in for it.

For an example, the "money for roads" comes from two places already: gas tax and tolls.

 

[GirlCrazy]

For an example, the "money for roads" comes from two places already: gas tax and tolls.

It would probably cover it if the government didn't dreadfully mismanage the money. I was actually thinking about this the other day. Even 500 years ago, people b!tched that they were paying the king too much for substandard roads. And of course the nobles skimmed off the top before it even got to the king. Will that ever really change?

On a side note: It looks like the wife (who has been halfheartedly following this discussion) is going to start calling me Chachi hehe.

 

[Vulpine]

So you didn't file your 2005 income taxes then? If you did, then all I'm saying is don't be so quick to pat yourself on the fur, and practice what you preach.

I've already said too much. Reach your own conclusions.

 

[Bible_Belt]

A person claiming that taxes are illegal could not get an attorney to represent them, because the court or the bar association would punish the attorney for making frivilous arguments. Taxes are as legal as judges say they are.

 

[A-Unit]

Re:

Taxes are as legal as judges say they are.

Listening to the audio version, Bible_Belt, you'll note the same thing was contended by the jury; that the judge was the law and lay of the land. But the audio interview came about because the jury person, 1 female, wouldn't take the judge as LAW. She chose the constitution and accepted laws, not someone touting a badge. Power in these instances comes from lack of knowledge. There's TONS of people who get bagged by the Police for stupid infractions, only because they don't know the law. Again, they won't change anything, because not enough people want it changed, and perhaps not enough people feel screwed as to stop paying taxes. The "rich" don't care, because they can afford to, and they can pay top money to either lobby in their favor or compensate advisors, lawyers, and accountants to hide money.

Heck, my own somewhat wealthy uncle does this through his privately owned corporation to screw my aunt out of thousands of dollars in alimony and child support. I can't even fathom how big this hole is for those in the millions, hundreds of millions, and on up to billions.

Feigning apathy, ignorance, or conspiracy doesn't eradicate something fishy, and it isn't only THIS audio program which highlights an epidemic. Freedom to Fascism, which is perhaps closing in on Michael Moore status as a "whistle blower," bases much of its information on taxes, constitutionality, and expert witnesses. Only this time, they're degree-conferred interviews, ex-auditors, ex-IRS employees, accountants, and lawyers.

Consciousness in this arena is growing, and those in power only have power because WE bought their lies and allowed them to abuse us, NOT because they are more powerful. Keep in mind, WE keep whatever system exists on this planet, and that NATURAL laws don't totally dominate our existence. Yes, I believe in Law of Attraction, but we can't state we have any system SIMILAR to Capitalism because as you look around, you notice how much of our society is a planned economy with many safe-guards that favor large corporations.

My own personal agenda as it relates to this is a growing frustration that people don't get it, and sometimes you have to hear it from people you trust or know to even try some research in OPENING your mind. It'd be like your old friend, who was terrible with women, all of a sudden bagging hot babes, and you can't believe he does anything with intention or changed anything. Yet, he tells you he found THIS site and a few books and developed the attitude he WOULD change his circumstances. And over time, of viewing his success happen quite regularly YOU BUY INTO what he's saying. And then, you do your own work and it snowballs. Eventually, you take to what he showed you, adopting it to your own needs and personality.

Same thing here. I'm not saying I'm 100% on. I don't do near the research levels some guys do, I just keep an open mind and USE all sources of media to formulate opinions and facts. Isn't that how it's supposed to me? More importantly, I do alot of it here, because the WHOLE seduction community is about unplugging yourself from community, yet, you can't be unplugged if you're not FULLY unplugged. The basic premise then becomes, QUESTION EVERYTHING, and develop your own OPINIONS, and have concrete evidence to back up what you bring.

I remember positing much information on 9-11 OFF the computer. For awhile, it was just to broach people's perceptions on that day. Most people at the time focused on the horrors of terrorisim and possibly losing loved ones. But wouldn't it be infinitely worse to have known they died for the selfish reasons of someone's alternate agenda? Who's, we won't know. But what we can know is SOMETHING is fishy. I won't into here, but as I began saying, obviously having an OPINION counter the one pushed on mainstream outlets brings alot of suspicion and some aggravation. But that, to me, is only the Ego being pushed out of its comfort zone and being forced to think. As I even just OFFERED a minor discussion on the topic, people opened up, brought forth their facts, and many stated how it never seemed to jive right with them. I wouldn't want anyone to BUY what I say 100%, because that right there is the problem with people in general. They don't think for themselves. Better, they TAKE what's here, add or subtract for their own inventory, and bring ME back some new information, too.

That's what happened regarding the secret. Many guys PMED me with book suggesting, some of which I now own. Thank ya very much I do say.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I don't have a problem paying my due share, albeit as high as it might appear related to my current income. What I have a problem with is THE DECEPTION. School systems are happy to churn out dumber and dumber social products. People that are technically savy enough to run heavy machines and pump gasoline into their automombiles, drive 100 mph, and avoid collision, BUT not teach basic financial concepts, thinking, understanding the law of the land? Come on. The element that it is that keeps CERTAIN groups down is ALPHANESS, that's a COP OUT. "Yes I'm Alpha, so I have the right to control and subjugate a certain sect of the population FOR MY OWN GAINS." Wtf? That's the ego and one helluva hurt piece of human consciousness that seeks to inflict pain others. That's what that is. If it's been in existence forever, it's not NATURAL. Natural is WHAT animals are. Humans ceased being natural when the ability to THINK came into being Consciousness is what supposedly separates people from animals, only animals don't MURDER for pleasure, they it out of natural social protocols. I'd hardly count rape, murder, nukes, war, genocide, etc as NATURAL parts of humanity. And I quite honesty don't care how SAVAGE the Rain Forrest jungle is, because I've heard the comparison drawn, and I don't buy it. I've seen the A&E specials and Discovery channel specials, and we know animals consume one another, only to return to the planet in some other form. Fine and dandy.


Stepping off my soap box...I'm done. Thank you for reading.

I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it =) :cuss:


A-Unit