Jury Fights on Behalf of Citizen Against IRS, and WINS!

Status
Not open for further replies.

GirlCrazy

Master Don Juan
Joined
Apr 10, 2003
Messages
658
Reaction score
1
Age
58
Location
Spokane, WA
I've already said too much. Reach your own conclusions.
Very well, here are my conclusions:

a) Everyone who posted in this thread filed a return for tax year 2005.

b) Always practice what you preach.

c) The government sucks.

d) If you ever completely detach from the matrix, giant spider-like robots will seek you out and terminate your life readouts, unless you're Neo.

Heck, my own somewhat wealthy uncle does this through his privately owned corporation to screw my aunt out of thousands of dollars in alimony and child support. I can't even fathom how big this hole is for those in the millions, hundreds of millions, and on up to billions.
I worked with a guy that used an offshore corporation to screw his wife during a divorce. Even a Delaware corporation can avoid paying taxes by operating at a loss and still shield the folks running it from getting sued. Heh, maybe that's the best solution to avoid taxes. We all know that corporations don't pay any!

I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it =)
Heh, I'm casually indifferent as hell, and I'll open my checkbook to anyone who shows proper ID, as long as I get to keep my shiny objects!

"Silently passing your time in the grassland away...."

*Also steps off soapbox*
 

Bible_Belt

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
17,125
Reaction score
5,752
Age
48
Location
midwestern cow field 40
the jury person, 1 female, wouldn't take the judge as LAW. She chose the constitution and accepted laws, not someone touting a badge.

What you describe is known as "jury nullification." The jury has the right to decide that the law is stupid and not enforce it. Courts really hate it when this happens, so they put in the rules of jury instruction that a defense attorney is not allowed to inform the jury of their right of nullification.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_nullification
 

Bonhomme

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jan 2, 2002
Messages
3,957
Reaction score
16
Location
Land of the Ruins
However, if you don't file a return, or forms to have taxes taken out of your paycheck, it's on them to come find you. And, when they do find you, they have to prove that you are legally obligated to pay: which they can't because their isn't a law that says you have to... income tax is illegal is why. The catch is, if you file with false information or have taxes taken out of your pay by using false information, then they will stick you for fraud or the form of fraud called "income tax evasion". So, it's a matter of convincing your employer that you don't want ANY taxes withheld - and they won't let you get "whole" pay. Nope. They'll make you fill out a W-4 as a condition of employment.
I take it then, if you work for yourself, the burden of proof is technically on them to prove you are required to file.
 

Deep Dish

Master Don Juan
Joined
Nov 25, 2002
Messages
2,190
Reaction score
167
The United States Supreme Court made rulings, decades ago, which settled the matter. The IRS, income tax, the Sixteenth ammendment, and all that, are constitutionally sound. To be an "IRS skeptic" is to join the ranks of evolution skeptics, man on the moon skeptics, Holocaust skeptics, 9/11 skeptics, and other fringe skeptics with such a flimsy and nonexistent basis in reality that it's not even worth debating. Credible scientists refuse to debate people who deny that man ever went on the moon; credible biologists refuse to debate creationists; credible historians refuse to debate Holocaust deniers. It's not out of any "small-mindedness" or "conspiracies" but the disparities between denial and reality are so vast that to debate them suggests there "might be" something to the claims. Whenever you hear someone call for a "paradigm shift"—that is quite a favorite phrase among the pushers of quackery—be wary because that is usually among the very first signs that you're dealing with a quack. Correspondingly, this is my first and last post on this thread.

(On a side note, I have an uncle who is a retired IRS agent. He once parlayed a true story to me. It was of a federal judge who had the reputation of being easy on people. When a tax evading protestor's case came in front of him, the judge ordered the protestor six months to properly file his taxes and without penalty. Six months passed. The protestor showed up to court and still refused to pay taxes; he became rather belligerent and starting shouting. The judge threw down his gravel and said "Custody to the US Marshalls!" The protestor wasn't even allowed to go home. My point is that is the fate awaiting anyone who wishes to deny tax reality.)
 

A-Unit

Master Don Juan
Joined
Aug 6, 2004
Messages
1,515
Reaction score
43
Re:

http://famguardian.org/Subjects/Taxes/16Amend/LegIntent16thAmend.htm

Give that a tug, if it do ya well.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Letter of the language in regards to levy and collection of taxes is VAGUE at best. If it was so affirmed to be right, disentors would rarely show their faces. And in turn, if this case was so clear cut as you put it Deep_Dish, then why do movies like Freedom to Fascism crop up? To confuse and confound the (ma)sses so that they lack freedom and confidence in their governing body? Or is it freedom of speech at work and the GOV wouldn't strike down such tripe because it would be a blatant smack down of law?

I understand the tone of your post, and I don't expect you to read mine, as if you're a man o' your word, you'll likely have gone past the banter this post, and those like this one create. However, lumping ALL topics together into one category as "conspiracy" theory, then labeling those who "think for themselves" as deniers is, well, more psychological warfare than anything. Your reference to IRS uncle gives credence to what the posts refers to, yet, trying to besmurch the feelings and reputations of other's who might belief different than you is not different than the criminals you finger out as deniers, don't you think?

It's much the same argument those who fear reprisal on 9-11 use. They gather a bunch of "engineers" and "scientists," those with tenure, government connections, or high-pay positions, those with something to lose, put them on display, and feed them what they shall parrott as the party-line. Logic alone can refute what happened on 9-11. Three buildings, one of which was never hit, DO NOT fall, imploding on itself, as a result of fire. Moreover, structural integrity as it be compromised would cause the building to list to one direction, and not uniformly fall so perfect as to NOT hit another building. The devastation SHOULD have been worse had the buildings actually been the work of terrorists, because they would have toppled onto the citizens of New York. Moreover, were they work of Terrorists, affirmed through government research and our 500 billion dollar budget, we'd have found more than Mass-Weapons of Destruction. We'd be a nation united, not divided, as we stand. But once again, a different post, for a different day.

Diverting the topic by suggesting YOUR REALITY is right, and the 16th Amendment is correct is a bit...smug. It's much the same tactics used to force people into a VOLUNTARY situation of payment to an institution misappropriating money worse than Enron at its peak.

A law needs to be COMPLETE, CLEAR, and LAID out. A new shrouded in such secrecy, that is inevitably ONLY enforced through fear, compulsion, and Neo-Con enforcers IS NOT A LAW. How can it be? Every contradictory argument yet posted is SOLELY based on fear?

"Alas, the Judge will heave you into jail!"
"Alas, the IRS agents will track you down, audit you, and throw you into jail!"

The country is built on THE PEOPLE. When it ceases to have this CLEAR goal in mind, like a DEFUNCT corporation it must be thrust into the pit and thrown to the winds. Bottom line. If it EXISTS for any other purpose, it ceases to exist. It negates its OWN EXISTENCE. One can say a corporation on exists for Profit, but if that be true, then it ceases to exist, too. Much more injury can be had by a defunct corporation NOT focusing on people, and solely focusing on money. See, injured citizens. See, damaged nature. See Enron. See Exxon Valdiz Spill. See Pollution. See Monsanto. The profits themself aren't HAD in an Ayn Randian utopia where people are free. In her book, which is utopian in its hope, but utterly impossible to achieve in present day America, people are free to come and go. Laissez Faire. Minimal government intervention. Maximal business strength. We can only know the merit of these ideals if they ACTUALLY exist, otherwise they're mental extentions of hope and theory with no more weight than air.

I'll grant you your opinion, and the freedom to think, but your argument is full of holes, and provides but one reference to anything factual. It's akin to saying "Because My Mom Says it's True." Just because a he-said-she-said situation occurred, doesn't make it so. And yes the 16th is said to be ratified, but, the only way things SHOULD exist legally is if they're 100% by the Consitution, any OTHER manner of doing so differently isn't LEGAL. The government can't subjectify, it can only objectify things. Everything MUST be straight and narrow as tough as that might be given such power. If it requires a 2/3 vote, and there never was one, then it isn't legal. There's no grey area. More importantly, POWER CANNOT BE GIVEN TO CORPORATIONS or SEPARATELY owned ENTERPRISES on behalf of the US GOV. They cannot entrust or imbue OTHER entities with their rights/powers.



A-Unit
 

Peace and Quiet

If you currently have too many women chasing you, calling you, harassing you, knocking on your door at 2 o'clock in the morning... then I have the simple solution for you.

Just read my free ebook 22 Rules for Massive Success With Women and do the opposite of what I recommend.

This will quickly drive all women away from you.

And you will be able to relax and to live your life in peace and quiet.

Bible_Belt

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
17,125
Reaction score
5,752
Age
48
Location
midwestern cow field 40
But what is 'legal?' The debate is over the definition. I think the best definition is something like "an action or inaction that is not punished by the government." If you are right in theory, but still get punished, then your theoretical correctness is a moot point.
 

A-Unit

Master Don Juan
Joined
Aug 6, 2004
Messages
1,515
Reaction score
43
Re:

Legality is of the government in nature, and anything deemed ILLEGAL is that which is NOT allowed by established laws. But when you base your barometer on only that which is legal, without questioning the underlying Legal Body, you might find yourself trapped in an Insane Asylum with the patients determining Law rather than the Sane Doctors.

The RULING document of the land is the Constitution. All else flows from that, whether it's interpreted correctly or not. Some might say it's outdated, at over 200 years and not fit to govern current society, but that's bunk. Those fellows just want to trash the supreme document of the land, that which encompasses the spirity of freedom and equality, and rather adopt laws, rules, and principles that MANAGE society in an orderly and profitable way to someone else's benefit.

Despite being 200 years ago, the men who created and conveyed their ideas in the Constitution were MORE accomplished as individuals and MORE educated than present day politicans. It wasn't only the future at stake, but the wealth they brought over or inherited. Many of them lost their lives for signing.

The sad part is, many more ILLEGALITIES are committed by those writing the laws, than those GOVERNING the laws, and many will say in the of freedom. Yet, freedom had at the expense of committing a felony, criminal activity, or harming another person IS NOT FREEDOM.



A-Unit
 

diablo

Master Don Juan
Joined
Mar 2, 2004
Messages
4,678
Reaction score
8
Location
Louisiana, USA
While the conversation is stimulating and being well debated on both sides, the rule of the forum is that threads of a political nature need to be taken to sites other than this one.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top