It's gotten to the point where...

[iqqi]

You have no idea how I WISH I could go on a nice first date with a woman where I actually ENJOY myself without trying to f**k her. When I first got back into dating, I purposely stopped myself short on a couple of dates...one with this gorgeous redhead I DESPERATELY wanted to bang. I never heard from her again. Why do you women complicate things that are really quite simple?

What are you saying? What is simple? That you want to have sex? Well... maybe she simply does not, at least not until she likes you enough! Which won't happen until she gets to know you better.

Maybe that is even where your issues lie? It could be either A. you just never want to take the time to get to know a woman well first or B. once she gets to know you, she isn't interested? Could be other things too...

If women were truly "independent", they would have sex when they wanted to have sex, not when they thought they could get maximum personal gain from it.

You are making more negative assumptions here. You are assuming that a girl wants to f##k you right away, but does not because it is a commodity.

There are a lot of women who just do not want to sleep with a guy until she has established a relationship with him that is more than just casual, and that is dependent on him really liking her the more he gets to know her, and vice versa.

I'm not saying there aren't any women who view their pvssy as a commodity. There ARE, but these are vapid, materialistic women and they probably get the idea from men like you. ZING!

You tell me to "grow"...but the point is I've "grown" past the point of tolerating these silly games. I have a more "mature" attitude toward "love" than 99.9% of the human population. If anything, I'm lamenting that more people don't get it.

Uh huh, ok, that is why you are so happy with women and love. Ok, Dr. Love!

Romance is the postmodern deity of choice, in the absence of classic religion. Women are its "priests" and "bishops", and they use their position to wield power over the stupefied. It doesn't work like that for me...I guess that makes me an apostate??

Sounds like you are a happy camper and you know it all!

Tell me this then, Dr Love. How come you are still sitting in the same squirrel town, doing the same squirrel things, and still making the same squirrel complaints that you were a few years ago? Only now you have more "answers". TO THE SAME QUESTIONS AND ISSUES!

Lol! Serious question though.

 

[squirrels]

Wow...I honestly don't feel like quoting all that.

I used this particular girl as an example of what's wrong with the way modern people think. I'm not saying ALL women think that way. But I AM saying it's much more prevalent now, it seems, than when I was younger. They all get lost in this "relationship" crap. Sex has to be a "relationship". Friendship has to be a "relationship". A relationship that has to be managed as an entity unto itself, according to a set of arbitrary rules.

I guess the truthful response in this case was that I just didn't really have that much respect for her, as a person OR as a woman.

I'm in a weird position, here. I'm trying to "get back into the game", trying to get some practice talking to women, dating, loving, all that good stuff. The problem is that it's RARE that I find a woman I respect. Yet I still have to do this crap, lest I get rusty.

I took a LOT of time off from dating/messing around with women. Maybe I should take a LOT more...I dunno. Now the RIGHT woman, that I could get into. Alas, every woman I run into lets me down.

Bear in mind this girl approached ME. TWICE, in fact. She chatted me up once before, then cancelled her account when she got taken in by this other dude who jumped in her pants and then dumped her, then she signed back up and chatted me up again. I knew right from reading her profile that she was a dimwitted "victim-type", someone that only knew two states..."user" and "used". But (per something you seem to suggest might be a good idea) I opened my mind to her and gave her the benefit of the doubt.

We initiated a conversation, casual stuff, mostly. Then she started asking me for more pics, more pics, more pics...then I pass off the mildest of suggestive jokes, and I get, "OMG IS THAT A SEXUAL STATEMENT!? I DON'T WANT TO TALK TO YOU!!"

Most women, the "art of the coquette" is lost. Fine if she doesn't want to f*ck until she gets to know me. But I'm in no mood for her to make a big social issue about it. And quite frankly, I was unimpressed with what she had to say...meh to her.

The reason I'm griping about it is because, more often than not, that's what I encounter these days.

I really want to date a couple of interesting girls, do the romance thing. But I'll be damned if I can find more than one at a time, and I'm lucky to find THAT.

I rant because I'm tired of trying. Yes, I know a couple of people say I shouldn't be so direct...I should be subtle and casually tiptoe around this girl until I can find a way to "score". I just didn't really see the point in it with her. I'd be wasting my time.

I guess the other choice would be to just stop talking to her outright, but sometimes I figure I'll just level with her, and I keep hoping maybe one of these slack-ass girls will step up and surprise me, in some way or other. Hoping one will actually speak some truth with me once in a while.

THe reason I'm still here, Iqqi? Because I'm sitting on the verge of conclusions I really don't want to accept. Namely...I don't WANT to accept and believe that the vast majority of people really ARE that stupid, and really DO take themselves THAT seriously.

I guess it's my mistake. It's not so much that I wanted to know how to "bag" her...it's more that I wanted to know whether there's a way to wake her up. To make her understand how little importance all this romance/sex/love crap has, and how we should be ENJOYING it, not trying to be perfect with it.

Back when I HAD game, I used to believe that most people just didn't WANT to be "saved"...and I should just "get mine" and play the game like everyone suggests. Now, that attitude just puts a damper on my mood.

Maybe I'm honestly getting "too old" for "love". That's a sad thought. I just don't see the point in it any more. It used to be so damned easy...and people just became SO obsessed with it and, as a result, made it more complicated and more complicated until it was no longer ALLOWED to be easy and fun...it had to be "just so". And I just don't care to "stay sharp" any more...because for some reason most women just don't interest me. I mean yeah, they "arouse" me, but talking to them is a chore. Talking to THIS GIRL was a chore.

 

[iqqi]

I used this particular girl as an example of what's wrong with the way modern people think. I'm not saying ALL women think that way. But I AM saying it's much more prevalent now, it seems, than when I was younger. They all get lost in this "relationship" crap. Sex has to be a "relationship". Friendship has to be a "relationship". A relationship that has to be managed as an entity unto itself, according to a set of arbitrary rules.

I guess the truthful response in this case was that I just didn't really have that much respect for her, as a person OR as a woman.

You didn't even KNOW her. You are talking about one or online interactions, that didn't go your way. And relationship is just your interaction with another person. What are you unable to understand about that? If you want sex and no other interaction then you need a robot, or your hand. If you want a purely sexual relationship with a woman, then you need to find one that wants just that as well.

We can take this one point at a time.

The rest of your post is all assumptions about a girl you don't even know and generalizations of everyone based on those assumptions about one girl.

You say that your choices are to not talk to her at all vs pretend to be interested in her to get into her pants. This just screams that you are only interested in sex. If there isn't sex right off the bat, then you are not interested in trying to develop any kind of further relationship, or getting to know her. Unfortunately for you, there aren't a lot of interesting women who like to have sex with complete strangers without establishing some kind of base. Maybe if you owned a helicopter and had a mansion on an island, but you aren't that intriguing, and not all women would go for that any ways... but you'd have more of a chance of having the direct sex you really want, without any other base but your wealth.

All of the negative conclusions that you are coming to are based on your own limitations here.

 

[squirrels]

You didn't even KNOW her. You are talking about one or online interactions, that didn't go your way. And relationship is just your interaction with another person. What are you unable to understand about that? If you want sex and no other interaction then you need a robot, or your hand. If you want a purely sexual relationship with a woman, then you need to find one that wants just that as well.

We can take this one point at a time.

The rest of your post is all assumptions about a girl you don't even know and generalizations of everyone based on those assumptions about one girl.

You say that your choices are to not talk to her at all vs pretend to be interested in her to get into her pants. This just screams that you are only interested in sex.

With THIS GIRL. At THIS TIME.

Why is it so hard for you to get, Iqqi? I don't KNOW her. What else am I supposed to be interested in?

I don't KNOW anything about THIS GIRL, and the way in which she has approached me has told me that she's lame/boring/simple-minded. That may be a "generalization" or "assumption", but I've seen it enough times before that I can look at the pattern that's occurring and draw a conclusion. That's what smart people do...they don't do the same thing over and over again expecting different results.

However, she's very attractive physically, and seems very interested in getting to know me, especially what I look like without a shirt on. So I figure I will give her the benefit of the doubt because of a mutual physical attraction, and maybe, JUST MAYBE, I'll discover something about her that makes her worth keeping beyond the physical sense.

But understand, the PHYSICAL is the ONLY thing that keeps me talking to her at this point. That is the only excuse I can find to still associate with her.

So yes, my two options are 1) to find a reason to still talk to her or 2) let her go on her merry way. And since she isn't really giving me a reason to hang out in any sense except her suggestive picture of her in her sexy halloween costume or in bed in her underwear, then YES, I will use sexual attraction as a reason to keep talking to her.

But before she can show me something else to be interested in (assuming there IS anything else with this one...again, prior experience has shown me that girls LIKE this rarely have much more to offer), she is immediately breaking the ONE connection she has to me...the physical one.

I guess you think the "chivalrous" and "mature" thing to do would be to tough it out anyway with a girl who is 1) boring the hell out of me and 2) has demonstrated a prudish streak, on the odd and unlikely hope that we can find enough common ground to pull some "relationship" out of our arses.

Frankly...I'm not wasting my time on that sh*t. I've done that enough times to know I'm wasting it. I'd rather spend the time on something I ENJOY doing and wait for a girl who at least shows SOME promise beyond the physical.

Again, you ASSUME...maybe because you want to believe I'm some kind of "horndog" moreso than every other healthy man alive...that I'm like this with EVERY woman I talk to.

I didn't tell you about the redhead I'm talking to at the same time, with whom I haven't even MENTIONED sex or physical stuff. Why? Because she has a natural curiosity that interests me personality-wise and we share some common interests.

I didn't tell you about the other blonde, either, who is GENUINELY independent and seems to share some common perspectives with me, which I find rare. Might be meeting her this weekend. SHE lives across the bay from me and mentioned something about "staying the night" at my place if she comes to visit, and *I* am the one balking at that notion on a first date.

So you're something of a hypocrite, aren't you? You accuse me of pre-judging this girl and making assumptions about her from a small subset of interactions and things she revealed to me...yet you are doing the same thing about ME based on this occurrence that I've revealed to YOU.

What is it you WANT to believe about me so strongly that you feel the need to chase me in this thread and try to make me look the fool?

Like I said earlier, I think you want to empathize with this girl that I'm "shallow" because I'm the only guy who's going to be honest with you and tell you, "yeah, I DO think you're sexually attractive" instead of lying to you long enough to get into your pants.

Because if that's not true, then YOU may have filtered out some good guys as welll, along with all the bad ones, by taking such an objectionable stance to early physical interaction.

I'm not saying that's a BAD stance, if you want to "play it safe". As I said, you'll filter out a LOT more bad guys than good ones, but you're going to have to be willing to wait a bit longer for the good guy who CAN wait for you to show your "other traits". Assuming you have them.

*I* am willing to wait...as I've said before, I would rather be single than with the WRONG girl for the WRONG reasons.

I honestly could see you having a LOT in common with this girl...except that you're obviously a bit brighter/more clever. But for a social partner, I need more than just "debate team". I could honestly appreciate how smart and well-spoken you are and how, unlike a lot of these girls, you can piece together more than simple ideas.

The problem, Iqqi, is that if I considered dating you, you just don't seem like you'd be any FUN. And I'm not talking about just sex-fun, I'm talking about ANY-fun. I feel like you're the type of person that I'd have to constantly put up with you complaining and arguing about everything.

That's what I saw in this girl...that everything was just going to be arguing and complaining. Hell, she can't even manage a full natural smile in any of her pictures. Not a-one. And she was trying to use the physical aspect to "bait" me in, like so many girls before her, when she really had little interest in anything physical beyond giving it up as a "reward" for romancing her.

Not worth my time.

Just frustrating that I meet more of her than any other woman these days.

And that's why I keep venting the same frustrations...because I've chosen a path that means I won't be able to simply snatch up any old mate like most people in this world or even on this forum.

And I feel like this forum, as a place devoted to attracting women, is a place that would understand and sympathize. You being a woman, I don't expect that from you, and your viewpoint is refreshing. Thank you for that, at least.

Back to bed...I'm only up because work paged me, and I made the mistake of reading this post. You certainly know how to poke at my ego.

 

[sstype]

Maybe if you owned a helicopter and had a mansion on an island, but you aren't that intriguing, and not all women would go for that any ways... but you'd have more of a chance of having the direct sex you really want, without any other base but your wealth.

All of the negative conclusions that you are coming to are based on your own limitations here.

I agree with Iqqi here......unless you're extremely physically attractive, wealthy, or famous in some way, then you're going to deal with these sort of hangups on a constant basis.

Most, but not all, women reserve casual sex, one-night stands, and flings for the highest status males they can obtain. They don't care to mess around with average joes, unless its for marriage or a relationship. There are exceptions, of course, but generally you don't see NFL athletes, entertainers, and rockstars struggling to get different women to hook up with them right away. Whereas most average guys like you and me struggle to hold one chicks attention for longer than 5 minutes.

How women react to you sexually has nothing to do with her.....if you're not the kind of guy that brings out her inner sex kitten then you need to either step your game up and be better than 90% of guys out there or buy escorts if all you want is easy sex.

 

[DMSR76]

I really don't think people are fully understanding what squirrels is saying. It ain't about the sex. It's about the overall wackness of modern women and of modern society in general.

 

[Solomon]

Something that I've been wondering is what Squirrels brought up

Why is it that when you push for sex right away it makes you the bad guy? now a days every women is saying the same thing "I don't wanna do anything right away blah blah" but those women let the guy before me do "something right away" and now they expect me to wine&dine them

FUCC that

 

[Slickster]

"I'll show you mine if you show me yours."

Oh man Squirrels!

I know it probably just came out buddy but this just seems like such a corny line to me. Kind of along the lines of "If I told you you had a nice body would you hold it against me?" Sorry but it just seems like the kind of thing that would turn off any chick.

Maybe bugging her about being too sexual too soon or telling her you aren't that easy and she'll have to work to get to see that shirtless pic would've been WAY better. I know you know that though. Sometimes we say dumb things.

A good discussion between you and Iqqi going here though.

Squirrels I'm always preaching around here that guys shouldn't make ANY moves early on. Some people figure this gets you a free ticket into the friendzone but in my experience it is always quite the opposite.

When I was reading your responses to iqqi it made me think that maybe you should erase the sexuality from your interactions with women for a while. Whether you want to fcuk them or not just don't go there. Start interacting with women for the mere fun and enjoyment of it. Learn to enjoy your time with women without any expectations of it going anywhere sexual. I think you would learn a lot from doing this. Like you said smart people don't keep doing the same things and expect different results. A change like this may force you to learn some things about yourself.

If you are finding that the women you are meeting bore the hell out of you then just move on. Leave any thoughts of sex, etc completely out of it and find someone who actually interests you before you allow those thoughts back in.

I know you talk negatively about love and relationships sometimes and I "get it", but if you look past the labels and stigmas it really comes down to the fact that being alone sucks and having someone to share your life with can be a really nice thing. It doesn't need to be any more complicated than that. It's not necessary to be happy or content but it's just nice to have someone you connect with.

I continually read things from you (and other guys) about how you just can't seem to meet any woman who is worth your time or you find interesting. I can never understand it because I am constantly meeting new great and interesting women. In my world there just seems to be a never ending supply of cool chicks to get to know. Now am I living on a different planet than you? Or is it that we are viewing the same things from a different vantage? Of course I meet lousy, no good women too but they get exactly ZERO of my time or effort. There ARE great people everywhere! If you can't find them, you may be your own problem.

It seems like your views about women, love, relationships and your sexual expectations are all getting in the way of you making any real connections.

Is it time for a change even if it goes against what you conditioned to believe?

 

[zekko]

Start interacting with women for the mere fun and enjoyment of it. Learn to enjoy your time with women without any expectations of it going anywhere sexual.

I think a lot of guys here are missing that. It seems like it's either a girl to have sex with or a girl to have a relationship with, and there doesn't seem to be much in between. But this forum likes to teach that if a girl isn't giving you sex within the first couple meetings, she's not worth messing with. There's an implied message here that "women are only good for one thing".

I really could not disagree more. I talk to several women a day that I find quite interesting. I enjoy their feminine energy, their yin to my yang so to speak. A lot of them have good qualities, things to offer. I'm not saying I would date them necessarily, a lot of them are single mothers. I'm not looking for dates anyway, I have a girlfriend. But I enjoy my day to day interactions with them.

Sometimes it's nice to get to know girls, and enjoy their company and companionship. You don't need to be fvcking them or have a serious relationship with them necessarily. I enjoy women, there are a lot of guys on this forum who obviously don't. Women can be wonderful creatures. A lot of them can be hellish if you get into a relationship with them, but don't get into relationships with those, if you can help it.

 

[squirrels]

Oh man Squirrels!

I know it probably just came out buddy but this just seems like such a corny line to me. Kind of along the lines of "If I told you you had a nice body would you hold it against me?" Sorry but it just seems like the kind of thing that would turn off any chick.

Maybe...but corny humor is in my blood. If a girl can't at least live with dorky humor, then she's not my type anyway.

I have a pic on my PoF profile of me in a tight-fitting Under-Armor shirt, all the way down to my waist. You can see I'm not fat. There is NO reason for this girl to keep asking me for additional pics. Bottom line - she's an ass.

I hear what you're saying...I tried that angle for a little while. (the "no sex" angle) The cute ones never talked to me again. The "eh" ones wouldn't leave me alone. I'm still trying to figure it out...but maybe I need to go back to that.

But yeah...women just...bore me. Sexual attraction really IS the only thing that draws me in. It's rare I find a woman who's worth a crap to talk to as a PERSON, rather than as a WOMAN.

It's a shame...it really is. I get where Iqqi is coming from. I wish I COULD be interested in women for more than just the physical. But nine times out of 10, I find myself asking, "what else IS there? Is this it??"

I find these days I'd rather go out to a diner or restaurant with friends on a Friday or Saturday night than troll the clubs or set up a date with someone. I'd rather go climbing. Or sit at home with the X-box. Or even WORK.

Maybe I'm a-skeered. I can't tell. I just feel like...what's the POINT? The BEST I can hope to get from this girl is "laid", and it's gonna be a let-down when it's all over, and I'm going to have to sit there and cuddle with her or else risk hurting her feelings when I bail out.

Maybe I just need to work on finding the GOOD traits of people. It's just hard when there's so much BAD sh!t over-top of it in most cases.

 

[zekko]

Maybe I just need to work on finding the GOOD traits of people. It's just hard when there's so much BAD sh!t over-top of it in most cases.

Maybe your expectations are just too high.
But I really think this whole thing is related to the depression you've talked about.

 

[nismo-4]

I agree with Iqqi here......unless you're extremely physically attractive, wealthy, or famous in some way, then you're going to deal with these sort of hangups on a constant basis.

That's because women live in the present. If you're a working man trying to come up, a woman translates that as "I'm talking to an average joe." But the working man who made it, will easily beat the competition. If there are multiple working men who made it, the battle gets interesting. Women want the successful man now. Women want the man who made it in the present, not this future years later sh*t.

Most, but not all, women reserve casual sex, one-night stands, and flings for the highest status males they can obtain. They don't care to mess around with average joes, unless its for marriage or a relationship. There are exceptions, of course,

That's men who have to rely on luck and "Personality." Personality attracts women to the average joe when the stars are shaped a certain way or some sh*t. Usually once a year.

but generally you don't see NFL athletes, entertainers, and rockstars struggling to get different women to hook up with them right away. Whereas most average guys like you and me struggle to hold one chicks attention for longer than 5 minutes.

Here again, women live in the now. They will always choose the successful man who's successful in the present. If you aren't successful in the present and are average, you'll have to take what you can get and rely on luck.

How women react to you sexually has nothing to do with her.....if you're not the kind of guy that brings out her inner sex kitten then you need to either step your game up and be better than 90% of guys out there or buy escorts if all you want is easy sex.

10% of the guys do 90% of the f**king. If you aren't in the top 10%, you're in trouble. You've got an uphill climb. You better build your wealth and get plastic surgery if you need to. Escorts are quite pricey and even THAT DOES NOT guarantee sex! You know as well as me that in Atlanta, there are so many men who want to buy a woman's attention that women have even more choosing power! Now they have to choose you to PAY for them! Hookers are like that too! It's at a point where even ugly guys struggle with hookers! Even Grannies are harder to get!

Read betwee- God Damn!

 

[Slickster]

I think a lot of guys here are missing that. It seems like it's either a girl to have sex with or a girl to have a relationship with, and there doesn't seem to be much in between. But this forum likes to teach that if a girl isn't giving you sex within the first couple meetings, she's not worth messing with. There's an implied message here that "women are only good for one thing".

Exactly!

I've been preaching the "Don't make any moves early on" thing for a long time and I always get some negative reactions towards this theory. The common idea is that if you don't push the sex vibe early on then you end up in the friendzone. In my opinion, the friendzone thing happens when you are obviously hiding your sexual desires but continue to hang around anyway like a chump. You are stuck in chase mode and her pvssy is the prize. No wonder some guys get so frustrated. If you truly put that sexual agenda to the side your interactions with women become so different.

People always want what they can't have. It's human nature. So if you are cool, fun, charming guy who is good at building rapport, comfort and attraction but you don't make any sexual advances you really set yourself apart from almost every other guy out there. You leave her wondering why you didn't make any moves. It hurts her ego. She is drawn to you because you are a challenge. It seems so bloody obvious and easy!

Of course you need to be cool, fun, charming and good at building rapport FIRST but most guys around here prefer to put the cart before the horse. They lead with their d!cks and wonder why they aren't having any success.

 

[Slickster]

I hear what you're saying...I tried that angle for a little while. (the "no sex" angle) The cute ones never talked to me again. The "eh" ones wouldn't leave me alone. I'm still trying to figure it out...but maybe I need to go back to that.

But yeah...women just...bore me. Sexual attraction really IS the only thing that draws me in. It's rare I find a woman who's worth a crap to talk to as a PERSON, rather than as a WOMAN.

It's a shame...it really is. I get where Iqqi is coming from. I wish I COULD be interested in women for more than just the physical. But nine times out of 10, I find myself asking, "what else IS there? Is this it??"

I find these days I'd rather go out to a diner or restaurant with friends on a Friday or Saturday night than troll the clubs or set up a date with someone. I'd rather go climbing. Or sit at home with the X-box. Or even WORK.

Maybe I'm a-skeered. I can't tell. I just feel like...what's the POINT? The BEST I can hope to get from this girl is "laid", and it's gonna be a let-down when it's all over, and I'm going to have to sit there and cuddle with her or else risk hurting her feelings when I bail out.

Maybe I just need to work on finding the GOOD traits of people. It's just hard when there's so much BAD sh!t over-top of it in most cases.

Squirrels where do you meet the majority of women you date?

 

[Sue Madre]

Squirrels just needs to meet a hot foreign girl instead of dating these American sluts. Ofcourse he feels nothing for them. What do American women have to offer other than a bad attitude and a slutty past?